Qigong Association

Anyone got the scoop on the Healing Society/Dahn Institute? (ARCHIVE)

Qigong Association: Qigong: Other Qigong Questions: Healing Society/Dahn Institute: Anyone got the scoop on the Healing Society/Dahn Institute? (ARCHIVE)

By Anonymous on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 10:45 pm:

They are not the same.

By caleba76@yahoo.com on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 09:20 pm:

Try researching Juniper Tree Ceremony from Dahn.

By CLL on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 01:40 pm:

thank you, Mouse, i had found the Unification Church data. I'm doing reseach on posthumous religious ceremonies of all Faiths, interestingly the L.D.S. does a posthumous ceremony they refer to as "Baptism by proxy". I skimmed this board and surfed to newdahn, found where the Korean ex-master writer was told by ilchi lee to "find out how the Moonies raise money, and copy that..." I paraphrase; (he did not say Moonies, I don't believe.) Do you think that this is perhaps when Dahn adopted the ritual?
I will follow your leads now. Thanks and I would love to learn more about Dahn ritual if anybody has specifics. thanks in advance
Caterina Lorenzo-Lara
(CLL)

By Mouse on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 12:57 pm:

The ancestor liberation ceremony? I've seen a bit of chatter about it, but not many sources you could actually cite in an article. Googling...

Interesting. The first online hit (Wikipedia) and most other sites credit the ceremony to Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church ("the Moonies"). I can't find a Dahn Yoga-sponsored site that even mentions the ceremony. (Maybe one of the ex-masters who frequents this board knows what Dahn calls the ceremony in Korean? It might help with searching.)

Wikipedia sez:
"The Ancestor liberation ceremony (Haewonshik) of the Unification Church is intended to release the earthbound spirits of dead people from attachments in the physical world. Some of these spirits, according to the church, hang around or cling to the spiritual bodies of living people, causing them difficulties such as poor health or bad luck. After liberation, these spirits are escorted by angels to high realms of the spirit world, where they are invited to seminars on Unification Church teachings. After the seminar, the spirits are assigned to assist people on earth."

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestor_liberation_ceremony (Includes photo links and related topics). Unfortunately, I don't know exactly what this interpretation has in common with the Dahn Yoga version; I suspect the ceremony itself is very similar, but that the spirits' intended destination is different. (Does anyone else recall the comments in the NewDahn story about imitating the Unification Church?) Can anybody help us out?

The ancestor liberation ceremony and its cost IS mentioned briefly in several of the articles posted at Rick Ross's cult-watch site. See http://www.rickross.com/groups/dti.html
$20,000 is the amount cited in most of the articles, though some people have reported even higher amounts on this board. I imagine that something that grandiose would take place at their retreat in Arizona. But again, I don't know first-hand.

I found Body & Brain magazine online (http://www.bodynbrain.com/), but I can't find the article I had in mind. I SWEAR they published an article last year written by someone who had participated in a liberation ceremony, but it's not THERE. *grumble* Maybe it was a different publication... Still, the site might be helpful to your research.

You can also search this message board and see what others have said by pushing Ctrl + F and typing in a phrase.

Anyway, there are much better informants than me on this board, and I hope they speak up soon. But I hope SOME of this rambling is helpful. ;) Good luck, and let us know what you learn.

By CaterinaLorenzoLara on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 04:34 am:

Can anybody give me information on the purported "Ancestor Liberation Ceremony"?
I'm doing research. How much does it cost, what does it supposedly do, and where/how is it done?

C.L.L.

By D.B. on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 10:01 pm:

SAH, Well, I'm glad the N.G. is busy, FINALLY!! (That's all I'm going to say about that...)
Vis-a-vis the curses: Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists, and therein lies the Peace of God. So, no, I don't need any help, but thanks for asking!
Cheers!
D.B.

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 06:43 pm:

"People are "cursing" me" and I don't mean "potty mouth" either..".

Are you handling it o.k.? Do you need any support? The National Guard is busy at the moment. So try to hold on.
Love Light Always.

SAH a/k/a anon. 11:27

By D.B. on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 04:07 pm:

Cheers, Dears,
Petrice, how could anybody be pissed off; what you said is very healing and there are stages we "cult survivors" go through.

Oh wise anonymous, could you please pick a name?

Now, concerning stages, One doesn't go to a gunfight packing a knife. If I'm going to go to a gunfight, I will be carrying a gun. I hope you all know I'm speaking rhetorically here!!!!

My stage is to expose Dahn by any means necessary, and I know it's going to get nasty.

I've sent the pertinent links to all the people I was at Healer School with. My ears are burning.
People are "cursing" me, and I don't mean "potty mouth" either...

CAPS FOR EMPHASIS!! THE WORDS "DEATH" AND "BALONEY" DO NOT LOOK GOOD IN THE SAME SENTENCE, NOW DO THEY???

love you guys, hang in there!
D.B.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 11:27 am:

"I didn't get to read the article yet (been a bit busy) but I checked on-line today in the court system and it's on there. What's interesting is that the lawyer on the papers originally doesn't seem to be on the case now. They have brought in some big names"

Response from my New York fact checker about the case. Getting interesting!!!!

By Anonymous on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 10:36 am:

Petrice, I for one don't feel pissed off at you. Everyone processes their losses caused by dahn in their own way and often in stages, much like grieving.

For some who have been terribly injured by dahn over a period of years, anger and hostility can be part of their healing process and can lead to action that may help prevent others from experiencing great loss. What better way to heal than to help others not to walk into a trap?

By momma on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 07:56 am:

Petrice; welcome back. many of us have learned a lot from Dahn practice which we use every day.
wonderful sharing!!

By Anonymous on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 09:55 pm:

E-mail recieved thanks. Travel budget established, here come the frequent flier miles. Will get working on it soon.

A.N

By Petrice on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 09:05 am:

I had a very interesting dream the other night and thought about sharing with you all.

I actually have noticed lately that I am finally feeling totally free of emotion around dahnhak. This dream made me realize it. I just got one of those auto emails from dahn giving tips for the day type stuff and my first response was to delete it but I decided instead to just check it out. I use dahn stuff in my work every day and on myself. Not that it's Dahn stuff but just things I learned from dahn...

Anyway, in my dream, there was a lot of weird things going on like catching my jwjn and sbn stashing chocolate and exposing their addiction. Then there was this point where I was going to enter the last session of healer school and a korean guy turned me away at the door telling me I didn't have to attend and handed me a bunch of money as refund. Turned out it was only a few hundred. Then there was this point when I realized that the 2 people who were running the center when I was there, were so close and sweet with each other that I remember saying in my dream that those 2 should not be separated. Even tho in real life they already have been.

Then, there was this point when I realized that if Dahn were to seize to exist, more people would suffer. I woke up and pondered this dream for a while. I came to the conclusion that despite my personal beliefs about Dahns unethical practices, I believe that Dahn is helping a lot more people than they are harming them. I am not saying that I will ever go back. I still believe they are a cult and taking advantage of peoples vulnerablities and robbing them blind. But the good thing is, they are teaching them some of the most powerful self-healing practices on this planet and bringing a higher consciousness to many who don't have exposure to such philosophies like we do on every corner here where I live.

I realize this may be pissing some of you off. But I truly believe that everything exists for a reason and maybe Dahn exists to teach those of us who got involved to learn how to love and value ourselves enough to live a healthier life and get the bleep out of Dahn! Dahn represent both good and evil, and their practice taught me how to see that and mature in my thinking around things in life. I have always tended to think in black adn white terms, especially when I was really gung ho about something or the opposite. It was either all bad or all good. But there is no such thing, except for when we access the one Source.

Now that we see the evil in Dahn, I pray that we can all take the good from it and continue loving ourselves, nurturing our bodies, minds and souls and bless those who are still in it. Pray that they too can gain the strength, health and knowing to get out and move on, not with hate and anger in their hearts, but with gratitude for what Dahn gave us.

Now that I am not pissed off anymore, I can see the gifts so much more clearly and am so truly grateful. I no longer see Dahn as purley evil, but as a way of teaching us to worship nothing but the one and only source, and that resides in and around us. And for most of us, we need to get really angry and see red before we can get out and get through it.

I hope this is making sense to you all. I don't mean to interrupt wherever you are in your process. I just wanted to share mine and pray that you all find peace in your hearts around this eventually.

Much love and many blessings to you all
Petrice

By Greta wanabe on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 08:38 am:

To follow up on Mouse: The jury decision in a criminal case must be unanimous, where as in a civil case it only needs to be a majority. Civil cases are always about the MONEY. The official language of Dahn Yoga is MONEY.

At least now there is a public record and the charges must be answered.

Friends used to call me Glen Close in Jagged Edge.

By Anonymous on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 07:09 am:

To Andrew Nevis:
Please confirm that you received the document I sent. Don't worry about the email address I used. It was just tongue in cheek.
Thanks

By Anonymous on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 02:28 am:

A New York civil case is a disaster for any corporation trying to keep its reputation clean. All the major networks are located here, and if they follow a case, the news most likely will go national. What Dahn has the potential of is losing a 100 million potential members.
When this case begins to gear up, watch how Dahn pressures its employees for money. Really good lawyers don't come cheap.

By Dahnbuster on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 10:02 pm:

Well done, Mouse! Greta Van-So-Stern could not have explained it better. Are you sure you're not in Law School?
B.T.W., Did you notice the readership of the NYP?
Over 3 million people.;~}
I have to ask myself; had I known the allegations re: this 84 million dollar wrongful death lawsuit pending against Dahn Yoga, would I have joined? Would I have gone to Mago Gardens, e.g., "Sedona" [sic]?
The answer is NO.
Oh, interesting note: At Schmeiler School during orientation the Emcee lady, "Happy" let's call her, warned us, "If you do decide to go out hiking on your own, we've learned from experience, PLEASE stay away from the edge of the cliffs..." Everyone chuckled a little, like, "Duh!"
But now I realize that she was giving us the false impression, just in case we heard about a death there, that someone had slipped and fallen only by their own stupidity...
Then of course at the wrap up session, we are warned about "many negative energy people saying bad untrue things about Dahn on internet, don't look there..."
Now I'm even more determined to get the word out BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

The United States graciously allows many people to emigrate here, for which I am grateful.
however, what if certain immigrants are only here to brainwash us, take our money, break up our families and perhaps kill us? I think it's time to revisit their immigration status.
Cheers and hurray for the NYPOST!!!

Dahnbuster

By Mouse on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 08:22 pm:

*peeks out nervously*

Re: criminal charges and civil lawsuits, my limited understanding is that the proceedings differ in the entities involved and the standards of proof. Criminal prosecution is the government versus an individual (or a few) who has been charged with a crime. To convict, the prosecution has to prove the defendant guilty "beyond a shadow of a doubt". I don't know anything about the police case in Arizona, but I can imagine the difficulty of meeting that standard of proof. (But I really can't answer whether it's appropriate for the police to comment on it...)

Civil lawsuits (again, as I understand it) can be brought by/against corporations as well as individuals--note that in the Siverls lawsuit, the corporations as well as their proprietors were named. The standard of proof for a civil suit is lower than in criminal proceedings; there need only be a "preponderance of the evidence" that supports the charges for the defendant to be held liable.

So yes, a party can be acquitted (or not even be charged, I think?) in a criminal case, and subsequently be held liable in a civil case. Remember OJ Simpson? ;)

*ducks back under her rock*

By Anonymous on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 09:45 am:

Is it appropriate for AZ police to make such a projection?

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:37 am:

Chris Scanlon, a Manhattan lawyer for Mago Earth, one of the defendants, said, "The allegations of wrongful death are baloney." --Ny Post 09/04/05.

Does that mean her death was intentional? Was the test intentionally designed to kill someone? Or is dahn hiding from their responsibility to Julia and her family as well as the rest of the dahn members invloved?

I think this case will show the true side of dahn. The one we read about on Newdahn.com. The true immoral underbelly of dahn and ilchi lee.

Current members should seriously think about asking for refunds and finding a legitimate school.

By Anonymous on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:36 am:

Thanks, HNM, for posting that article. The more exposure the better.

Quote: "Arizona police say that the Siverls case is still open but that it's unlikely anyone will be charged."

What does it take?! Why is AZ not filing neglect charges in this case? I don't get it.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 11:45 pm:

The family doesn't need to have someone charged with a crime to win in civil court I hope.

I am sure there will be more stories from the NY post regarding the immoral activities of this group.

Current members be warned you are in a dangerous cult.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 11:35 pm:

There is an article in sundays New York Post.

www.nypost.com

HOLISTIC HORROR LAWSUIT
By DAVID HAFETZ and PHILIP RECCHIA

Julia Siverls was voracious, racking up advanced degrees in a dogged pursuit of knowledge that eventually led the Queensborough Community College education professor to a fateful spiritual retreat in the Arizona desert.

Dahnhak, a yoga and holistic-health group, offered to make her a master of its discipline if she completed one last test.

But that test cost Siverls, 41, her life, her family charges in an explosive $84 million lawsuit.

The suit calls Dahnhak a cult and alleges that it drugged Siverls, loaded her backpack with 40 pounds of rocks, gave her little food or water, then took her on a hike up Casner Mountain, near Sedona, Ariz.

She collapsed from dehydration and exhaustion in the desert heat but was forced her to go on and died halfway up the mountain on July 12, 2003, the suit says.

"It was total, total neglect," her sister, Veronica Siverls-Dunham, said. "This was a senseless death."

According to police reports obtained by The Post, an off-duty officer spotted the group on the mountain. The officer said Siverls was "hunched over" and had fallen.

An autopsy found the cause of death to be consistent with "acute heat stroke, dehydration and hyperthermia due to environmental exposure," the suit states.

Her family believes her meals at the retreat were laced with marijuana and methadone. A vegan, she never touched drugs, it says.

Siverls-Dunham, a high-school science teacher, called her sister, the youngest of 12 siblings, was the family's "pride and joy."

The suit says Dahnhak "lures" members with free yoga classes, then pressures them to attend pricey classes and retreats. Named as co-defendants are over a dozen allegedly related operations and Dahnhak's Korean leader, "Grand Master" Seung Huen Lee.

Chris Scanlon, a Manhattan lawyer for Mago Earth, one of the defendants, said, "The allegations of wrongful death are baloney."

A Dahnhak spokeswoman said neither Lee nor any other official could be reached for comment.

Seung Huen Lee, who also goes by the name Ilchi Lee, calls himself an "educational philosopher and world-peace leader" on a Web site that claims that Dahnhak teaches "the study of energy and how to use it to achieve mastery of mind and body and illumination of the spirit."

Dahnhak, based in Sedona, operates 50 centers in the U.S. and many more worldwide, according to the suit. There are at least 13 centers in New York, including locations on Sixth Avenue and a Dahn Yoga in Brooklyn Heights.

Arizona police say that the Siverls case is still open but that it's unlikely anyone will be charged.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 11:24 pm:

How many members hide their dahn activities from their family and friends?

By this I mean, do you tell people you clean the floors of the school or hand out flyers or even do bow training? How about the weird dances or screaming exercises or excessive pushups, or other activities which change every few weeks(this is done to keep you preoccupied). I am betting you don't because your family and friends have "low energy" or wouldn't understand. They may point out the folly in all of this. Could it be that you are simply embarassed to tell them what goes on in training sessions for which you pay alot of money?

The point I am trying to make is if dahn practice is so good, then why not tell all of your family and friends about the bowing and other activities and leave it open for discussion. The one exception I would make is the sexual abuse of the women masters as I think it is a private matter between the masters and the police.

Anyone who still doesn't believe that dahn yoga is bad is probably brainwashed already.

Do your research. dahn yoga is a dangerous cult.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 11:12 pm:

I found this on Rick Ross.com. It is a good read.

Are there any current members who can identify with what is in this article?

http://www.reallyweirdstuff.com/howtobesuccessfulcultleader.htm

By Anonymous on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 10:51 am:

To Andrew Nevis:
Just emailed you to your friend's email address listed below. Thanks.

By Anonymous on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 04:55 pm:

OMG! Just Googled "dahn hak"; 1st HIT:
http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000635.html
woooo!!!hoooo!!!!

By clockwork on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 10:04 am:

Hi Anon,

I am here still, I am here everyday even though you may not hear from me, I work everyday against Dahn and those who work for Dahn, everyday I do soomething big or small to give them a dig. I am always talking to those who may be suseptiable, especially now that the students are back in the big big college city I live in. Dahn really zones in on them big time!! I will always be working, you can trust me on that, if there are any breaks to report or big news I will let all of you know first! I am also praying for those on the Gulf Coast.

By Stillahealer on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 09:40 am:

yes, yes. The seeds have been planted and they will grow. Just because we are not posting everything we do (the surprise element) does not mean we are doing nothing.
Patience please

By Anonymous on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 09:30 am:

Let's do a role call here of active ex-members with a pulse. How many of you are using your experiences to do good? Who here is taking a stand and actually writing or telling reporters what happened?
Its okay to cry for a time, but you must eventually step beyond that and take action. Does anyone want another person to become a Dahndroid? Look outside your window, the person on the street could be your replacement in the Dahn, that's if you do nothing.
Do you want to match Lee's expectation of you? Or do you choose to show him what 100% of free will can do in showing the truth? It's your choice, but don't think too long, the person on the street is unknowningly counting on your decision.

By Andrew Nevis on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 11:02 pm:

The readership is only a few thousand, but it is growing with each issue. Also, the readers tend to be university students and artists, the kind Dahn wants. If all goes well fewer Koreans will have joined Dahn, all to the betterment of themselves and other Koreans.
We all want Koreans to live happy, cult free lives.
Heartening news, I have it on good authority a new article is coming out this month on Dahn.

By Dahnbuster on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 02:36 pm:

Let's make it easy for our mates, eh?
http://www.lifeinkorea.org/

One can comment the article!!
This is fantastic!!!
what's the readership of the tabloid, Andie?

Stillahealer, you make me stillathinkalot!
Speaking of temporary shelters, what about all these churches, churches, churches which are mostly vacant 6+1/2 days a week???
Do you know how many different sects or Denominations there are of Christianity?
20,000. TWENTY THOUSAND. Interesting, huh?

I'm going to go through my closet and find donations for the victims today. I believe the Red Cross will take them. It's not much, but Dahn got all my money, so it'll have to do!!!

Cheers!
Dahnbuster

By Anonymous on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 02:00 pm:

Seems like Male Masters hitting on or making out with members is common. sick.

By Andrew Nevis on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 03:26 am:

Want some more reading matter? Check out www.lifeinkorea.org See what Koreans and foreigners are reading in bilingual print about Dahn.

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 06:50 pm:

Maybe Dahn Centers in Texas could be used as shelters for the many victims on their way from Louisiana to the Astrodome.That would be real Healing Society in Action.

Maybe we could all come together for this event.

I know I am a dreamer.

By D.B. on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 06:40 pm:

Newsflash!
Re: Hurricane Katrina:
Over 1000 Dahn Yoga personnel, healers and Y.E.H.A. Volunteers, headed personally by Grand Master Ilchi Lee, are on their way to now underwater New Orleans, bringing necessary food, fresh water and medical supplies to the tens of thousands of destitute homeless Earth Humans...

Dahnbuster!

;~\/
(P.S...NOT!!!!!)

By fresh-ex on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 12:27 pm:

here

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 08:23 am:

thought my computer locked up.
here, here,

By don jon on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 07:58 am:

where is everybody?

By clockwork on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 07:55 am:

I am praying for all of you who were in the path of Hurricane Katrina.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 12:33 pm:

Dahn Center
Yahoo Map
3321 Westpark
Houston, TX 77005

The Better Business Bureau reports on members and non-members. Membership in the BBB is voluntary. Members must meet and maintain BBB standards. If a company is a member of the BBB, it is stated in this report.

Phone Number: 713-664-3246
Fax Number: 713-664-3245
Membership Status: no
Type of Business: Yoga Instruction

CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unresolved complaint(s).

When evaluating complaint information, please consider the company's size and volume of business. The number of complaints filed against the company may not be as important as the type of complaints and how the company handled them.

Closed Complaints
Number of complaints processed by the BBB since the firm's BBB file was opened in September of 2004: 2
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 12 months: 2

Complaints Concerned
Refund or Exchange Issues: 1
Outcome of the complaint -
Unresolved: 1

Customer Service Issues: 1
Outcome of the complaint -
Company made good faith effort to Resolve: 1

REPORT DATE: 08/29/2005

COPYRIGHT DATE: 2005 BBB of Metropolitan Houston

The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.

STANDARD DISCLAIMER

As a matter of policy, the Better Business Bureau does not endorse any product

By Andrew Nevis on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 06:25 am:

Fresh-ex, the advice given here on writing is well founded. Papers like the human interest side, tell your story with facts woven in to support what's being told. This way Dahn can't dismiss you as just a disgruntled ex-member.
Now go get writing
To the person who asked for an e-mail address, here's a friend's address - flaming4u2@yahoo.com

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 08:21 pm:

I forwarded the newspaper articles to the
Metro editor of the local newspaper with a
note stating there are eight centers in our
area and it might be of interest locally.
If you wish to remain anonymous, it is my understanding
that the newspaper will not use your name with-
out permission. I have not heard back from them
yet, but still hoping.

By Click!Click! on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 04:53 pm:

Dear Fresh-Ex,

I would highly recommend a "just the facts, Ma'am.." approach.
Focus on the FOUR articles which are in newsprint, (3 N.Y., 1 TORONTO). Newsprint carries TONS more weight with any reporter than a message board or a website like NEWDAHN. Why? Because THAT'S THEIR MEDIUM!
Can you get your hands on complaints to the B.B.B. NATIONWIDE? How about reports to each State's A.G.? Don't forget they're in Canada and Mexico, also! NAFTA's gotta be good for something, here...

Whatever you do, you DO NOT want to come off as a disgruntled ex-employee or a scorned woman, know what I mean? Not that you do! But that 'flavor' is what will discredit us all if we are not careful...

NEWDAHN is great and the Surprise letter and Jiha Kim's press-conference are very valuable tools.
However, the letter is just too long, she's spilling her guts and reminiscing and cartharzing and there's no way a Reporter is going to read that whole letter, in my opinion. Also there's some stuff posted there that's just non-applicable, like the poem "annabel Lee" and "the nun's prayer" Great Stuff! But too off-topic.

Remember Jiha Kim is world-renowned poet, (although in my ignorance i'd never heard of him) if only we could get that press conference in PRINT, it would be priceless.

Lots of stuff in print in KOREAN, B.T.W.
Andie Nevis has connections in Korea, maybe he can help you there.

Like I said, this is just my opinion, and you asked for feedback. I've been told I THINK like a reporter, was that a compliment or a put-down? hehe.

Good! Luck!
Dahnbuster

p.s. healer school at mago gardens accomadations:
they have little motel rooms, not bad, three and four to a room, though. One full Murphey bed, 2 twin beds in my room. The little motel rooms connected together are old and have been there since Lester Levenson founded the "Sedona Method" resort there, in the 50's-60's, I think. They are in the process of building more motel room as we speak. They have every intention of herding 10,000,000 cattle, er-people through there by 2010-2012. Feel free to use anything on my site that can be of service, I've copied and pasted the entire W.W.W here:
http://groups.myspace.com/DAHNBUSTERS
and here:
http://blog.myspace.com/dahn_busters

Cheers!

By Stillahealer on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 04:18 pm:

One way would be to write and op-ed piece and send to the editor of your local paper. Many times these are picked up by other papers across the country.

Another idea may be to write a short personal story with details about yourself; why you were attracted to Dahn Yoga, what dissapointed you and how you are overcoming the loss of the Vision, Dream etc.

Gets back to Who
What
When
Where
Why.

You are a wonderful writer; reporters like you to do the work for them; then they only have to fact check.

Good luck; writing is healing!!!
Love, Light and Keep the Faith.

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 04:14 pm:

Andrew Nevis, can you post you email address? Will send you something. You can just post a temporary throwaway address in case you are worried of being harassed by Dahnheads.

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 01:56 pm:

http://homepage.smc.edu/gonzalez_john/Kin%20PE%2058A/Course%20Syllabus%20Spring%202005.pdf

well, this is interesting! It seems as though they are teaching dahn-hak at S.M.C. for P.E. credits.

I wonder if the Professor knows everything he needs to know about Dahn? Hmmmm.

I wonder if the Dean of S.M.C. knows about the
"Journal" articles and the "Toronto" article?

I wonder if the Dean knows about the wrongful death lawsuit?

You know, we just Assume that people in high positions do their homework. But they're so busy! Sometimes they need a little help, n'est-ce pas?

http://www.smc.edu/

By fresh-ex on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 11:17 am:

also, i am still trying to figure out how to approach a reporter about this without sounding like a nutbar. i could really use some guidance. i am really serious about doing this.

By fresh-ex on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 11:12 am:

anon 2:30am- hey, thanks alot for that link! i have always been curious to see the original work before lee had it copied. the interest in the brain was a big draw for me when i first crossed paths with dahn.
DB- thanks for pointing out that the dahn healing center is not in sedona. i knew that but i just got used to saying it (when masters repeated "you must go to sedona!" over and over like a broken record). your clarity is much appreciated!
does anyone care to share their experiences at healer school or YEHA? are the tube-like tents the accomodations?
Andrew, your the inspiration. yu da man!

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 05:50 am:

Mago Cafe is a coffee shop in Sedona. This is also one of many Dahn's businesses.

By Andrew Nevis on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 04:26 am:

Anony, the similiarities of the color is why Alison Bourne took Dahn to court. Check out Rick Ross for the details. Dahn's `ethical' creative brains were so powered down, that they resorted to stealing.

Spent the day checking on Dahn records, and was hoping people here can tell me about the people on the corporate records. Do they get any perks, benefits from being on listed as company officers?

1. Ju Eun Shin or J Eun Shin
2. Joung Han Lee
3. Ji Young Kong
4. Joung Won Lee
5. Hyun Jung Kim
6. Ki Dang Nam
7. Jong Geun Han
8. Kyung Jin Park
9. Quan Tae Kim or Quantae Kim
10. Seung Won Ryu
11. Ji Young Oh
12. Hye Rin Moon
13. Sung Wuk Lee

Would be enlightening to have more background on these servants of Dahn.

Has anyone heard anything about the two company names below:

1. Mago Cafe
2. Dahnjon Ventures - pending - filed - 8/16/05

Looked at your work Dahnbuster, excellent! Your helping with newdahn, rickross, selectsmart, Shawn Cohen, Fresh-ex, Healernomore, clockwork and other ex-members to make 2005 a truly horrible year for Dahn.

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 02:30 am:

Jay Kinney, Gnosis, Winter 1999

http://www.humanityinunity.org/HIU/Teaching-Practice/DailyPractice/BrainIllumination/index.cfm
sound familiar?
brain illumination vs brain respiration?
When did B.R. come out?
We may have another case of twims a la the Alison bourne's colour chart.
Just wondering, it could be a coincidence.

By TheWorldsDahnbustingCommunity on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 03:03 pm:

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!
the old "change the name of the Company when the Publicity gets bad" routine....
(Why didn't Enron think of that, b.t.w.?)
Dang it! I've been playing the click-click game all day! 1003 times, to be exact!
Shall make note to change strategy forthwith!
thanks for the info!
Dahnbuster

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 01:41 pm:

Regarding Google -
Probably that's why they changed their brand name to "Dahn Yoga". Their original name "Dahnhak" is hard to find in their new websites!

By Dahnbuster on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 10:21 am:

Good News, Everybody!
Do this: Google Search "Dahn-Hak"
Now, look at the 3rd hit down from the top.
It's Shawn Cohen's Journal article on the death of Dr. Julia Siverls.
How did that happen? Someone's working overtime?

Ill-Chi, aka Dahnny Boy, clearly just got too big for his britches. That's what almost instantaneous fame and fortune will do for an EARTH HUMAN. In other words, same thing could happen to you or me. It's the EGO that's always at the wheel.

We could pray, those of us that pray, for God to intervene in Dahnny Boy's life in such a way as he will SNAP! I believe he truly was enlightened at some point, probably when he was teaching the one guy Dahn-Hak in the city park for free. He lost his way, that's all. God can fix that. He works in mysterious ways, though...

Of course, that's just my opinion. I'm not trying to sound holier than thou. Yuck! I hate that; it's like when you ask someone how they're doing and they reply, "Blessed!" (sniff) Note: they always sniff afterwards, as if to accentuate the point that I'M BLESSED AND YOU'RE NOT!!!

I'm not as angry anymore. Anger is a killer. They are not going to kill me. End of story.

Cheers!
Dahnbuster

By Stillahealer on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 10:19 am:

Amen Dahnbuster.
You have such clarity of thought and expression.
Keep it going.
Cheers to you.

By Dahnbuster on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 09:24 am:

Cheers to all!

Fresh-ex, everyone, please note: Healer School @ Mago Gardens is NOT! I REPEAT NOT! IN SEDONA!!!!!

That is one of the many, many "misrepresentations of the truth" we are told in Dahn=Hak.

"You are so special, you are so Spiritual, you have great Chungikuin, you have great Chungimein, you MUST GO TO HEALER SCHOOL IN SEDONA."

Sedona is a town, a Municipality if you will...
http://www.visitsedona.com/

Mago Gardens is IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE IN THE HIGH ARIZONA DESERT!!!
You DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT EVEN SEE BELL ROCK Mountain from there!!!
It is at least 30 miles from Sedona, 15 bumpy miles from Cottonwood!
e.g. YOU AIN'T GOING NOWHERE unless you:

a)rented a car, which isn't likely since they PUSH the shuttle to Cottonwood thing so hard, or

b) want to wind up like Julia Siverls!

Please, please, please
do not "feed into" this lie anymore
by referring to Mago Gardens as "Sedona"

And yes I was there, I know what I'm talking about. Anybody else was there and wants to validate the TRUTH?
With my dying breath my last words shall be...
"Mago Gardens is not even NEAR Sedona!"

Sign me,
"No longer geographically impaired"
Dahnbuster

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 06:14 am:

http://www.newdahn.com/usa

Keep checking this site.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 06:03 am:

One more thing anon. 2:22 P.M>

If you knew ANYTHING about SEX ADDICKS OR SEXUAL ABUSE it has NOTHING TO DO WITH BEAUTY; IT IS ABOUT POWER AND CONTROL. From what has come to light from people close to Ilchi Lee and other Dahn Yoga insiders; he is a KNOWN Sex Addict.

And who are you to decide who is beautiful or not?? Perhaps Koreans have a different view of beauty than those in the West.
As a Dahn Yoga supporter it surprises me that you would make such a remark about a person. Not a very enlightened statement. Where is your acceptance of WE ARE ALL ONE, even those who do not agree with you or look different?

By fresh-ex on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 11:35 pm:

isn't that in a sense admitting that there really are alot of things going on behind the scenes in the dahn organization? if i was still a member this would concern me greatly. i certainly wouldn't be scrapping about it- i'd be asking more questions.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 10:04 pm:

"...Lee saying no to her advances"

Okay, I misread that. Still, it's no secret that he was arrested for lascivious behavior and was accused of sexual involvement with hundreds of female masters, while he was married too.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 08:54 pm:

"I met Myung Ju Chun or Pineflower as she was called. She was not attractive or young. Downright fugly."

That was MEAN!!!! you sexist pig.

"Her beef with the Dahn probably stems from Ilchi Lee saying no to her advances."

Ahh, so at least you admit the likelihood that he made sexual advances! What the fu...g is "Dr." Ilchi Lee, a married man, great "god" of all his little slave/masters doing making sexual advances to anyone under his employ? On the job, that would be called sexual harrassment. Give the circumstances where Lee established himself as "god," it's criminal for him to exploit his position making sexual advances.

"Not to mention the coup detat she tried to stage in the organization."

Is that what it's called, a "coup," when someone tries to make changes toward more humane treatment of employees/devotees?

By Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 03:47 pm:

"Caleb - mano a mano. But just another ilchi wannabe with a bipolar streak. I'm sure the pro-dahners will be chased right out of here. congrats. Why not just kill all the Koreans?"

Huh?! This makes no sense at all. Like a bunch of words just strung together.

By Momma on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 03:16 pm:

Anon. 2:24
It could be all of the above. It could be signs of an organization falling apart at the seems. Masters are exhausted and asked to do WHATEVER IT TAKES FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES.
Just keep an open mind like you were asked in Shim Sung. If you are reading this board you must have some reservations, or you are a hired hand to do so.

If you stay long enough you will see the truth, not the truth you will find here but the untruth you will find inside Dahn.

Love, Light Always.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 02:29 pm:

Caleb - mano a mano. But just another ilchi wannabe with a bipolar streak.

I'm sure the pro-dahners will be chased right out of here. congrats.

Why not just kill all the Koreans?

By Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 02:24 pm:

One minute its celibacy, then the next its sex crazed masters. Make up your minds psychos.

We've all had our crushes on our masters. Just because they don't have sex with us doesn't mean they are totally celibate or complete whores.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 02:22 pm:

Please. I met Myung Ju Chun or Pineflower as she was called. She was not attractive or young. Downright fugly. Her beef with the Dahn probably stems from Ilchi Lee saying no to her advances. Not to mention the coup detat she tried to stage in the organization.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 11:54 am:

I don't think we should chase any pro-dahners out of here with harsh criticism. They are YOU, before you saw the truth. They need help. For some reason I didn't find his post to be "angry." I just see a true believer there.

The cult warning lights are flashing and sirens are going off all around us; the signs can't be missed...that is, unless you are vulnerable, like maybe someone with depression, arthritis, parasites, taking a ridiculous amount of medication, and much in need of loving emotional support and regular exercise. Grateful inevitably will experience a very rude awakening about dahn, and may fall much harder even than some people here.

By FunFriday on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 10:27 am:

How wrong one can be

About Ilchi Lee

I thought it was his Ego

Instead it was his Libido

That brought him crashing down

One more time.

Can we guess what date

It will be.

The fall of Ilchi Lee

He couldn’t see it coming

Too wrapped up in his own desires

Killing all the messengers

Can they all be wrong?

Who will fall with him?

Or will they go a scurrying

Out in the real world.

How scary that will be

For Ilch Lee

Who will they bow to

Who will they pray to

Who will they march with

Who will they dance with.

Have they saved enough
Chun Ji In.

You know he owns it.
He created it
Even the

Chun Bu Kuen

Signs his name to it

On stone no less.

That and everything else
God every created.
He did it all with his finger

Pointing to the ONE

Someday he will see

How wrong he can be

Ilchi Lee

By Stillahealer on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 09:33 am:

Thank you anon. 7:43am.
Good news about Jason. He must have been bored out his mind, interpreting all that "stuff". Jason, you are a true professional and I wish you the best in your new life.
You could write a wonderful book.
Best wishes and much happiness.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 07:43 am:

The Korean NEWDAHN has the post that Jason (I don't know what his last name was), Ilchi Lee's interpreter and ghostwriter for many years, quit over a year ago but they were keeping his intranet ID alive in order to make other masters think that he was still working for Dahn. How lame is that? It would be interesting to find out what he realized that made him leave, although my old master told me that Jason wasn't a real Dahn master but just a hired help. He probably got sick and tired of all the lies that he saw as he got higher in the hierarchy.

Also, they posted that Kang Ki Young, an old time Dahn master in Korea who was at one time the head manager of all Dahn business in Korea also quit a few months ago and is now running a Kendo dojo. Since his sister in law is a heavy weight Dahn master in Korea, their relationship is slightly uncomfortable, to say the least.

By caleba76 on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 07:31 am:

Well put HNM and Andrew Nevis, Clockwork, and Fresh-Ex.

By clockwork on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 04:47 am:

Grateful you are a riot!! If I did believe in healers I would not want you as a healer you are one angry, bitter, negetive healer. You must be terrible at what you do!! I have to say though your post was very entertaining, my pals and I read it over a few times and were literally rolling around laughing, thanks for the laughs! Anyway we have heard your whole speal so many times on this board "Catholics are a cult, Jews are a cult.....blah blah blah" that has been said so many times. It is such a boreing argument, churches are free and anyone can go whenever they want you don't have to pay thousands to get throught the door, I don't even know why I would argue with a person like you. I will never take anything you say seriously and you can never hurt me or change my beliefs on Dahn, if anything you solidify my distrust of Dahn, I am sure everyone on this board agrees, also we can whine and complain when we want and how we want, I will always spread the word about the evils of Dahn, nobody like you will ever change that you will only make me work harder at it and also give me and my pals a few hearty laughs! Thanks!!
CLOCKWORK

By fresh-ex on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 01:45 am:

boy, that is one angry healer...
excuse me while i wipe the spittle off my screen!
grateful, you still haven't revealed your name, address and phone number. at least caleb had the guts.
good work, Andrew. i bet the answer to your question will be that lee needs the land for his healing community. i saw pictures of sedona. lovely troughs they have people brushing their teeth in. i never went but alot of my friends did.
(my mother called lee the 45th reincarnation of ding-dong. i thought it was pretty funny!)
Andrew and Stilla- thankyou for taking the time to respond to grateful. i hope that grateful keeps reading, especially back on the board, and going to newdahn.com.

By Andrew Nevis on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 12:52 am:

Grateful, I took your push to double check the records. Maybe Lee had turned a new leaf and was actually concerned about the spiritual? Nope, Lee hasn't changed, but has accelerated his desire to be a feudal lord with land.

Yavapai land records August 25th, 2005

Seung Heun Lee

Property number acres land value 2005
301-06-006 160.00 $46,000
301-09-002Z 159.18 $47,000
301-09-002M 109.23 $45,000
301-10-217 40.14 $24,000
301-17-0017 160.00 $36,000
301-17-0049 61.51 $465 bargain
404-03-105H 23.53 $11,461
405-33-174 .17 $65,000
405-33-175 .17 $65,000

What you see is Lee is taking official ownership of property owned by Br Research Institute and adding a few new properties. Actions here do speak louder than words.

Why does Lee need over 700 acres of land?

On your defending Dahn, there are none so blind, as them who do not wish to see. I pray that changes, there is nothing worse than a life wasted on futility.

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:28 pm:

Grateful. They got you real good. You are a dahndroid. You say what they have programmed you to say. Do you have any thoughts of your own?

You are playing their game of victim bashing like a pro. Please read your post and tell me you don't sound like a real cult apologist. The people on this board are not whining. They are pointing out how dahn yoga takes advantage and abuses its members, masters included. Everyone need to be warned of this dangerous group.

When someone decides to be a master it is because the programming of all those previous courses has been successful. If you have read www.newdahn.com you would have seen a partial list of masters who are no longer with dahn. I wonder why this is so? Could it be bad energy or did they no longer believe in a noble cause? I used to believe in a noble cause until I saw them for what they are. The masters will take advantage of you every chance they get. They will dominate your time and try to break apart your family. They will drain your finances as quickly as possible. Why? Because lee demands it.

It has been written that lee and others in the upper echelon of dahn have sexually abused the female masters. lee has also been responsible for acts of violence against dissenters. This is what you are defending.

How about Julia Siverls? Do you think she was willing to give up her life for a phony cause? I don't think so. For you to say or insinuate it is her fault for being weak is absolutely ludicrous. She went on the masters training with the same intention as everyone else who does this training, to help society. The only problem which was uncovered was the fact that dahn does not care about it members. They are disposable. If they cared, Julia would be alive today. Instead, she died because dahn masters are taught to sacrifice their lives for a false god. They left her and the others without sufficient supplies in the desert heat. They were very negligent in their care of those masters in training. I am positive if the masters in training were told what was in store for them they would have refused to go on the hike.

Dedication to a false god. This is the basis of dahn yoga. Have you ever done bow training with lee's picture in front of the room? This is bowing that is specifically done for lee as if he were there. The real brainwashed masters believe he is their god. The other masters who don't believe have already left.

The training you do is designed to make you very susceptible to suggestion. This is how dahn masters get you to do so many things for free. This is how they get you to fly to Sedona so many times. Would you fly on your own dime if your company asked you too? I think not.

Before you make another misguided statement do yourself a favor and research some of the websites posted here. Doing so will give you real enlightenmenment. Dahn is a cult.

By Grateful on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:34 pm:

I'm sorry to read that all of you feel so "wounded" by Dahnhak. The choice was yours, always was. It's too bad you were shown something of yourself you did not like and chose not to change. I've been in Dahn for a year now and it's everything I've been looking for.
If you only came for the classes and exercise 3x a week it was no more than the local workout center classes. The stretching and flexibility would do nothing to your mind.
Certainly, initial awakening was no more than a bit of philosophy mixed with a few challenging exercises. If you hit yourself too hard during the meridian exercises you have no one to blame but yourself. They are your own hands after all.

You get what you put into the classes. If you chose to go all the way to Sedona for healer training, that too was your choice.

I wanted more and have been searching for more than 20 yrs. When I found Dahnhak, I was hurting from arthritis, depression, parasites from a tick, insomnia and migraines. Within 3 wks.I was feeling better. My joint pain was almost completely gone by 6mos.later and I went from 12 medications to 3 within a year. I no longer suffer from depression, insomnia, migraines or any of the above mentioned ailments. I encountered none of the mind control stuff that was mentioned in the postings previously mentioned.

What I did experience was caring guidance on how to take responsibility for my own health by making my body strong.

All of the practices used are based on ancient traditions. It would do you well to do some real research about the origins of these methods. I think you would find that Ilchi Lee did nothing but uncover them and make them available.
The people that choose to become masters, get paid little or nothing for it do so because they believe they are helping to heal the world. A noble cause. All noble causes are done out of love and those that give get little in return.
Look at people who volunteer in soup kitchens. They get nothing in return. It costs them precious time.
Every thing is a cult. Have you looked up the definition of "cult"? Catholicism and Christianity as well as Judaism, Hinduism, Islam.... they are all "cults".

I consciously chose to go to Healer school so that I could learn to give back healing that I personally received. I may not work at a center even though my tuition was subsidized by members who believed that I would benefit from the experience. I know I will use the practices learned to help heal those in need... my family, and my friends.
I do not plan to "sell" Dahnhak. Nor will I sell my worldly goods to go live at Mago Garden in "endless bliss".
I will go on with my life. I plan to live an authentic life not a life filled with petty concerns of how my ego was bruised by a silly remark or a brushing of someones leg against mine. Yes, I was hugged by the masters at Healers School, but I was also hugged by my classmates and even come onto by a confused classmate of the same gender.

I was given a lot to think about... how I look at my life from a victim's point of view and if I want it to change I have to do it... No pain, no Gain. No Action, no Creation. If you've been to healer School you will remember this too.
If the masters made you mad, they did thier job. They made you look at yourself and told you to take reponsibilty for yourself. We usually don't want to hear this. We want someone to take all our pain away for us.

Just remember.... It's all a choice. Even your response. Or lack thereof. I wish you all peace, health and happiness.
A grateful Healer

By Andrew Nevis on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:30 pm:

Side splitter, fearsome me. I have told people around the world, Dahn is a cult. This has always been based on the facts, no bogeymen.
I can honestly call Lee, a shit, because his activities make him one. He can redeem his reputation by making a public confession, but I don't expect that any time soon. Dahn defenders do appear afraid of the truth, as it their organization does stink to high heavens.
Prove me a liar on Dahn, and I'll apologize, but having been there and read the facts, I don't expect to apologize ever.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 08:53 pm:

Thank you Caleb! You're so cool!

anon 10:54

By caleba76 on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 08:32 pm:

Wow at work all day and look what has happened.

First off I have removed what comments I can remember posting. I used to post fairly often on different dahn boards so it's difficult to remember what I did when. Secondly others have replied to my posts which I can't remove so alot of times my original post still remains. on the reply.

Now about this

"What a bunch of whiners on this board. Anon Thursday August 25, 2:19 pm."

I for one have always posted with my name and email address. Mostly because I don't fear. Most people that get involved in cults or cult-like oranizations are not weak minded. They just want to believe in something bigger than themselves.

From what I have seen most of the people on this board are really only mad at the aggressive sales tactics and being mislead about what should have been just an exercise class and turned into something more. ie saving the world and lining Mr. Lee's pockets. Most of these people just want to be done with the organization and help other's to stay away.

You on the other hand seem awfully angry at the people on this board. And for you to suggest that no capitalism is allowed for more heightened or enlighted purposes is just wrong. No one is saying that here. But Mr. Lee isn't saying he is in it for the money either. It's the lying inside the dahn organisation that upset me. I wasn't there to line his pocket.

Is world peace a worthwhile goal. Yes. Do I believe Mr. Lee can get us there. Not a chance. That's one of the reason's I left.

So what about yourself. Do you want to come forward and share your personal info. I bet not. Here you go in case you were wondering about me.

Caleb Anderson
Kansas City, Mo
caleba76@yahoo.com
East Meadow and Great Neck New York Dahn Centers when I was active

Now your turn.

By fresh-ex on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 06:36 pm:

Stilla and Light30- you have restored my faith in this board
carry on

By Stillahealer on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 04:06 pm:

"If you really fear Dahn, wouldn't it be better to bait them and see if you receive nasty e-mails?" Anon: 2:19pm.
You go first. Tell us your story about how long you have been involved in Dahn Yoga and what your experience has been and as Fresh -ex indicated give us your contact information.
If you are honest I venture to guess you are a fairly new practioner. Maybe, just maybe if you are mature enough I may reveal my True Self; a Capatilist:, who has made some really bad investments. The money can be replaced, the loss of the dream will take longer.

Love to you.

By light30 on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 03:34 pm:

> What a bunch of whiners on this board. So, dahn might have misled you and charged you too much money. I'm crying for you.

Well. And what is your point? I am personally all for letting people vent, it is very therapeutic.

> You couldn't say "no" and now dahn must pay with tabloid tales about sex and drugs.

I actually found Denver's story beleivable.
I did real yoga before joining Dahn, so I am familar with chakras.
And I did wonder, how is it with all this attention on 2nd chakra, which is responsible for sexuality and sex appeal, Dahn masters are so apprently devoid of any attachments?

> You have constructed a bogeyman because you feel you were made a fool of or because Dahn didn't meet your preconceptions that no capitalism is allowed for more heightened or enlightened purposes.

When you work in Corporate America nobody tells you that you are doing it for the common good, to save humanity. You are quite plainly told that your sole purpose is to increase shareholder's value. That is the difference between the real capitalism and exploitation of well-meaning people.

> Some people used to cling to Dahn, now some cling to the anti-dahn. All the while missing the point that maybe they just don't need any of it.

May be not -)). But all people want to belong. And Dahn left a void, which needs to be filled. With time, it will be filled with other things, not just anti-dahn.

By fresh-ex on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 03:11 pm:

brave, brave anon... please enlighten us on your enlightened capitalism. i am curious as to what you mean

By fresh-ex on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 03:02 pm:

anon- are you not anonymous?
what is your name, address, and phone number?
you used a key dahn word- "preconception" which seems to excuse the very worst behaviour imaginable.
you are obviously posting here for one reason- you were assigned to do it, by dahn.
i think you are trying bait people, trying to upset the board. go right ahead. i feel sorry for you.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 02:19 pm:

What a bunch of whiners on this board. So, dahn might have misled you and charged you too much money. I'm crying for you. You are weak-minded and you transfer your self-loathing onto Dahn in order to avoid responsibility. You couldn't say "no" and now dahn must pay with tabloid tales about sex and drugs. And why is everybody anonymous on this board? If you really fear Dahn, wouldn't it be better to bait them and see if you receive nasty e-mails? And then use them as proof of your point. But you know in your heart they are not that kind of people.

You have constructed a bogeyman because you feel you were made a fool of or because Dahn didn't meet your preconceptions that no capitalism is allowed for more heightened or enlightened purposes. I fear Andrew Nevis more than any of the masters I have met. If you don't tow the anti-dahn line, the fanatics here are ready to jump down your throat and make you believe. Throbbing penis, my ass!

Some people used to cling to Dahn, now some cling to the anti-dahn. All the while missing the point that maybe they just don't need any of it.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:43 am:

"It is unfair of people who post as "anonymous" and then try to OUT others."

SAH, if you were talking to me, anon 10:54, when you said this, I don't understand.

Let Caleb answer for himself, why don't you. His messages on that dahn website are not a thing of the past, they are being used right now to promote YEHA. He can remove his messages there with a few clicks of his mouse.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:53 am:

Oops, about the Yoya.com threads on dahn, I posted two of the same threads. Here's the third one:

http://www.yoga.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19619&posts=4

By IWantMyMoneyBackToo! on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:14 am:

Hello, everyone,
Hi and Good for you, Denver!
We are trying to start a yahoo 360 group but very few people have posted their email addys.
It's too time-consuming to be on more than one or two message boards, I think. Life goes on, ya know?
Please keep checking back for more links!
My fellow Dahnbusters, it sure is getting lonesome over at My space Dahnbusters, hint hint.
I had a blog which listed all relavent links and it seems to have disappeared!
Not gonna get paranoid.
Does anybody have all the pertinent links in ONE PLACE???
(the name healernomore come to mind...)
hehe

Cheers to all!
Dahnbuster

By Denver on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 09:43 am:

I was told this morning by phone and in an email that I am getting my money back. He feels that I was harsh in my treatment towards him. He verified my address and said that he will send me a check. He really wanted me to go down to the Center... no way. I talked to one of my girlfriends at work about what happened and she isn't going to go back there again either.

This will likely conclude my messages here. Is there a community boad were everyone will visit and chat up any topic? Knowing everyones opinions on thinga as well as the wishes of good luck are greatly appreciated. Thanks to all.

By Stillahealer on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 07:04 am:

Anon; 10:54pm i.e. regarding taking back postive actions or statements we made on behalf of Dahn Yoga, my response is; "I meant it when I said it"

When I became more aware of how this organization worked, I could no longer support it.

It is unfair of people who post as "anonymous" and then try to OUT others.

By idea on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 06:23 am:

If anyone from the www.newdahn.com/usa site is here, i have an idea that may be useful to those of us in the U.S.

How about posting information about the departure of masters who worked in the U.S.?

It would be helpful to post their real name as well the Anglo names or other names used while here.
Thank You.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 01:04 am:

"Or even worse is someone here trying to get them at all cost?"
"Short answer: Does it matter?"

Uh, yeah, it matters. No one should stoop to that level of deception to "get" anyone. Let the truth and the facts about dahn speak for themselves.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 12:15 am:

A couple of people could use some firthand information here, if you want to help:

http://www.yoga.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19615&posts=9

http://www.yoga.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19615&posts=8

http://www.yoga.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=19604&posts=5

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 12:14 am:

>For the first time ever, college students can earn college credit for Dahn practice. John Gonzalez, a healer from Olympic Dahn Center in Los Angeles has created a Dahn class at Santa Monica College, CA, where he works as an administrator. The class meets twice a week for 120 minutes, and earns one unit of transferable college credit. The class includes Do-in exercises, breathing, and Yeon-dahn exercises.
Students report improved flexibility, a decrease in health problems, enhanced concentration in their studies, and a more positive outlook on life. Staff members may also participate, like Emerita Felix, a secretary at the college. Suffering from arthritis, the class has helped her to avoid surgery and to become more active with her grandchildren. She especially praises the instructor, whom she describes as “very patient and gentle.” She says, “He sends out a light and peace to everyone.”

In order to establish the class, John simply presented his Advanced Dahn Healing course certificate to the chairperson of the Kinesiology and Dance Department, who welcomed him as an instructor. Through the class, John says he has become more confident in his teaching, and has learned to connect and adjust to the physical condition of the class. In addition, he has connected to his direction in life. He says, “Helping others reach and eventually maintain physical and emotional well-being is what I want to continue to do.”

body & brain Magazine<

Thanks for the link to body and brain Anon 10:54.

I browsed through the site and was quite shocked at how deep this cult will get into mainstream society. I know they were trying to recruit the children of members but it seems they have infiltrated college campuses.Can you imagine a nation of mindless dahndroids? This healer is so proud of his accomplishment. I wonder how he will feel when he wakes up and sees how many people he has hurt by introducing them to dahn practice.

The current members need to ask themselves why there is such a high turnover of members. When they do this simple exercise they should ignore the obvious reasons given by the masters such as bad energy or not ready to grow,etc.

When they do this hopefully they will see dahn yoga for what it truly is, a dangerous cult.

Is it possible to send the college information regarding this cult? Is there a national registry that colleges use to do background checks on groups that are allowed to teach on campuses? We need to let colleges know of the dangers of dahn yoga.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:54 pm:

Caleb, have you considered removing the praiseful messages you had posted on dahn's yeha body and brain website before you saw what they were really about?

http://www.bodynbrain.org/board/messageboard_view.asp?id=48&cpage=1&sel_key=&skey=

By fresh-ex on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 08:08 pm:

Friend, my advice to you would be to be honest with your friend about how you are feeling about their involvement with this cult. i think honesty is always the best route. after i quit, i had plenty of friends who said "well, actually, i thought it was kind of cultish from the start". and i thought, well, why didn't you say something???!!
sit down with them and show them the info yourself. they may not do the research on their own beyond one or two web pages.they are trained to turn a blind eye to all the information available.
i don't know how old your friend is but i can tell you this: if was ten years younger i would have been chewed up and spit out by dahn. i would not have stood a chance. its not weakness or loneliness either (far from it!)- it was a genuine concern for the earth. that's how they got me, then the lies and the brainwashing began.
its very very serious, Friend. good luck and let us know how it goes.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 03:30 pm:

denver, you are a long way from Houston. Today i heard of a similar incident,male master kissing female student. he was hitting on her, just not as blatant as denver posted.
is this the NEWDAHNYOGA?

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 09:10 am:

Friend.
imo, accept where they are, accept the decision they have made, after you have given them the information, pray for them, laugh with them. Remind your friend that you are there for him/her any time, any place. I would not try to pressure them in any way. Give them your phone, email, tell them to call collect, offer a safe place to stay until they get back on their feet. Invite them to an event, the beach, birthday party. Promise not to mention any Dahn Yoga problems, you just love and miss them. Just accept, accept their decision. It is their life not yours, just like one would treat a grown kid.

By friend on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 08:43 am:

what can you do if you have a friend who is deeply involved and you can see how it is hurting them but they do not want to leave. they gave up everything, a good life to be part of a cult.
how do you help someone?

By Mouse on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 11:04 pm:

(DB--you're right, of course, and I don't mean to be a hypocrite. I just hope I'm a little bit wiser today than I was yesterday.)

By do wo me no mo on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 09:31 pm:

I know, it's like, just because he/she is calling herself Denver doesn't mean she is from the Denver Center. A little too obvious I would think for someone who is posting on a message board.\ don't you think?

By dahnbuster on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 08:35 pm:

Cheers, Everybody!

Go Here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Disappearance_of_the_Universe/

Velina, is this what you meant by a Yahoo group?
If so, I think it is a grand idea.

By the bye, why WOULD Denver make this crap up!!??!!)
For example,if I were to make up a tall-tale about Dahn (not necessary, the mere truth suffices!), well, I could tell a much TALLER tall-tale than Denver's!!

It's easy to say, "keep posting, everybody" but if you then publically rebuff something somebody posts, and then others pounce right on top of the "tackle" (you KNOW how that feels!) they're probably not going to keep posting. So who loses?
Everybody loses, because all input is valuable.
As an adult, I decide what to believe/disbelieve for myself. Everything is a perception of an illusion, anyway. Her perception of experience #XYZ was ______. She fills in her own blank, as we all do. And I don't recall Denver asking for anybody's input or feedback.
This Message Board is an open forum with no Moderator. Correct me if I am wrong?;~}

Dahnbuster
dahn_buster@yahoo.com
(underscore)

By caleba76 on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 07:50 pm:

Denver,
I can understand not wanting to go to the authorities, but if no one ever does nothing will ever change. And in effect you would just be letting these same things happen to another person.

It should be everyone's job to try and make sure that these kinds of practices get stopped. Maybe you alone going to the authorities will not change anything but if enough people do we will start to see results.

Once again good luck with it all and I wish you all the best.

By Denver on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 05:17 pm:

Yes, he is definately male. I won't be able to reach him by phone until 7pm. I wasn't planning to go into the Center and now I am leaning more towards the certified letter idea. I would rather him just say that he understands and that he will refund my money. If not, I will post a warning on a local posting site that will actually print my grievances in the newspaper. I would rather go with a peaceful resolution over an agressive and angry one.

I wanted to remain annonomous. Some of you seem like you may have too much time on your hands. Perhaps I used the name Denver since that is where I was born... perhaps? Or maybe the other is true. Either way, I made the initial post so that anyone in my situation would see that they weren't alone. I wanted everyones feedback as well. Oddly I never even thought of going to the authorities with it. I still don't know if I would go that far, however I wish for others to not be subject. I am an optimistic pessimistic person; and introverted extrovert. I understand the scrutiny, but please know that I have better things to do than to make things up. It doesn't matter to me wheter you believe me or not. That is not the point.

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 01:27 pm:

Mouse; you are a bright light.
Thanks.

By Mouse on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 01:25 pm:

"Do you think Dahn is posting these messages by Denver to prove how this board can not be believed?
Or even worse is someone here trying to get them at all cost?"

Short answer: Does it matter?
Longer answer: One questionable story this week would not invalidate all of the published articles, training manual excerpts, and matching personal stories that have been posted over the past year. IF the account under debate was posted falsely (and I'm not making that accusation), it may disrupt the board for a little while, but if you scroll past all that, the dirt's still here...as is the advice.

I think the regulars would know better than to try and "get" Dahn by telling tales here; we've discussed before how posting on an anonymous message board doesn't change much of anything. I hope this forum is and remains a good source of information about Dahn Yoga, but none of the stories, links, or other content matter UNLESS AND UNTIL individuals are inspired to take action "in real life". That means cancelling memberships, writing letters, warning others, and in extreme cases, filing lawsuits or police reports. So again, posting BS would disrupt the board a bit, but we'd get back on topic. As we do every time an argument erupts. ;)

Thanks, and keep posting.

By Mouse on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 01:22 pm:

By CLOCKWORK on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 11:31 am:

THIS ANON SEEMS SLIGHTLY ANGRY, WHY?

By fresh-ex on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 10:52 am:

anon- you never answered my questions.
dahn shuffles their masters around quicker than cards in a casino, particularly when there is trouble. he is probably already gone.
anyways, is that your center? are you an active member?

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 10:29 am:

Fresh ex.
are you aware of any male masters in Denver? if there are none, it could not have happened; right!!!

By fresh-ex on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 10:24 am:

anon 8:52- i sure hope you know what you are talking about. do you know this woman? do you go to her center? if i was that close, i'd be trying to help, not shove her off.
regarding dahn being victimized- people post here because their lives have been devastated by dahn. here we go again.
dahn is a dangerous cult.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 10:20 am:

Do you think Dahn is posting these messages by Denver to prove how this board can not be believed?

Or even worse is someone here trying to get them at all cost?

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 08:52 am:

One small problem with Denvers post. There are no male instructors there. Let's not make dahn the victim folks.

By caleba76 on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 08:31 am:

Denver,

Just wanted to say good luck as well. When you ask for your money back please be firm and stay in the common area's with other people. Hope everything goes well.

caleba76

By clockwork on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 07:12 am:

HI DENVER,

IT MUST BE HARD TO READ ALL OF THE POSTS THAT RESPONDED TO YOUR ORIGINAL POST. BUT I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU GO BACK, IT IS SO ODD WHEN YOU ARE PRESENTED WITH SEXUAL ADVANCES THAT YOU DON'T WANT, IT IS SO HARD TO STAND UP FOR YOURSELF, YOU FEEL AS THOUGH MAYBE YOU ARE TO BLAME OR MAYBE YOU IMAGINED IT. BUT IT IS SO COMPLICATED FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHEN THEY ARE NOT IN YOUR SHOES, I WISH YOU ALL OF THE LUCK AND STRENGTH. I HOPE YOU GET YOURSELF OUT ASAP! KEEP POSTING PLEASE.

By Denver on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 06:22 am:

Each and every one of you sound like wondeful people in your own way. This is the first moment that I have had a chance to go back to this post. I am floored by the the responses. The center master actually left a message for me on my phone last night. (I wasn't here) I got home too late to call him. I want to try the less evasive way to get my money back, as I haven't asked for it yet. I also agree with contacting the authorities. I happen to have phone numbers of two other female members. I want to find out if anything similar has happened to them. I have to run now. I plan to call the center tonight. I will write more this evening... should be around 7:30pm Denver time.

Thank you all for sharing your opinions.

~ Denver

By HealerNoMore on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 07:36 pm:

Love bombing techniques are when the masters tell you how special you are and hug you all the time as a way to show they love you. The hugs are very close and personal and not sexual. They pay extra attention to you. You get special training sessions and get to go to lunch or dinner with them. You start to think they actually do love you and that is when you are caught in the trap.

Once you are caught in the trap the money flows out of your pockets and there is no stopping it. You begin to do special favors for them because you love them and they "love" you. Members have donated money,cars,cell phones,school space,and lots of their time thinking that the love they felt was real. It is not. This is all an act to manipulate you into submission.

The masters are very good actors. There is a program from New Human School where the masters teach you to laugh and cry on command. This technique will be used against you at some point in time. If you are doing what they want they will laugh with you and say they "love" you. If you do not do what they want, they will cry if necessary and, you will do what they want because you will not want to see someone you love cry.

There are some other things I probably forgot, but you get the point.

Anything the masters tell you should be viewed with extreme suspicion because their only purpose is to be a slave (sexual or otherwise) to lee and to make him a very rich man.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 05:59 pm:

what are love bombing techniqes?

By HealerNoMore on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 02:30 pm:

>By Anonymous on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 01:35 pm:

Has anyone else had their master make a move on them?<

No. The love bombing techniques don't count.

I can only imagine the fall out the aggressive male master would cause within the region. I would guess he was transferred ASAP.

I wonder if there is a punishment he will receive beyond bow training and youn dan(holding postures for time)? Besides releasing the bad energy and being monitored very closely so it does not happen again.

By Mouse on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 01:56 pm:

Oh, looky, the octopus grew another arm! Regarding the Healing Family Campaign/World Healing Family Association: Why yes, they DO "sponsor" their own operations. (This is the first time I've actually looked it up; sorry if everybody already knows this. ;)

http://www.dahnyoga.com/dahn/partners.asp

The information given online sounds like standard Dahn Yoga programming, but it's reworded a bit to appeal to families instead of individuals. Human Technology, Earth Humans, Brain Respiration, etc. are mentioned throughout the site. Oh, and can't forget the videos that "prove" that the system works! Yech. The more you browse, the creepier it gets.

http://www.healingfamily.org
http://www.healingfamily.org/about.asp (Note the three goals stated at the bottom of the page--sound familiar?)

So... yeah. Cult indoctrination for the whole family! Clever marketing ploy, or response to bad PR? It was last updated in April, so no telling how much support this actually gets.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 01:35 pm:

Has anyone else had their master make a move on them?

By HealerNoMore on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 12:54 pm:

I just read something on the dahn website.

"Proud sponsor of the healing family campaign"

Is this a joke? They aren't healing any families, they are breaking them up. They encourage members to join a cause which lee invented to make himself rich. They send these members all over the country and the world to keep them at a good distance from their families and friends. They are required to work many, many hours per week with no real compensation.They are kept dependant on lee and dahn for everything and as we have seen on other postings they are required to buy lee's books with their own money.

How does lee justify this statement when he is in fact a sexual predator?

Can dahn be sued for false advertisement? I believe there will be a time very soon when lee and dahn are sued for sexual harassment and rape. This is America and after reading what happened at that large financial firm recently I think dahn will be next.

dahn yoga is a dangerous cult. lee is a sexual predator. Be Aware! Don't be their next victim.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 11:21 am:

Someone, a teacher, engages in unwanted sexual contact with you in a private room. He "ushers" YOU out, rather than you getting the hell out of there. You, at a later time, take his hand and allow him to lead you to that same private room to "show you" something. You lie down?! You wait there while he lies down next to you to press his "throbbing penis" against you?! You don't move away because suddenly you are aware that he is so strong?! You keep going back there?!

Excuse me, but does that sound credible?

Someone is a bit too overzealous in making up stories here. Isn't Dahn bad enough that people can tell their own real stories?!

By light30 on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 10:22 am:

> I have to ask why were you there on a Sunday? Were there classes being held? Most masters are working on training programs or some other dahn related work. They don't get Sundays off like normal people. They are slaves.

Our center is often open on Sundays, exactly for that reason. Masters don't get Sunday off, so they are working in the center.

By fresh-ex on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 09:56 am:

HealernoMore- yikes!! i agree about the kool-aid. those pictures were very disturbing. anyone who can talk people into buying his books so he doesn't have to worry about is sales is clever indeed. more importantly, the general public won't be reading it! nobody will question his writings if they are sitting in boxes in members houses. that's how he can publish lies and get away with it, like his false claims about addressing the UN. there is only one store in my town that carries one of his books and guess what? a member works at the store.
(sigh) i apologize if i have been defensive everyone. i just don't know where this board is going. it was a great source of support and information for me when i quit the organization. i spent a few minutes again reading way back onto the board this morning. it is different now.
my center was open pretty much everyday. if not for classes, for a meeting, a special event, open house, anything to keep people going everyday.
i don't think dahn is keeping an eye on their masters at all... i still don't think denver's story is far-fetched. but i guess if this is the general attitude i will be surprised to see her post here again.
breakdown

By HealerNoMore on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 08:07 am:

Regarding Denvers experience.

I have to ask why were you there on a Sunday? Were there classes being held? Most masters are working on training programs or some other dahn related work. They don't get Sundays off like normal people. They are slaves.

Please take the advice offered here and call the authorities. Write a letter to dahn headquarters as well. But not before the authorities are notified because they will transfer the master in question or try to manipulate you out of pressing charges.

If this master is so aggressive in his actions then he is very dangerous. Most masters or normal people would never do this.

There is plenty of sexual energy surrounding the masters. This is one of the ways use they control the members.

Good Luck!

By HealerNoMore on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 07:52 am:

There is a new update on www.newdahn.com/usa.(Pandora's Box)

The headbands are very disturbing. It kind of reminds me of a war movie with Kamikazi's.

It is also disturbing how lee gets his brainwashed masters to pay for his books out of their own pocket so that he can achieve his vision. (Remember, if you don't have a vision you can use his.) This is more of the brainwashing and manipulation that goes on in dahn yoga.(Remember it is more than just yoga.)

Anyone who thinks still thinks this is a yoga and fitness class is fooling themselves. It is time to wake up to the reality. I see this group future drinking alot of cool aid in the foreseeable future.

lee used to tell us that when he dies he will be cremated and have his ashes spread out under a Juniper tree in mago garden.(Juniper Tree Ceremony) His soul will then go to Bell Rock and wait for his masters to join him. he will wait there for 100 years and then take them to a special place. (HELL)

Why is anyone still joining this place with all of the new information which is available? I feel pity for the masters who are still there. They are trapped in what they believe is a worthy cause. The only worthy cause is to put lee in jail where he belongs.

The reason most masters are broke is because they must always use their own money first. Most times they will not get reimbursed for their expenses. lee will find a way to get every last penny. Would you work for a company where you must buy your own pencils,pens paper to do the job? I don't think so. This is strictly a cult thing forced on the workers of dahn yoga. It is illegal.

I think the Siverls family should ask for $200 miliion dollars for the death of their daughter Julia.

Please do your research regarding this dangerous group.

By light30 on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 07:46 am:

Denver's experience sounds true to me as well.
However, I am wondering where were the other masters at the time? Usually, there is no privacy in Dahn centers.

Anyway, Denver, don't even think about going back there. You'll just get yourself in more trouble. I can't beleive you went for 2 weeks after the first incident.

As for dating a master, masters at Dahn are not in a position to date or marry anybody, they are not free and they have nothing to offer.

The money is probably lost, unless you'll write a certified letter as someone suggested. You can also block this particular charge on your credit card by calling the credit card company and disputing it, then the credit company will deal with Dahn. Of course, you'll have to give them good reasons why this charge is not valid.

By do wo me no mo on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 07:33 am:

well, i guess it seems like a lot of people have been posting things that happened and it was only when it was something like this that people started to question and doubt her. as though things like this do not happen because they do. Look at the Catholic church scandal. I do not think it is a Dahn practice. It could happen in any organization if someone is a sexual predator but I am quite sure Dahn is not above it. Quite the opposite when the lunatics are running the asylum.

By caleba76 on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 07:25 am:

Love you Mouse

By Momma on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 05:51 am:

Aon: 7;21pm.

No trash talking please.

By Mouse on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 11:56 pm:

Er, Do wo me, I AM a woman. If this person were standing in front of me telling the story, I wouldn't doubt her for a second. My skepticism stems from observing a number of situations on message boards and chats where I found out after the fact that facts and identities had been misrepresented (dishonesty in online dating, making up injuries, etc.). Of course, that's nobody's fault here, and sometimes things really ARE what they seem...I dunno. The described incident would be a horrible thing to happen to anyone, and I apologize if I came across as insensitive.

Fresh-ex, I don't think ANYONE is saying that such an incident should go unreported! A number of people have posted advice about contacting police, getting refunds, etc. The point several of us are trying to make (I think?) is that justice doesn't get served from a message board. We can cheer her on (and react to her story, and argue with each other about it...) online, of course, but she's gotta pick up the phone.

So anyways, um.... Denver, are you out there? Please keep posting and let us know how you're doing.

[D'oh, Caleb posted first.]

By caleba76 on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 11:30 pm:

The question is though has it been reported. Denver hasn't posted anything saying that she went to the authorities.

Posting here is all well and good but it is anonymous. No one knows who did it or who it happened to. So please forgive some people for being skeptical.

In all my time in Dahn I never saw anything remotely like this happen and I admit I am skeptical about this incident. Not to say that it didn't happen or that it doesn't go on inside the organisation. It just seems to me to be very fast for the master to have singled her out.

Not just that but also to keep pursuing after she had rejected him.

Me I think the best thing for Denver to do is to report everything to the proper authorities, ie Police Department, as well as The State Attorney General's Office, and even the Better Business Bureau.

Not reporting it is to say that it never happened and to let it continue on to the next victim.

Just my two cents

By fresh-ex on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 08:30 pm:

do wo- i agree. what is this???
that is what i'm talking about my friends. don't believe her, and let it keep happening to other people, going unreported.
what about all that information we've been sharing? is it not valid now?
i am confused

By me so horny on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 07:21 pm:

Stilla - I love you but what planet are you on. Dahn masters are a bunch of frigid and sexually repressed juveniles. Throughout the ages "master",teachers , priest, rebbi's have been taking advantage of those they seek to enlighten. Dahn uses sexually energy to repress and manipulate there master's all that "I'll heal ya baby". They do it to each other so what makes you think they wouldn't try there lovin on a member. Believe me 10 out of 10 women have an unwanted forceful advance made on them.

What events are you going to?

All they have is the energy, cause baby there not having sex.

By Stillahealer on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 05:46 pm:

From my experience with Dahn Masters they would be much mort subtle than Denvers experience. That is unless they are turning out masters like an asembly line with no quality control.
Yes, there may be Sex and Power and Money at the top. They usually go hand in hand. For a new member to be accosted in that way is a stretch for me.
As usual I am just drawing from my own experiences. One of the things I loved about Dahn functions was the lack of sexual energy to muddy up the event.

By fresh-ex on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 05:23 pm:

i have been thinking about Denver's post alot this afternoon (sorry about that spelling mistake by the way- i didn't want to appear sloppy discussing such a serious incident).
it doesn't sound far-fetched to me. i thought about all the problems i've had with everything from chiropractors to teachers. i look back and realize that when a person has been treated innapropriately throughout their lives (like i have) i just didn't know when the line was being crossed. i would get quiet when i should have been screaming. but i grew up thinking from an early age that if i got unwanted "attention" from a man, i had brought it on myself. and they were always in some position of authority.
i never said anything because i didn't think anyone would believe me.
Denver, please report this immediately. you are innocent.

By do wo me no mo on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 05:08 pm:

What is this ?
When a woman says she is abused why do you immediately doubt her?

WOMEN ARE NOT GUILTY FOR VIOLENCE COMMITTED BY MEN ON OUR BODY, MIND, AND SPIRIT. THIS VIOLENCE HAPPENS BECAUSE OF MEN'S GREATER POWER AND THEIR MISUSE OF THAT POWER.

By Mouse on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 04:32 pm:

I don't really know what to say about Denver's post... I don't want to withold my support if she's telling the truth, but some of the details make it sound far-fetched. Let's just say I hope you told the authorities about it before you told us! And I do hope you're all right. :/

So for those of us who, for whatever reason, want a refund but don't want to (or shouldn't) set foot in the center again... Just a reminder that you CAN request your money back by letter (via certified mail, get a return receipt, etc). I think someone posted contact information on this board; push ctrl + F and type in "Quan Tae Kim" to find that post, if you're viewing this with Internet Explorer. You could also probably address it to your local center, unless it's the headmaster him/herself is the problem. But if you request a refund in writing and briefly explain why (with courtesy copies to the BBB and/or state AG, if applicable), odds are good that you'll get it.

(BTW, there appears to be another mousie on the board, which is fine ^_^ as long as everyone understands that "Mouse" and "one_mouse" are different people.)

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 01:36 pm:

Denver, you can do an experiment, if you're curious about your master. Go with his sexual prelude, but refuse to spend any money and see what happens.

They pick certain type of people with certain inclination. For those it'll be very difficult to refuse their suggestions because they appear they truely care about you and your soul's growth. Because they're so convinced that these will help you to find your true self and become a healer of the humanity, it may seem very complelling. I thought I found something truely meaningful. These all sound good. But after spending much time and money with the organization, many realize that "finding your true self" means erasing your preconceptions and replace them with Lee's own programs in your brain, which is to live for the vision of the Dahn world, which is to make more money to open more centers. Living only for "the vision" of Dahn is the only way to evolve your soul energy and nothing else matters. That's all it eventually amounts to - To make more money to open more centers. It's all for their self interest. I havn't seen or heard of anything they have done that is not for their own self interest - their money, power, growing business and influence.

To achieve their "vision" - which is to open more centers - they need money and people to become healers/masters. They will do/say/sell anything, including their own body and soul, to attract people and get what they need.

By dahnbuster on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 12:04 pm:

Dear Denver,

What you described is clearly sexual molestation of the worst kind. That man is a predator. Their lifestyle sets it up, but don't make excuses for him, for you, for Dahn, for anybody. Just calmly report the whole incident to the police and your local District Attorney.
This is akin to a Gynecologist molesting a patient during an "exam". It's a big breach of trust and a form of RAPE. Pleaaaaaaaaze. Do not keep this quiet. Everything happens for a reason. It's time for Dahn to pay the Fiddler; they've danced all night!

Courage and Cheer to you,
Dahnbuster
e-mail addy: dahn_buster@yahoo.com

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 10:41 am:

Their role model is their grand master Lee, who is known to be grand woranizer with his female subordinates. Once brainwashed, people completely loose their ability to make judgements and common senses. That's why the organization exists today. The group is a collection of people, who had been brainwashed when they were young, inexperienced, simple minded, and searching.

Their job is to make you feel very special and loved. They will want to connect with you on an emotional level with personalized attention and they are pretty good at that. It can be hard to resist if you are in a state where you need those. But please remember they ultimately use you and there are so many people saying the exactly the samething. You need to find out why.

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 10:18 am:

Denver,
You say "I'm not interested in dating my teacher".

First of all he is NOT a 'teacher'. They are people who know how to pretend. It's all pretension and making appearances. Don't be mistaken real "teachers" don't work for such a immoral criminal organization. They're prostitutes. They sell attention and fake love to weak and lonely people to get their money and free labor and expand their empire. What they're interested in is making money and recuiting people. They must have spotted you as a potential target, a master/healer material. Take advise.

By fresh-ex on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 10:05 am:

denver- when a woman has been sexually saaaulted, sometimes it helps to tell your doctor what happened. i was not assaulted at my center (no male masters)in that way, but i told my doctor and my family about all my terrible experiences there. it was reported to authorities. you must make an official complaint for anything to be done about it. good luck. please stay on the board.
i had a dream that my female masters were telling me about sexual slavery, but that it wasn't that bad... i dreamt that long before all the assaults started coming out. it is shocking.

By Stillahealer on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 09:35 am:

Denver,
I am conflicted. If your story is true take advise given and report immediately to the police and everyone else in your district. I can not imagine returning to a place where such things happened. And believe me I have put up with my fare share of inappropriate behavour myself in my lifetime.
This is over the top. he needs to be stopped now rathar than posting on anon. message board.

Good luck.

By fresh-ex on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 09:23 am:

Denver- i wish i was there for you right now. please call the police and the media. get all your money back and if he says no, explain the consequences, including deportation. get all your money back, gather your things and get out of there. he sounds quite bold, quite dangerous. what a horrible experience for you.
this could be happening to alot of other women at your center. please report him immediately.
dahn is a cult.

By one_mouse on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 09:01 am:

oh my...
I am sure that jerk doesn't have green card to stay legally in America.

By Denver on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 07:30 am:

Hi,

After attending a "free" class and being singled out by the Dahn Master afterwards, I was coerced into purchasing a years membership at a disocunt (900+ dollars). This went on my credit card so that I can make payments. A few visits later the Dahn Master said that I needed a private class. On a Friday while the regular vibrating class was going on, he had me lay down on the floor in this little room. He massaged me, concentrating on my belly. Then he sat at the top of my head. I opened my eyes for a moment and he was staring at me. I quickly closed my eyes. Then he kissed me. I pushed him away and siad that it was wrong. He tried to kiss me again, I again pushed him away. He ushered me out before the actual class was over. The next time that I showed for class, he apologized and said that I really needed his help. He said that he had never done anythng like that in 6 years and that he had never been with an american woman. He asked I meet him when he has more time, he had an elixir for me to try for my stomach problems. I went by on Suday to pick it up. It was expensive - 40.00. At first he seemed very remorseful of his actions, seemed deeply concerned about me. Then he said that he wanted to show me something. He took my hand and lead me into that room. He lay next to me with his penis throbbing... I was scared to move; he is so strong. I played out a role where I told him it just wasn't right for him. I got out of there and attended class 2x in the past week and a half. He doesn't hide his feelings for me when he is around others... I am not interested in dating my teacher, nor someone who is over 12 years older than I am. He is constantly trying to get me to buy more things that I can't afford. I really want my money back and to never go there again. I was made to feel as if I was special, and in believing in myself, I did experience some wonderful "gifts" but I don't feel that this had anything to do with this Dahn center.

~ Denver

By Dahnbuster on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 02:30 pm:

Reading between the lines of Dahn marketing...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How about the brochure for Healer (Schmeiler) School, where the photo shows two big-smilin'
ladies with the OCEAN as a backdrop?? In ARIZONA?

Fasti is a DOCTOR, right??? So is Ilchi Lee!
Please, Fasti's a !@#$%^& Dentist; so he knows about teeth. BFD.
Even My defective B.S. detector picked up on that one...
All this COERCED publicity.
It's a lot like myspace, with the teenagers "Be my friend, comment me, join my group..."
Same mentality: "all I am is what YOU SAY I AM."
Mouse is absolutely right about Dahn vs. real Yoga, in Dahn if your frickin' head falls off, they call it a "healing sign".

Speaking of Myspace, any more links? Any more articles? What news? There is a Korean Anti-Dahn newpaper article that needs to be translated, any volunteers???
See Andie Nevis for details!

Love,
Dahnbuster

http://blog.myspace.com/dahn_busters

http://groups.myspace.com/DAHNBUSTERS

http://www.myspace.com/dahn_busters

700 people have viewed my site.
I want to spread the word "BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY..."

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 01:38 pm:

Reading between the lines of Dahn marketing...

Dahn brochure quotes Dr. Albert Fasti under this title: (caps are mine) "OVERCOMING diabetes and heart disease"

(excerpts)

"I was also prone to heart attacks."

"My blood sugar is now under control."

"The thing that impressed me was that I do not run. I do my BR pracice only."

This makes it sound like Dr. Fasti's diabetes and heart disease were cured with BR training and that he had heart attacks before.

BUT, THE LONGER VERSION of his own story, found online (archived now by google), includes these statements:

"I WAS DEVELPING A THING CALLED SYNDROME X WHICH MAKES YOU PRONE TO HEART ATTACKS."
Ohhh, so now we see he was not prone to heart attacks at all, just had risk factors. And he doesn't say he ever had heart disease or a single heart attack.

"I do ride my bike sometimes."
So we see he didn't "just" do BR.

"I have no delusions about curing my diabetes because once you have it, you have it and the best you can do is control it."

So, we see he didn't exactly "overcome" his diabetes either.

On that same page:

"A DEVOTED HEALER"
(caps are mine)
"Terry Ferro is a wonderful friend and fellow Healer School student. We have been on the same path for awhile now. Terry is a teaching assistant and THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING THE MAYORS OFFICE TO ISSUE A PROCLAMATION DECLARING DR. ILCHI LEE AN HONORARY CITIZEN OF HOUSTON AND GOOD WILL EMBASSADOR FOR THE CITY."

So we get a clue to how Dr. Lee "won" that honor. I wonder how she did it. Does anyone here know?

By Mouse on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 01:11 pm:

"In most regular yoga classes I've taken, a lot of the poses are painful, but they help you to build flexibility and strength."

Well, yes, but I draw a distinction between muscle fatigue and stretching discomfort, and actual pain. If it leaves visible welts or bruises, or it still hurts after you stop, then you should be seriously asking if the pose/exercise/whatever is good for you or not. (BTW, if a particular yoga pose is just not good for you, a good instructor should be able to suggest an alternate pose.)

I guess I'm cranky about that part because I actually got bruises from the different tapping exercises (in so-called Dahn Yoga), as well as knee pain from some of the poses, and they just told me I should do MORE of those exercises to get rid of the "stagnant energy". Thank God for my BS detector. :P

By dahnbuster on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 12:20 pm:

I NEED LINKS!

BY http://www.newdahn.com/usa

http://www.rickross.com/groups/dti.html

http://www.wholehealthclinic.com/discus2/messages/5/172.html?1080067411

http://selectsmart.com/ilchilee.html

http://www.yogabasics.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=y03,v=display,m=1112215730,s=0

Can anybody think of any others????

Heye, the Wiccans got my back, WHEEEEEEE!
love, dahnbuster

By fresh-ex on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 08:23 am:

the exercises aren't the problem - that is how most people get drawn in. if one is aware of what dahn does to people they have a responsibility to themselves, and their families, to walk away from this destructive organization. not just stay for the exercise.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 07:28 am:

have any of you been to the ilchi academy website lately? It is really scarey particularly a woman on message boards who is having a terribly dark time as she makes the decision to give up her life for the vision. I wish there were a way to get her to this site! It is painful to read her experiences

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 07:06 am:

A bit more on Dahn selling to the foreigner in Korea. They are listed as #33 in an English tourist booklet about a 100 things to do in Seoul. This fits with a tourist visit to a Dahn center in Seoul, minimium 2 people advertised on the net.
What these tourist guides miss is that a couple of politicians associated with Dahn in 2002, where arrested this summer on corruption charges. Did these men loose their Dahn ethical edge?

By Dahn member on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 04:33 am:

"tell you that painful poses are good for you"

I'd have to disagree on this point.
In most regular yoga classes I've taken, a lot of the poses are painful, but they help you to build flexibility and strength.

By light30 on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 12:55 pm:

> -expect you to bow, hug and address him/her in another language
-tell you that painful poses are good for you
-incessantly ask for money or pressure you to accept additional services

I think you summarized pretty well the most annoying things -)).

Yes, and it isn't yoga , that is true. It is closer to the Chinse Qi gong, if anything.
And some excercises are pretty widely known, typical stretching you can find in your local gym.

But, excercise in itself is OK. Except, why call it yoga, when it is not? This is something I have a problem with as well.

By Mouse on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 11:34 am:

Yogachick--I'm relieved that you're not into the "philosophy", but it sounds like you specifically want a reputable YOGA class...and that's not what they teach there. I'm not The Yoga Expert (tm), but "Dahn Yoga" is, in most respects, unrelated to any accepted style of yoga that I'm aware of. Some of the poses *might* be appropriated from hatha yoga, but the class format itself (to say nothing of the goals of the organization!) is completely different from any real yoga class I've attended. The Dahn center may be conveniently located, but there have GOT to be better classes in your area that actually teach yoga... most likely at a fraction of the price!

I encourage you to open the phone book and find a yoga teacher who doesn't
-expect you to bow, hug and address him/her in another language
-tell you that painful poses are good for you
-incessantly ask for money or pressure you to accept additional services

You can also see if your local gyms offer yoga classes. Mine does, and it's free as part of my gym membership ($30/month)!

By Dahn member on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 08:36 am:

oops.
http://myspace.com/dahn_member

By Dahn member on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 08:34 am:

http:///myspace.com/dahn_member

I think Bomo said it- they don't offer programs for those who are financially weak (groups, etc.)
They only have centers in upper-middle class cities/suburban areas.
Notice how there are no centers in Nebraska, Kansas, Kentucky, Tennesee, etc. They see these people as poor, and therefore, not ready to be enlightened. And in places like California and New York, these are just goldmines for people who are searching for spirituality, new-age crap, yoga, veganism, hippy-stuff, you name it, whereas in Kansas, they'd probably describe Yoga as "a bunch of hoo-hah for those latte-drinking tree huggin stars in Hollywood".

But come to think of it, Dahn Yoga might actually make profits in those states, because they might be the only "yoga" centers around for MILES!
Whereas, Dahn Yoga places its centers in areas where you can find yoga centers EVERYWHERE.
It would be profitable, not to mention more dangerous to the people in the Dahn-neglected states were they to establish centers there, because Dahn Yoga would be there only source to "yoga" and "new-age- type things".

Sorry, I just got to thinking a lot.

By Momma on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 08:33 am:

Yogachick; Run don't walk back in there and get your $150.00 returned. Return the uniform and book (if you can fetch from the garbage).
Just tell them you found out is is not yoga at all and a front for a scam.

By do wo me no mo on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 07:27 am:

hi yoga chick

I understand what you are saying but Dahn is not really yoga it is a cult with yoga as a front.
I do not know where you live but there must be an alternative.

it is like, if I found out the local supermarket was loweing its prices because they were using slave labor - do i still shop there because it is convenient? you gotta take a stand sometimes for other people.

By YogaChicknotCultee on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 05:42 am:

So, I wanted to take some Yoga to relax and get in shape. The local Dahn place is 3 blocks from my house. I went, they were very nice and I signed up for a month for $150. I got the uniform and he gave me a book, which I basically chucked. I just want some damn yoga classes, that's al. Not into the philosophy, not into a cult, etc. I will keep you all posted as this progresses over the next month.

By dahnbuster on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 11:31 pm:

Thanks, Mouse.
I already posted the links to Civil Case and NewDahn... So did DahnMember. Hmmmm, If they're really interested they will go there, (to the websites) I just have to accept the fact that I can't copy and paste the whole world wide web!

Hey! New DAWN, I just got that!
<3,
dahnbuster

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 11:23 pm:

I just thought of one of the first ways that dahn starts to brainwash you into compliance.

Does anyone here remember washing the floor after class? How often do you wash the floor of your house? Are you on your hands and knees with a dirty rag? They won't even let you use a mop because it is an "energy" thing.

How many other ways can you remember giving up your independant thought?

By Mouse on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 11:13 pm:

As I understand it, a PDF file is a scanned image of an actual piece of paper, not a file that contains actual text. Therefore, you usually can't highlight and copy parts of the text, as you could from a text-containing file (such as this page). What you CAN do is provide a link to the PDF. There may also be a way to display it as you would a graphic, but 1) I don't know how, and 2) it might take too long to download for a passing reader to bother with it.

(That's a big problem with MySpace, actually... people pretty up their sites with huge pictures and weird-colored fonts without considering things like readability and the audience's crummy bandwith. At least NewDahn's flash show is relatively uncluttered.)

By dahnbuster on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 09:12 pm:

Help! Help!
Does anybody know how to 'copy and paste' a PDF file??
That fat little hand is not cooperating!
I want to paste the Civil Case on my website; to showcase the FAMILY'S perspective...
Tweeked again!
http://groups.myspace.com/DAHNBUSTERS

In honor of Julia,
Dahnbuster

By Dahnbuster on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 08:37 pm:

Just visited NewDahn:

"Once again, from now on, whoever found Dahn as a religion is not an enlightened person
but a fraud. You must keep yourself away from him/her...?"
Ilchi Lee

WOW! He said it HIMSELF. Incredible!
The 3-year plan is an eye-opener.
This is so George Orwell it's not even funny.
I need to start writing letters to my Rep./Senator/A.G.
Good luck to everybody!
Dahnbuster

Nice tae have yae bak, Mt. Fuji Boyae.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 03:26 pm:

Anyone considering a membership in Dahn Yoga should please read the NewDahn site. If you still wish to give your hard earned money to a cult that sexually abuses its female masters, be forewarned. Knowledge is Power, not just information as lee states. He wishes to keep you ignorant while taking your last nickel.

By Momma on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 03:12 pm:

http://www.newdahn.com/usa

This site is full of facts. When will main stream media check this out? America you are asleep at the wheel.

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 02:27 pm:

Check out www.newdahn.com/usa

They posted a list of former masters and why they left the organization.

This shows even more lies put forth by a supposed enlightened man. What it really shows is how big of a liar lee really is and everyone should be warned of this dangerous organization.

If there are still doubters out there you need to get your head out of the dirt and pay attention before you get hurt.

Spread the word!!!

By Bomo on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 07:44 am:

Dahnmember -
Andrew Nevis gave such great advice.
It is a big adjustment that you have to do.
To some extent you are subject to reverse psychology right now - it makes DAHN seem more desirable/attractive now that they have rejected you. Same as applies to a jilted lover.
Make a list of all the good things about being out.

As for 'bad energy' - it is a cop-out.
Do you expect them to tell the others that you came to your senses?
I remember staffing a public event in which Dahn people ( masters, healers, other dahn member volunteers) essentially over-ran the event, invading the personal space of other exhibitors, littering the place with flyers, accosting people at every turn - to the point that organisers asked them to send some of us home.
The response from a master in attendance was that they were jealous of us. There was no admitting that we made others uncomfortable, and that we were indeed a little disrespectful by being so overwhelmingly ubiquitous within the limited exhibition space.

By Andrew Nevis on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:34 pm:

Dahn member by now you should realize we care. As one person posted, a new door has opened for you. It's always harder to leave something when your pushed, but this is for the best.
You've been pushed from prison,"free, free."
Okay, it'll take time for you to celebrate. Mark the calendar the day you leave Dahn and plan on a party with friends on the anniversary date. You are so much better off outside Dahn.
Make a list of positive things to do, and then take the next year doing them.
Also do have fun. Make them bone computers.(new product line) Place whoppi cushions in public places or on this board. Distribute Lee dart boards and call it brain qi voodoo.
Lastly do take care of yourself. Help us warn other people, but in a warm and fun way.

By HealerNoMore on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:25 pm:

Dahnmember,

Don't take it personally. I have seen them "remove" members that they did not like. They have a subtle way of making the targeted member feel like S***t and leaving. I have seen this with healers as well as regular members. The speech is the same, "So and So had bad energy and there was nothing we could do to help, blah,blah,blah.

If they feel they are unable to make you fit their restrictive mold they have no use for you. Remember it is about them controlling you and getting your money.

On the bright side, at least you did not waste too many years of your life in a fog thinking you were helping people, while they slowly drained the best years of your life away.

When one door closes another opens. Good Luck with your future prospects. You are only limited by your own thoughts. Do what you want to do and be happy.

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 03:37 pm:

oh yeah, anon, i remember signing one of those employee at will statements.
i'm not so good with tax forms and stuff. i tend to just get a job and do my best and, consequently, have never been fired.
but they didn't fire me anyway; they just expressed the fact that they didn't think i should keep working there.
i guess i could have fought, but then again, why would you want to stay somewhere that you are not wanted?

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 03:34 pm:

they didn't fire me... they just said that i was not "contibuting good energy" to the center by my activities.
basically suggesting that I should leave.

oh- momma, the JWJN is a female and the SBN is a female but I don't talk much to the other male master, who is fairly new.
Maybe that's why he told me that? Because he wasn't really close to me, as the JWJN and the SBN are (or..WERE).

Anyway, I guess I could have stayed but who would want to in those conditions?

I remember you guys saying that Dahn Yoga does not fire their employess but finds ways to have them resign, in order to get out of paying unemployment or something like that.

And when I was hired, they said if they felt I wasn't doing my job properly, they could fire me anyway.

BAH.
I need a vacation from this.

I'll check back later to see if any breakthroughs have been made.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:36 pm:

> I think what he did is questionable and if I would you I would consider hiring an attorney who will take your case on retainer. That is just weird.

Don't waste the money. If you are not a member of a union, or had a contract, then you were an employee at will and could be fired at any time, for any reason. Trust me on this, I studied Business Law.

If you are an employee at will, you can be fired at any time, with or without a reason, and the employer isn't obligated to provide any justification.Unless, you can prove there was some unlawful behaviour involved like racial discrimination.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:57 am:

National California Other States
Summary
Employment at Will
Terminating an Employee
Federal Plant-Closing Law
Employee Resignation
Releases/Waivers
Final Payment
Income Tax/W-2
COBRA
Company Property
Recordkeeping

Summary

In general, employment is considered to be at-will, which means either the employee or the employer may terminate the employment relationship at any time and for any reason. However, there are some limits to the at-will rule. If there is an employment contract, either express or implied, that limits the employer’s right to terminate employment, the employer must comply with the requirements of the contract. Contracts may include collective bargaining agreements, individual employment agreements, and employee handbooks. In addition, there are state and federal laws that limit an employer’s right to terminate an employee where the reason for the termination is discriminatory or in retaliation for the employee exercising particular rights. There are also laws that apply to a group layoff situation and that govern final paychecks and the continuation of health insurance upon the termination of employment.

Employment at Will

In the absence of an existing law, employment contract, or collective bargaining agreement to the contrary, employment relationships are generally considered to be employment-at-will. Both the employer and employee are free to terminate the employment relationship at any time, without notice, and for good reason, bad reason, or no reason at all. This legal theory is commonly referred to as the employment-at-will doctrine.

Please see the state EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS, state TERMINATION sections.

Legal Limitations: Wrongful Discharge

There are a number of exceptions to this general rule. They come under the general heading of "wrongful discharge."

Discrimination. Federal antidiscrimination laws protect employees from losing a job on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, religion, disability, pregnancy, or age. Employees can bring an action against their former employers under the Civil Rights Act of 1964,the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), the Pregnancy Discrimination Act, or the Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA). There are numerous state laws that forbid discrimination in employment as well.

Employment contracts. Although an employment contract is generally understood to be a set of written agreements entered into by the employer and the employee, an unwitting employer may ultimately find itself bound to a promise made by a personnel manager during an interview or by a manager in a memo posted on a bulletin board. A promise, or "contract," may also be implied in an employee handbook. Most often, the promise boils down to this: no discharge except for good cause.

Although the enforcement of such promises varies considerably from state to state, employers should be extremely careful about the promises and representations that are made to employees before and during employment. Some careless promises can place an employer in an unexpected and undesirable contractual relationship and effectively remove any right it may have had to terminate an employee without cause.

Please see the national Employment Contracts section.
Please see the state Employment Contracts section.

Discipline policies. Many companies have specific disciplinary procedures set forth in a policy manual or employee handbook. If the employer has failed to follow such established procedures, or the policies limit the employer's discretion to terminate its employees, the employee may have a state law cause of action for breach of implied employment contract or wrongful discharge.

Retaliation. Generally, an employer may not terminate an employee in retaliation for engaging in an otherwise protected activity. An employer may be found liable for retaliatory discharge if the employee can prove that he or she was engaged in a "protected activity" (such as filing a Title VII complaint), that the employer was aware of the protected activity, and that because of the protected activity, the employer subjected the employee to an adverse employment action (e.g., termination).

Terminating an employee who has engaged in a protected activity is a matter that should be approached with extreme caution. However, the mere fact that a worker has filed a complaint should not prevent an employer from terminating an otherwise undesirable employment relationship. As long as the termination is warranted, is not imposed on a pretext, and is consistent with past practice, the employer is theoretically secure from liability.

?

.

By Mouse on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:55 am:

Oh, I didn't know that that was different from state to state. Hmm.

By Mouse on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:52 am:

It's somewhat questionable, but if you read the paperwork, most places reserve the right to fire an employee at any time for any cause (just as the employee can quit at any time for any cause). And if said employee is posting negative remarks about the employer in public places... well... yeah. :/ It has happened before.

With that said, I'm really sorry it happened to you, DM. But college also leads to personal growth and career opportunities (seriously) so I think that's a great next move. Good luck.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:24 am:

i think it depends on the State. Some states are right to work states which means one can be fired t will. The benefit of right to work states is that non-compete contracts are not enforced.
Also depends if an employee is on probabion usually during the first 90 days. For once I am on Dahn side. They have a right to expect loyal employees who do not share insider conversations or invormation

By fresh-ex on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:16 am:

i agree, don jon. how can someone be fired for what we are doing here. dahn member should look into her/his rights. actually sounds like a great opportunity for exposing dahn.
good luck

By don jon on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 07:59 am:

I think what he did is questionable and if I would you I would consider hiring an attorney who will take your case on retainer. That is just weird.

By oy do woe is me on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 07:59 am:

You are no slave, this man is no master. it;s just a job.. never forget that . you are putting to much into this. get to school. do not let this mind mushing get to you. "massa" was just your boss. not family. If "Massa" exprsses any kind of concern and friendship for you it was all fake. yes. a better preformance than paris hilton can give.

When i left dahn - that day i found a legit yoga studio to go to. I blew my mind. i did not work out with some chickky from the gym -i went to a top studio. i have never felt so good. these instctors new the body truly inside and out. I was so happy to see the instuctors go home afer class to there own lives. nobody was trying to take me to a differnt level.

By clockwork on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 07:38 am:

Good Luck to you Dahn Member, I hope all works out in the end and I hope you will be happy. again Good Luck to you! We all care more then you know.

By Momma on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 06:25 am:

"I was identified by my master, and HE asked that I resign, because HE did not think I was truly dedicated to my work at the center.
HE is mostly right, but I still wasn't ready to leave"

Dahnmember; This is the first time you referred to any master at your center as "He"
Whats up with That????

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:20 am:

Thank you, m'dear.
But you guys are right, the denial is clearing and the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is becoming apparent.
I'm gonna stay away from the internet for a while because I feel compelled to check this site at least 3 times a day, which is not healthy, and it's causing me a lot of anxiety.

I might go for a road trip. Sometimes I do that when I get stressed out, and I need some time alone.
Especially since I was planning to be in Sedona- well those plans fell through weeks ago, but I was still denying it to myself.

Sorry, I'm depressed and stressed. I need to find a job and try to at least get enrolled at a community college.

Maybe I'll be back once I can pull myself together.

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:04 am:

I do care Dahnmember. I was concerned when you told us some details about yourself that could i.d. you. It is not difficult to find out which area is having Shim Sung on a particular weekend. They watch anyone like a hawk once they find you have been to this site.
God is working in your life though forcing you out of there. Sorry about the job loss; not too late to get back in school.
Please stay. You are loved.

By DAHNBUSTER on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 12:59 am:

DahnMember,

I care! Take heart, because

"Nothing, but nothing, happens in God's World by accident." (The Big Book: Alcoholics Anonymous)

I know how you feel, being dogged out and all. People hate on me because I'm tall, blonde, and beautiful. Now, how can I help that???

ROFLMAO!
dahnbuster!
p.s... and MODEST, TOO!

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 12:11 am:

Ok.
Bad news (for me, maybe you guys won't even care).

I was identified by my master, and he asked that I resign, because he did not think I was truly dedicated to my work at the center.
He is mostly right, but I still wasn't ready to leave.

I'm feeling pretty down.
I don't feel comfortable posting here, at least not for a while.

I'm sure you guys either a)won't care, or b)will be happy to be rid of me, as I'm sure my center is right now.

Take care, and thanks for the truth.

By fresh-ex on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 12:00 am:

ok Bomo- i am glad we cleared that up. i didn't think you felt that way, but sometimes a post can be confusing. you would be amazed at the people who do think its ok that julia died. actually, what am i saying?? you were there right after. what you wrote gives me chills. and i am not surprised they handled your group so carefully after such an incident. i can't believe what a coward lee is.
MKD- you should feel really good that you talked your friend. i introduced quite a few people to dahn and also attracted alot of new members at open house. i was always there, i always had my uniform and did my best to demonstrate the very best dahn techniques. i felt really guilty about it but thought i would look crazy if i hung around the center like a bad smell after i left. so how could i help? i talked to every single member i had become close to, first off. i called them, invited them over. then when i saw other members i didn't know so well i would approach them(not easy) and just say what i had to say. sometimes it worked, sometimes not. i hope your friend is reading the board. she must know that being "headstrong" will not protect her, and staying for the exercise won't cut the mustard. a mink coat is warm, but alot of people won't wear them... because the good does not outway the bad. (for example) i too, was a volunteer!!! i was being groomed for sure. and it kept me poor and very very busy. i felt so much pressure to be there all the time, and be willing to do whatever they asked, that it isolated from my friends, family, i started neglecting my regular job which i nearly quit to prove my devotion to dahn. i was so close to being at their complete mercy.
i hope she keeps in touch in with you. i just made a print-out to keep in my wallet for anyone that i might cross paths with. when it happened before, i would sometimes stumble on my words, start losing my nerve. they made me so nervous with that look.
i believe the energy you experienced with her was real. i had amazing experiences with some people, one that just quit with my help! we even talked about that day when i was filling her in on the truth about dahn. its not like it never happened or that it wasn't valid anymore. but she was outa there!! she called today to let me know. so keep it up MKD. you are great.
dahn is a cult.

By DAHNBUSTER on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 11:31 pm:

How did they link the word "failure" to George Bush's web-page?

"You link the word "CULT" (the word prompt) to the website~~> http://www.dahnyoga.com <~~/you want google to recognize as a result. So everytime someone clicks the link, google will archive it. The only problem is that it would require hundreds of thousands to millions of hits before you can get the page you want on the first page of googles search.

"hundreds of thousands to millions of hits???"
HMMM, maybe not yet. how about Yahoo?

OH! and check this oot, eh? when you go to the Kotex-ad Dahn-Hak website, you cannot BACKARROW out of it, you are STUCK there! I found that very poignant.

Andrew Nevis, no you cannae tak a holiday. You must be the Apostle Andrew, you know the one who always went off a-fishing when there was work tae do? HA!

How would it be if we were to start a petition??
To send to everybody's State or Province Attorney General AND BBB??

We could start at the Yahoo site, how is that coming by the way???

F.Y.I. Dahn-member is dahnbusting her lil' keister off at myspace.
As for me at myspace, 600 people have viewed the
words "Dahn-Hack yoga is a cult-pass it on"
That's all I care about, spreading the message.
The Venue is unimportant.

Jolly good show, everyone!
DAHNBUSTER

p.s. I type in caps so I can SEE, not SHOUT, okay? All the web etiquette rules are cool except for that one, which is stupid.

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 11:16 pm:

BOMO,

The masters in Sedona were aware of Julia's condition because she had to fill out a medical waiver/form before she took the training.

I have spoken to several masters and all the training seems to change from group to group.

The common factor remains that dahn yoga and lee put peoples lives at risk.

All of the training you do is designed to make you loyal to that thug lee.

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 11:02 pm:

Did anyone watch the golf tournament at Baltrusol this weekend? The temperature was extremely hot and unbearable. There were reports of many people seeking and getting medical attention due to the heat. There was plenty of water available for everyone, over 30,000 people. The organizers of this event planned for every possible outcome. They deserve much credit.

The masters who planned the ill fated hike which took the life of Julia Siverls should be ashamed of themselves. They had five people in their care and one died. The did not have enough water, food, or even shade. The masters did not have a plan in case of an emergency. The plan in place was to complete the hike no matter what happened. This was to complete the vision. It is a flawed vision instilled in their feeble minds by a con man named lee.

The masters of dahn are trained to complete the vision in spite of any and all obstacles. They will sacrafice everything to make lee happy. They will give up their families,dignity, homes,jobs,money and even their lives for a con man who will discard them when they are of no use to him.

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 10:38 pm:

"the Master is genuine"--mkd

Yes, the master is "genuine" in his or her attempt to keep you fooled while they take as much of your money as possible before you find out you are being used. The whole act put on by masters is to get your money. Why would anyone believe they have special knowledge of enlightenment? They are probably breaking some type of law to be here (green card marriages, tax evasion, money laundering,etc.). This should be proof enough for anyone to not trust them or anything they tell you. Please read the postings on the internet regarding this group. They are a very immoral and dangerous group whose only purpose is to make their "god" lee a very rich man.

If there are any current members here please ask the masters in the most polite way(since they are victims of abuse) how it feels to be a puppet slave of an ex-con and a con man (among other sleazy things). Do they get some type of satisfaction by being used? Is their self esteem so low they don't care about their well being? Since this seems to be the case why would I want to put my trust and confidence in them? Is it because of the uniform? I can buy a uniform anywhere.

I keep reading about trusting masters and how they are trustworthy and real. Please wake up and see them for the victimizers they are. They will take your money, your time, and maybe even your life.

By mkd on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 09:34 pm:

I spoke to a friend today whom I turned on to dahn when i was fully immersed and I am concerned. She is definitely a headstrong woman who is well aware of the cult like antics of dahn but she tends to feel she is safe because of what I and others have apparently told her. What concerns me most is that she paid the initial payment necessary for 10 classes and because she couldn't afford the rest of her balance they allowed her to attend class as long as she "volunteered" at the center. When she paid up her balance she needed to renew and she did the same thing as previously only this time they allowed her to pay off what she owed by only working one or two days at the center. I told her she is so obviously a target for a master in training and she should be careful. She is definitely at the stage of thinking she is safe because she is "headstrong." I re-instated to be extra cautious and she said basically she is happy with the physical aspects she is receiving from class and the master is "genuine" and she won't allow herself to be sucked in.
I cant help but feel bad about the fact she is involved because of me. She says when I introduced her she could feel how strong my energy was and she says energy is energy although their "ways " may be not for real, what I experienced and sahred with her was...so she will continue with caution. I only help this board and others will help her.

By Bomo on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 07:28 pm:

"People sometimes want to believe the best, and want to believe what they are told"

Fresh-ex, please re-read my post.
Everything that comes after the words in quotes repeated above, represents the rationalisation
that could be done - and which indeed was done by many people based on the available information at the time, and the spin that was put on it.

Of course I am not condoning what happened. How could I? Any one of us could have been in her place and would have been essentially unprotected and unspoken for in the same way - going by the reports that are coming out.

And, of course when I left for Sedona I did not know the full details. That was 2 years ago.
What I did find distasteful at the time was that Dr Lee had just rounded out the Healing Chakra tour fully knowing what happened, and did not even make himself present at the private meeting in the next room when those of us who knew Julia personally were herded in and given the horrible news. He absolutely should have been there.
Instead he gave a strange talk about Mago Garden and death that gave me the chills in retrospect.

When I got on the plane I did have second thoughts, but the ticket was already paid, as was a big chunk of Healer School money. Small comfort - it probably became a safer environment for us and every person who has gone since then -because of what happened. Do not take this last statment out of context please - it is only a sensible, rational observation: they were very vigilant about us and our well being during that week.

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 05:33 pm:

Actually, I am a W2 employee.
I was going to say something about that, because I'd repeatedly heard people saying that all of Dahn Yoga's employees were paid "under the table".
Maybe they've just begun to hire legally, but I can guarantee that it's as legitimate of a JOB (caps for emphasis) as any other I've had (coffee shop, etc.).
I stress the word job, because it's a legitimate job in that it pays sufficiently for the hours and the work done.
That says nothing for the organization itself, however.

By fresh-ex on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 02:19 pm:

Bomo- there is still no excuses or reasons that make julia's death acceptable in my opinion. have you read all the postings about what happened, and the articles? if she wasn't in good shape, why put 40 lbs of rocks on her back and send her out with hardly any water? they are responsible for that.
did you know everything at the time you jumped on that plane, bomo?
when i run into current members on the street, they say its ok that bad things happen to some members (like dying) because so many good things happen to other members (like becoming enlightened).
its amazing how current members have reasoned alot of these issues- is that what you mean about it not being straight forward? alot of things got muddled through brainwashing. i was starting to accept nearly everything at one point, until i heard about the hummer.
in truth, i am not totally clear on your posting... you aren't condoning her death i take it, right?

By Momma on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 01:38 pm:

Dahnmember;

Would you please clarify your status at your center? I get the impression you are an employee, part of the new expansion program of hiring people from the community to man the front desk, teach classes and do community outreach, otherwise known as dropping flyers.
Are you considered a W2 employee of Dahn? If so your role is not a money generator, you are filling in the spots while the masters gather the money. And the INS is happy because Dahn Yoga is hiring, and if they can not get enough Americans to fill these positions, they can bring more Koreans here legally.
Also Dahnmember have you read Ilchi lees' books and teachings about changing the world before 2012. Or is this information kept from employees?
Just wondering

By Bomo on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 01:22 pm:

To: Dahnmember
When I said:
"and the lack of concern and attention for those less financially well off - i.e: the lack of an affordable program for such people"

I wasn't speaking of concessions to individual members on a case by case basis - this is relative, and at the JWN's discretion.I was speaking about countrywide structured programs for the benefit of those (much) less well off.

I tried in vain to procure used power brains (which I knew existed) to supply my volunteer class with the gadgets. I was willing to pay for them - but, instead I was shown the shiny boxes stacked on the shelf. I felt really unsupported.

You were 'fortunate' - if that's the word - to have paid very little in currency, but judging from your posts - you did pay, as we all did.

By Bomo on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 12:45 pm:

Fresh-ex, it is not as simple as that.
People sometimes want to believe the best, and want to believe what they are told.
It is possible, one could even say that it was inevitable (under the weather conditions in Sedona in August)and what was only known as 'rigorous' outdoor Sbnm training, that someone might succumb eventually -- this year, next year, whatever. To that perpective, add the knowledge that Julia might not have been in tip top health, and the spin that was given: that she wanted to be a Sbnm more than anything -- and one might put the incident to the back of one's mind as tragic, and unfortunate. I jumped on a plane for Sedona mere days after getting this news.

By fresh-ex on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 11:47 am:

good advice, momma.
its been... difficult.
i think the board is deliberately being disrupted by dahndroids, so its hard to stop. for those unfamiliar with the term, a "dahndroid" is a dahn member who goes on the board and tries to disrupt information being shared by trying to cause discomfort, hurt feelings, and general mayhem. they also criticize the organization while still remaining a member,while claiming to be aware of the information, such as the death in sedona.
how anyone can turn a blind eye to that is beyond me.

By momma on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 10:18 am:

Ten Web Etiquette

Make sure the words you use online are words you'd be comfortable saying face to face.

Avoid using the Internet to convey upset feelings. Do it in person instead.

Type all messages in lowercase letters. Typing in CAPITALS is considered "yelling" online.

Respect your own privacy and the privacy of others.

Never harass, abuse, or threaten others online.

If you disagree with someone, respond to the subject, not the person.

Always avoid using racist or discriminatory terms.

Don't spread rumors, gossip, or other hurtful words about another person.

Use good grammar when writing to authority figures.

Obey the law.

Originally published in Better Homes and Gardens magazine, June 2004.

Read more articles about learning ...

Claim your FREE year of Better Homes & Gardens magazine and FREE COOKBOOK!

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 07:41 am:

Mouse; case is still not filed in Bronx Superior Court.

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 03:33 am:

yeah pandora's box is just a bunch of articles.

doomsday theories?
sheesh.
maybe i missed the Dahn you guys were in.

By fresh-ex on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 09:00 pm:

dahn member? who is that

By Anonymous on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 08:50 pm:

Dahn member and Fresh-ex, you seem to have a lot more in common than you want to admit, almost like hearing the same person talking.

By fresh-ex on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 08:21 pm:

wow, that newdahn site is wild! thanks for encouraging me to check it out

By oy do woe is me on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 07:42 pm:

I opened it and it was fine.

By fresh-ex on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 07:17 pm:

has anyone opened the pandora's box on the new dahn? i am so weary of opening links.
Andrew- i agree fully with your response on fence-sitting. sounds like you are having some fun! the stuff about videos on buses is so disturbing. that really scares me.
Mouse- did you read the documents of the lawsuit that were posted on-line?
Bomo- i was bombarded with doomsday theories while at dahn. it got heavier and heavier, until one day i was told i had to save my soul (with enough money of course) so DR.LEE would take me to his planet. yyyyyyah

By Dahn member on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 06:49 pm:

oops, yeah well...
they didn't take advantage of me financially.
maybe because people who actually have money are more willing to give it away.

http://www.myspace.com/dahn_member
has anyone even looked at it?

By Andrew Nevis on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 06:48 pm:

Bo-Beep, cannae a man take a vacation for a few days. Trip was good, I'm still stiff in parts The parts that are loose have shades and are smoking.
Similiar lines to a man who adorns our dart boards. What does Lee say after sex? What did you say your name and center were?
What does Lee say to his wife before sex? I'll call you back in an hour.

Seriously folks, Dahn is expanding into different areas. Dahn video ads are on airport limo buses in Korea, and if the traveller doesn't know the company they'll say it looks good. Should we spend time here bickering, who will warn the traveller?

I also wonder about fence sitters? The person who has read the information, but is only thinking about leaving Dahn. Why?
Any energy you'd used as an individual to save the planet will be taken from you. The energy will be used to make Lee richer, and the planet poorer. To think otherwise is to live in denial, the board has shown the facts.
We have no video, pictures, but enough has been printed for the mind to create a true image of reality.

On the paranioa, it works both ways. How long can Dahn trust a person who reads material from this and similiar websites? The fence sitter could face hidden discrimination, as they might be seen as a possible spy?

So to the fence sitter, do make a choice, personal freedom or Dahn? Sitting on the fence makes you suspect to both sides or as attractive as warm spit.

Final note to Dahnroids, tell your other andies in Japan, I told the protective spirit of the nation your a cult;) If they want to make the case otherwise, they have to take a hike.

By Dahn member on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 06:46 pm:

i'm not insulting anyone.
it's not like just saying to someone "you're stupid!"

i'm saying how you come off to visitors.

if you really want to sound like wacko fanatics, go ahead, but i can guarantee that you're scaring people off.

i think Dahnbuster is a very productive person, so i don't see where you get off insulting her, just to get at me.
oh wait- lack of things to criticize me on, besides me "not being serious enough", perhaps.

i don't care.
i'm not afraid of you, and i'm not going to leave OR change my name.
this is a public forum, and just because my views don't match up with yours, i'm not going to change them, and i'm not going to kiss your ass.

SO PLEASE START POSTING ABOUT DAHN YOGA NOW AND STOP BASHING ON PEOPLE, THANK YOU.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 06:28 pm:

http://www.newdahn.com/usa

New posting on the real mission of Dahn Yoga. Business model posting

By Bomo on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 05:13 pm:

If Sifu is still reading the board - please post again - thanks.

By fresh-ex on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 04:34 pm:

why does the board only go back to july sometimes???

By fresh-ex on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 04:33 pm:

dahn member- how do you expect people to take this seriously when you are just "joking around" all the time?
there you go again, calling people wackos and being rude. this is the last time you or your little buddy there are going to be acknowledged by me. change your name like your clever friend if you want, you still smell and sound like the same old crap.
bomo- i agree that people are taken advantage of financially. if you give them your last penny they think its "beautiful". it shows your willingness, how much your soul has grown... its all related to money!!! they also lied to me and said they had great jobs, etc. .. look i drive a nice car (supplied by dahn) and i live in a house (payed by dahn and packed with masters spying on eachother).
mouse- i have been waiting for more info on the lawsuit as well. i typed in "dahn cult" last night and now that takes you to a wierd page that says dahn yoga cult and is selling a bunch of stuff and just loops around and around. its creepy. i am making cards today with this board address on them to hand out so people don't miss it. i just hope they don't think its lame with some of the recent postings(only some).
clockwork- we see eye to eye! this is serious business. that is why i post here. i've never been on a message board in my entire life! its because of what happened to me with dahn and changed my life forever. its not about being bitter, its caring for my community, the people that are still there, and stopping an organization that is poisoning the minds of today's youth.yup, serious stuff. families are affected. people kill themselves. its serious.

and by the way, peter betrayed jesus. that is the last thing i am going to say about those posts.

By Stillahealer on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 04:03 pm:

Will check on it again tomorrow; too late on the East coast now.

By Mouse on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 04:01 pm:

*awkward*

So anyways... if I missed a post on this topic, I sorry, but did anyone ever find out the status of the wrongful-death suit/complaint/whatzit? I remember someone posting that it hadn't been assigned a case number, and so wasn't yet "official". Update?

By Dahn member on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 03:11 pm:

oh jeez fresh-ex, get over yourself.
as Dahnbuster said, we're not in high school.
i wasn't serious when i was talking about "being cool".
LIGHTEN UP.
some people's attitudes on here are so stiff, humorless and militant that it makes this board seem like a bunch of wacko fanatics, and quite frankly, might make a lot of current Dahn members turn right back around and go back to their centers (this is the feeling i sometimes get, and i know those less brave than i probably feel the same way).

Bomo- I'd have to disagree with your statement about Dahn Yoga's lack of affordability for those who are financially in need.

Wait...maybe that's why I'm not as bitter or angry as most of you- because I was actually helped out financially, and I wasn't suckered out of my money. (if you can believe that).

So, for another Dahn Yoga reference site, go to mine (clockwork, I don't have non-Dahn-related content on mine, if that helps).
http://www.myspace.com/dahn_member

By Anonymous on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 01:35 pm:

That would be fresh ex with whom I agree.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 01:31 pm:

I agree with anon 12:48. This is so disapointing.
Before I left two months ago after three years
in Dahn someone had e-mailed this site to all
healers in our area. It was so helpful and
the experiences were all so familar that I
knew I wasn't blowing my questions and doubts
out of proportion. One day after another
confrontation with yet another new master,
it was very easy to leave and I have never
doubted once that it was the right thing to do,
nor have I felt any remorse or sadness.
I still have a few friends there and had passed
this site and then NewDahn on. I too, am
embarrassed to know that they are reading
some of the dribble that is posted and using
this site as it is now to help them make a
decision re Dahnhak.

By fresh-ex on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 12:48 pm:

you know, i was just thinking... this board is getting way off course with all the wierd cryptic postings and comparing ourselves to the jesus's friends. and worrying about who thinks we are cool. can we please stay on topic.
i had a rough night so i sat up and read back back back into the postings on this board. it reminded me how important this board is. i saw how people struggled, its so difficult at first. we can be here for eachother emotionally but i have been feeling that i would hesitate to pass this address on to someone only for them to find people writing gibberish, and remaining in the organization. they need more than that to help them get out.
for newcomers- you must scroll waaay way back, my friends, and put some serious time into reading this board. that is how you will really learn what dahn is all about. skimming won't do it.
i worry that people are trying to drag down the integrity of this board.

By Stillahealer on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:06 am:

Bomo:
Thanks for sharing your conclusions about Dahn Yoga. Also Thanks for reminding us about raising the energy level of the board. Dahn Yoga management could have a field day by taking the tone out of complete context serving to reinvigorate the troops. They are probably urging them to pray for our lost souls while reminding them how Seuseu nim has overcome even bigger obstacles in Korea only to grow more and more. Because they have the truth of Cosmic Energy behind them!!!.
Once again lets be careful with our language, lets be respectful if we all do not think feel or respond in a manner we expect. Lets not kill the messengers.
Newcomers please take the time to reread this board; almost all questions have been answered already.
Remember it is about sharing your experiences.
Bomo hope you live in an area that has some ex Dahn Yoga folks. They are the best. Start your own class with rotating instructors. Build it and they will come.

By Bomo on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 09:24 am:

Hello everyone -
It has been a sort of relief to read the postings on this site - I have had reservations about this organisation very early on into my membership and struggled with my doubts for a long time. Chiefly - the incessant recruiting, the high cost of everything, the targeting of those with money, the senseless gadgets (which like many, I bought)
and the lack of concern and attention for those less financially well off - i.e: the lack of an affordable program for such people.
They claim to be Taoist, but I wonder if they are truly that. Dahn seems to have too much of an agenda and too much of a tight timetable to do the listening and waiting that true Taoism requires.
There have been doomsday theories in the past - most recently in the 90's when a man named Harold Camping spread the word that the world as we know it would come to an end in October 1992.
And, there are a lot of groups using America as a forum, as a megaphone - take Falun Gong for example. Our openness is a blessing and as we all know too well, can be used by others for their gain, and sometimes to our detriment.
What I feel while reading the board and which is a little sad,is that some of us have become bitter and it is comsuming us. Please keep your heart. The energy principle is real, valid. Raise the energy of the board. I'm glad to have found this and other sites that only confirm what my gut has been saying for a long time.
My chief concern now is finding a place to practice, to meditate, to keep going.
Good luck to all seekers. Don't give up.

By clockwork on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 04:45 am:

Fresh-Ex I am so impressed by all that you are doing, I agree with your cause. I am obssessed with spreading the word and helping people to see Dahn for what it really is. That would be so brave of you if you went to the papers, I would be so impressed, I will attempt to do the same.
Dahnbuster I have went onto myspace a few times but I am very slow when it comes to this type of thing. I did not know where to begin, I want to join but I don't know how, I am slow I know. But I have been looking around and exploring your site, very interesting except all the girls with their legs spread and wearing lingerie, that is what turned me away from the site, these girls make it look like a joke of some sort or a perv site. But I was not ignoring you at all even though I made no comments.

By Dahn member on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 03:14 am:

http://www.myspace.com/dahn_member

add me as a friend
or at least check out my page- i put up some cool stuff, and it can be another reference to use.

By Dahn member on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 01:22 am:

cool, i'm peter?
hey, isn't he the guy who says who gets into heaven?
or he stands at the gates or something....

yeah this board is getting so big.
were we going to make a Dahn Yoga group on Yahoo?
hee hee.
Mouse is cool.

By Dahn member on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 01:17 am:

"Am I out of "the clique" because I defended
DahnMember?"
Dahnbuster- so I'm not cool?
Yeah you're right, I know of a few other Westchesters... howeveryou spell that.

Oh and about the college campuses, I should know about that. I'm in college, they have clubs on a bunch of campuses- UCLA and UMass are ones I know about, but I know there's at least 10.

Also, I have a MySpace but I don't want to reveal myself so I didn't join.
I guess I could create a fake account though.

By Mouse on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 01:09 am:

OKAY, I joined MySpace already! Now somebody be PurpleMouse's friend.

DahnBuster-- I must confess that I'm not a Christian, but a guy named James IS significant to my world view. We may not be talking about exactly the same person, but the coincidence is interesting, and I'm still a little flattered. ;) I'll keep encouraging productive discussion....hopefully. ;)

By Mouse on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 12:39 am:

OK, home from work, and my connection's working again. Yay

To anon #948 (14 Aug), search engines rank the sites they find in order of "relevance", which is determined by
1) whether or not the site is sponsored
2) how popular the site is
3) how many times the search phrase actually appears on the page, and
4) probably half a dozen other things that I don't know about.

If you want to make THIS site relevant to the search phrase "Dahn Yoga", keep posting as usual, but simply start referring to the organization as Dahn Yoga instead of Dahnhak. It'll take time, but the site will eventually get on the map for that search. You might also mention to RickRoss that the name of the website has changed.

Having said that, some of you might conclude that posting annoying, repetitive messages with "Dahn Yoga" in it over and over again would help in some way. It really wouldn't, because
1) Spam is BAD, mm'kay
2) Google doesn't just link to the site, it shows what's written there. If we're actually TALKING about Dahn Yoga, and not posting meaningless drivel, people are more likely to click it.
3) It makes the board very hard to read, not to mention ticking off whomever may be moderating this board.

Just something to think about. But keep the conversation going!

And hi there. *waves to SAH*

By DAHNBUSTER on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 09:26 pm:

Did you join? You have to join myspace to log in.
No worries, Just name and a (throwaway) email addy. No spam.

Go here:

http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Join

There's a whole sub-culture I was unaware of.
Twinkies. AAA. Have you all heard any of this?

By do wo me no mo on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:50 pm:

thanks stilla healer. very interesting.
and Dahn buster. I do not know ho to log in, I have tried twice.
I will try again Sorry

By DAHNBUSTER on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:36 pm:

I know, I know...
I can't stand to be ignored (Leo), even if it's in my own imagination.
But that just makes for a better DAHNBUSTER!!!
RRRRRAAAAAWWWWWRRRRRRRRR!

SPEAKING OF GOOGLE, TRY THIS:
GOOGLE SEARCH THE WORD FAILURE.
HIT THE FIRST LINK THAT POPS UP.
HUH? ARE YOU ALL THINKING WHAT I'M THINKING?
I know how they did it. (The Anti-Bush peeps)

Stilla, STTTTTTTTTTIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLAAA!
(streetcar named desire)
ROFLMAO, (roll on the floor laugh my ass off)

<3
D.B.

By Stillahealer on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 07:22 pm:

When someone asks a question I think we all think everyone else answers. When this came up before some poster got in a corective snit about the exact location etc. Before I answered I went to my old friend Google

Now I am ROMAL at Dahnbuster

By DAHNBUSTER on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 07:15 pm:

DOH! Stillahealer I was typing the same time you were!
NEW YORK! THANK YOU! NOW I CAN FIND IT.
You are the beloved Tabitha, thank you.

SHALOM,
DAHNBUSTER

By DAHNBUSTER on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 07:09 pm:

Am I typing in invisible fonts?
Am I out of "the clique" because I defended
DahnMember?
If you're dead serious about stopping this deadly cult,everybody, STOP ACTING HIGH-SCHOOL!!
I asked where is Westchester. Pleeeeze don't tell me to do a damn search-engine "if I really want to know" because I did, and there's only about 8000 Westchester's in American. And I don't even know if it's in America or Canada!

Listen, I've sent the (pertinent) e-mail newslinks to everybody I was in healer school with, about 40 people. I'm also sending out I.M.'S to the Native Arizonans on myspace, to see if they have got "home-turf" info which I can share here. DAHN IS TARGETING THE COLLEGE CAMPUSES? WELL, MUCHACAS, SO AM I.....!!!

I'm Dahn-busting my ass off over here!
I don't expect any Kudos from you all, but a Civil reply would be appreciated.

Do we share a common goal? YES!
Will Jealousy and competition achieve said goal?
NO!

I here-by apologize and call a truce with each and every one of you that I may ever offended in order that we may work together peacefully and to accomplish our primary collective objective.

WE NEED A MEETING OF THE MINDS! Everyone is going their own way, that's good! It's like the Apostles
of Jesus, they didn't mope around in Jerusalem and "woe is me" to each other indefinitely.

They GOT OUT AND SPREAD THE GOSPEL!!!
I'm going out to the uneducated masses, like Paul.
MKD: Writing is his forte, let him con't writing to the Media. He's like The Apostle whom Jesus loved, JOHN!
Dahnmember: She's like Peter, who STAYED IN JERUSALEM and started the Church there.
Also, Our double secret agent. VERY MUCH NEEDED!
(F.Y.I., PETER WAFFLED A LOT BETWEEN JUDAISM AND THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM, AS YOU WELL KNOW!)
Mouse: The Peacemaker on this Board, probably the most important ministry of all. archtype: the Apostle James, beloved Brother of the Lord.
Stillahealer: The beloved Tabitha, aka Dorcas, who stayed put but very much gave 100% unconditional love and supported the Disciples.
Each one of you have a part. Pick your Patron Saint and follow their lead. Non-Christians; find your true calling, and JUST DO IT!
There may even be an archtype of Judas here.
Hey, He too had a part to play...

Each one of us has a job to do.

Example: There are others here who bravely shared their email addys to help others. Group response: NONE!

YOU WERE ALL INVITED TO JOIN MY GROUP about 7 times:
http://groups.myspace.com/DAHNBUSTERS
One person from here has joined.

P.S. I am not a Fundamentalist Christian, but the Analogy of the Acts of the Apostles is just too hard to resist.

United we stand,
Divided we fall.
Stop the Hate, Start the Love.

Sorry to sound "preachy"
Now, where in the Hell in Westchester?

DAHNBUSTER

By Stillahealer on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 06:29 pm:

Dahnbuster; Google New York Map. Then click on Westchester County. Mostly bedroom high income communities outside New York City

By fresh-ex on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 06:01 pm:

anon 2:29 i am not playing games. i am dead serious about the dangers of this organization. that is why i get frustrated with someone giving out advice, semi-bashing dahn, and then going to class. give me a break.
and i personally do think this is a forum for helping people leave dahn.
i saw ANOTHER member today. this one was robotic complacent and smug. but i did my best. and i will never give up. and i am going to the papers as soon as i get back from visiting my family. no more nicey nice. this little chapter of dahn is going to be shutting their doors. soon
thanks for your encouragement SAH
way to go MKD- that is awesome!

By Dahn member on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 06:01 pm:

really?
how do you guys know these meetings are being held...
and if you don't mind, what areas do you know of that are having these meetings?

if you don't want to tell, that's ok, but i doubt anyone could ID you, with 80% of the people on here posting as "anonymous"

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 04:58 pm:

sorry, both postings re NewDahn are mine.
I thought I had canceled the first one.

By DAHNBUSTER on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 04:51 pm:

Question:
Where in the Hell is Westchester, anyway?
Sign me,
Geographically Impaired.

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 04:50 pm:

Some masters in my area are definetly reading
and discussing New Dahn website.

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 04:44 pm:

I know of one area where a special meeting was
called for healers and up to discuss and deny
NewDahn website. So......
they definitely are checking.

By Dahn member on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 03:22 pm:

Anon 2:58-
you should be wary of your master, because it could, very well be one of their tricks, but remember this- Dahn masters are still human beings and are still capable of having feelings. Many masters have left Dahnhak. The masteres have been far more brainwashed than most regular members, but I wouldn't be surprised to meet a few here and there who are questioning Dahnhak as well. I'm sure a lot of them are now aware of all the allegations and people speaking out, and maybe they're starting to question it themselves.

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 02:58 pm:

Anon- Thank you for your insight.
It's been a few days now that I have been mulling this over in my head and I really can;t believe that I have spendt so much time thinking about this craziness. I am not sure if I am going to quiet all together or just finish out my membership. I am an extremely strong minded person and have a huge support system (spouse,family and friends. I have a successful job and wonderful hobbies. Yes I have gone through tradgedy in the past few years and this was something that I deciced to do for me. This obvioulsy wasn't the answer. I have many mixed emotions besides feeling, hurt, silly, angry and confused. I think my "master" truly may be feeling the same way. I think he/she is struggling with her/his own emotions and has confided in me with out telling me the specifics. who knows. Maybe that's a part of their tricks as well. It's not going to work.

By DAHNBUSTER on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 02:50 pm:

Cheers, Fellow Farmers! (seed-planters)
MKD: Kudos to you! Your letter to NDW was concise and well-written! I'm on pins and needles to see if NDW starts slowly back-peddling from Ill-Chi. What's the betting?
To my dear DAHNMEMBER, GUURL, If you have the CHUTZPAH to stay in Dahn and work both sides, I think you are worth your weight in GOLD! Maybe you're not as fragile as I was, I truly had to "piss or get off the pot" because I am so easily mind-effed. A one-year Gold Star Membership flushed down the loo...
You THINK you are crazy, that's a bad thing?? Just be crazy like a FOX. WE (DAHNBUSTERS) need you. ALL HANDS ON DECK!
Where in the Hell is Andrew Nevis? He's got friends at media.
Mouse is back, thank God, now we can organize and think-tank.
And, on the lighter side of life: THERE'S NO NEED TO FEAR; SANTE GNOME IS HERE!!! (from myspace)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
santa gnome helping bust cult. is dahn offer presents? no, stretch first then control accounting checks. santa gnome brings presents never brainwash, unlike cucumber veggie god.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ROFLMAO!
BO, NOW DAHNBUSTER

By Stillaahealer on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 02:42 pm:

Do wo no mo

I know they are promoting some articles written about the benefits of Dahn. It is titled "Something Worth Reading"

Guess nothing written here or other truth telling sites are worth reading according to Dahn Yoga

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 02:29 pm:

"that is essentially what this is for- to help people leave."

I don't agree, fresh-ex. For me it's a place for people to answer the question of the title: "Does anyone have the scoop on Healing Society/Dahn Institute?" This means facts, testimonials, discussion, documents, and a variety of opinions. Not a place for games. This board loses credibility if people make up stories, whether they are for dahn or against it, or in-between.

By do wo no mo on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 02:01 pm:

Has anyone heard anything from the inside about how the articles in Westchester have impacted Dahn?

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 11:02 am:

That was addressing "Dahn Member."

anon 11:01

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 11:01 am:

You make a lot of sweeping accusations against this forum and the people here just from a little backlash. I for one have no problem with your sitting on the fence about dahn; that's your problem if you can't make the decision whether or not to stay away from what you yourself call a "cult" and after you yourself described the slavery of the Korean master who couldn't even visit with her sister. I am sure you are not a "plant" for dahn; that seems far-fetched. No, I think you planted yourself here to make us try to convince you to get out of dahn, screaming for help and laying out all your mental disabilities like you're a textbook case of a dahn target. Now suddenly you are "closed" in what you share and suddenly "open-minded" about dahn. Bi-polar? I don't think so. Game player? - perhaps.

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 09:48 am:

On their newly upgraded website they put "Dahn Yoga" as the official name. When new members do google "Dahn Yoga" to research, they will not likely land onto one of the anti-Dahn sites, whereas "Dhanhak" will give them one of the Rick Ross pages on the first result page. How do we bring RickRoss or this message board readily available to people who search/google "Dahn Yoga"?

By mkd on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 09:09 am:

Hey!
Here is a link, an email address which NDW says he reads every email, it is for his weekly newsletter where he responds to his redaders questions, I think everyone should send him a letter to let him know how screwed up his biz with lee is. Email at weeklybulletinresponse@cwg.org

Here is a piece of my letter to him:

However in Tomorrows God you offer the works of other "notable authors," who are worth reading, one of which is Ilchi Lee, author and founder of Dahnhak & Brain Respiration. Neale, I have lost an enormous amount of respect for you and your organization by continually endorsing this man and his organization. His book, "Healing Society" and others I believe are being published thru you or some company affiliated with you. I would like to know what are you thinking about? Do you know the real truth of what is behind this man and his organization? You have gone from speaking simple truths which are lovely, beautiful, and yes even disturbing and at best challenging to working directly with some one who is out for NO ONE but himself! Please do not start telling me that by helping yourself you help all because "We are All One", because by that same preface you and he should give me the keys to his various homes around the world so that I may be able to bask in the luxury he can afford because of me and thousands of others money spent in pursuit of enlightenment. I would love to debate you on the many items you will reflect upon me and you know what? I know them all and at least used to hold them in my heart because I have studied your books, ALL of them at least twice!
It is through your recommendation I checked out Lee and devoted myself to the practice of Dahnhak so much so as to make this path my own so that I too may indeed help change the world and to "be The Hope of Humanity." It got me no where except slowly being pulled in "unwillingly" to some extent into a religion, a religion they don't talk to you about when you sign up for some fun yoga classes. A religion where Lee is at the forefront and where he is the messiah, the 48th Dangun.
I do believe in your 5 steps to peace,theoretically, but realistically it can never work because we do indeed live an the relative world and a world of absolute peace and harmony cannot happen in this realm although many have spent their lives in pursuit, however noble, it cannot happen. If you wish to try you have my blessings, BUT:
STEER CLEAR OF THIS MAN ILCHI LEE, HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING EXCEPT INFLATING HIS OWN PERCEPTION OF HIMSELF AND "HIS WORLD" AND TAKING EVERYONES $$ AND LIVES IN THE PROCESS.
PERHAPS HIS INTENTIONS WERE REAL, CLEAR, AND NOBLE IN THE BEGINNING BUT MUCH LIKE MANY OTHERS IN THE PAST (JIM JONES PERHAPS?) HE HAS BECOME ENAMORED WITH FALSE POWER, FALSE TEACHINGS, AND HIS OWN DESTRUCTIVE EGO.
Feel free to contact me and let me know what you think and any questions you may have. Please I hope you use this on your weekly bulletin, at least it can show the level of TRANSPARENCY you are so willing to disclose.

Sincerely & Honestly,

By Stillahealer on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:39 am:

Congratulations Fresh ex. You have planted the seeds. Getting people out one at a time that is all we can hope for. When I first left I did not have the courage to tell members I met on the street the real reasons for my leaving. I wanted to still believe that they did some good for some people especially those who went just for the exercise. Now I tell them the truth and refer them to this site and other sites that tell the same story in many different ways.
I did not want to believe I could be so easily Scamed. As much as I loved the LOVE I was not willing to pay the price.

And welcome back Mouse; missed you

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:33 am:

I think DM is a bit confused and at the same time playing a game, not intentionally planned as a plant, but nevertherless unintentionally becoming one .

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:23 am:

People who know the reality of Dahn and yet do not have the courage to leave - I feel sorry for them. They either
1) insecure and lonely, don't have anythng better to do in life or anyone better to be with. Neither strong family tie, social life, nor stable, promising job. To those, what Dahn offers may be in fact better than nothing. The community of masters can give an appearance of comradeship and companionship. I.e. this is to escape the hard reality.

2) Self interst - Dahn takes these gullible young people and instill them with fake purpose and false pride. They enjoy this sense of superiority. Very dangerous. What they become is so far from being spiritually evolved. .... instead, they lost touch with their true self and common sense of the society, become puppets of Lee, thinking and behaving according to his programs.

By fresh-ex on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:21 am:

BM- oops i mean DM- i can't wait to see what you write next. i believe it was YOU that came on this board and started jumping on people right away. remember saying something like why do you people put so much negative energy into this? you don't like it just go away?
i think that was you, wasn't it?
we have watched other people on the board struggle, then come to their senses and leave dahn. that is essentially what this is for- to help people leave. but nobody is forcing you. that would take one powerful keyboard. but whenever you say something lame or insulting you always blame your bi polar, or your waistline or something. if you are wondering why people react to you, its because of YOUR postings. go back and read them. i personally think you are a plant (and i'm not talking about dahlias, my friends). it happens regularly. i don't care. people change. make up. leave. whatever. i think if you had read the entire board, DM, you'd leave Dahn. maybe you should have a real lookie. nobody is condemning you- uh, how does one do that
read the board, and good luck
jeez i think i even asked you to keep writing when you first showed up and you were so insulting. if you aren't a plant, i really hope you get out of it. keep posting
on a better note- i had run into a current member a couple weeks ago and given her my card. well, she called me! and i think she is definitely leaving. it felt wonderful to help someone. she was sad- it is so very disappointing and can be hard to let go of, but i think she did it. i have only all of you to thank!!!!

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 07:48 am:

Bo,
In those Korean magazine articles, Lee flatly denies all counts of accusations made by JiHa Kim; namely, moeny, women, terror threats, Dahn being a religion, hypnotic training of masters with his picture, etc..

Of course, just like everything else surroundig Dahn there are different ways of reading his words. Lee is a grand master at controlling people's perception by playing with words with seemingly innocent pretense. That's why Dahn was able to grow as big as it is today. People are usually taken in by the superficial appearance of his words. Those people who who can take what Lee says at the face value do not have a mental capacity to discern what sounds good from what this person really is and does in real life.

By bead on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 07:48 am:

"I know you guys are going to continue to be paranoid"

It isn't paranoia, it is contempt, at least for me. Dahn and their ilk are obviously parasites feeding off of the weak minded and gullible. They take money and give nothing but lies and abuse in return. That is standard operating procedure for a "new religious" cult.

If the shoe fits...

By anon18 on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 05:22 am:

Anon 10:18.
I wouldn't suggest you tell your master that you're reading these sites. They have their prepared way of responding to criticism since anti-dahn movements have existed for long time ever since from Korea.

You must remain extremely mindful when you deal with them and guard yourself not to get further involved emotionally with individual masters. Instead of judging your master based on other people's opinions and experiences, be armed with an "awareness" and try to find out yourself what his/her real motivation is for getting close to you. This shouldn't be too difficult if you remain mindful and honest to yourself.

It's just very difficult to explain the psychological mind game they play with people. The -awareness- you need to have is the fact that they are looking for two things (in their own words) (1) Money and (2)People. You must have either money and/or are considered as a healer/master material or to be useful some way. The more you're a complelling target, the further they'll be willing to go in terms of the tactics they play. If you appear as a lonely person needing a girlfriend or boyfriend , they can even play that role for you if that's what it takes to draw you in. This person must be at a jwjn or higher level though.

Masters are very well trained and do think and behave like robots at a certain level of consciousness. (I cannot stop marvelling at Lee's ingeniousness for this! He is truely a smart man) Most of the masters are in their late 20's or 30's singles living and working together 24 hours a day. They must have been trained how to think about and deal with their sexual energy. This has been briefly mentioned in the "Suprise 1999 story". But ultimately it's based on your own perception and experience.

By Dahn member on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 03:21 am:

Thank you, Mouse.

I have not decided whether I'm leaving or not yet.
Most people would, indeed, like me to "shit or get off the pot" (I have people like you guys, who'd be happy if I left, but would rather not talk to me if I decided Dahn was my "destiny", then the people in Dahn who'd love me to either jump in completely with reckless abandon, or get the hell away for fear of my being "contagious" to other members). I've been greeted by reluctance and suspicion from both sides.

The truth is, I am not ready to make the decision.

A lot of people I've met in my life have taken me for being stupid, because of a lot of decisions I've made, but I've found that the only mistakes I've made were when I listened to someone else instead of myself.
This goes for Dahn, too.
Even if I stay in it, they know (and they've seen proof) that they can't force me to do anything, and they know very well now not to try.

I know you guys are going to continue to be paranoid, but I'd just like to clearly state my intentions. You may choose to believe me or not.

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 01:41 am:

Mouse is right. Sorry Dahn Member.

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 01:26 am:

Well said, Mouse!

By Mouse on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 12:42 am:

...Aw, not more snarking. Remember, everyone has a different experience that brings them to this board. Some people wake up one morning and go "wow, this is a cult!" and quit cold-turkey. Others agonize over the issue for weeks before making a decision... and like it or not, some actually decide that Dahn is worthwhile for them. (We have examples of all three on this board.) But I doubt that anyone HERE condones pressuring others to commmit and conform ;) so please try to respect peoples' decision-making processes, no matter how confused or wishy-washy you may think them. If you suspect that a poster is being dishonest in some way, just ignore their posts--it takes two hands to clap. ;)

Dahn member: my two cents (haha, they didn't get ALL my money!) is that people just aren't sure how to read you; some of the things you joke about are things that some others on the board would take seriously, while the things that you ARE saying in all seriousness are things that many people would NOT seriously reveal. We're just getting to know you (as much as we can "know" anyone on an anonymous message board), so try to be patient with the shy/suspicious posters. ;)

Good to hear from you again, MKD, and I hope you're well.

Thanks, everyone. Please keep posting.

By BoPeepa.k.a.DAHNBUSTER on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 10:49 pm:

NEWSFLASH!
Does ANYBODY here READ KOREAN? Ms. Moon at newdahn was gracious to send me these links:

http://www.donga.com/docs/magazine/new_donga/9912/nd99120420.html
http://www.hani.co.kr/h21/data/L991018/1pauaifr.html

They are press-conferences of Ill-Chi's reaponse when Jiha Kim dissed him publicly.

THE FOLLOWING IS AN F.Y.I.
It is one of my new friends at MySpace, he is a 26 year old Native Korean man. Listen to His personal opinion on the subject:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
oh man it sounds like ur out to fuck up this dahnhak stuff, i'm korean and i've never heard of it but then again i'm kind of a twinkie ha. well anyway yeah the whole thing sounds like a typical korean scam, all i have to say is always be careful when a korean organization asks for "donations" haha. i don't have any knowledge on other organizations but i always turn down korean ones, too many scams which is unfortunate for the legit ones. well anyways thanx for the add if u ever wanna chat i'm on aim sometimes, screenname is (blanked out for privacy)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Feedback, anybody???
Bo

By Mouse on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 09:55 pm:

*waves and lights an extra love-bomb for fresh-ex*

Between moving to a new place (and losing my internet for 2 weeks) and a week of vacation (getting rained on somewhere on the West Coast), I haven't been online much. Still here, though! I'll read up and catch up tonight.

By Dahn member on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 09:42 pm:

split personality routine?

i don't recall blowing people off.
i'm saying "oh please" at the people who are so paranoid to think that they're being monitored.
i made that "i'm trapped in their dungeons" joke because of that. it was SARCASM. i mean, come on, a gag order? ha.

besides, i'm willing to help people who are still in dahn and want advice since i've come to terms with everything i've read by now.

BoPeep was right when she called you guys out on alienating someone and driving them back into the "warm fuzzyness" of a cult.
I'd rather nicely help someone through email than scare them by acting harsh on a message board.
Acting like this is only going to make (a lot of) the current questioning members think the whole lot of you are psycho militants or something.
That's how you come off to someone who is naive or fragile. And I might just be that, but I'm also smart and I have a good BS detector.

"Some of us know a faker when we see one."
What exactly am I faking?
I don't recall making any claims and then lying about them.

But then again, this is an anonymous message board, and nobody knows for sure who here is real or who is fake.

My having a 'different' (strange, whatever you might want to call it) personality does not do anything to change my position. So you're free to judge me how I want. That doesn't change anything.
You're trying to move people to conform to what YOU think is right.
That alienates people as well- this board is a bit cult-ish as well, if you ask me.

Go on talking, though.
There's no sense in bickering or trying to throw insults at me.
I offered help, and that's more than you can say for yourself.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 08:55 pm:

Some of us know a faker when we see one.

This isn't a support group, even if there are some pure hearts here who reach out to try to help people - no one can see each other and no one has to be held accountable because of all the anonymity; I only know how you come off, and I for one don't think you sound for real. How supportive is it of you to cry out for HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!! and then to blow people off with your split personality routine. People here have had enough mind games, don't you think?

By Dahn member on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 07:36 pm:

and i believe i say:
"i dont give a shit what people say"

you guys are not much of a support group at all.
actually, i believe most of you are acting selfishly on your own emotions rather than earnestly trying to help people.

By fresh-ex on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 07:28 pm:

dahmmember- i believe in england they say "shit or get off the pot"

By fresh-ex on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 07:24 pm:

dear dahn member- ever heard of a fence sitter?

By Dahn member on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 04:38 pm:

oh please...

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 04:18 pm:

"i can tell you how they are acting now"
The key word here is Acting.

By Forewarned on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 03:59 pm:

WARNING.
Be very careful with whom you share personal information via private email. Dahn World is truly small. Each member especially those who are Targeted as a FIND are discussed at length with action plans to draw one in. Some people believe there are plants on this board.
Paranoid 1000

By Dahn member on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 02:07 pm:

Hey anon just below me, and those who are still in dahn and just beginning to feel "hurt" and finding stuff out, you can e-mail me at dahn_member@yahoo.com because i'm still in too but i have read just about every article but still remain in the group so i can tell you how they are acting now, opposed to the people who have already left.
I still want to be able to see both sides.
It disappoints me when people think all in black and white.
Yeah I know some people are going to hate on me for even saying that but oh well, get over it. I refuse to let bitterness and anger take over my emotions and actions toward others.

To the person who asked about Initial Awakening:
Well mostly it's about focusing on your physical body, no real cult-like aspects at all from what I experienced, except for the fact that it's totally not worth how much you pay.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 10:18 am:

My feeling of hurt is from reading this board as well as rickross. I haven't yet spoken to my master and I am not sure what the next step is. Like I mentioned we became close...
any suggestions?

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 10:16 am:

Can someone tell me about initial awakening?

By Anon18 on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 09:20 am:

Anon 9:00 am.
Is your feeling of hurt and duped due to reading this board (i.e. second hand information), or becuase of your direct personal experience with your master? Asking because I can relate to your statement about getting "too close" to your master and being "confused" and not knowing what to think of their interest in you.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 09:04 am:

I can understand completely, mkd, and I only care because...I care. I remember some people attacked you and I don't think that was right. (but it wasn't "dahndroids" who treated you badly, it was the opposite, it was the antidahns). I just wondered, as you look back now and after some months have gone by, what has made you turn around so completely in your feelings about Dahn. You went from loving it so much, but with some incling that there was a cult, to now denouncing dahn clearly and even wondering what your life would have been like if you had never gone there.

You talked a LOT about your two children and your wife and so I just wondered how things worked out afterall with your family, that's all. If you don't feel comfortable sharing personal things here, I don't blame you at ALL. (We are all "anonymouses" here, even when people use a user-name.) With that, I wish you well.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 09:00 am:

This is horrible. It was recently brought to my attention what Dahn is all about. I was like most of you a member who walked into the center with good intentions of being healthy and taking care of me. I loved then work out and eveyone was so nice. I found it very interesting how everyone had taken an interest in me and my life. I became very close with my master, actually too close. I confided in him about many of my life experiences.

I feel hurt and sad. I feel duped and silly. I feel confused because part of me doesn't want to stop but I can't practice this way. This is unhealthy and sick.

It's unfortunate that this is this way. I feel saddened by the deceit of my Master.

By Stillahealer on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 08:03 am:

Amen to MKD

By mkd on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 05:26 am:

I dont want to sound rude or harsh but I have written extensively on my reasons for exiting. I refuse to respond to questions such as yours coming from an "anonomys" person. There are w/out a doubt a number of perople on this board who are full of sh*t and are what some would refer to as dahndroids working from w/in. There are only a few people here, you know who you are whom I feel comfortable responding directly and personally with. Ohter than that I have made the mistake previously on outing certain facts.....so I dont know what you're talking about with hopeful and all that.,

By Anonymous on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 06:15 pm:

MKD, are you the same person as "Hopeful" who defended Dahn not too long ago, the one who changed his name to MyKidsDad? If so, you have made a 180 degree turn-about. How are you doing now with your wife and kids?! What do you think turned you around so much on Dahn?

By Anonymous on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 03:35 pm:

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050807/NEWS12/508070310/-1/spider

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050807/NEWS02/508070311/-1/spider

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050807/NEWS12/508070312/-1/spider

By MKD on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 03:01 pm:

Dahn sucks. Literally, they suck your $$ away from you, suck you away from your family, suck away all your time and energy so you have nothing left to give other than what you have done for them all day, day after day. Stay away. I often wonder how my life would be right now if i never set foot into my center. I feel so horrible for my few friends who are still so far gone, sucked in they really are losing it. I actually think one of my friends is being told by jwjn to get "close" with me to get me back in. Too weird to actually explain but I have my reasons. Keep it real!

By Dahn member on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 02:06 pm:

Wow, you're exactly right. My master does remind me of an abused wife. I had never thought of it like that.

I don't know why I'm "manic" or whatever. I have bipolar disorder but I don't think that's an excuse. I think I just have a crazy, sarcastic personality.

Clockwork-
It makes me wonder why that guy would go to EVERY CLASS and roll his eyes the whole time even though he knew it was bad.
Do you think he was just there to help people like you? If so, wow, that takes balls, and patience!

Anon just below me: did you become aware of this through the center or through the internet?
Please share your experiences, if you feel comfortable, and pick a name to call yourself so we know how to tell you apart from the other "anons",

By Anonymous on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 01:53 pm:

Dahn Member, I just want you to know that I totally understand. I am having a lot of the same feeling and emotions right now. I actually have been a member for about 6 months and today was the first day that it was brought to my attention about the cult like tendencies of DAhn. I have been questioning this for a long time but have just read some postings and a bunch of articles and testomonies re: Dahn being a cult.

By clockwork on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 07:42 am:

EXACTLY!! Anon, well put, that is just what I meant, always looking when it is all right in front of us.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 07:38 am:

looking for something, when we already have everything.

By clockwork on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 06:41 am:

As Human Beings we are all looking for something aren't we and we always will, this is what keeps the Human Race moving foward. Interesting.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 05:57 am:

Clockwork- It is so so sad. Caring for a person who in many ways is like a drug addict or an emotionally disturbed abused wife. They like the safety of the dominance.
Masters enjoy the chaos and the petty mind games of the commune homes. Masters do not have to deal with petty things like paying heat bills.
Although masters do have to worry and obsess about everything else?

At least the Krishnas get to hang out at the park playing drums.

Don member - This is what your manic about leaving?

By clockwork on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 04:15 am:

Okay all, lets not get annoyed or angry with one another, we all know who we should be angry at, that is of course, DR LEE. It seems we all have such different ways of expressing ourselves and expressing our hurt. It does not seem to me that anyone is purposely trying to offend anyone, it is a tough time for all. I remember earlier in my posts I was angry and bitter, also quite sarcastic, but I got over it, you all will, it only takes time.
Freshex, to answer your question I was involved in Dahn for three months maybe four months. I loved Dahn and I loved my master. She was an American girl who was my age and I could relate to her so well. I then realized Dahn was sucking up my life and realized they wanted to isolate me and expected me to leave my loved ones behind. When I heard these type of comments I got really scared. Also there was a mysterious guy involved in Dahn, he went to every class, but he would always be rolling his eyes throughout the class. Anyway, one day he pulled me aside and asked me "what is your obligation to this group, I hope you are aware that you are exactly what they are looking for, be careful all they want is your cash." Thanks to him I left that day and never went back. I talked to my master on the phone and told her the truth about how I think Dahn is a scam and they only want my money. I never heard from her again, but I still see her all the time, I live right near the center. I feel sorry for her, she could have a life of her own, she is stunningly beautiful also, so caring. She could have so much more. It is sad.

By fresh-ex on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 03:37 am:

Clockwork- how long were you a member? what happened that inspired you to leave?

By don jon on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 07:13 pm:

So what happened in the Westchester centers? I am dying to know? Does anyone have any insider info?
Please.

By Dahn member on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:38 pm:

"glib"... been talking to tom cruise?

By Dahn member on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:33 pm:

I don't think you know what multiple personality disorder IS.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:55 pm:

I didn't say anything about anyone faking the paranoia of leaving a cult.

People were sincerely trying to help to a person who sounded seriously disturbed, and they were met with glib (not funny) answers and a complete change in the personality of the poster.

I'm afraid this list suffers from a multiple personality disorder.

By BoZo on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:41 pm:

Anonymous on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 08:18 am: "QUOTE"
Some people can sense a fake.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ever hear this one?
It takes one to know one?

Accuse someone of faking the paranoia and "Rocky Mountain High" they feel when leaving a cult will make them running back to the arms of said cult, with all its' warm-fuzzies. "You need Professional help" is just an hypocritical put-down of the worst sort. These times are very real and frightening. We need support, which is why we're coming here.
No preaching, no scolding, no judging, no "buy this book"ing; just SUPPORT, okay? The strongest help the weaker ones until they get stronger. He's not heavy, he's my Brother (or Sister..)

If one can't catch wit and cynicism in type; well, so much for Sir Francis Bacon and William Shakespeare!!
Humour as a coping skill (whilst kicking oneself in one's ass) is HEALTHY, Malice toward another is NOT.
I'm embarrassed to see all the negativity, projection and displacement. Please realize that Dahnmember's DUALITY AND FRAGILITY is part of the Deal. P.T.S.D.? That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
Please let's be civil to one another, or the Board will deteriorate beyond repair.
I am linking it to my site.
CHEERS, i.e., be FILLED WITH CHEER,
That's a Blessing!

BoPeep

P.S. I know I've said my Fare-thee-Wells, but I still plan to check back here for news; this site is WHERE IT'S AT as far as investigative reporting goes.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
What about the Yahoo site?
That's a great idea, how's it coming?
Let me know if you need any help.

By CLOCKWORK on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 11:22 am:

FRESH EX THAT IS SUCH A GOOD POINT YOU MADE. I WAS SO ANGRY ABOUT DAHN UP UNTIL ABOUT A MONTH AGO. YES I LOST A LOT OF MONEY AND THAT KILLS ME BUT I LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT MYSELF, I LEARNED SO MUCH ABOUT OTEHR PEOPLE, IT WAS QUITE AN EXPERIENCE ALL AROUND AND I AM PROUD I HAVE IT UNDER MY BELT NOW, NOT MANY PEOPLE CAN SAY THAT. WHAT I MEAN IS NOT MANY PEOPLE CAN BE SUCKED INTO A CULT SO FAST AND FURIOUSLY AND THEN GET THEMSELVES OUT JUST AS QUICK, IT IS A STRONG FEAT A HUGE STRENGTH THAT I KNOW I HAVE, WELL WE ALL HAEV ON THIS BOARD.

By fresh-ex on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 09:56 am:

dahn member- when i left dahn, one of the members clung to me, calling me several times a day, worried that i would "abandon" her. well, she ended up abandoning me! she just dropped off the radar one day. i found out she went to healer school, and never called me again. she had no friends outside dahn. but she made no effort to change anything, and lost me too.
the sooner you let them go the better, and realize now that they have no hold on you. they can't hurt you. i was scared at first. i'm fine now. i am actually glad this happened to me because i learned so much about myself.
green goos never worked for me. i separated proteins and fats from carbs and lost over 60 lbs in one year. sounds cheesy, but its susanne somers books. they are based on diabetes research. don't associate dahn with your waistline. if you gained weight while being there though?? man, say bye bye
regarding humour issues- obviously we can't pick up sarcasm and joking through typing. it just confuses the other posters (me included). be clear, take this seriously and you won't upset people. it is very serious and i hope you take it seriously too. and sharing info on reading doesn't mean you have to buy a bunch of books (that would be dahnish). go to the library!!!!!

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 08:18 am:

Some people can sense a fake.

By BoPeep on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 11:00 pm:

Dearest Dahnmember,

I think this is hilarious: "I've crafted a makeshift computer from some wires I found underneath the bones in here."
I don't know why folks want to preach to you.
But it's NOT what you need right now, obviously.
I have no problem catching your humour; both you and I use humour as a defense mechanism.
(rather than malice)
When I first came to this message board I was dogged out, just like you. Probably by the same person/people. So I changed my name and came back as someone else, because I did need the Board to Reality Check with.
Now I think it's served its' purpose for me and it's time to move on.
Bring your wry wit where it will be appreciated:

http://groups.myspace.com/DAHNBUSTERS

It's got e-mail, I.M., Bulletins, Forums, you name it.
There's only one rule:
Everyone is to be treated with unconditional positive regard.
And I think you would have no problem in that regard.

Peace out, everyone,
BoPeep

~~Thanks for your constant support, suziecue and andrew nevis~~

By Andrew Nevis on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 10:21 pm:

Dahn member, we all enjoy humor, if it is well written There are members of this board, who take all this very seriously and so do keep that in mind. You can share jokes, but do make them apparent.

Have been informed of a new pop up blocker in Korea, it stops people from accessing this site. Any version of this in North America? Is this a coincidence?

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:35 pm:

wow some people have sticks up their asses.

you know, sometimes it helps to poke fun at things that have upset you, to make light of them.

that doesn't mean you can't still help people.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:05 pm:

You're now boring me dahn member. Now that you
realize what Dahnhak is about, get out, get help,
grow up. Put your clever mind to work on more
constructive, informative and helpful words.

By don jon on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:58 pm:

I think Dahn member just needs some TLC. It's okay. he /she is obviously going through difficult time.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:42 pm:

http://www.newdahn.com/usa
Check this site

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:41 pm:

http://groups.myspace.com/DAHNBUSTERS
Check this site.

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:22 pm:

Good bye Dahnmember. This is way too serious for your games.

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:19 pm:

I'm being held hostage in their dungeons.
I've crafted a makeshift computer from some wires I found underneath the bones in here.

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:12 pm:

What?? exdahnmember are you under a gag order? or are you doing counter inteligence??????
I am confused as usual.

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:08 pm:

You...PEOPLE...
you're almost as bad as them!
getting me to buy all these religion, spirituality, philosophy books, etc.

I'm already buying "The Spiritual Tourist" and "Heaven Within".
And that Discovery Channel video!

Fine, what else should I buy?

(P.s. if anyone wants info on these things like links or authors let me know)

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:03 pm:

to anon-
i'm not at liberty to disclose any more information at this point in time.

*looks around with shifty eyes*

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:03 pm:

I found this post on "groups," thru google. This was written back in April 2002.

"If everyone in the world would read the book MALDORER, the world would be
a much better place. Because it'd so neatly undermine the notion that
money-grubbing cult-promoters are the Messiah that by the sheer force of
its cynicism, even the bewildered would be less inclined to embrace the
Conversations Cult, Scientology, the latest tin god guru pretending to
godhead. I mean, like Rita here tosses out the Walsch cult not out of her
happiness to have embraced the moronic, but because she dislikes something
so much (this thread for instance) that she tells us she will never
comment on it, as she comment on it. So it was anger-inspired or
hate-inspired or at the very least disdain-inspired nonsense posing as
some sort of New Age positivity.

But when cheezily sentimental supernatural Self Help books for God Fearing
Teenagers become the answer to the world's problems, that's the same time
a lowland gorilla gets elected president & cows learn to fly.

Neale Donald Walsch is the key founder of a cultic organization calling
itself the New Millennium Peace Foundation which targets youths especially
in America and England. He is purely the L. Ron Hubbard type. He is also a
key associate of the Dahnist cult which promotes fraudulant alternative
medicine & persistantly demands donations. The cult's shared Declaration
of Humanity is nice enough as Mediocre Guru 101 stuff goes, but the
Reverand Sun Yun Moon & L. Ron Hubbard say some nice things too, while
undertaking their primary mission of raking in the bucks.

Walsch's co-conspirator in cult promotion is "Grand Master" Seung Heun Lee
about whom there is much reported by the Cult Awareness Network and by
Cult Watch. This self-styled Grand Master (Guru) has as his main "gags"
simpleminded promises of Global Enlightenment, Self-Healing, Martial Arts,
& money-grabbing. His publisher in America is -- ta da! -- the crackpot I
Talk To God wacko Neale Donald Walsch. Plus Walsch gives the Grand Master
top billing at the New Millenium Peace Foundation. And Seung returns the
favor promoting Walsch at all Dahn Hak cult events.

Dahn Hak poses as a fitness & health & martial arts system and grabs
willy-nilly from Chinese Taoist and Japanese Zen traditions (as did L. Ron
Hubbard) to form a sometimes-nice-seeming snare. Most of Seung's more
highly placed Conversion Force, called "the little masters," are South
Koreans who have themselves signed over all their worldly goods to Seung,
and abandoned their families. You can buy something called "Universal
Energy" from these people for only $150 (for starters). As one victim of
the cult said, "They could sell you your own toenails."

Here is a collection of links:
http://www.rickross.com/groups/dti.html
all about Dahn Hak high pressure tactics & their thoroughly cultic
activities. Remember, Neale "Conversations with God" Walsch is the main
publisher of Master Seung Hueng Lee's cult-promoting drivel; Seung in turn
persistently promotes for Walsh the Conversations With God Foundation; &
the two cult leaders run the New Millennium Peace Foundation together.
They really are the L. Ron Hubbard wannabe working in tandem with the Sun
Yun Moon wannabe, & as cheapy-ass imitations of the originals, they have
much less chance of improving the world than Hubbard & Moon have had.

These evil men target children. Teenagers & runaways are very important to
them. All of Walsh's "Conversations" books in particular are addressed to
children & preposterously invent wisdoms from the mouths of children
(which quotations frequently turn out to be plagiarised from other books &
not from teenagers at all). Once on the "inside" of the three main arms of
this cult (Dahnist cult, Whirled Peas foundation, & Conversations
foundation), the kids are converted into beggers who go out into the world
peddling for high prices Conversations With God cut materials and
Universal Energy. Walsch's main teaching is that there is no Good and no
Evil, that even Hitler went to Heaven. It is at least libertine & doesn't
require the teenagers to get off drugs or reconnect with their family
(indeed, the opposite is true). Full acceptance. Cool. But if your begging
in Walsh's behalf fails, or you are disobedient, you get punished by the
Little Masters of the Way.

Walsch has been confronted in interviews with his direct plagiarisms &
close paraphrases in the Conversations books of material previously in
books by James Redfield, Marianne Williamson, Wayne Dyer, & other New Age
wackos. Walsh had a ready answer: "They talked to God too. Of course we
say the same things." Williamson is a "channeler" who wrote her book
"Return to Love" after communicating with supernatural agents, & she runs
an extensive cult organization of her own. Redfield promotes moral
relativism which is were the permissiveness of Walsch's "Even Hitler Went
to Heaven" Converstions �ult originates. Redfield is the author of the
totally loony-toons "Celestine Prophecy" popular within many cheesy cults
whose founders can't write a good enough gospel of their own, but it seems
to be Redfield himself is only promoting his own magical beliefs & wacky
take on transcendentali8sm, & really only wants to sell the books. So he's
just a crank, not an evil crank like Walsch, Seung, or Williamson who want
ALL your money ALL your obedience and ALL your children, within a cult
framework. The real point though is that Walsh wasn't even clever enough
to write his own crap, he had to steal the best bits from smarter
crackpots than himself.

Not until you realize the financial interconnectedness with the Dahn Hak
cult does Walsch's underlying purpose become clear. He otherwise just
looks like a tin-plated philosopher with a cartoon take on God pretending
to be from God's own mouth. L. Ron Hubbard's first couple books were just
self-help generic crap too, but he too had the construction of a
world-wide profit-making pseudoreligious empire in mind from the start.

Will any New Age Guru Cult Master REALLY someday be the salvation of the
world? Not bloody likely. But if a True Messiah does rise out all that
assinine bullshit, he or she won't have Walsch, Seung, Conversations, or
Dahnism attached. And my advice to Rita is RUN! ESCAPE! GET OUT! before
you're so convinced of it that you end up a Volunteer Mini-Master sucking
the brains out of teenage sadsacks & raking in the bucks for your false
messiah without even minimum wage to show for it."
by paghat

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:02 pm:

I thought Hawkins' other book, "Power vs. Force" was a Dahnhak book?

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 06:57 pm:

quote: THEY FOUND OUT IT WAS ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you know this, putting all paranoia aside?

What happened with the master whose sister was coming to town? Just curious.

Why do you keep going there? Don't go there anymore and then it won't matter that they are on to you.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 06:26 pm:

Sorry for the spelling mistake on the Author's name. I strongly suggest to every ex-dahn member to read David Hawkins book: "The eye of the I". It healed my heart and soul, and it washed away all Dahn's false teaching. You can order it through Barnes and Noble, or order it direct from the publisher on line at "www.veritaspub.com" It is alot faster if you order it through Barnes and Noble though.

Love to all

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 06:09 pm:

To those who have access to Newdahn website, could you please copy and paste the rest of the 1999 Master story on this site? Thank you.

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 06:07 pm:

i've been diagnosed with almost the entire book as well.
but no, i actually gained weight since i started dahn.

i think eating green goo is better than being anorexic though, no?

p.s. i think i have an odd sense of humor. i don't seem to make sense, ever.
of course i'm british...??

but seriously
THEY FOUND OUT IT WAS ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i'm so paranoid right now!

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 06:02 pm:

Please let me know how do you open Newdahn's website? I only get question marks. Thanks.

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 05:57 pm:

Heh Bo.
Its the calm before the storm. The seeds have been planted now we have to wait for them to grow.
Patience my dear. And I like your Dahnbusters site, even if I feel lost there.
Stay cool and focus on your WHATEVER.
Have a great weekend. Its happening.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 05:32 pm:

"I believe Dahnmember was being facetious."

Oh. Sorry Dahn Member. But if you do need help with an eating disorder, please do get professional help, not Dahn crap. Man do I feel mad at that whole Dahn thing!!

By HealerNoMore on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 04:10 pm:

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 02:47 pm:

anyone want to sell me their green dahn weight loss goo?

Try: www.greenfoods.com or www.drdavesbest.com

These are real supplements and not some ripoff product sold by the cult of greed.

Do a google search for health food. dahns stuff probably won't be found.

By BoPeep on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 03:56 pm:

Sweeties,
I believe Dahnmember was being facetious. She has a great (sort of British) sense of humour.
I've been diagnosed with the entire D.S.M. IV, and I still manage to maintain...

WHAT NEWS? Any more links?? What of the lawsuit?
NEWS NEWS NEWS! I NEED NEWS!

Chins UP!!
BoPeep

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 03:31 pm:

So what are you saying, Dahn Member, that you want to take Dahn's weight loss sh.t?!

You need professional help. Go get it. You said you were had a lot of serious problems before you went to Dahn, and now you know it's a destructive cult, so get away from it, including their weight loss "goo" and get some real help for you life challenges.

That's my advise, take it for whatever it's worth, coming from a stranger on an Internet list.

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 02:47 pm:

anyone want to sell me their green dahn weight loss goo?
my friend said it tastes like ass but he lost weight.

By clockwork on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 05:50 am:

Dahn Member, I wish you the best, I can understand where you are right now. I did all the same type of things you mention before I joined Dahn, so when I realized Dahn was phony I felt so betrayed, I felt as though I had no ability to see or know what was real and what was fake. I felt so lost, like all of the decisions I have ever made were bad and wrong. This of course is not true, think of what a strong, smart person you are to even realize what Dahn really is and you are getting yourself out. Not many people can do this in cults, only the strong end up seeing the truth and getting themselves out, you ARE doing that, therefore you are strong and do have control. Also don't feel shame for being involved in Dahn, it is only human nature to be drawn to things that releive our pain. You are strong and I give you credit, give yourself credit you deserve it. This will be a new chapter in your life, perhaps the best one yet. Fresh Ex you are great too!

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 02:37 am:

Funny how my horoscope for today read:
"You need more information before making any decisions. Ask questions, and sign nothing."

Perfect.

On another note:
HOLY SH** THEY KNOW IT'S ME POSTING ON HERE!
(I didn't do a very good job of trying to disguise myself)

By Andrew Nevis on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 11:14 pm:

Dahn member, it is natural to be a little crazy after leaving Dahn. You are coming back into yourself. View it as akin to coming back from a war zone, a part of you was shut down while in Dahn.
U.S military advises anyone who has served in a stressful area to take at least a month to decompress and return to normal living. Do not make any serious commitments in this time, it is too easy to act on impulse.
You have made so far an important step towards recovery, you're here and talking.
We know you'll get through the bad times, we're all here for you.

By BoPeep on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 08:49 pm:

TWEEKED again. Need suggestions/comments/constructive criticism welcomed.
http://groups.myspace.com/DAHNBUSTERS

Cheers, dears

By BoPeep on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 08:42 pm:

Dearest DahnMember,

What you're describing sounds like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, P.T.S.D.
I had the same symptoms when I got home from
"Sedona" [sic.] where I realized it was all a big Charade; that they were herding people through there like so many cattle.

Keep your chin up! Do something proactive, like maybe... changing your name to EX Dahnmember?
Tear up all Dahn literature, or better yet, burn it ceremoniously. Delete their number from your cell phone. Any little thing you can do to take your power back will help. It did help me. And what ever happened to that check you wrote them??

Cheers!
BoPeep

(Calling them up and cursing them out didn't hurt me a bit, either;~]...)

By cat on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 08:06 pm:

In regard to personal possessions:
The next to last master at my center was
straight from Korea where she supposedly was
one of the top creators of Brain Respiration.
She and the master who she was replacing worked
very hard to get me to sign up for her special
brain healing at $500 an hour and I would need
a minimum of ten. I even got senenaded with flute music(they weren't very good). I said too much money especially if I was going back to Sedona for
myungsa training. She suggested that I had
lots of nice jewelry and why did I need so much?
I told her the jewelry was there before Dahn and
she couldn't have it. She dropped the price to
$200 an hour if I would bring in 10 new members
or send 10 members from my class to her for
healing. I said I would send members to her if
I really felt they needed healing. She began pressuring the other master(I thought we were very close) to force me to a decision. He ended
up very angry with me. Our relationship was never the same after that. The new master went
back to Korea after three months here.

Sorry, I don't know how to get this computer to
type across the page. I'm sure there's a button
to push. I just don't know which one.

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 04:53 pm:

For anyonr trying to leave dahn:

The Rick Ross sight has some good information at http://www.rickross.com/help.html

If therapy is out of the question call on some family or friends and do some shared activity. It doesn't have too be strictly talking, it can be going to a movie or baseball game or to the park,bicycling or hiking,etc.

Do an activity that made you happy before dahn. It will bring even greater joy now that you are free from a dangerous cult.

Most people were born into some religion. Jewish,Christian,Bhuddist,etc. Why not go back to the respective church and pray for guidance? It can't hurt. After all isn't this what dahn has you do with the bow training and chanting?

If you get all depressed and fall into sorrow you are actually letting them control you. They want you to be dependant on them. All of their training is to make you a slave to them. Every exercise you do helps them to brainwash you into becoming their slave.

You must realize that you were doing fine before they came along and you will be fine after they are out of your lives. Good Luck!

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 04:36 pm:

"I remember reading on Healer BBS (a site for those who attended healer school) one of the masters in the Boston area giving ideas for overcoming money objections. She mentioned; borrowing from credit cards, borrowing from family, selling possessions and the final comment sorta tongue in cheek was, "you can stand on the street and beg"---Whenwillitstop

I am surprised this master did not mention emptying out your retirement IRA or 401k plans. This statement says a lot about the priorities of dahn. dahn doesn't care about their members only how they can get their hands on their members money.

The masters will make you believe that money is bad. They don't want you to focus on money or material posessions like houses and cars,etc. So you don't and before you know it you are poor and in debt.

dahn will put its members into the poorhouse with no remorse of how it will destroy the lives of it members. Once they have your money they will move on to the next victim. This means the fake love ends and all the attention ends and you are just another worker bee, unless you leave.

dahn yoga is a dangerous cult led by a reported sexual deviant.

Be aware and be warned.

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 04:01 pm:

for the past week i have been acting downright HOSTILE toward people.
ack!
is that normal?

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 03:59 pm:

im gonna go for a walk and get some fresh air.

i called my boyfriend who i basically alienated and ignored for the past few months, telling him i didn't need him (you know, you don't need a "parter" because they just distract you from "the vision")
and anyway i asked him to go out with me tonight.

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 03:57 pm:

no its just another one of my stupid panic attacks.
ahhhhhhhhhhhh
i dont know what to do

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 03:48 pm:

Call 911 and get to the hospital

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 03:33 pm:

only 6 months.
but the thing is, before i joined i was suicidal, self-harming, alcoholic, pill-popper, anorexic and bullimic.
after about 2 months in Dahn all of that stopped.
i felt so great, so euphoric, and began to embrace life.

now i'm scared, depressed, can't get out of bed, anxious, stressed, crying, panicky, lost, obsessed and fixated about this.

all my friends are disillusioned with the thoughts that dahn is a way of "purifying themselves" and "working for the vision".
i caught on too quickly, unlike the other foolish youths.
but merely understanding does not make things better.

i dropped out of school
my job is working at the center
it seems as though all my other interests have disappeared.

HELP.
I can't breathe anymore.

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 03:23 pm:

Sorry Dahnmember;
I need to take that advise myself, if you know what I mean.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 03:22 pm:

To Dahn memeber, who needs help:

I personally found that getting involved with something new is very exciting, the feeling is similar to falling in love. Except that in case of Dahn, the love turned out to be misplaced and the honeymoon was over pretty soon.

Anyway, it is said, the best way to forget lost love is to find a new one.
The same with Dahn, - find a new love, find something new and exciting to do and you will get over Dahn.

By hiding from the world, and suffering alone you are not helping yourself . In fact, you are probably making it worse.
Get out there, sign up for Tai Chi, volounteer for a church or something.

Best of luck.
Cheers from Houston.

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 03:13 pm:

How long have you been in Dahn? What did you do before? Do you have a job or are you in school? Sounds like you need some structure.
Being at the center is not being in the real world. I know I loved the escape as well. You seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place. Sounds like you believed Dahn was the answer to all your problems in life. Now you know you must look within and count on yourself, not Dahn, not your family, and especially not this board. We are here to share our experiences for others to see.
When all else fails I pray.
Love and Light

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:58 pm:

ALRIGHT.
THIS IS IT.

HELP ME.

I have been at home the past 4 days reading this message board and the other websites OVER AND OVER.

I've been avoiding class but I get multiple calls EVERY DAY.

I want to get out.
But I'm obsessed.
It's taking over my mind and I feel like I'm about to go crazy.

Now I know why people commit suicide from being in cults- MY BRAIN IS GOING CRAZY.
Not saying that I'm suicidal AT ALL, just saying that I can definitely understand the reasons now.

But I want to get out, and then I kind of don't.
And the thing is, I DONT KNOW WHY I WANT TO STAY.
Something's compelling me.

I HAVE TO GO TO YEHA CAMP IN SEDONA.
I HAVE TO GO TO SHIM SUNG.
But I'm creeped out... I want to just... RUN!!!!!!!!

Does anyone know where I can get help?
I can't tear myself away from the computer, searching for new articles or waiting for new posts.
I'm addicted and obsessed.

I don't really have any friends outside Dahnhak.
And I don't get along with my family.
I was, and am, a prime target for them.

WHAT DO I DO?????????????????????????????????

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:12 pm:

oh yeah and there's another Ben who's in Korea as an Earth Star right now.
I don't know which center he is from though.

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 01:04 pm:

ohhhhh you're right Caleb.
Fremont center?

By fresh-ex on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 12:28 pm:

hi SC and clockwork! SC- thanks for the correction on that author. i will check it out.
i am not not doing research either right now so i am more of an observer. and i too am weary of opening links. its too risky for me!
its so interesting to watch people transform on the board... setting themselves free. its great. this board is wonderful.
so a big hi back to clockwork and SC

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 12:26 pm:

In conclusion: There are a lot of Bens getting sucked into Dahn, along with all the Toms, Dicks, and Harrys.

By caleba76 on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 11:47 am:

Dahn Member,
I know the Ben you are talking about but he is from California up near the Bay Area not Boston.

By Whenwillitstop on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 11:37 am:

IMO. The masters who ran some centers outside of Seattle and Boston did not use the same high pressure tactics to get members to participate in various Dahn training activities.The Boston Regional as well as the Seattle Regional were the Queens of $$$ produced. Each class in Sedona that I attended was well represented by these two regions. I remember reading on Healer BBS (a site for those who attended healer school) one of the masters in the Boston area giving ideas for overcoming money objections. She mentioned; borrowing from credit cards, borrowing from family, selling possessions and the final comment sorta tongue in cheek was, "you can stand on the street and beg"
I can understand someone selling their t.v. etc to attend a function believing they are saving humanity.
The Seattle Regional has moved all her high pressure "thugs" to Texas to continue with her mission.

By clockwork on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 10:30 am:

That sounds like the Ben I knew, he would haev done something like that and announced it. He was so gung ho abotu Dahn Yoga when I knew him, we was obsessed and went to sedona after only being in Dahn three months. I always wonder what happened to him and ho whe saw the truth.

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:50 am:

The Ben I met announced at YEHA camp that he had sold his entire TV/stereo/entertainment center to pay for his airline ticket and trip to Sedona.

By BooRadley on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 07:56 am:

Dear Mr. Andrew Nevis, Esq., et.al.,
DahnBusters URL is at
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupid=100835561&Mytoken=20050809075048

Thanks for the Kudos ;~}
Boo

By clockwork on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 04:25 am:

I think I knew Ben also, I am in Massachusetts and I knew a Ben in the same area. He got so into Dahn so fast, then I found out recently he no longer is a part of Dahn. I am so curious to know if that is him. He was a very passionate young man and I would not doubt he would go to the press with his story. I am so curious!

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 12:07 am:

If they stay in one place too long they may make some friends and find out the truth about dahn.

lee won't allow this to happen because he will lose control over his master slaves.

It could be because they are also in this country illegally. Hence, the name changes.

What is lee's immigration status? Is he a US citizen or is he illegal?

There are many ways to go with this line of thinking.

Bottom Line:

Beware of dahn yoga it is a dangerous cult!!!

By Dahn member on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:21 pm:

I'm still sticking to the idea that Lee moves his masters around just so they won't become attached to any particular place, members, or other masters.
He does not want them to develop the human-like qualities of trust and affection, which can only be gained by time- the masters know they will be moved so they don't bother becoming emotionally involved or making friends because they know they'll just lose their loved ones over and over again.
It's a way of keeping them loyal to him- Lee is the only constant in their lives.

I feel so sad for them.

By HealerNoMore on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:11 pm:

"Seung Heun Lee is the worst kind of sexual predator who, under the pretense of teaching sexual Tao mastery, has sexually violated over 200 (some say 500) ofhis female disciples." -Jiha Kim 1999

I started to think about this phrase and found it very disturbing. Is this the reason lee has all of his masters transferred every few months?

It seems like lee doesn't want his "women" masters falling in love or being with other men. He owns them and only he is allowed to be with them. He must get them early into their indoctrination to ensure that he is the only one who has them.

Is this his way of dominating all of the men in dahn? He is the alpha male so only he gets the women.

How do the Korean (male) masters feel about this? I am sure they would be as offended as anyone else. Do they realize that lee has emasculated them? Do they like being dominated by lee? Will lee eventually demand full castration of his male masters?

This speech by Jiha Kim sheds a whole new light on lee's behavior.

If there are any members doubting what ex-members are saying on this board, you can believe everything by looking at lee's behavior.
It is not normal and in my opinion quite dangerous.

We can only hope more people will be warned by reading this and other websites dedicated to exposing lee and dahn for what it truly is -- a dangerous cult

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 10:10 pm:

Tee-hee. I don't want to say what you made me think of here. Squatting, sudden heat bursting forth, melting the snow beneath him.

By Dahn member on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 09:58 pm:

Quote from article #2:

"He also speaks of squatting for hours on a snow-covered field in sub-zero temperatures. Ready to die, he wrote, ***his body emanated a furious heat, melting the snow and forming a capsule of energy that shielded him from the cold.***"

*supresses giggles*

By Dahn member on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 09:52 pm:

well, in the case of Dahnhak, it is a VERY small world!

we're so lucky- some of the small number of people who were sucked into Dahnhak before people started discovering the truth about it.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 09:35 pm:

"I am almost positive I met the 21-year-old guy named Ben at Sedona."

Small world, no?

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 08:44 pm:

what's suppp healer no more? where are you ?

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 08:09 pm:

i wish i could have been a fly on the wall today at the bedford and greenburgh new york centers..

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 08:00 pm:

andrew we need a better linkthe web addresst does not seem to be working

By Andrew Nevis on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 07:47 pm:

I liked the article so much I shared it with friends, press friends. Busy day, but worth it! I hope other ex-dahn all do the same.
At the same time, a fine website has appeared, dahn_busters try it out. The people there are friendly

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 05:02 pm:

dahntruth@yahoo.com

By Dahn member on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:33 pm:

For the 3rd link- I am almost positive I met the 21-year-old guy named Ben at Sedona.
And the story he tells sounds EXACTLY like what I'd tell a reporter.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:31 pm:

I think I speak for most people here by saying Wahooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! about the
articles. Good job Shawn Cohen! Good job witnesses and victims who were brave enough to give their names!!!!!!!!!!! An article just doesn't have much strength unless real people are quoted.

And Wahoooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! to our friends at NewDahn for give us straight facts, documents that we can actually look at.

All we can do and hope for it to make people aware of the dark side of Dahn. You can lead a horse to water...

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 12:25 pm:

By don jon on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 12:22 pm:

hi, they probably do not open link because it could be a virus. especially at a news organization. I am sure you could also print the article and fax it if that is any easier for you.

if we all do it the story will get out and save people from joining.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:42 am:

no way. would you.

By Dahn member on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:21 am:

oh, they don't open links?

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:16 am:

set up a yahooo account anonymously.

you will have to cut and paste the story because new rooms will not open files.

give them a persoal story on how it affecting your area.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 10:58 am:

How can I email the newspaper article to my
newspaper anonymously? I tried but boths papers
require an email address. We have eight centers
in this area so there might be enough interest
to reprint or do their own story.

By don jon on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 10:54 am:

That is great Dahn member. This story has legs!
Need to show the news media that there is an interest. Good for you!
I will do the same in New York at my local paper.

By Dahn member on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 10:45 am:

I sent the links to my local paper in Los Angeles county. If they take the article, hey maybe the LA Times will be next.

By stillpsyched on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 07:35 am:

onemouse; thanks. please keep posting these links at the top.
Westchester today; all the others tomorrow.
And thanks to the people who kept the Julia case alive and urged that brave man to come forward with the truth.
Now those masters can get real jobs using their amazing skills to become productive members of society. And gaining the rewards such hard work and dedication offer. Or become true healers of the sick and downtrodden.

By clockwork on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 07:28 am:

I am nervous to check these websites because I am at work and many times these sites freeze up the computer and I get in trouble. It is not like I am ignoring anyone I just can't access some of this information here at work and I do not have a computer at home, I can assure you that everyone is very interested and appreciate the hard work and research.

By hazmat on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 06:50 am:

whatever. Did you get the point?

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 06:44 am:

westchester is not a "town" it is a county - lots of small towns. Chappaque,RYE, New Rochelle,mamaroneck,scarsdale as in the diet. etc

By hazmat on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 06:30 am:

You are right. This is huge. This is the first article that puts it all together !
And Westchester is extremely wealthy and powerful east coast town. You can maybe f**k with Arizona but no NOT f**k with New York baby.
Bet Lee is peeing in his pants right now or planning his exit strategy.

By Stillahealer on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 06:02 am:

You bet I am psyched; about time!!

And http://www.newdahn.com/usa

God Bless Jhia Kim; more required reading.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 05:36 am:

Nobody here seems to be to psyched about this story that ran in print as well. It is also in the top 5 read articles on line. Hummm... Westchester ny. It is one of the richest and most influential areas in the world. Bill Clinton lives there as do most of the "player's ". The papers papa company is Gannett / usa today, this is big stuff. Not some small paper in sugar loaf NY.

By clockwork on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 04:50 am:

hello fresh ex, I am still here and always will be. I have been observing as well, there is so much useful info, books, websites being made available to us on this board that I will always be reading it and learning from it. I have not written because I have not had as much useful info to share as the others on this board have, I am very impressed by this board and I thank you all for your support. I will always be here fresh ex, I hope all is well with you.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 01:59 am:

Darn it, I meant to change that to David Hawkins. sorry.
SC

By Anonymous on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 01:57 am:

The poet's press release lends more credibility to the "1999 Story." "Rotten core," that seems to sum it up.

Shawn Cohen's articles are well-written. Nothing new to us here, but maybe his articles will reach a larger readership. Does anyone know if his articles will appear in print or just online?

I would have written the last paragraph of the article called "Founder Peddles Belief in ancient healing" differently."
(THE CAPITALS ARE MY CHANGES): "He has gained notoriety as a new age guru, publishing nearly two dozen books that have sold more than 1 million copies, MANY PURCHASED BY HIS OWN EMPLOYEES IN A SCHEME BY DAHN OFFICIALS TO PLACE LEE'S BOOKS ON BEST SELLER LISTS. THE FORWARD OF ONE OF THESE BOOKS WAS WRITTEN BY RICHARD HAWKINS, WHO LATER WITHDREW HIS SUPPORT.

He offered a prayer for peace AT A WORLD SUMMIT OF RELIGIOUS LEADERS in 2000, WHICH WAS HELD AT THE U.N. GENERAL ASSEMBLY HALL BUT WAS NOT SPONSORED OR ORGANIZED BY THE U.N. AND TO WHICH THE DALAI LAMA WAS NOT INVITED.

HE CO-ORGANIZED a humanity conference in South Korean WITH NEALE DONALD WALSCH, INVITING HIMSELF TO SPEAK, ALONG WITH Al Gore AND A VARIETY OF POPULAR NEW AGE FIGURES.

I suppose Shawn had a word limit ;-)

Anyway, I think he did a good job on the articles. I admire the people who he quoted, especially the companion on the hike with Julia, for their courage in speaking out.

SC

By Anonymous on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 10:20 pm:

Finally "Official Press Conference by Jiha Kim" is up on "http://www.newdahn.com/usa"

By fresh-ex on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 08:17 pm:

TO ANON ON JULY 25 AT 6:46
i am still looking for that book you suggested. is hockins spelled hawkins perhaps?
to those new on the board- i quit about 4 months ago and i am much happier and stronger now.
alot of the training actually helped me to set myself free, which really needed to happen. i was a prime target for dahn: young, pretty, and single. and i was getting involved very quickly.
keep reading the board- it will tell you everything you need to know and more! its what got me to finally quit. and questions get answered as well. i am forever grateful to the posters on this board- hopeful(MKD), clockwork, mouse, SC, HNM, andrew... seems nearly everyone is gone now. i am still around, but mostly read and observe. there is a cycle i find. i find it difficult to communicate with all the anons- i can't keep track!!! pick a name- its still anon!
good luck to all!

By don jon on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 08:10 pm:

This is it. The truth is coming out. Look out.
Please send a link to this article to your local newspapers so they
can pick it up and the truth can get out.

By onemouse on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 07:37 pm:

Hi all,
Please, check this.

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050807/NEWS12/508070310/-1/spider

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050807/NEWS02/508070311/-1/spider

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050807/NEWS12/508070312/-1/spider

By Dahn member on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 01:43 pm:

yeah i was talkin about how the people at my center didn't care that i was about to pass out- they just kicked me out.
and they didn't care that i skipped their classes and workshops even though i'm there 6 days a week.

whoever said this is probably right- if i'm asking questions to make them feel uncomfortable, they probably want me gone.

sad.

By cat on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 09:11 am:

Newdahn is on vacation. All is well.

By FNM on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 08:01 am:

cat,
it's 11:00 am est here, and yes, I'm having the same problem with getting 'New Dahn' up

By don jon on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 06:36 am:

Let me try that again! sorry folks, I have not had my coffee ....

also, yes, I am sure they are no dummies, of course, they are
figuring out that they need better "customer" service.
there is so much corruption the last thing they need is someone like the NYS Attorney General Eliot Spitzer cracking down on them- which is what will happen if they get enough complaints.

By don jon on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 06:23 am:

also, yes, I am sure they ae no dumb, of course, they are
figuring out that they need "customer" service.
there is so much corruption the last thing they need is someone like NYS Attorney General Eliot Spitzer- which is what will happen if they get enough complaints.

By don jon on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 06:20 am:

please someone post the "new customer service phone no."
thank you.

By cat on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 05:51 am:

Am I the only one who cannot get newdahn this a.m.? The site is there but it says "board test"
What does that mean?

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:32 pm:

The phone number is a ruse to make you let your guard down.

Once you are a member they will get to work on you. Count on it.

They are about generating revenue for lee.

They will coerce you into taking money from your 401k plans and they will get you to leave your family and friends.

If you want to do QiQong, yoga ot tai chi exercises you don't need dahn yoga.

There are plenty of alternatives besides them.

By hopeful on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:04 pm:

I've had a membership at Dahn Yoga for several months and have been to classes off and on.

I also saw the new customer service phone no. display.

It looks like there have been some changes. We'll see how it goes.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 09:52 pm:

Oops, DahnMember, sorry. I reread your last post and I think I heard it wrong. I thought you were frustrated with us for not replying but now I think you were just expressing outrage at the Dahn center staff for not showing any concern.

Sorry for the lecture about Internet groups.
Mea Culpa,
SC

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 09:42 pm:

Dahn Member, I personally was appalled that you were treated that way. It was really creepy!

And please don't take it personally if people don't reply on an Internet board or to an email group invitation. It does not mean that people aren't responding internally, they just aren't all posting their reactions. Weirdly, in fact, oftentimes the stronger Internet posts get the least replies.

DahnMember, I agree that you are looking for love in all the wrong places. To me, the main purpose of this list is to let people who are looking for information on Dahn to see what some people have been experiencing. Support happens, sure, but it's not like a "real" support group with eye-contact and actually getting to know each other. Internet discussion boards like this aren't a good substitute for real-life support groups. If you need support in your life to the point where you feel seriously rejected when people on a board like this don't reply, then I say seek out some real-life experiences to meet your need for support - but I'm not talking about Dahn! It's a fallacy to think we are limited to just two choices - like, fake love at Dahn or no love at all. Don't dead-end your search for love by falling for "love-bombing." You sometimes sound like a perfect target for Dahn, vulnerable and needy, but you obviously also have a strong side with good self-esteem.

I hope we all stick to the facts and give details here, like DahnMember did by telling us how they acted so cold to him that day. (Someone else posted almost the same thing before, where they made someone's girlfriend sit outside in the Texas heat to wait.) Some people are venting and name-calling here. Please, also give details of what happened to you and why you are so mad.
SC

By Happier on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 08:59 pm:

Thanks anon 07:37
I just got a refund on the spot! I let my instructor know that the classes weren't working for me and we talked about my situation briefly. Then she told me that there have been changes in their refund policy and returned my money with no more questions. I signed up at the end of last month and my contract had just 3 days for a full refund. But just like anon 07:37 said, they gave me a refund. Maybe they learned some lesson and changed their policy. They also showed me a display giving a member satisfaction and customer service phone no. Good for them!

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 08:38 pm:

[My goal is not to punish Dahn just to get them to change their tactics.]

They won't change their tactics. "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

They rely on new members who are unaware of their methods to keep lee's money machine going. If they truly cared about the members and healing the world there would not be so many former members.

Instead they blame the members for having bad energy or low energy when they leave the organization.

lee has proven himself as a fraud. he has fooled and conned all of his masters into thinking he is a god.

All current sabumnims who read this message board should try and leave the organization before it is too late for them.

It would be a shame if they were to commit suicide in order to save face or to protect lee.

I know all of the masters have families who love them and want to see them again.

Sabumnims, I know you are reading this post. Please call your families and renew the bond that will last a lifetime.

This bond with lee is not real. He is using you for his own gain. You are not going to get real enlightenment from this fraud. Stop and think about what you have given up to be with dahn. Is it worth it?

Seek out former masters who were your friends and talk with them. You will find caring and compassionate people who will help you with your best interest at heart.

They will help you and not use you like lee is using you.

Be alert and be aware. lee is a fraud .

By BooRadley on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 07:34 pm:

Good evening, all.
319 views.
81 friends
and membership to 127 groups, including my own TOPIC SPECIFIC GROUP, all in 2 1/2 weeks. Why re-invent the wheel?

Start from scratch if you like, I can't manage to be on 10 different message boards.
I've gotta work!
Don't you???

Guess who,

p.s. can't send an email to someone named anonymous. Do you realize that you can post a ficticious name under username and NOT have to put in a password? Just make up something silly . I have no idea who is talking here. It's getting ... paranoia provoking...again.
Cheers,
;~]

By Stillahealer on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 07:13 pm:

Thanks Poe'd for everything. I emailed you tonight. Please stay!!

Glad SC is also here. Like you I post as anon., sometimes especially if what I have to say may point the finger at me.
This board has become a passion for me. My goal is not to punish Dahn just to get them to change their tactics. Probably dreaming like asking Michael Jackson to stay away from young boys.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 07:05 pm:

Dear Dahnmember;

As the song goes "You are looking for love in all the wrong places"

Right now you need the support of your family and health care provider. Stay away from the center. It is not a place for a person who may be feeling fragile.

Admit the fact that they do not want you there. If you have been asking questions and making them uncomfortable, they want you gone. Sorry to remind you that they are not your friend. Like many of us you knew that but really wanted it to be different with you. "THEY REALLY LOVE ME'.

I know nothing of your family or friends but for my money I would bet on them for the moment. Just walk away while you still have some dignity.

Love and Prayers.

By Dahn member on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 06:07 pm:

POed person-
Make a handle for yourself and regularly use it instead of "Anonymous" and you will be more likely to be answered since people will recognize you.

I don't think there's 2 Dahn Members on here.

Anyway-
anyone have anything to say about the fact that I was about to pass out and they wouldn't let me sit down for fear of members seeing me in my regular clothes? (I work there).
Jeez I was about to fall over and they said to either change into my uniform or leave.
They probably didn't want members to think that anyone could ever feel sick while INSIDE the center.
THey didn't even care as I was practically passed out outside the center and had to have my parents come pick me up because I couldn't make it to my car to drive home.

No, I didn't have any tea, but I know what they put in the tea since I work there- no drugs.

So I skipped an entire week of going to the center, and the Shim Sung, and nobody seems to really even care.

This makes me angry and sad.

Especially since I'm bipolar and have not been suicidal or had any major episodes since I joined the center.

I'm a wreck right now.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 05:46 pm:

Not one emailed yet to the dahncultsurvivors@yahoo.com.
It's as though my postings are invisible. I read lots of postings and people seem to be connecting and acknowleding each other, yet, when I post, I, I feel as though there is noone out there. Funny, I felt abandoned and alienated by my dahn community when I left, and now when I try to connect here, it feels like the same thing is happening. It's very sad. Maybe i need to just let go and move on completely.

Not PO'd anymore, just sad...

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 05:24 pm:

Dhanmember said: "I began to feel dizzy so I told them I just needed to sit down but they were very adamant against that."

Seems to me that you're not the first person to mention feeling dizzy. Not blaming Dahn, but I must ask if you drank the tea before you felt dizzy - just kidding (I think).

So do we have two "Dahn Members" here? I think so.

SC

SC

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 05:20 pm:

Oh, I'm still here. I have been posting as anonymous (I don't know why. Embarrassed for posting too often, I think. I'm the one who almost lost my house to paranoid, then became paranoid also, I mean paranoid2 ;-).
Thanks for thinking of me.

Suziecue

By Stillahealer on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 02:49 pm:

Suzie Cue; Where are you?
If you are not here hope you are having fun.
Some of our posters need your clarity of thought.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 02:15 pm:

HNM and Andrew;

The attorney listed on behalf of the plantiff Karen Winkler is Melanie Beauchamp who appears to be an expert on DUI cases.

You probably already know that though. Do you think she would share informtion about the charge?

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 01:53 pm:

Sorry, should read:

His creation of dahn yoga is just a way to bully and control people. It is a mugging and enslaving of someone weaker that takes place with the members(unwitting)consent.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 01:51 pm:

http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/civil/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2001-021078

I could find no other information on this case.

I bet there are plenty of cases filed against dahn that were never or will never be made public. This is a very immoral organization run by a morally corrupt man who claims to be superior to all others.

lee is a thug and a joke.

His creation of dahn yoga is just a way to bully and control people. It is a mugging and enslaving of someone weaker that place with the members(unwitting)consent.

Do not be fooled by this group. They are not about love. They will lead you into despair and destruction and then they will move on to their next victim.

Be alert and be aware!!!

Instead of googling lee, try googling those around him since he likes others to take the blame for his actions. He only likes the glory.

He is a coward of sorts.

By Dahn member on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:17 pm:

Last night I stopped by my center to ask something about Shim Sung.
I got there at least an hour before class but my JWJN was "busy" - you know, better to spend all your time attracting new members than to worry about keeping the old ones there!
I was told to "first take the class, and then later"(ask about shim sung).
I began to feel dizzy so I told them I just needed to sit down but they were very adamant against that.
They said I either needed to change in my uniform or else I had to leave, because members were coming for class and they might see me in my regular clothing *GASP!*
I snapped "you dont have to yell at me" (in the presense of a few members) as i grabbed my stuff and stumbled out the door, almost blindly. I had to call my parents from my cell phone and lie down outside, because I couldn't even walk, let alone drive myself home.

Nobody came outside to see if I was ok.

I woke up at 11 am today in my bed, wearing the same clothes as I had on last night...I don't know what happened.

Needless to say- Shim Sung is today, and guess who's not there?

By Andrew Nevis on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 04:38 am:

Today let us share how Japanese translation software tells more truth about Dahn. Reading the English version of Japan Dahn's website gave me both a laugh and agreement to the truth. It is more honest than Dahn desires.

"Workshop

Training which has gone always at center, is made easy to understand more easily. In addition there is also video screening and theoretical explanation, it is quantity, it is ill-smelling with contents, also time 2-3 hours spending, it holds.
The beginner even with it is relief."

Open class

To each center question
Please adjust"

Japanese Dahn is got it right, the cult is ill-smelling.
A beginner will find relief after 2-3 hours in Dahn, by leaving.

Fun aside, does anyone know the details of Civil case 2001-021078 in Maricopa county, Arizona which involved Lynn R Montanya, a Dahn lawyer who was a co-defendant with Young Tag Kim? The plaintiff was Karen Winkler, a question mark is added as the case was dismissed with prejudice in March 2002. Info welcome.

By Anonymous on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 12:31 am:

I took someone's idea and ran with it. I created an email for us called dahncultsurvivors@yahoo.com. So, in case we get closed down, if you all want to send me an email, I can create an email with all your addresses and send them out to you all. I could somehow create a group on it or something. I wish i could just give you all the password so that we could just check it, but that would then defeat the purpose. If anyone has any good ideas on how to make this email idea work for us, let me know. Just email it. Hope you enjoyed the links I listed....

Still PO'd. But feeling a little better these days.

By Anonymous on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:59 pm:

Here's a chat room forum talking about dahn as well:
http://forum.rickross.com/viewtopic.php?t=1377&sid=cc8049cdcf32896e5d926874ca3e54e6

By Anonymous on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:56 pm:

And another:

http://dailyablution.blogs.com/the_daily_ablution/2004/12/guardian_report.html

By Anonymous on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:53 pm:

Here's another one
http://selectsmart.com/ilchilee.html

By Anonymous on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:50 pm:

Found this on the web tonight. Looked interesting and has some great links.

http://www.factnet.org/headlines/korean_cults.htm?FACTNet

By guesswho on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:13 pm:

308 people have viewed my site, < 3 weeks.

By FNM on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 10:36 pm:

Anon 7:37, if your contract says refunds possible up tp to 14 days, and partial refunds possible after that, WOW, lucky you!

Because that's totally new. Up until now, all Dahn contracts say: 'NO REFUND POSSIBLE'. And the only get-out is the 72 hour window required by law. And that's in tiny print at the bottom of the page.
My contract for healing sessions didn't even have that! and
for Shim Sung they didn't even give me a copy of the contract!

Could it be that they have changed their policies? If so, why?

Could it be that the posting of all our stories and others like them are scaring them into cleaning up some of their act?

Could it be that enough people have been writing to Attornies General and BBB's, and they are trying to avoid further attention?

Let's see.

But to everyone, hold on to every piece of paper you have: contracts, cancelled checks, credit card bills.
And write down all of your experiences with Dahn so you don't forget. Keep the proof of their fraud

By Anonymous on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:37 pm:

I recently signed up for a trial membership at a Dahn Center and really liked the class.
It seems like people have had some negative experiences with Dahn, so I��m checking things out.
Anyway, when I signed up, they gave me a copy of the contract and it says that I have 14 days to get a full refund and partial refunds are available after 14 days.
So why don't you just ask them for a refund?

By Anonymous on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:33 pm:

"i don't care if it's fake love.
my friends and family don't even go so far as to fake it... so what the fuck do i care?"

Is this the same "DahnMember" who has been posting here? Doesn't sound like you.

By unCULTured on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:03 pm:

Re: refunds

I joined Dahn and, one week later, realized they were a cult. So, I basically marched in there with a file into which I'd printed Julia Siverls' family's wrongful death suit, as well as the "comments" page from the Rick Ross Web site. I told them that I'd signed up for an exercise class, not a religious organization, and that I wanted my money back. I did all this at the front desk, in front of customers, members, everything--don't let them take you into a back room...create a stink in front of everyone! I had 80% of my money back within ten minutes--I had to pay for the 4 classes I particpated in at $17/class, plus $30 for the uniform and a $15-20 fee for orientation. I didn't even have to threaten going to the Better Business Bureau or the Attorney General--they gave me a refund on the spot.

Just goes to show you that THEY KNOW they're full of crap.

By Stillahealer on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 03:21 pm:

anon; 2:19.
Request a refund in writing at your center stating your reasons for wanting a refund.
Some reasons may be:
You did not understand clearly what you were signing up for.
You felt it was misrepresented in some way.
Prices were not clearly posted.
etc, etc.
Give a time frame for a response before sending copy of letter to State Attorney General and the Better Business Bureau.

Good luck; tell us more when you have time. You are lucky to get out early and unlike some of us fell for ALL THE LOVE.

copy everything to Arizona headquarters

By Dahn member on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 03:12 pm:

except cat-
i'm still in.
they actually love me more than my own family and friends do.
i don't care if it's fake love.
my friends and family don't even go so far as to fake it... so what the fuck do i care?

By Anonymous on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 02:19 pm:

I signed up for Dahn yoga a week ago and realized that it was not right for me. The instructors were kind and the classes were fun, but I want to withdraw. Can anyone tell me how to get a refund?

By HealerNoMore on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:56 am:

Do not give in to the fear. This will only make dahn stronger. If you shine a light on them they will scatter like roaches. They are afraid of the truth. This is our greatest weapon.

If dahn was about truth, they would not be shutting down websites or suing people who speak out against them.

You can see by their behavior that lee is running an immoral organization that seeks to remove money from its members pockets. If you read the 1999 letter, you know it is real. Most former members who have been healer or higher up in the organization will be familiar with these experiences. lee uses people and disposess of them when he no longer needs them.

We on this board no longer needed lee or dahn and so we disposed of them. This infuriates dahn and that is why they would like to stop people like us. They are afraid of the truth.

Can any long term members tell us of any benefits they get from dahn which could not be gotten somewhere else for far less money and manipulation?

The reality is not what dahn wants the public to hear. It cannot stand up to scrutiny.

Keep posting your experiences. Here and other cults boards. If you write it we will be there.

There is a website with a section on Korean cults as well as dahn at http://falsemessiah.proboards23.com/

Do not give in to fear!

By Anonymous on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 09:17 am:

All right out of the playbook to keep you off balance and curious. They pride themselves on manners. Since when is it o.k. to speak in another language the other people do not understand?
Answer: Only in Dahn.

A fried of mine told me two masters cursed at her in Korean. They did not have the courage to say it in English.

By cat on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 09:13 am:

I'm sure "they" would like this site and all
negative Dahn chatter stopped but as far as
fear about who we are, I sincerely doubt they
are going out of their way to search us out.
They are much too busy recruiting new members.
It would be rather pointless because we're
already out, I'm positive that by the discription of my last shim sung anyone in my
area knows who I am, but so what? It's the
truth, they know it, too many witnesses to deny it, and I'm gone. The only problem they would
have had would be to justify my being gone so
abruptly. I was teaching four and five times
a week in addition to all the other stuff.
The answer is usually "he/she" is no longer here".
We're very quickly forgotten, no time to waste
on ex-dahners.

By Dahn member on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 08:32 am:

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh paranoid now.
you know where they do that thing where they talk in korean and look at you, and talk some more, and kind of laugh or smile?
yeah they did that to me and it makes me feel really awkward and paranoid.

AHHH!

By FNM paranoid on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:31 am:

What's nice about this board is its anonymity, and its 'user-friendliness'. I think that's why we are all here, more than, say, Rick Ross message board.

We don't need to give an email address to post. That's great. It must be frustrating the heck out of the Dahn Mafia. I don't know what it takes to get a message board shut down. Maybe it's not based in Korea, so Lee doesn't have the connections and that's why it's going on so long.? If it's in China, the Chinese authorities don't like cults. Look how they are with Falun Gong. So maybe, if they know what he really is, they won't cooperate with him??

But, I agree, this could get crashed, and at any time. I keep feeling we are living on borrowed time. That's why I keep saving it.

However, the downside is: how to keep in touch?

About the email addresses. I realized several months back, after I posted on another message board, that my email address was posted as well! That freaked me out. So I created another email address on Hotmail. But then, when I got some emails from people, I ended up not answering them because I was scared they were from Dahn Mafia. I got paranoid thinking that they were tricking me in to replying, so then they would be able, through my email back to them, to trace my ispn number , and thus my computer. Then they'd know who I was! I was in the early stages of Dahn withdrawal at that point, and feeling very nervous!

So, anyone know if that fear is valid? Can you trace someone's ispn number through their email?

One way around this is to go to an outside computer, a computer cafe? I'm not familiar with this but you young things out there would know.

That's a bit of a pain to do though, and in any case, even if you did this, you'd never know if the emails you were getting were genuine.

So, another suggestion is to meet up on Rick Ross message board if this site goes down. Create a hotmail or yahoo email address. Don't reply to any of the emails you get. Post answers on Rick Ross. If you do reply to any emails, don't do it from your own computer.

And, don't say anything anywhere that could identify you, especially if you are trying to get your money back. That could compromize your chances.
Also, they could go at you for defamation or something.

Disguise yourself with your style of language, don't say where you are!

PS finally: we should make a contribution to Rick Ross .com

By FNM on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:30 am:

Regarding New Dahn website:

I am saving it all to my hard drive. However, it isn't easy, and I have tried this on both Mac and Windows. The page doesn't save in the regular way I use, ie.: File, Save As, etc. If I do that and then open it from my hard drive, it comes up as blank page.

So, I ended up opening a word document, highlighting the English text on the New Dahn page, copying and pasting to the word doc.
I did this for each page! 32 pages of the letter, and then all the other stuff! That's dedication?

For the Korean, that is different. It's in a different format, some photo format. That's much easier. I just clicked on the Korean photo/text, which opens it up in a new page. Then I click on Save in the File menu, et voila! That works.

Does anyone here with more computer savvy know of a better way?

By FNM on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:19 am:

To Dahnmember 2.43 today:

"i told my jwjn and my sabumnim (separately) that i wouldn't be going to shim sung. they both said "ok", no questions asked, no hint of annoyance or anything."

IMO, 3.24am, and SAH 5.18 am are right. Don't slip and let them fool you into thinking they 'like you especially'. You are just a money machine (ATM??) to them.

And I agree that of course they are watching this board, and in addition to the training the masters already have at manipulation, they may be even getting instructions from the top based on what they read here,

For example, the post I made earlier from the Washington State AGO about health clubs. The clause about 'high pressure sales tatics" may make Dahn strategists send instructions modifying their well-known (to us) pressure tactics. So, when Dahn member got the reaction she did about shim sung, that could be why.

Just musing.

By FNM on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:56 am:

Thanks anon 10:52 and 12:53:

One example from the Washington State site fits Dahn to a 'T':

"While there are numerous reputable health clubs in Washington, consumers have reported the following practices to the Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division:

Using high pressure sales pitches to embarrass or intimidate people into buying memberships.

Offering low-cost "trial memberships" before pressuring consumers into buying more expensive memberships later.

Making misrepresentations about the club's facilities, staff and equipment. "

Oh, there is so much I want to say right now on several topics. How to sort it out?
I think I'll make a separate post for each topic.

By Stillahealer on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:18 am:

Dear Member,

Remember they are Masters of Sales. Even though they are a large organization, they have instant communication to the top. For example people watching and reporting comments on this board. Probably members are also commenting as well. In addition there is the law suit stating some of the tactics they use to get draw people in. There is also the fear of the 20/20 piece. Believe me they know every comment that has been written. There is probably one senior master assiged to reporting and condensing everything.'

And last but not least they may have identified you from comments you made on this board. This business can change on a dime; just one word from the man at the top. As IMO indicated they have a sales plan for every member. They already know you really do want to go, so now they make you want it even more. It is so exhausting just thinking about it.

By IMO on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 03:24 am:

Dahn Member,
Remember they are masters at manipulation, playing psychological mind game. They do encounter a lot of resistance from people when they try to sell these special programs. You are not the first person saying "not going". They have a set of strategies on how to deal with and react to depending on the person and the situation. Their strategies evolve as experience various reactions from members. Everything they do and say to members is calculated. I remember my jwjn making comments referring to a member who had stopped coming to the center "let her leave and see how long she lasts. She will want to come back on her own after a few months." They are very disciplined and good at what they do.

By Dahn member on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 02:43 am:

hm... they seem to actually like me.
i told my jwjn and my sabumnim (separately) that i wouldn't be going to shim sung. they both said "ok", no questions asked, no hint of annoyance or anything.

i apologized and they said "what are you worried about? if you can't go, then you can't go"

is that some time of manipulation? because i actually felt better after getting those reactions.
maybe i'm missing something.

By Dahn member on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 05:07 pm:

I'll create an email account later. I gotta run but I was just stopping by to check this board.

Oh yeah- I have all the phone numbers, and some of the e-mail addresses for all of the healers at my center.
What to use them for... muhahahaha...

By BoPeep on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 04:59 pm:

Hi, all,

This day had to come; the Dahndroids start spamming the board to the degree that it's unmanageable. I think the idea of the REAL people here posting a temporary E-MAIL ADDRESS (hotmail or yahoo is free) just for the purpose of us not losing touch with each other is really, really imperitive.

To each and every anonymous (anonimii?)
please pick a handle and stay with it so we will know who we are talking to.

Two of us have already posted our email addys. (Stillahealer and myself)

Please consider doing this also. I have a feeling we are about to lose the board. Thanks.

Cheers!
BoPeep

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 02:50 pm:

A good idea is to email the anti dahn websites to everyone you know. Email it even if they don't go to the centers, they may know someone and spread the emails like they do at offices all around the country.

Do it as a public service warning.

If you are members of other websites post the information there for all to see. Warn others of the dangers of joining this group.

Dahn Yoga is a cult!!!

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 02:46 pm:

There are some good ideas for flyers at:

www.xenu.net

It is a scientology site but it is informative.

Look under "What is going on now?" section called " the xenu leaflet".

Dahn Yoga is a cult!!!

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:53 pm:

DAHN YOGA A IS CULT!

http://www.wholehealthclinic.com/discus2/messages/5/172.html?1080067411

Wake up go online and do your homework!!! Be informed

I just put this on a flyer!!! i will drop them around the hood.

USE BOLD HALVETIA !!!

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:03 pm:

Here's what Washington state has to offer about lifetime contracts at health centers: http://www.atg.wa.gov/consumer/health.shtml

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:04 am:

Lifetime memberships to "health spas" or whatever your state calls them, are illegal in most states, I just read. Most attorney general offices have a hotline you can call for information or to report unfair trade practices. Manipulation of consumers is not legal. The more reports to attorney generals, the more notice they will take.

There are specific recommended procedures you should follow, like writing a certified letter demanding your money back. You can find good advise online. Go for it.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 10:52 am:

Start researching on fitness clubs, deceptive practices, you come up with things like this as examples of what the laws are and what can be done: http://www.co.nassau.ny.us/consumer/pr0315d-04.html

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 09:31 am:

i am not a lawyer. Deceptive Trade Practices Act keeps running through my head. something like 10 X actual damages if found in favor of consumer.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 09:29 am:

Thanks for the math correction. I figured it out just after pressing the send botton

By Dahn member on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 09:26 am:

wait wait wait...
i don't think that would pass in any court, no matter how logical you try to make it seem.
the membership is not designed for "life expectancy", and they most likely do not expect people to actually go until the day they die!

anyway your math is a little off.
if your life expectancy is 85 and you are 32 years old, you actually have 53 years remaining.
If you figured a life membership based on that, they'd be charging you only about 70 bucks a year.
they expect some people to quit after a year or 2, and some to stay for 10 or more years.
so that's their way of making up for the price.
there's no guarantee on the membership, and i doubt it says anywhere in the contract that you get a refund if you stop using it before you die.

Nice try :-P

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:58 am:

Calling all Life Time Members. This may be the way to ask Dahn for a refund with class action status.
For Example

Age at purchase 30

Cost $4,000.00

Age at resignation 32

Life Expectancy 85

Years remaining 83

Refund Due $3,858.00
They younger one is at time of purchase more to be refunded.

Where are the actuaries on this form. Probably too busy running the numbers to be taken in by a Life Time Membership

By Dahn member on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:57 am:

That's still not *proof* though.

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 06:42 am:

whoops, sorry, didnt realize most recent messages up top now..

By Anonymous on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 06:41 am:

did everyone leave?

By Stillahealer on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 04:52 am:

To those who want proof positive that lee and the top 20% are abusers, I ask the following question.

Were you on the Michael Jackson jury?I thought so.
I thought so.

The writing mentioned 80% of Masters are not aware of some of this horrible stuff. They would leave in a minute.

Some of you would not believe it even seeing with your own eyes. Look at the masters who were with Julia on the hike and they are still there, feeling they are stronger because they survived. I hope Gina comes to her senses; she had a bright future in a field where she could really help people.

Remember the masters writings are a translation from Korean.

By Dahn member on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:12 am:

*IDEA TIME*

How do we get this message to the public?
I want to do so anonymously.

I thought... maybe we could print out flyers, and have a counter-attack!
But there are so many down-sides to that.

And most every-day Dahn members do not see these websites.

Maybe we should at least have someone on here condense the most important incriminating facts about Dahn onto 1 page, including websites, etc.
So that way we could at least print out the stuff onto a single page and do SOMETHING with it.. if not email it or post it everywhere.

Good idea/bad idea??

By Dahn member on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:08 am:

Yeah you just reminded me about the uniform-
I was kind of sad when I bought my uniform, that instead of looking like a dignified martial arts or yoga uniform, it had a great big DAHN WORLD TM logo on the front, and a BRAIN RESPIRATION TM logo on the shoulder.
HSP GRIMACE!!!!

By unCULTured on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:01 am:

It’s completely obvious why hardcore Dahn drones would spam this message board with random, unoriginal, pre-existing messages: all they know how to do is copy and paste, imitate and execute. Any critical-thinking skills that would allow them to come up with an ORIGINAL thought-provoking message of their own were lost somewhere around bow number 843.

What’s the end result? Instead of sharing a different point of view, they choose to behave like school children making a prank phone call. This certainly doesn’t seem like the type of activity an “enlightened” person would engage in.

But, I guess that’s what we can expect from people who are probably just laying around stroking each other’s donjons while listening to Christmas Muzak and trying to figure out what to wear tomorrow (oh, wait! Ill Chi’s already assigned the outfit—surprise! You’ll be in your pajamas. Again. No wonder you’re having such a tough time “waking up”...)

This message board is an invaluable public service and a great forum for intelligent debate—I’ve read every post since joining and un-joining a local Dahn center. Were it not for this board, I would have continued going to classes unaware of what I was inadvertently supporting, which is, namely, a whole lot of bullshit.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 11:45 pm:

Dance is good Be a good citizen and tell at least 50 new people about Dahn. Pass your knowledge like antibodies to others. This way when the Dahn virus tries to call, it'll get a well deserved slammed door.

As to the spammers, the dahnroids, they are pathetic. Do they really think they are protecting a future utopia, especially when its built on violence. Hyung T. Lee, senior advisor to the Dahn organization says it okay.

"We only need 100 masters willing to risk their lives. Blood must be shed. We need to aim guns at Christian ministers and threaten them. We need masters willing to be used."

Why the threats? Why the guns? Why the sheeding of blood? It because of the truth, that Christianity and Dahn are incompatiable. Lee is a liar and Dahn is a fraud. The day is coming when Dahn faces a large class action suit.

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 11:13 pm:

Let's all do the possum dance.

By HealerNoMore on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:47 pm:

dahn spammers.

This is typical of dahn operating procedure. They will keep you from learning the truth.

There is no opinion in dahn unless it comes from that pathetic excuse of a slug called lee.

You are only allowed to read his plageurized books and writings. This is a control tactic to keep you from thinking for yourself.

Read back to my quote about the crabs in the bucket. If one is in a bucket it will climb out, but if there are more than one they will keep each other from gaining freedom.

This is dahn. They don't want anyone to leave unless they decide it is time for you to leave. There is no freedom in this vile organization.

When you leave you are designated as being evil and having bad energy.

Keeping the truth from people is what cost Julia Siverls her life. Do you think any rational person would hike 20 miles up a desert mountain in the high heat of the desert without water or a phone to call for help?

This is dahn keeping the truth from its members and letting everyone know they are disposable.

spammers should be ashamed of themselves.

Do you research on this vile group and stay clear.

By HealerNoMore on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:36 pm:

Recovery from car accident.

I am glad you are healing. It will take a little while longer before you realize you are being ripped off by the masters of dahn. Try to keep your rational thoughts and not become a dahndroid.

As you progress through the system and you start to lose all of your freedoms you will know what I mean. When you live with them you will be under the control of the household jwjn. You will be live like a disciplined pet. You will start to realize you no longer have a life outside of dahn. You will lose family, friends and a real paying job with benefits.

Please do your research. Be aware and ask questions. There are other exercises out there which will help you without stealing your life. The exercises of dahn are not original but borrowed from other disciplines.

Good Luck and Good Health.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:19 pm:

Feeling Bugged?
Tuesday August 02, 2005 5:00PM PT

Bee
Bugs, bugs, bugs. They're all around us, and for the most part, they're benign. But when they start buzzin' in Search, it's usually because they're somehow threatening our health and well-being.

Searches on Lyme disease are up 24% as the tick-transmitted illness begins its annual march through the Northeast. Metro searches on the bacterial infection reflect its areas of concentration, with Hartford, CT; Boston, MA; and Albany, NY, leading in percentage of searches. Early detection of the potentially life-threatening disease is key, and concern has driven search spikes on "Lyme disease symptoms" and "Lyme disease treatment."

Interest in West Nile Virus is also on the rise, up 14% in Search this week. This mosquito-borne disease has spread from coast to coast in North America, and people are looking for "symptoms" and "information." A little knowledge about the enemy is always a good thing, and hordes of researchers scoured Search for "mosquito bites," "mosquito repellent," and "mosquito control."

As for the insect nearest and dearest to our heart, bees are buzzing all around us. Queries on "bee sting" jumped 67% over the weekend, as victims sought relief from the painful prick. "Honey bees," "bee sting treatment," "killer bees," "bee pollen," and "bumblebee" also made some noise.

Judging by all this insect buzz flying around, many of you seem to be bugged by a preponderance of critters in your life. Our advice? Stay indoors this summer.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:18 pm:

Powerful Pods
Wednesday August 03, 2005 11:00AM PT

iPod
Open the pod bay doors, Hal -- we're about to break down the buzz on two very different types of, um, pods. First up is the iPod -- must-have music box to a generation of yuppies who'd sooner drive their Bimmers off a cliff than listen to Coldplay without it. Buzz on the iPod is always booming, but hold on to your earbuds, what's this? The completely unrelated QPOD is also causing a commotion in Search. The tiny vehicle from across the pond may be a contender for the world's smallest car, but its buzz is anything but paltry thanks in part to British bobbies signing up to use the "Q" on the j-o-b.

Despite the fact that these two PrODuctS have about as much to do with each other as peapods and pod people, we couldn't resist a rumble to see which is the one true pod. And away we go...

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:18 pm:

Wanna Hear a Good One?
Wednesday August 03, 2005 5:00PM PT

The Aristocrats
We're all suckers for something so naughty and obscene that only those with a strong constitution can watch. No, we're not talking about the Fred Durst sex tape -- rather, the theatrical release of The Aristocrats, an unrated and ultra-blue film with blossoming buzz behind it.

Searches on the 90-minute raunch fest are up 426% over the last week as the flick's buzz builds. It's centered around the telling of a single joke, but what a joke it is. More elaborate setup than actual gag, the joke allows comedians to riff on taboo subjects that would make a longshoreman blush. Queries on "The Aristocrats joke" are up 330% as curious comedy fans try to find out what the extended-family humor is all about. In an animated twist, searches on The Aristocats are also up. But to paraphrase the great David Byrne, this ain't no Disney, this ain't no party, this ain't no fooling around. Probably best to leave the kids at home.

Both the joke and the movie are drawing heavy interest from dudes - a full three-quarters of the searches are from guys. Thanks to a rapturous review in the New York Times, buzz on the flick is sure to get louder as word of (dirty) mouth spreads.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:16 pm:

Recovery from a car accident

When I came to Dahn Yoga 9 months ago, I came with painful injuries sustained in a car accident from a year earlier, herniated disks in both neck and lower back and a pinched nerve that caused pain on my left side of the neck, left shoulder and arm. My arm felt numb and weak. I couldn��t even do any exercises. My lower back would lock out on me every 2 or 3 months and it would take 4 days before I could straighten it and the pain would go away. I felt very disabled and frustrated, being both a physical education and yoga instructor. To top it off, I kept getting blurry vision on and off almost every day. I felt like I was falling apart.
Within weeks I started to notice improvements. With intestinal exercise, my back strengthened and has not bothered me ever since. My pain from the pinched nerve healed right after Shim Sung training (2 months after joining) and I was able to do push ups. My blurry vision disappeared. I improved both in flexibility and strength.
I practiced Dahn Yoga regularly, I attended all suggested workshops and with each one I grew spiritually. Its so amazing how transformational these workshops are. There is healing going on at different levels in each one of them. I fell in love with Dahn Yoga. This program encompasses all that we need in order to grow healthy physically, mentally and spiritually. My visions have became more clear. Dahn Yoga is my way of life. I am ever so grateful.
Kam sa hamni da

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 09:53 pm:

Well I don't think anyone actually has to believe that letter to see the evil in Dahnhak, and recognize it's cult-like behavior.

Oh one of Ilchi's websites does have a forum-
www.dahnyogaonline.com
but it's members-only, you get a password at your center.
AND only the most devoted people post on that website.
It creeped me out a little when Ill-Chi posted his "weekly poem" (some shit from his NHL manual, no doubt) and one of the YEHA members posted, "Thank you for sharing your wisdom, SuSungNim!"
*snickers*

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 08:58 pm:

Sorry, let me add that I do think it's fine that you're questioning. Others are probably thinking the same thing. I just know how much people risk by speaking out, and I want to see them appreciated for it. But it's good that you speak your mind and ask questions. More people should do that when they go to Dahn.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 08:46 pm:

As far as I know, NewDahn is staffed by people like some of the people here - former masters and insiders who want to warn other people. Remember, in Korea Lee's Dahn is older and more widespread than in the US and Lee enjoys more power and control, and so there are bound to be more people with horror stories to tell. And the level of devotion and obedience expected and gained from masters there might be higher than in the US.

Why don't you write to them and ask them to provide an introduction of who they are on their site, if they haven't already done that.

You don't have to believe the 1999 Story. Hold it in reserve in your mind and see if the pieces don't fit later when you have more information. But please don't insult the integrity of people who have nothing to gain and everything to lose by speaking out publicly. If you find some misinformation in the 1999 story or in any page that NewDahn posts, you can point that out to them. They have a forum, unlike Ilchi Lee's websites.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 08:32 pm:

"Where/how was this letter obtained?"

What I was told was that the author, the ex-master, sent it out just to other masters, but it found it's way to the public Internet. Someone posted on this board before about how Dahn made her suffer for it and she wouldn't speak of Dahn again (but I don't know any details of how she was treated - it's not hard to imagine).

My heart goes out to her. I, for one, extend my support to her publicly here.

I don't think it reads like a fiction story at all; in fact I find it hard to follow in some places with so many names and all.

Save this board to your harddrive often and copy/paste documents from NewDahn. People can open Blogs with the documents if Lee manages to shut down this or the NewDahn websites.

Keep reading NewDahn because I have a feeling that this story is just one small piece of the puzzle.

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 07:25 pm:

I'm not questioning the ex-master's credibility.
What I mean is, it sounds like a story that I could write! (or anyone else with a good imagination and basic knowledge about Dahnhak)
How do we even know that a *real* ex-master wrote this?

I'm not saying Dahn is acceptible.
I'm just wondering about the letter.
Where did they get the letter?
Who created newdahn.com?

Sorry, I need more info before I believe a story.

BUT... not believing this story does not mean that I support Dahnhak.
On the contrary, I see a lot of the WRONG and CREEPY things they do, without having read this story.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 07:19 pm:

dahnmember says: "the stuff in the story is so horribly stereotypical for how we see cults.
I'm sure Lee is a bad man but who is so sure this story is credible?"

Is it "stereotypical?" Or is it simply "typical" of cults? I think typical, and it fits with all the other cult-like things some people have reported about Dahn.

I find it INcredible that some people can find Dahn acceptable at all. Take Lee's claim that he spent 21 days with no food, no water, and no sleep. That is NOT credible. So, the 1999 ex-master tells us that a devotee of Lee's in Korea tried to enlighten himself, after somehow insulting the grandmaster (god?) Lee, by emulating Lee, by spending 21 days fasting with no water or food or sleep. That IS credible that a total devotee would believe Lee's fasting claim and would try to accomplish this himself, especially if made to feel that he hurt Lee in some way. It IS credible that he would die if he tried to do this. Lee would have died too if he actually had done that.

I'm only surprised to read her story because I didn't suspect that Lee would go that far or stoop that low, but it's perfectly credible, and typical of cult leaders. It's called narcissism - typical, not stereotypical, of an overblown EGO.

Questioning the ex-master's credibility is the same exact thing as questioning the credibility of people here who have shared their stories, or on Rick Ross. Blaming the victims and blaming the messengers - much easier, I guess, than accepting that you spent money and time and energy supporting a manipulative and potentially dangerous, narcissistic businessman.

At this point I see no reason not to believe her. I put it in the box with the circumstances and aftermath of Julia's death and her story becomes even more credible. Remember Julia? No remorse shown. No accountability shown. Completely forgotten, if not for Rick Ross's quiet little notice.

JUSTICE FOR JULIA AND ALL THE OTHER VICTIMS OF DAHN!

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 07:11 pm:

No; I read about his 1993 arrest for selling food while not authorized as a food productions company or something, and then "liscentiousness" (the act not specified)

What does that have to do with this though?

I don't doubt Ill Chi is a bad man.

But I can't necessarily believe everything I find on the internet.
That letter sounds like a fiction novel- just in the way it's written.

I'm not saying that the letter is fake either. I just can't jump to conclusions.
Where/how was this letter obtained?

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 07:02 pm:

Dahnmember; did you read about lee's arrest on this board?

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 06:59 pm:

I'm just saying, does anyone here for sure know that the story is real?

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 06:56 pm:

Some people just can't stand to hear the truth. And if they don't want to hear it, they say it is negative.
No one here that I am aware off is looking to get famous or make money at the expense of anyone.
Dahnmember please be careful, you seem to be playing with fire. You know what they say about people who fish in muddy waters and the type of dirty fish they catch?

Please try to have compassion for the master who exposed herself at terrible expense while those of us remain anonymous.

By BoSoPoThxToDaHo on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 06:40 pm:

I'm perplexed that so many people are offended by the views expressed on this Message Board.
What do people usually do when they get screwed?
They get mad! And then they get even!

Is this some unknown esoteric principle? Is this aspect of human nature yet to be studied empirically?

I've pretty much known about it since I was a little kid!

Man! Don't leave mad, Mr. "Ciao"! Just go get an ancestral liberation ritual for $15,000., come back and let us know how it worked out.

We're venting here, Shim-Sung style...

Cheers, dammit!
BoPeep

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 05:43 pm:

((ANTI-U.S.? U.S. IMPERIALISTS? SMASH THE U.S.? Gee, I thought they LIKED us!))

Undahnted: Face it, nobody likes us.

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 05:39 pm:

maybe it's a Korean thing :-P
i mean, it's translated...

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 05:33 pm:

Why do they call it "SUPRISE" sounds creepy, goofy.
Why not here is the "Shit" or Da/n on the "Down Low"

))--((

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 04:19 pm:

Here are just two cases of suicide mentioned in "Surprise".
###########################################
Another incident involved SukJ.-jang. He had a difficult time adjusting to life within the organization.
He therefore got permission to go independent. But he failed.
He wanted to come back into the organization once more. We accepted. But he committed suicide.
On the surface, it was ruled a traffic accident. But we knew that it wasn’t.
He was one of the very first member also.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
SooH. Jin was an older master than me – he became a master before me.
While in the US, he didn’t use the Dahn sign but used another name. This was a complete act of betrayal.
He went to Susungnim and confessed and apologized. As a punishment, he was demoted and told to not work in a
Dahn center but go find a job in a regular American shop. But he could still live in a Dahn Center. Shortly afterwards,
however, he came back to Korea and went into a cave for 21 day no-food, no-sleep training, vowing that he would
become enlightened. Then he died.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 04:18 pm:

((Nobody would make this stuff up. Why would they?))

People could make this up because they are bitter about their experiences with Dahn.
I mean come on, the stuff in the story is so horribly stereotypical for how we see cults.
I'm sure Lee is a bad man but who is so sure this story is credible?

And whether the story is true or not, Dahnhak will have it off the internet no matter what, as soon as they find out about it.

I don't want to go to Shim Sung this weekend.
But I wonder if I contact 20/20 about it, and they'd want me to be some kind of insider spy.
I mean, Shim Sung DOES seem to be one of the MOST cult-like things about Dahnhak.

By Undahnted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 04:10 pm:

Kim Ji Ha was a pretty cool cat and an excellent poet.I'm learning a LOT more about S. Korea with this web-searching!! Read the following, from 2005:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Withdrawal of U.S. Hostile Policy Urged
Pyongyang, February 21 (KCNA) -- reportedly called a news conference in front of the U.S. embassy in Seoul on Feb. 16, demanding the U.S. roll back its hostile policy towards the north. The speakers at the press conference said that the U.S. has no right to talk about other's possession of nukes as it has more nuclear weapons than any other countries in the world. "We will shatter the war moves of the U.S. imperialists to make 2005 the year of reunification with national pride no matter what others may say," they declared. Accusing the U.S. of pulling up the north over its access to nukes, talking about the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula only, they held that if humankind is to be free from the nuclear threat, the U.S. should take, first of all, a practical step to eliminate its nukes of its own accord.
They called on all Koreans to achieve independent reunification by their concerted efforts to smash the U.S. ceaseless interference and war moves.
At the end of the press conference, Kim Ji Ha, chairman of the National Reunification Committee of the south Korean Federation of University Student Councils, held a one-by-one demonstration before the U.S. embassy, urging the renunciation of the U.S. hostile policy toward the north.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(RECAP)
The Anti-U.S. and Anti-War Solidarity Council for the Withdrawal of the U.S. Troops in south Korea...
"We will shatter the war moves of the U.S. imperialists..."
...They called on all Koreans to achieve independent reunification by their concerted efforts to smash the U.S. ceaseless interference and war moves.

Note that this is the SOUTH Korean newspaper. ANTI-U.S.? U.S. IMPERIALISTS? SMASH THE U.S.? Gee, I thought they LIKED us!

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 04:06 pm:

Did you read the "Surprise" story at www.newdahn.com/usa ? The rest of the story is there now.

By Mr.c on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 03:00 pm:

What! someone wrote about suicides in Dahn. Is this true that some masters commited suicide? Or is suicide used as a word for leaving the organization. Wow I can't believe that.
yeh I remember leaving dahn and feeling lost in space and depressed. later I got over it but it took a crazy long time.
ex Spiritual prisoner
***

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 02:36 pm:

"sure and dahn people drink blood and eat babies."

Hey, no one here said anything about them "drinking" blood and "eating" babies. That is soooooo negative of you! The question is whether or not they have ordered violence and/or used psychological manipulation and/or turned a blind eye to "spill" blood and if they have coerced woman to "abort" babies. Let's just get that straight.

Anon cult-apologist, what can you add to the discussion here to present the facts and the truth about Dahn?

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 02:30 pm:

> On a lighter Note: What Dahn Regional Master can sell Rain in Seattle as well as Heat in Texas???

I know who you mean -)). This is so true.

By HealerNoMore on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 01:48 pm:

What anti dahn cult? Are you offended by our experiences? How long have you been with dahn? Most of us here are sharing our experiences and trying to warn other potential victims of dahn abuse. Yes, ABUSE! Keep your eyes open while doing your service at the center. Ask many questions and expect real answers and not some eastern philosophy BS, like focus on you donjon.

Dahn abuses its members on a regular basis. They manipulate the members time and financial resources. Some families have been broken apart by dahn. We can now believe that lee is a rapist and a con man. Can he be prosecuted under the RICO act? Did they tell the masters who were smuggling money how much of a penalty was involved? How about the masters who enter green card marriages? Do the American masters know they face up to five years in federal prison if they are caught?

Everything the story of 1999 suggests sounds very feasible. I have experienced similar circumstances and that is why I am no longer there. I wish I could have my time spent in their service back, but that will not happen.

In the meantime, I will try to warn everyone I can of the dangers of dahn. Why are there so many masters committing suicide at dahn? Could it be that lee is the biggest POS to walk the earth in a long time. I think so.

It will be a test to see how they handle the Julia Siverls case. Will they handle it the way they handle everyone else by putting the blame on the victim. (This probably accounts for the suicides.) I think they will because dahn has proven itself to me by doing this to many members in the past.

They have nothing to do with healing and everything to do with making money and controlling their members.

They will not change because as the saying goes there is a sucker born every minute. lee knows this and takes great advantage of those needing help in this society.

When lee and dahn are done with you they will dispose of you and move on to the next victim.

Please do your research on this dangerous group.

It is not a coincidence they have such a high turnover rate among members.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 12:55 pm:

ann; 12;21

Please share your experiences with Dahn before you leave?

Thanks
Waiting to hear!!!

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 12:21 pm:

sure and dahn people drink blood and eat babies. what's the point in leaving dahn only to join an anti-dahn cult and give up all semblance of critical thinking? too much negative nonsense on this board for me. ciao.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 10:44 am:

"If it was untrue that website would be closed down pronto."

Actually, I think some Korean websites have been shut down before, by Dahn. Truth may or may not have something to do with it.

The 1999 Story is someone's story, including her own perceptions and opinions. Does she sound credible in light of other things you know or hear reported? Did she have anything to gain by writing this disclosure? She doesn't exactly show herself in a good light. It discloses very personal behavior on her part too.

I have no problem believing every word she says. Much of what she reported was hearsay, and she doesn't try to hide that fact. She reported on many things that other people told her. She obviously trusted that they were telling her the truth, and it fit with what she herself was experiencing.

She comes across to me like an honest person with nothing to gain and everything to lose (maybe even her life!) by coming out with her story.

I believe her.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 09:45 am:

On a lighter Note:

What Dahn Regional Master can sell Rain in Seattle as well as Heat in Texas???

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 09:39 am:

It is my belief that the reason they make YEHA so cheap is becuase they know the young ones don't have the money, but what they do have, is time, vulnerablility, few ties and commitments, and they are a blank slate, so-to-speak. I've seen this at my center. They will even pay for their trip and bend over backwards to make trips like that happen for the young poor ones and make it look like it's out of love and commitment to your process, but all it really is is an investment. A small price to pay if it means they can get someone to commit their life to the practice and to the vision.

This is happeneing to a sweet dear young man in my area and I just hope he gets much stronger emotionally before he wakes up to what is being done to him. Otherwise I fear it could be the death of him. He was suicidal to start with.

YOU MUST UNDERSTAND! Everything they do has an ulterior motive. They do not care about the individual. You are just a number, a potential dahndroid or donator or both. It's also important to realize that no matter how much you may be aware of what is going on, if you continue to subject yourself to the brainwashing, you are still vulnerable. Like the cult specialist on Rick Ross website said, "NOONE IS IMMUNE TO BEING BRAINWASHED!"

IF anyone is going to remain in the Dahn system, I hope it is only to be an insider spy and get as much evidence as possible to get onto 20/20.

Nuff said for now,
Still PO'D

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 09:33 am:

Nobody would make this stuff up. Why would they? If it was untrue that website would be closed down pronto.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 09:29 am:

Once a sex abuser almost always one. It is not about love and sex it is about absolute power and control.

By Dahn member on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 09:20 am:

Do you guys know for sure that this letter is legitimate?

I mean... what if it's just written by someone who is bitter and wants to bring Dahnhak down faster?

I really have a hard time believing the sexual things... but then again they could very well be true.
The incidents of violence do not really surprise me at all.
But the sexual incidents the author describes sound so cliched - the kind of cult-type sexual actions that I would almost expect.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 08:11 am:

His full name is provided in the earlier pages.

Search on "Kim Jiha" and more if you search on "Kim Ji Ha"

For example, found at: http://members.tripod.com/worldpoets/Korean%20Poet%20Jeung%20ho-Seung.htm

"In an age where democracy was buried so completely I was lost as to how I, as a poet, should be living. At that time I was able to meet a poet named Kim Jiha.

After publishing a poem longing for democracy, he is a poet who spent all of the 1970’s in prison."

In the back alley of a new morning
I write your name, oh Democracy
Long has my memory forgotten you
So long ago did my footsteps stray away from you
Only one strand is left
A memory of the thirst within my burning chest
I write your name in secret, oh Democracy.

In a back street where the sun is yet to rise
Footsteps, a crackle, a knock on the door
A cry of pain, the scream is so long
Upon your name, deeply engraved
Within a groan, a wail, a sigh, upon my chest
Upon the lonely dazzle of your name
Is the pain of a life lived
Are the memories of that blue freedom
Are the blood stained faces of our taken companions, now come back.
Shaking hand, shaking chest
With mouth clenched and shaking rage on a wooden plank
With clumsy hands I grasp chalk
I write
As I sob silently
I write your name in secret
With a burning thirst,
With a burning thirst,
Hurrah Democracy!

The above poem by the poet Kim Jiha is titled ‘With a burning thirst’. Through this poem I realised that poetry cannot turn away from the pain of reality, and it made me think about the tears and the agony of that time."

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 05:49 am:

http://www.newdahn.com/usa

I have only read two of the recent postings and I am already sick at my stomack. Yes America must stop HIM NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

I now remember my Regional going to Sedona after he had a very successful month. He said in his barely audible voice (you know the one they use when speaking of lee) "Grand Master Lee invited me to Sedona to play" Now I know what they were playing. SICK SICK SICK.

Those of you still on the fence; "its good for my body" "the masters are so nice" bla bla.
YOU MUST QUIT NOW AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK ASAP
STOP THE ABUSE

By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 04:00 am:

Maybe a letter is missing? Jiha or Jiho Kim?

By Bo on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 02:49 am:

"JiH. Kim"

is obviously an abbreviation for something else. It is not producing anything in engine searches.
Is anyone here familiar with this man? Do you know his real name or a nomme de plumme which he is published under? Thanks!

Bo

By BoPeep on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 02:24 am:

Good Day, all,
Read remainder of Myung Joo Cheon's story.
Can ANYBODY dig the following up?

(JiH. Kim is a famous poet known for his democratic and patriotic causes... JiH.Kim was originally impressed by Ilchi Lee’s
work on behalf of Dangun...JiH. Kim broke with Ilchi Lee in 1999 after a famous press conference accusing Ilchi Lee as an immoral fraud.)

Mr C. are you there? Surely this famous press conference from 1999 is in Korean print somewhere. This is what the AMERICANS need to see; another well-known Korean activist denouncing Ill-Chi as "an immoral fraud".
Rationale: If an American or other Nationality denounces him, they are "fueled by Racism and Nationalism..."

I will begin web search immediately on this poet/activist and see what I can dig up, but I have a feeling this press conference report will be hard to find, being 6 years old.

Wish me luck!
BoPeep

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 11:35 pm:

I just finished reading 1999 surprise on newdahn.com. I cannot even begin to describe how angry I feel. This lee is such a POS it goes beyond description.

I hope lee and his whole family of slugs gets punished by the laws of society. After which I hope they get punished by the cosmic law.

I will forward this site to every member I know and hope for the best. People should be informed about this creep.

He rapes masters and then orders them to have abortions. lee's mother should be slapped for not aborting him.

They commit violence on "betrayers", is this guy kidding? he is the biggest betrayer to humanity and his masters. Maybe his masters should throw him a "blanket" party in mago garden. Hopefully,what goes around comes around.

I wonder if his current masters know about his behavior. Do they condone this and accept this? If they do, they deserve all they get. They should be ashamed of themselves for tricking people into joining this vile,vile,vile organization.

Why is he always in Beijing? Is he trying to help the communists? He seems to run his organization that way. Any American who is still a member after reading this story does not deserve any sympathy. They are helping this anti American group to destroy the fabric of our great country.

I am so glad I got out when I did. I could not stand to be there after reading this story.

It also explains why Julia died. They care so little for their own members that they will put their lives at risk. As I said in an earlier post you are disposable while you work or attend dahn.

I hope Julia's family wins every penny of the $84 million.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 08:42 pm:

NewDahn posted more of the "1999 Story," if anyone wants to read it. www.NewDahn.com/usa

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 05:09 pm:

Hopeful posted this on July 15:
"I do not know if i can completely believe the pot story...........however, I remember when I was in healer school, we were all sitting eating dinner, and we just all started laughing HYSTERICALLY. I remember laughing so hard. We were all laughing and then laughing even harder because there was absolutely no "reason" for us all to be laughing. It was great, I assumed it was the whole"sedona thing" you know, like the highs and lows one could experience being there. So, as I read the pot story I immediately thought of this experience."

That happened in Healer School?
Because when I was in Sedona for YEHA Camp, the same thing happened to me and my dinner table.
We caught the stares of masters sitting around us, and they were kind of grinning... I assumed they were grinning because we were being immature or overjoyed, etc.... but WHAT IF?!?!?!?
LOL. I don't think I felt high though... I don't remember.
I'm supposed to go to the next camp August 18 and I kind of want to go.
It's really cheap for a Dahn thing too. Less than $200 for 5 days.
But then again, they can afford to pay that much when it comes to having 100+ potential disciples all in the same room.

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 04:58 pm:

She did ask me to take care of her sister since she won't be able to for the first 2 days her sister is here.

I said I couldn't though because I had decided to do something that weekend... I kind of want to speak to her sister though. It would be great if we teamed up to have an intervention.

I'm sure her sister would agree with me, because - get this - after she got her email from the regional dictator (or whatever) saying that she could not get the weekend off, she went to use the phone... I'm assuming she called her sister, because she pressed like 40 buttons and she seemed to be happy...but THEN... she started arguing, but trying to be the "peace-monger" Dahn makes her be, she couldn't really forcefully argue.. and guess what, whoever was on the other end hung up on her.
I'd be willing to bet it was her sister, and I'd also be willing to bet that her sister feels the same way I do.

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 03:58 pm:

I meant the heaven, earth and human part,not the bowing part. There is a paragraph in the enclosed website regarding the saying "Namaste".

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 03:10 pm:

That was me, HealerNoMore, answering my own question ;-)

anon 1:23 and 2:22

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 02:22 pm:

http://eng.koreatemple.net/culture/default.asp?cat_id=11

"On the outside ends of big buildings, up towards the roof, you will see three circles. These represent heaven, earth and man, the three important things that Dangun, the mythological founder of Korea, is supposed to have brought with him. They have come to represent the Buddha, his teaching and the community of Buddhists."

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 01:23 pm:

"You do three bows for Heaven,earth and human. This has nothing to do with Christianity. It has everything to do with the religion of dahn. If you are a practicing Christian you are actually committing a sin while doing this exercise."

Bowing isn't just a Dahn thing. Extensive bowing is common in Buddhism and bowing is shared by many ancient and modern cultures.

Does Christianity really regard bowing to the earth, humans, and heaven as a "sin?" If you're talking about the most restrictive fundamentalist view of Christianity, then maybe, but I am surprised to hear that mainstream Christians would see it that way.

But I can see how bowing to Lee as a god and to a statue of Dangun can be seen as non-Christian, or even a "sin."

I think the rest of what you wrote is so true!

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 12:50 pm:

How about a Play off Broadway? I want a part.

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 12:47 pm:

These kinds of books are better received if they have a title like.

Top 10 Stupid Things I did for Dahn.
and
What I refused to do for Dahn and Why.

Each person could share their top 10 with detail.

Could be real funny, and a bestseller without playing games with New York Times Best Seller list.

By SmileyBird on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 12:23 pm:

Has anybody thought of how this M.B. WOULD MAKE FOR A GREAT BOOK???

I'm serious! It's very...it's like reading a suspense novel, only it's REAL.
And it's very comical in places, also.
And it is, a friend told me, 409 pages long.
That's gotta be a World's record.

Think about it... any editors here?

SmileyBird

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 12:14 pm:

[I also asked her why she keeps stressing that I come and do 100 bows every morning at the center. I asked what bows do for me and what is the point of bowing every day. She said it was just to help with consistency- do the same thing every morning and you'll be more likely to be consistent with you life. That does make a lot of sense. But once I heard that people were bowing to Ilchi, it creeped me out.]

Bow training is a useful exercise by itself. It is done slowly using the "slow twitch" muscle fibers instead of the "fast twitch" muscle fibers. One is red and the other is white.(Not sure which one it is.) You will get a good stretch from this exercise.

When performed at the dahn center it is used to take away your thoughts and focus on your donjon. Is this a good thing? That depends on the person doing them. If you shut down your brain they(masters) will be able to fill it with their thoughts and ideas. How do you suppose so many members decide to become healers? They give up their rational thinking skills by doing 21,49 100,300,500 and 1000 bows for training. Keep doing this exercise everyday and they will have total control over your thoughts.

You do three bows for Heaven,earth and human. This has nothing to do with Christianity. It has everything to do with the religion of dahn. If you are a practicing Christian you are actually committing a sin while doing this exercise.

http://www.praisemoves.com/

Members feel great after this exercise due to the physical exertion required to complete a large number like 1000, but when you are done what does the jwjn ask of you? Join healer school or make some other comittment to the center. You don't realize it at the time but you gave away your critical thinking skills.

You can try to do it as a physical exercise, but I have seen jwjn tell members to stay focused on their donjon and not do it as physical activity. Why? If you do it this way they will lose control and influence over you.

Once you pass the healer school stage you will be bowing to lee. They will have his picture or one of dangun at the front of the room and you bow to it. Sometimes every night before you leave for the evening. This is when you find out you are a member of a religion and a cult.

By BoPeep on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 12:03 pm:

Cheers, Dears!
Dahn Member, you asked for advice; here's mine.

Don't ask for your check back, just stop payment on it ($20), make SURE it's stopped, then tell your JWJN that you have changed your mind and do not want to attend the workshop. Stick to your guns, no private room. Say it during "tea time", then make like a tree and leave.

Now, assuming you're attending classes, wait and see if he/she offers you your check back. My prediction: Ain't gonna happen. Wait about 10 days and then ask if you can have your check back.
Listen: It will be lost, or "accidentally deposited, so sorry..." What do you care, you stopped payment.

You have to say things without saying them. By doing this you are saying to JWJN "I no longer trust you to do the right thing."

Do this and learn the most valuable $20.00 lesson of your life!

Best of luck to you,
BoPeep

P.S. Don't try to save people that don't want to be saved. Just be there when they ARE ready. ;~]

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 11:53 am:

I have seen,heard and experienced the following:

You cannot go out with family because we have a meeting.

You cannot go out with family because we have a special training.

You cannot see your family,even though they traveled over 10,000 miles to see you because the center is more important.

You should not talk with members, unless it is to get them to sign up for shim sung,healer school,etc. Do not socailize with members because their energy is not high enough. (They still have money we need to swindle from them.)

Your family is not as important as your growth.
(Note: Families have been with you for in excess of 20 years caring for you and keeping you safe and sheltered. dahn has been with you how many weeks or months? This is a no brainer.)

The only one who can save the masters are themselves. They must wake up to the fact that lee is a fraud and a poor excuse for a human.

As long as they continue to go to their weekly meetings they will renew the brainwashing techniques upon themselves. This is the true purpose of the meetings. The meetings are designed to keep the masters from having any kind of freedom from the group. They can only go to movies or dinners if the leader says they can. It is often the leader who decides what movies or restaurants to go to. The leader decides what time to end the meetings and when to have special meetings or trainings.

This organization is far from normal. There are many, many legitimate companies who don't have meetings on Saturday nights that last well past midnite. They are all profitable and their employees are much happier than than masters of dahn. They do pretend to be happy because they are trained like dogs to do as they are told.

Once you leave the organization you will be free and happy. When you meet a master who is still in you will see the misery of their lives. They are able to hide it from the members because they keep members attention away from rational thought.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:57 am:

Just to clarify, dahnmember, I didn't mean to suggest that you should stop helping the woman if you can, but I suggest you not try to do it from the inside of Dahn. Self-preservation of your wallet and your well-being comes first.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:44 am:

Thank goodness your radar is kicking in, dahnmember! I am someone here who thought you could maybe stay and try to help this woman, but if she can't even break the dahn brainwashing enough to visit with her sister, she is not going to break it for you, like you are beginning to realize. I no longer think you should stay in Dahn to try to help her or for any other reason. That doesn't mean you have to stop being her friend, but I seriously doubt if she can be anyone's friend -- she is working for the "vision."

Does her sister speak English? Man, if it were me, I would try to make contact with her sister. I would bet my house...no, I better not do that again, um...I would bet my booties (whatever that means) that her sister is very worried about her being brainwashed by Dahn. In Korea, it is known among many as a dangerous cult.

The "vision" looks to me like nothing but the process of drawing other people into Dahn at ALL COSTS to recruit them to work for the vision (circular? yes it is) - using whatever it takes: high or low pressure sales techniques psychological manipulation, phony loving-bombing, gaining your complete dependency on Dahn mentally and then financially, testing people's vulnerability and gaining the obedience of those most vulnerable, etc.

Your "true self" = what you FIND when you give up all and suffer for the vision.

A "new human" = what you ARE when you give up all to work on the vision.

"Principles" = what you HAVE when you give up all and suffer to work on the vision.

The ultimate goal of the vision = One World Peace. A utopian society consisting of people all worshipping and obeying the 48th Dangun-god, Ilchi Lee. (Today 100 bows, tomorrow 1000).

Ahh, but what could be more peaceful than subjugating yourself all day to the worship and commands of Ilchi Lee? So what if Lee gets to live it up on wealth and power? Doesn't he deserve it for leading the world to the Vision of working for the Vision to meet the Vision? (Catch me; I'm getting dizzy!) What can be more peaceful than mindless dependence and obedience? Hey, babies like it, and so do trained monkeys in the zoo.

The "Vision" = World Blind Obedience to Ilchi Lee.

I hereby declare August 2 World BOIL day, in honor of the Dahn "vision" of World Blind Obedience to Ilchi Lee.

Happy World BOIL day everyone!

By bead on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:17 am:

"DAMN what a power trip, having all these people bow down to you all the time!"

All the better to suck your life force dry, my dear! Cults like this foster "psychic vampires," people who, instead of earning it, steal (one, some or all of the following) respect, prestige, service, sexual favours and money from their student/victims. Sad...

By Dahn member on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 01:53 am:

btw i'm reading several comments from a few weeks ago.

i'm a YEHA member.
it's actually quite enjoyable when we're given free time to socially interact, and we do lots of fun activities. only now and then it becomes weird.
and yes, during sharing times, i have said several times that i wanted to be a healer or dahn instructor, etc. crazy what they can make you believe... and i thought i had come up with the idea on my own...

By Dahn member on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 11:57 pm:

Advice please :-(

I'm sad... actually I don't care if people know who I am from what I say, I'm going to tell my story of what's happening lately. Then maybe I can get some advice.

1. I spoke to a senior member about Shim Sung and WHY I even need to go to it at all.. how will that "grow my soul"? She said it helped her change a lot and that I "definitely should do it".
I also asked her why she keeps stressing that I come and do 100 bows every morning at the center. I asked what bows do for me and what is the point of bowing every day. She said it was just to help with consistency- do the same thing every morning and you'll be more likely to be consistent with you life. That does make a lot of sense. But once I heard that people were bowing to Ilchi, it creeped me out.

2. My Sabumnim's sister is coming in from Korea for only a week. She wanted to take the weekend off to spend with her sister, but there is a "Very Important" monthly regional masters meeting that weekend. So they won't let her miss the meeting to see her sister. A meeting like that only comes by once a month, you know...must be VERY IMPORTANT *rolls eyes*
I straight out asked her, "so, your masters meeting is more important than your sister?"
SHE SAID YES.
But she still seemed distressed about her sister, so I asked what would happen if she simply blew off the meeting anyway. She said she would not get in trouble but they would be upset with her. So I said, "then, oh well, let them be upset, just go anyway".
She sat for a moment and then told me to forget the conversation altogether, because it might interfere with my training. I said ok and she seemed surprised...I think she understands that I probably know more than she thinks.

I think she's probably too far gone to be saved. I feel so bad for her. Should I tell her that? Should I still offer help?
You guys are right. Lee IS a monster.
He must have had no family- he seems to get jealous when those around him GENUINELY love people.
DAMN what a power trip, having all these people bow down to you all the time!

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 11:40 pm:

To those of you who are still Dahn members and willing to continue supporting an organization that has hurt so many and continues to take advantage of the vulnerable, PLEASE RECONSIDER!!! You can clearly see from reading on this website that there is somthing very wrong going on there.

I dont' deny that the exercise are helpful. But they aren't Dahn's. They are a compilation of other practices that have been around for a very long time. But when you take these practices and try to put a patent on them and use the healing practices to take advantage of people, it is CRIMINAL! Don't be another pawn in Lee's game.

If you have found this website, you can see how much harm is being done out there. I've known people who have tried to make changes for over 5 yrs and they don't listen becuase they don't care. They have a mission and it is not to bring peace on earth, it's for Lee to make as much money as he possibly can. Big difference.

Lee has lost his marbles. He may have started out with good intentions but if you look at history, so many of these gurus fall after gaining fame and fortune. Lee is one of the many fallen. Rev Moon was also one, and OSHO, and so many others. Just be aware. There is so much good out there to be a part of, don't feed into this destructive cult.

Please consider what I am saying here.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 11:38 pm:

Sorry I didn't express myself clearly, my mind
works faster than my fingers. I should explain further that in my area, all the local centers
send members once a month to the same shim sung
held at one of the centers or a local hotel if
there are twenty-five or more attending. There-
fore, all the local masters, plus the Regional
director who happens to be located here, are
usually there and participating along with
volunteer staff members who are asked to help.

If there is confusion, please ask. I wouldn't
want any misunderstanding. The truth is strange
enough.
cat

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 11:08 pm:

Whew! I'm glad I asked. I feel a little better now, but still it does seem like a dog symbolically urinating on someone. I think the context is important, to understand what they were "really" trying to do with that exercise. Were they trying to confront everyone on how that action only looks like a dog peeing because we all have preconceptions about that position? Or were they trying to degrade everyone, like telling them they are worthless enough to be pee'ed upon?

Sorry for all the questions. It just seems too bizarre. Thanks for explaining. I think I get it now.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 10:58 pm:

No, he did not literaly urinate, just lifted his
leg like a dog, then crawled on all fours to the
next person and lifted his leg again. The local masters all took turns being directors of the
monthly shim sungs. The Regional Director was
always there also, although he wasn't in the
room when we were practicing. The "directing"
master said he had done it before in another
state at shim sung. He had directed several
shim sungs when I was on staff and this was the
first time I had ever seen it.

As staff, we were to demonstrate to the shim sung
member attendees before they did the bridge game themselves. It was another staff person (he thought it was funny) who
did it at the actual demonstration in front
of the member attendees. The member attendee left
after the actual demonstration.

I still haven't decided what possible preconcieved idea I had other than it was what
it was....a person on all fours lifting his leg
like a male dog and pretending to pee on another
person.
cat

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 10:12 pm:

Cat, am I reading this right? Are you saying that the director of the Shim Sung training (or of the Sedona Meditation Center?) wanted you to actually urinate on the participants of the training?! And are you saying that the director then urinated on one of the participants, to demonstrate? And one of the participants (just one?) left the training after that?

I believe you but it sounds so f'ed up that I can hardly stand what I think you're saying.

Is this director still directing? When you say "director," do you mean someone who is an official of the Dahn Institute? Was this a common thing or just something that this one director thought to do that one time?

I'm shocked.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 08:06 pm:

Re shim sung: I was on staff for eight or nine
of them and until the last one really felt that
it was the "turn around for me". I encouraged
all the members to at least do that workshop.
I now realize we were exposing their vulnerability and new members were exposing
so much of their private lives to complete
strangers, some of it to be used as a lever for
more workshops and "healings". Most of the
volunteer staff were very sincere but being
human, gossip is gossip and there was discussion.
Even your partner is encouraged to be someone
you don't know and you're revealing very intimate information to Dahn members who at
a less emotional time, you would prefer he/she
didn't know.
The reason I stopped staffing was during the staff practice for the bridge game I was told
by the "director" master he wanted me to do
something different for the demonstration and he would show me.
I think I was considered to be a bit standoffish
and possibly even a snob by some of the masters.
I had been told I was complicated. I did
ask a lot of questions. The director got down
on his hands and knees, got up very close to
the person and lifted his leg. I told him I
wasn't comforable peeing on the new members or
anyone else and if someone did it to me, I would be insulted and that I thought it was crude.
He said it was just my preconceptions and he
thought I should do it. It was a crossed arm
standoff with all the staff members and masters
not saying a word. He finally said it was my choice but hoped I would change my mind, "it would be very effective coming from me". As it
turned out another person demonstrated it before
it became my turn. One of the new members did
leave and never came back to Dahn. I was quietly
punished for the rest of shim sung and his attitude toward me was never the same whenever I
saw him. I never did staff another shim sung
even though I was encouraged by my center's master to write the director a letter telling
him how I felt, then tear it up. As she hugged
me, she said I was such a baby. She asked me, as
a favor to her before she left (this one was
only there three or four months)
to promise that I would do the next one. I didn't promise.

After three years, close to $40,000, another
new master, and many more experiences, it took
me another three months to leave.
cat

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 06:49 pm:

no drama queen here. I was the good girl.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 06:49 pm:

no drama queen here. I was the good girl.

By Dahn member on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 06:23 pm:

Oh, and I've never gotten that "drama queen" thing from masters.
Well they've never said it in THOSE words at least.
But they have insinuated that I've been acting like one.

For DahnGood- a "drama queen" is someone who is melodramatic, always makes a huge deal about small unimportant things, and blows things way out of proportion.

By Dahn member on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 06:17 pm:

JWJN = ji-won-jang-nim = head master.
usually the most pushy and possesing the least amount of human qualities. lives solely for the progress of the center.

i'm taking bets on what they do when i ask for my check back.
anyone have any guesses?
i'll let you know what happened after i do it...

By DahnGood on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 05:48 pm:

BoPeep,

What does "drama queen..." mean?

By DahnGood on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 05:47 pm:

Dear Dahn member.

As a Dahn member myself (I am a healer), I would recommend you to attend Shim Sung.
I took Shim Sung too long time ago, and it was really good to me. Many years have passed since then, but it has affected me so much on my daily life.
I can see there are many people here blaming Dahn in this board, but still many people who have experienced benefit from it too.
Dahn member, it is you to decide it.
For the fee of Shim Sung training,,, I think the money is worth it.

But, if your financial status doesn't allow you to go the training, you attend the training later... You can ask your JWJN not to push you too much...

By BoPeep on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 04:43 pm:

Taking a Survey:

Has anyone here ever heard the expression, "Don't be a drama queen..." from your JWJN or SBN?

Doesn't seem like a Korean-esque cliche.

Just wondering....

Cheers, dears!
BoPeep

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 04:39 pm:

to 4:37

just leave. Walk out the door. This is a f***cked up group of people and a f***cked up CULT. Get out while you can.
It makes me sick. Honor Freedom. Do not support human slavery in any form. Tell everyone you know what they represent.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 04:37 pm:

what is a JWJN?

What is the difference between that and "master"

By Dahn member on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 04:18 pm:

That's the thing, I DONT have $350 that i just want to throw away. On the contrary, my JWJN made me take out a loan and pushed me to do it. Unfortunately, a while ago I insinuated that I'd be getting more money since I have a job now :-/

I think I'll tell her that I can't afford to go... who wants to bet on what happens when I ask for my check back????

If they start giving me the cold shoulder for this, then I'll know what's up.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 01:40 pm:

Good work, anon 11:55.

By DahnGood on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 01:40 pm:

Hello, I spent many hours to read the board. Wow,, I am surprised.

From many years of my practice, I would say that there are still much benefit which members can take from Dahn.

In many aspects, Dahn needs to be changed. I don't like Dahn as a whole as it is. However, it is very good training, and there are very good masters in Dahn. Yeah, some masters need more training. However, I like many sa bom mims who I know of.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 11:55 am:

response from New York times regarding sales of Human Technology.

Thanks for your note, which the public editor passed on to me.

We do have a variety of means to detect when someone is trying to boost their sales with the intention of getting onto our best seller lists in a not-entirely-legitimate manner. This includes tip-offs from messages like yours, which we appreciate, as well as reports from booksellers and other red flags. (We don't go into our methods in depth, to avoid tipping off the people who try to manipulate the
list.)

Our goal is to report sales made as the result of independent decisions by individual book-shoppers. When we suspect that bulk sales for special events or by special interest groups have been a substantial part of a book's reason for appearing on the list, we mark the listing with a dagger to tip readers off to that.

Thanks again for taking the time to write. / Rich Meislin

--
Rich Meislin
Editor, News Surveys & Election Analysis The New York Times
212 556 5154
meislin@nytimes.com

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 11:34 am:

To the Dahn member who is wanting to go to Shim Sung, if you have 350 bucks to burn, go. But just be aware, this is the place where they really stick it to the members. Their soul purpose of shim sung is not to help you find your true self, but to brainwash you into believing that your true self is a healer and that you should go to healer school. 10k right there. at least these time share scams have the integrity to offer you free gifts when they plan to turn you over and do you dry. Dahn charges you hundreds of dollars and tells you it's to SAVE YOUR SOUL, when all they want is to possess your soul so you can contribute to lee's empire. It's CRIMINAL! It's RAPE! SOUL RAPE, MIND RAPE, and like someone pointed out earlier, there has got to be a law protecting people from this kind of thing. There are laws strictly regulating mental health workers and religious organizations, but some dude from Korea can come along and pull this shit and get away with it. God bless America, I am very happy to be a citizen, and very liberal minded at that, but there should be laws and regulations to protect people from monsters like Lee.

Still POed!!!!

By Stillahealer on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 07:50 am:

Just another thought.
Your JWJN and Sabnim may be playing Good Cop Bad Cop. This keeps you off balance while they evaluate your level for the next step. The JWJN takes away the love you need, and the Sabum gives it to you. The Sabum asking you to keep secrets indicates an intimate relationship; thereby gaining your trust.
Or best case the Sabum is a free spirit who is longing for some normal interaction.

Nobody knows for sure. In my experience your every comment, thought, interaction is reported to the JWJN. I found that such a violation of Trust.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 02:23 am:

This is just my opinion, off the top of my head, but I think that if you want to help her, you have to get past the idea that friends don't "pry." Friends tell each other their personal history and experiences and deep feelings. Ask her about her family, what she used to like to do before Dahn, how she got involved, and invite her to do things, normal things, like...I don't know...bowling, movies, walks in the park, the country fair, bike riding, dipping your feet in a creek, site-seeing, whatever normal non-Dahn people do with their precious time on this Earth.

By Dahn member on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 01:37 am:

Oh to Anon 12:04-
She is not the JWJN and she has to hide a lot of what she does from our JWJN, because she seems to want a life outside of Dahn, but she is WELL TRAINED to worship Dahn. I hope she does not become a JWJN but I know she will soon. I wish I could save her and some of the people who are in so deep. I really feel compassion for them.
If she is moved for *violating her master/member relations rules* or if they make me bow to Ilchi, I will quit.
But as of now- I haven't really paid for much. They know I'm poor and let me volunteer, I don't do much, and I have not paid for classes in months.

She was not the one pushing me to do Shim Sung- it was my JWJN. Actually my SBN never pushes me to do anything and never critcizes me... even when I think she's looking at me and being critical (my JWJN watches me and later comments that I'm doing something wrong, like talking to the members too much) my SBN just seems curious.
She only said something to me once about Shim Sung, and it was something like, I should set some kind of goal in my life. But she doesn't ask me for anything and doesn't pressure me to promote the center.

When we chill together she's actually interested in me teacher her things. I don't ask her personal questions but then again, she never pries either.
But she has straight out told me that a lot of stuff she does is not allowed for the masters and that I must never tell anyone.

Wow I'm addicted to reading this stuff.

What I'm most amazed at is the 1999 "Surprise" story and how it mentions sexual relations among masters.
I became curious about this a while back, and on one hand, I could see them as being totally neuter and celibate...some seem really cold. But others, I could see them totally engaging in orgies. I really want to know what goes on on the inside, but I guess in order to do that, I'd have to get to the inside, which, by that point, I'd probably be so brainwashed that I'd accept anything.
Am I the only person who's so curious about this?

By Dahn member on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 01:19 am:

I can't stop reading this site.
With all the 1000+ responses to this post, I've been reading for HOURS.
Each person seems to be saying the same thing for the most part, but I want to hear everyone's accounts.

And something about this Shim Sung seems stragely attractive to me. I kind of want to go now...but at the same time, I kind of just want to blow it off.
I guess that's where the phrase "curiosity killed the cat" comes in.

By Anonymous on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 12:04 am:

Even if people here tell you stories of betrayal by Dahn masters who seemed to love them, you still won't know if this is happening in your case. It sounds to me like your decision to go to Shim Sung is hinging on how you feel about this master. I don't think they should be connected. If she likes you and wants to be a true friend of yours, then it shouldn't make any difference if you go to Shim Sung or not, right? You should be able to say no to their trainings for whatever reason, and even quit Dahn if you want, and a true friend would remain a true friend.

I am very suspicious of the games Dahn masters play, so I am not the one to advise you, other than to suggest that you use the same standards for a friendship with a Dahn master as you would with someone not affiliated with Dahn. When you are together, are you the main one sharing about yourself?

BIG Red flag = having to hide her friendship with you from the regional manager and other masters. What the heck is that all about? How did she get to that point where she has to sneak a social life outside of Dahn?

Good luck. I hope you aren't in too deep with this master and can still separate your Dahn purchasing decisions from your friendship needs.

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 11:51 pm:

A regular master may not be faking it as far as friendship goes. I was friends with a couple of masters outside the center. It was to be kept secret from the other masters so they wouldn't get into trouble. If the jwjn found out it might have resulted in a transfer. It is when they become jwjn that you must be careful. They go through some type of metamorphosis and focus 100% on the center and making money.

I knew one master who was like Jekyll and Hyde when made a jwjn. This jwjn lost many fans with the new approved behavior.

Once they are jwjn they must dedicate themselves that much more diligently to the vision. They will lose their last shred of humanity. There are more meetings,trainings,etc. More sacrifices in general if you can believe it.

I thought I was sincerely loved also. When I left I found out the truth. I also realized how I was used by a person whom I gave my complete trust. It Hurts. The truth hurts. Then the real healing and freedom from tyranny begins.

I cannot express how much freer I felt after I left the center. It was like being reborn into a bright new world.

I believe many masters really believe they are healing humanity by hugging and I love you's. They will change when they become jwjn.

I have heard that dahn now offers loans to members, with interest of course. Does anybody here owe dahn money in the form of a loan? This is another way for them to enslave members and take money before they become aware of how bad and immoral this organization really is.

It is my belief that Julia was the first to die during master training. I have spoken with several American masters and I was told that in previous master trainings there were close calls with death. This is normal operating procedure for dahn. They push you as close to death as possible in order to prove yourself and if you survive it is a badge of courage. Read Heaven Within.

I believe that Julia's death was a result of negligence on the part of dahn. They have been negligent on previous master training classes. I don't think they were counting on a death during the training.

If they discontinued the training hike, what type of training are they now doing to prove your worth?

Something to ponder.

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 11:05 pm:

I think all I can decide right now is to immediately stop going if she turns out to be faking- but it seems like a stretch- more genuine, and no "i love yous".

My JWJN asked me to go to Shim Sung next month, but do you think I should put it off until I'm more sure about it?

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 08:36 pm:

"too friendly" = acting like she's actually my friend.
crossing the "master/student" boundary.
calling me and hanging out, etc.
she told me to not tell the head master and to never talk about it when i'm at the center.

i feel like everyone will be able to ID me by what i'm saying- Dahn is such a small world- I see all these people on here who were at the yeha camp- well i was there too.

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 08:13 pm:

First, don't go to the usa site, go to www.newdahn.com, and then, on a bluish button to the right of the word "Surprise," you see the word More. You can see where they list the pages of the story, but you have to log on to see the pages. I didn't bother because I can't read Korean.

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 08:08 pm:

HELP HELP HELP
AM LOOKING ALL OVER FOR THE WORD "MORE" NEXT TO SURPRISE TO FIND REST OF LETTER. WHERE IS IT?
TALKING BOUT NEWDAHN.COM OF COURSE.

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 07:49 pm:

"P.S. i think i got my SBN in trouble for being "too friendly" with her...that's what leads me to think she's not a fake. She does all this stuff that seems controversial and then tells me not to tell my JWJN because it's not allowed. Of course I'm not that dumb... but could this still be an act?"

"Dahn member," could you be more descriptive, without giving away who you are?

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 07:47 pm:

Dear Dahnmember,
I am so glad that you have found this site and are hopefully still reading. I understand why you might be feeling guilty. The staff had a way of making me and many I spoke to, feel indebted to them. That is how they get you hooked in. They love bomb you, fulfilling a need that is unmet when we found Dahn. They (seemingly) do so much for us and it seems to be genuine and sincere and caring. I think they actually have convinced themselves that they care about you. But the underlying motive is the money and your loyalty.

I think one of the most painful realizations for me was in seeing how they went from a full year of "I love you! I care about you! We love you! We are you're family" to complete and total blow off and shut out when I told them why I was leaving. Even when I was crying and saying how hard it was because I still loved them so much and believed they loved me back" At first, they were warm and loving and patient, listening and then saying everything they could to get me to change my mind. When they realized nothing was working and they had lost me, it was like I didn't even exist anymore. I went thru professional healer school and volunteered there for almost a year. I meant nothing to them. Now I know that.

I have heard stories of people who went to the masters in Sedona with their questions and doubts. They tried to change their minds too but when it didn't happen quickly, DONE! A friend of mine poured her heart and soul out into a letter to one of the masters at Sedona after meeting with him there. He NEVER responded.

There is a reason why you found Dahn. There is a reason we all did. And we all have taken our lessons with us. You will take yours as well. and maybe your time with them is not done. But I just hope that with what you are reading here, you will be more cautious with your bank account and think twice before you let them suck you too deeply into the abyss.

I will pray for you and trust that all will turn out just as it is supposed to.

Many blessings.

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 07:05 pm:

It looks like all 32 pages of the Korean version of the 1999 Story is on the NewDahn site, at www.newdahn.com, if you click on "More" next to the word Surprise. Anyone here read Korean?

By Undahnted on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 06:51 pm:

Dear Dahn Member,

Why do you suppose you feel guilty?
Guilt is of the ego. They've got yor ego hooked, hooked, hooked.
Next time you feel guilty ask yourself, "Is enlightenment only for rich people?" "Do push-ups have anything to do with enlightenment?" "Did Jesus order his Disciples to stand around slapping their bellies?" There are a million "reality check" questions you can ask yourself to get off that hook.

For me, it came down to this: either my ex-JWJN was the World's greatest actress or she is 100% convinced that what she is saying is true.
I think she is DELUSIONAL, but she thinks I am IGNORANT. HMMMM, sounds like an impasse to me. What are the chances I'll change her mind or vice-versa? Guess I'll take my Chakra blocked Meridian f'd up body and money elsewhere.

No harm, no foul. Just cut your losses and leave!

Best Wishes,
Undahnted

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 06:08 pm:

I feel guilty for even posting on this site. X-/

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 05:42 pm:

The 1999 "Surprise" story:
I heard it was 32 pages long but they only have 13 of them translated into English. Does anyone know if the same thing is printed out on the Korean newdahn website?
Good idea, show it to masters who seem to be open-minded, and then ask them if the stuff is true.

P.S. i think i got my SBN in trouble for being "too friendly" with her...that's what leads me to think she's not a fake. She does all this stuff that seems controversial and then tells me not to tell my JWJN because it's not allowed. Of course I'm not that dumb... but could this still be an act?

Stillahealer- where are the other posts on Shim Sung?
Are they under this topic?

I dunno, maybe you should be afraid for me, but I want to see all sides of it. And I'm even more curious than ever now.

By Stillahealer on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 05:01 pm:

"She acted like she loved me until I was trapped" says Dahmmember.
Yes, this is part of the process. They have figured out that you are really enjoying the Love; and you feel sad when it is withheld. I remember that stage as well, only I just ignored them as well. Of course we were both playing a game. How terrible sad and immature. I saw these games played over and over. One member getting more attention at the expense of another.
Please refer to many postings about Shim Sung on this site; and if you still wish to check it out I am scared for you.

Just remember they are not your friend; nor do they love you.

By BoPeep on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 04:08 pm:

RE: 20/20
They will be needing to go in to the Dahn Centres undercover and with hidden cameras.
So the less said about 20/20 the better.
But now that the Dahndroids know 20/20 is on the sniff, will it make them clean up their collective act?
Or make them work harder to indoctrinate more people more quickly?
Only time will tell.

You know somebody quoted Lenin? I believe, as saying "Religion is the opiate of the People" long before the invention of television.
Television is the Opiate of the People nowadays.

Cheers!

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 03:44 pm:

I heard that 20-20 is still "very" interested. I am sure it takes time to put a story together. Don't stop giving her information. I'm sure they can't do a tv story without people who are willing to go on tv and with first-hand knowledge. Maybe no one has come forward (yet)who is willing to go on tv to talk about what they know about Julia's death.

Email: emily.j.just@abc.com

By STILL P.O.ED on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 03:28 pm:

FROM: STILL P.O.ed

FORGET ABOUT 20/20. NO RESPONSE. JUST ONE DEATH ISN'T "NEWSWORTHY" ENOUGH, I SUPPOSE.

QUOTE: "why don't you just burn a cross in front of a Dahn center?"

Answer: Because I am not intolerant of their religion, they are intolerant of mine. The Dahndroids will be the ones burning the crosses in my front yard if they continue on un-checked.
Un-checked, undocumented, un-licensed, un-governed.

Question: How is it that I can't even legally get a manicure or a hair-cut unless the operator has a license of Board Ceritification hanging in a visible place? Yet these Dahn "Healers" can put their hands all over your body and claim to heal you without even so much as an .... anything!

I think the American Medical Association would be interested to hear that!

THINK TANK TIME! WHO HAS THE BIGGEST, BADDEST LOBBY IN YOUR STATE?

That's is the organization to contact!

still p.o.ed

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 03:18 pm:

(That was me, below)

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 03:16 pm:

(That was me, below)

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 03:14 pm:

I know that Shim Sung is like a "madhouse" but I haven't done it yet. Do they really tell you that you're ugly and you should die, or was that just your particular class?
I do know that they make you yell and cry a lot though.
I think I'll eventually go anyway, if not just to see what actually goes on.

That's interesting- a 20/20 expose. I bet they'd kill for video footage of a Shim Sung class.

I have a sense that my old JWJN is a fake. She acted like she loved me until I was trapped and then she kind of rejected me. I was so sad. There were still times when I could sneak up on her and do something funny to make her smile but then she'd quickly control herself and wipe the smile of her face. She had random days where she would hug each member that came in, even the not-so-enthusiastic ones, which looked thoroughly creeped out. She would smile and act all happy but then would turn around without so much as a hint of a smile, just as you said, Stillahealer- acting.
My new JWJN seems to genuinely like me, but what if she's just acting, like the old one? I feel bad for not trusting someone who seems like a friend, but also, I do not want to put all my trust in someone just to have it betrayed.

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 03:11 pm:

"I just can't see them letting a woman die."

I don't think anyone is saying that they purposely let her die. They gained her trust and they come off as knowledgable about the human body and health, but my guess is that they were ignorant. When you are led to believe that that you are a superhuman healer, and that creating conditions for deprivation, pain, and suffering is good for the trainee's soul, and that pain is a sign of toxin release, and you treat everyone the same regardless of their previous physical conditioning, you can let someone die.

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 02:53 pm:

**Does dahn offer a retirement plan or 401k?
(jwjn)Don't focus on that instead focus on your donjon. Why do you always have negative energy?

I want to go to the movies, dinner, etc.
(jwjn)You can't because we have a meeting, training, etc. Stop thinking always of yourself. How can you grow your soul. I am so disappointed in you. I expect so much of you. I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!(HUG)

(jwjn) I want you to do 1000 bows, 30 minutes hang gong and chant chon bu kyong to purify your energy.
But,it is 10pm and I have not eaten all day.
(jwjn) Stop thinking of your self and focus on your donjon. I LOVE YOU! You have such bright energy! **

HealerNoMore-
haha- a tiny bit exaggerated, but you hit it dead-on.
I laughed so hard reading this.
It sounds like something I would hear in a Dahn Center.

By Stillahealer on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 02:52 pm:

Yes, Shim Sung training is like being in a mad house.

There were a few last straws;
Myungsa training which I was almost forced to attend. After arriving we were asked why we had come; that we should leave if we did not truly want to be there; lots of mind games. Then trying to get all of us to conform as if we were marine recruits. All the time they focused on how un important we really were. "From now on you must focus on the members. You have 10 seconds to make a member smile". Then I realized how very inauthentic they all were. Smiling for members and that will heal the world.
Believe me I smile more than the average person, but acting is another art form.
Realizing that all the smiles, hugs and I love you's were nothing but business tools was a major disapointment.

The next straw was watching the headmaster cry over his ability to get members to loan the corporation money. Then I knew this was a botomless pit.

I have learned little new here only confirmation of my own experiences.

On the real estate issue; I did hear they would be purchasing homes rather than leasing apartments. You know must not miss out on the real estate bubble!!!!

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 02:51 pm:

Oh, there you are.... doh! I guess I am not alone tho.

HEY! I was wondering if anyone out there knows anything about the 20/20 expose they were talking about. I emailed the lady and we corresponded a bit but after explaining all of my experiences and my view of how i was manipulated and taken advantage of, she said we should talk and then I never heard from her again.

I just assumed that I didn't have an interesting enough story to tell, not dramatic enough. I just pray that those who have bigger stories will go forward. I was so happy to know that this would be on TV but fear it gets lost....

Even tho I know cults have always been around and always will be, and I have let go of a lot of my anger and spend a lot less time thinking about the whole drama, I still hope to see Dahn go down.

So I guess there is still some anger in there, becuase I would like nothing better than to see all those arrogant holier-than-thous eat shit!!! WOW! I guess I am still really mad... hmmm

Anyway, if anyone knows anything more about the 20/20 thing, I would love to hear.

I had a whole stack of books and videos from dahn that i was trying to figure out what to do with. I invested so much freaking money on them but his books are selling for like pennies used on amazon. When i heard lee had purchased thousands of his own books and has dontated them to spread this cancer all over the world, I promptly took those books out to the dumpster and threw then in the paper recycling bin! And the videos in the trash!!! AAhhhhhhhhhhh, that felt right.

Anyway, I keep hearing from people who are still in the system that went to healer school, that they are going back to mago for more trainings and more brainwashing, 10's of thousands of dollars! It's really disturbing.

I want to trust that the universe leads us all to where we need to go and as long as we pray for guidance, we will get through it, better off, just as I have all along. There are so many beautiful souls in the Dahn system, I hate to see them getting hurt. But maybe this is just their karmic debt to be paid off as was mine? It's so hard for me to let go.

I am so grateful for all of you out there who are feeling called to stop this monster lee from hurting more people. I salute you!

Thank you!!

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 02:34 pm:

Hey stillahealer.
Is that what they really say during the Shim Sung training?
Wow.

I'd actually like to know why people left.
Stories from all the ex-members on here.
What negative experiences did you have?
What was the straw that broke the camel's back?

I was looking at the addresses Ilchi Lee owns. One of them is a supposed company office, but I noticed that it was in the town I live in. I looke up the address, and walked by it today- it was a private residence.
Sound fishy?

By Stillahealer on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 02:25 pm:

Most trainings are designed to be fun and inviting with ample love to everyone. Myungsa (lay master) training was a complete change. We were told on arrival not to expect to be babied like in Healer School. On one two hour (approx) hike we were not allowed to take our water bottles. There were limits on food intake during the 7 day period along with many other exercises disigned to get rid our our ego as Anno 6:10 requires that we do.
Back to letting go of our ego and having humility: I understand one of the Regional Masters who has been very successful in recruiting members to participate in "whatever the flavor of the day" is for lee, drives a BMW and only wears Chanel accessories. Former Enron exec. are looking better all the time.

I understand Masters training is much more rigid.

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 02:18 pm:

Oh I just read your entire post, Anonymous.
>
Well, those people might have been intelligent and wanted to prove their physical capabilities. Something that is strongly encouraged in Dahnhak practices is "overcoming your limits" and "keep going". You'll hear them say that at least 10 times a day. The people were probably excited at the challenge.
I can just imagine them telling the woman to "overcome [her] limits" and to "keep going"- In the beginning, when someone feels exhausted, a lot of the time if they remain mentally strong, they can, in fact, overcome.
Quitting is frowned upon in Dahnhak. I can see them pushing her to go on, but if she became seriously ill, why didn't they have her stop? Yeah I don't doubt it can be very hardcore- they had us running around in 90 degree weather all over the hills, and some extremely overweight people who were out of shape seemed about to collapse.
I just can't see them letting a woman die.

And showing no remorse?
They always seem like such caring people.

Ilchi Lee says the way he became enlightened was 21 days of no eating and he was hiking around, etc. But in his speech to us, he said that he was stupid, because you don't have to do all that to become enlightened. But apparently, you do.

One master said he went on a fast and lost 12 pounds in less than a month, and he had to stop because it was getting dangerous.
The same master also said, almost word for word, that he did not believe people needed as much water as commonly believed, and he even said that water is bad for your digestion, and encouraged us to not drink water during our day of training.

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 02:15 pm:

Is there anybody out there? What happened??? It's been over a week and no entries..

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 02:09 pm:

I don't know when they *started* giving advice to drink water.
But I was there after she died.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/dti/dti44.pdf
I don't know if you've seen this already- the complaint filed recently against Ilchi Lee.
I have personally met the Dahnhak master who led the hike. Scary, huh?
I wonder what he'd say if I asked him about it.

By P.O.ed on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 01:25 pm:

To Anon:

Yes I do have some unchecked negativity right now. I believe it is called "anger". Angry at what, you say? Angry at being emotionally whored out by the Big Pimp, Ill-Chi. What he is pushing is not an "Enlightened Democracy"; it is Communism, pure and simple. How many houses does he own while his "Masters" live in communal dorm-rooms. How many millions has he amassed while his "Masters" work like slaves for 25K/Annum?

Nobody here is happy about this horrible death.
It is true, however, that every movement needs a martyr, and why should Dr. Siverl's death be in vain? We want the Truth to come out. We want Justice. Justice for Julia. Freedom for the Indoctrinated Ones. If that is bad or wrong, sign me,

Bad and Wrong!

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 12:49 pm:

"Dahn member," did they start encouraging water bottles after or before Julia died? She died July 12, 2003. Also, master training probably involved more deprivation than the lower levels of training.

If you read "Heaven Within," a fictionalized account of master training at Dahn, copyrighted by Seung Heun Lee, it is all about guiding trainees to reach "enlightenment" through extreme hardship, physical deprivation, pain, and survival against the elements. After the trainee character became injured, the master showed no remorse, no sympathy, as if to say this is an admirable quality. Hello, these people are supposedly leading us to a more peaceful and loving world!

I don't think people on this board have held back their opinion that the drug accusation seems a stretch, anon 6:10. I admit I am stunned by it. But I am also stunned that Dahn "healers" who are supposedly able to see what is wrong inside of your body and feel your energy and all that crap could watch and let a woman die right in front of their eyes.

No "coercion?" How do you get intelligent people to go on a twenty mile hike with just a cup of water each in the summer desert carrying packs of rocks on their backs, hiking uphill, and making a very sick woman keep going until she died?

Some people inside Dahn might feel "sorry and upset" about it, anon 6:10, but for Dahn authorities to show no remorse to Julia's family and to withhold a detailed explanation, and for the grandmaster Lee to ignore the death for two years as if nothing happened, to go on a tour to talk about healing chakras the day after she died - doesn't that tell you anything? That is why Julia's death is so significant, even if she is the only one to have ever died in Dahn training (that we know of), even if it seems like an isolated event, the fact that her "love" and devotion and unwavering trust of Dahn ended in her suffering to death is a statement about Lee and Dahn practices. Lee runs the show, and Lee showed an apparent lack of remorse, not offering any comfort to the family afterward and adding to their grief instead, not offering the family ANYTHING afterward, etc. - is this the True Self of the Dahn world peace movement revealed?

Everything that the main character in the book "Heaven Within" experienced shows you how easily someone could die in Dahn master training. Thank God no one else has died at the hand of Dahn.

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 12:18 pm:

"It is always a silly thing to give advise; but to give good advise is absulutely fatal"

Oscar Wilde

By Dahn member on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 11:41 am:

I don't really believe the drug part, either.
I went to one of the retreats in Arizona and the food seemed perfectly fine. I think I would have noticed if I had been drugged.
Also, the part about that woman dying- wow, it really surprised me. They didn't let her have water? When I was there, they told us to carry a bottle of water at ALL TIMES and to refill it every time we had a meal.
I met one of the women who was on the hike with the woman who died- she is a staff member at the retreat center in Arizona. I'd ask other people about it, but in general, Dahn members regard negative comments about Dahnhak with suspicion, and I'm kind of reluctant to have people acuse me of criticism. I don't think they'd answer my question, and they'd probably be suspicious of me.
That's kind of a red flag, isn't it?

But I always have a good time when I do these activities. Yeah it does seem a little strange, but nothing harmful as of yet.
I read someone's blog who attends classes, but she said she wants to see what happens when she refuses the other activities that cost extra money. If they get upset with her, she said she will leave. That sounds like a good experiment.

By Stillahealer on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 08:25 am:

Ann; 6:10 Welcome and thank you for re-invigorating this board. Most of us have walked in your shoes and like you believed in the Vision. It was the most exciting thing that ever happened in my 50+ adult years of life. I still envy those dreams and mourn the loss. I wish they were who they said they were. I wish they truly cared about the members.

Tell us how long you have been involved and to what extent? Have you noticed how the masters treat some members? Those with positions of Trust in the community, those with $$$ who are willing to share or those who indicate they wish to become Masters?

Yes; those who go on to become Masters are an elite group. They are usually fairly young, generally healthy and most importantly willing to do "Whatever it takes for as long as it takes to achieve the Vision"
Think about that last sentence; WHATEVER IT TAKES.
Are you willing to do ANYTHING for the Vision? Would you lie? This is the most egregious part of this organization; lying to members, lying to the community and most of all lying to themselves. They are so caught up in all this lying that it has become second nature to them. Notice all the deception around the death of Julia.

I for one do not buy into the drug stories. And I wish they were not part of this conversation. Makes the story way too sensational and make people like myself come across as "kooks". Even my family who did not trust the organization from early on do not believe the drug stories. To quote my husband; "Honey it is just a business". Since we are both in sales we shared stores about what great marketers they were. Even in the crazy profit making business world, we are not willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES.
Coming into a community were they knew no one and gaining the trust of constituents of the most conservative zip codes in America is an amazing fete in itself. Too bad Dahn and Lee do not use their energy for real Good in the World.

Please do keep sharing. Open honest frank discussion is what we are about here.

By bead on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 07:56 am:

Traditional teachers take care to separate the teacher from the teachings. They are two different things. A person can have learned from a reputable school, but if they can't make that distinction they are no better than a cult leader when they teach in their turn. It is like they are taking credit for someone else's work. A teacher who insists that they are a "grandmaster" and that they should be worshipped themselves, who promises the world for that worship and charges enormous amounts of money to boot is looking for trouble. I feel bad, not only for the victims, but for what cult leaders are doing to themselves. The time is going to come when everyone will have to account for all of their actions. A real teacher will not forget that.

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 06:48 am:

I was just thinking of a quote that might be helpful to anyone who is confused and who is still involved with this group but questioning it. I think this is for me a reminder to question authority whether the authority be a politician, a teacher, a "master", Lee. And to step out of group think. And be yourself and be true to your self.

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is trying its best night and day to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human can fight and never stop fighting."

--E.E. Cummings

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 06:43 am:

Religion is the opium of the masses

By fresh-ex on Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 01:10 am:

anon 6:10- to suggest the the people posting on this board delight in the death of another person is pretty low. perhaps you don't want this board to exist. so why are you reading it? i didn't think you people had time for this anyways. were you assigned to to monitor this board? were you told this material on-line is just Heaven's test?
i was.
i'd like to hear your opinion.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 08:55 pm:

I am quite sure we all loved dahn practice at some point of our memberships.

Then we woke up and realized we were being tricked,cheated and manipulated out of our life savings.

We woke up to the truth that the masters did not really love us. It was a tool they use to make us do their bidding and to enslave us.

We woke up to the fact that something did not feel right. We were never given a real answer to our questions.

We woke up to the reality that we were becoming slaves to lee and his minions. We were being used to make lee a rich man while we grew poor.

I have benefited greatly from dahn. I now know not to trust them and to question anyone who comes along carrying a banner of enlightenment.

Do your research. Be informed. There are too many former members who have complaints about this group. It is not a coincidence.

dahn has hurt many people on many different levels. There are many former members who are too embarrassed or afraid to file complaints against dahn.

They are still being the victimized by not coming forward.

By Anonymous on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 08:44 pm:

quote: "You're delighted by her death because if there were no death there would be no lawsuit."

You are a sick person.

By Andrew Nevis on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 07:25 pm:

Time to translate a Dahn defenders comments, `unchecked negativity' equals `reasoning mind intact'. A `New kind of intolerance', simply put `your causing fewer people to go to Dahn'. The `scandalous gossip', the people here `are sharing facts' Dahn doesn't want known such as personal experiences and legal records.
What benefit does one get from sharing the truth? The hope that others need not suffer as we did in being Dahn members. Healing the planet means caring for others with compassion, offering guidance, not forcing people to follow a false path, nor does it mean tricking them.
A few of the masters I met were some of the most stuck up, racist people I've ever encountered. Yet they somehow supposed themselves to be on track to enlightenment. People I've met in the Christian church, whom Lee and Sedona center (e-mails, internet and book records)so freely puts down could easily teach Dahn humanity, humility and what it means to truly love. Dahn masters caring too often is skin deep, the same as the education in basic first aid, Christianity, mysticism and use of all the Chakkras.
Maybe that's why no Dahn members are setting new athletic records? Or replacing Stephen Hawkings in helping people understand the physical universe?
We know that Lee is not all that he claims to be. A super athlete, no, he wasn't, there is nothing in the records that make him shine. Superior student, no, Lee is not an Einstein, the man had middling school marks and remains stuck in one language, Korean. There is no proof that he did all those things on Moak mountain. Maybe he went to cabin, drank Korean whiskey (soju) for 3 weeks and came up with the old, tired `cosmic mind'?
Reading the Dahn material its a series of worn out cliches, contradictory statements that are held back by limited imagaination. The only thing that works are the exercises, but a person can get better from a yoga manual.
Yet one person comes to this board and says we would believe, if only we weren't so negative. To that, I shall pray my negativity is shared with that person, as we all should enjoy life without a Dahn center confining our joy.

By Anonymous on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 06:10 pm:

Congratulations everyone on putting so much energy into creating a whole new kind of intolerance for America! Pages and pages of unchecked negativity! Why don't you guys just go burn a cross in front of a dahn center? Everytime something outside of the status quo begins gaining power in the US, people like you start spewing out all the scandalous gossip you can think of. A lot of people inside dahn are very sorry and upset about what happened to the professor, but you people seem to revel in it. "Aha! Now we got the bastards!" you say to yourself. You're delighted by her death because if there were no death there would be no lawsuit. (Yes, everyone, this is an isolated case. Dahnhak does not wish to harm its practitioners.) You don't care whether due process has established the facts or not, just so long as it aids your hatemongering.
Some of you here appear to have had lengthy experience in Dahn, but you fail to speak up about the ways that the lawsuit is clearly false. You know the she was not drugged during the training. No one has ever been drugged during that training. Ibuprophen (Advil) is a common false positive for marijuana (as are many other drugs), and I would bet that what happened with her and that other hysteric who posted on Rick "Trial, Judge, and Jury" Ross. You also know that she was not coersed into taking master training, as the lawsuit aledges. The fact that there were only four other people in the training with her shows how elite that training is. Julia must have loved Dahn if she desided to dedicate her life to it in this way. I'm sure her sister, who wrote the complaint, did not understand what master's training really is. I have true compassion, however, for the sister and family, and I hope she receives compensation for any irresponsible behavior that contributed to Julia's death. It is natural for her grief to turn into the anger that produced the inflamatory language present in the lawsuit, and even more understandable considering the libelous material easily available on the internet. Fortunately, we have (theoretically) a fair and impartial justice system to sort out what really happened that day.
When I read posts like this, I really wonder what drives you to go on and on and on in this way. What benefit do get from it? If you don't like Dahn, just stay away! Trust me, they aren't going to come into your home and and snatch you away. I have some sympathy, however, for the former masters and healers who now are filled with resentment. Clearly, they pursued training for the sake of the ego. (Who wouldn't want to be called "healer" or "master"?) They were doomed to fail their training from the beginning. Their money was truly wasted. It's sad to see former healers and masters wollowing in resentment on these boards.
My warning for potential Dahn practitioners is this: Do not do any high-level training, unless you do it for the right reason. Being a master reqires hard work, discipline, endless dedication, and humility. It involves cutting the ego and its emotion, which is bound to be uncomfortable. If that is not your cup of tea, stick to regular class, healer school, and YEHA camps, and don't delude yourself into thinking being a Master is a good path for you.

By Anonymous on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 09:26 pm:

W!O!W!

It looks like being Dahn'd inspired some folk, including myself, to get re-acquainted with that "Old Time Religion."

God truly works in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform.

By HealerNoMore on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 11:18 am:

"Keep and guard your heart with all vigilance and above all that you guard, for out of it flows the springs of life" (Proverbs 4:23)

Don't let the masters of dahn take over your heart. They will then win over your mind and then they will have total control over you.

In a very quick time you will be morally and financially corrupt. You will start to do unto others what they have done to you.

Were you brought into this world to take advantage of people who are hurting and in pain?

Would you take advantage of your mother,wife and daughter this way?

When you enter the world of dahn you give up reality. You will live in lee's twisted world of profiteering and slavery.

lee doesn't care about you he only cares about your money and how he can get it from you.

Is there a record of how many people have left dahn practice? Why did they leave? Is it because they found out too late it was a scam designed to enslave them to lee and make them poor.

Watch yourself when dealing with this organization. They are not to be trusted under any circumstances.

Do your research and be warned and informed.

By Stillahealer on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 10:20 am:

MKD; Good to hear from you. Forgot about the Matthew chapter. I used to tell my kids; "Watch what people do, not what they say" Should have given proper credit.

Dahn Yoga is a real scary organization. Their Front Desk Appearance is so different from the reality of the back room. The organization has attracted some of the most wounded people from South Korea. I used to try and find out more about their families and upbringing, but got very little information. Hearing one of the masters shouting "you are so ugly, you should die" during Shim Sung made me realize he had been abused as a child. Sometimes I would ask "if you were not a Dahn master, what would you be doing?" It was difficult to get an answer on that one.
When they continued to approach me for more money for the organization I would say No. "However if you ever need anything personally, I would be happy to help you" I think they knew what I meant. But they have such false pride and would not admit how awful their lives really are.

By cat on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 09:58 am:

In NHS reintergration, at the end of the last
session, we were told that we were all gods.
I will have look up my notes as to their reasoning, but I remember being quite surprised.
Were any of you told this? It was over a year ago and I remember it being a long 2-day lecture
and much deeper into Dahn than the previous
workshops.
cat

By Anonymous on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 09:11 am:

FACT : sex and beauty sell product. Why should da/n be any different in there marketing.

The love bombing -- yes, that's( !!! ) a good one to.

)) - ((

By MKD on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 08:30 am:

A Tree & Its Fruit-- Matthew 7 15-20 (good news trans)

"Be on your guard against false prophets; they come to you looking like sheep on the outside, but on the inside they are like wild wolves. YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY WHAT THEY DO. Thorn bushes do not bear grapes, and briers do not bear figs. A healthy tree bears good fruit, but a poor tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit and a poor tree cannot bear good fruit. And any tree that does not bear good fruit will cut down and thrown in the fire. So then you will know the false prophets by what they do."

21-23 is good too. Lee and the jwnjns are just like that, "sheep on the outside, wild wolves on the inside" Steer clear of all this dahnhak bullsh*t. The previous verse is great too v. 13-14. The narrow gate:

"Go through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many people who travel it. But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it."

Its amazing to read the gospels and to see how much Lee has taken it and twisted it in his own way to describe himself as the Messiah. We are not Gods, he is not a living god, I don't want to preach but lets just say that he is NOT BY ANY MEANS the saving grace. His is the way to sin, false power, conceit, greed, arrogance and destruction. Destruction of family, destruction of self, destruction of life, destruction of your personality and finances. Sad Sad Sad. He actually reminds me of Nazis, in the sense that through him and exercise and princilpes and healing you can become superhuman, like him, like god and what does that breed? NOTHING but superiority and contempt for and over the human race, the very thing he and the rest of them are out to "save."

Stay away and come full circle and realize that you always knew the truth, before you ever started "searching."

Love,
MKD

By BoPeep on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 11:48 pm:

Hello, dear peoples, GOOD NEWS!
159 people have viewed myspace!
Can somebody help me pimp my page?
I need music and streaming video.
I've got the perfect theme song.
"If I ruled the World"
Rub-a-Dub music.

Oh, had another weird dahn-dream. Alpha state dream, so the cross between a dream and a fantasy.

Ill-Chi and I are sitting across a table from one another.
He asked, "What is it that you want?" (perfect English, It was a dream!)
I said, "I want to be happy."
"Okay, I will grant you this wish, you are now happy." he replied.
I retorted, "You can't make me happy, only God can do that! Do you think you're God?"
Silent Impasse.
I broke the silence, "Tell ya what, I'll arm-wrestle ya for it!"
So we began to arm-wrestle, and WHOMP, he beat me no contest and started to gloat. I said, "No, 2 out of 3.." WHOMP! WHOMP! WHOMP!
I wouldn't let him go away. I kept saying one more, just one more, let's do it again. He kept beating me, 20-30 times. Finally he became bored and said, "I'm a Grand Master; I don't have time for this nonsense..." He got up and walked away.
Exhausted and sweating, I yelled out, "Yes! I WON!"

Importunity is the key.
Cheers!
BoPeep

P.S. Oops! I was joining so many groups at myspace I accidentally joined the BJ club. I didn't know what it was. NOW I KNOW! ROFLMAO!

By Paranoid #1 on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 11:19 pm:

To: Anon., aka Paranoid #2
From: Paranoid #1
Re: House and Car

I believe the deal was house and carkeys, computer and IRA.

OR you can send your firstborn child to:

The Church of Smiley-Frownyism
P.O. BOX 555
Washington, D.C.

This is a tax deductable donation. Receipt for "One firstborn child" will be sent upon request.

Sign me,
Please tell me law-suit is for real.

By Anonymous on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 08:46 pm:

I was thinking the same as anon 6:55.
Good thought. Do hope the lawsuit is authentic
cat

By Anonymous on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 06:55 pm:

Someone should really call the attorneys for Julia's family's civil lawsuit to ask if the case is going to be filed or if it already was. Can one person call, so that we don't bombard them? How about HealerNoMore, do you mind calling on behalf of this forum?

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 04:18 pm:

Jail for lee.

How sweet that sounds.

My opinion is this won't happen. It will not likely happen because he has brainwashed his sabumnim slaves to take the blame for everything. It is their fault for not making the vision. It is their fault if members see through the con and leave the center. It is always the fault of the master or the members.

It is never lee's fault as he paints himself as perfect. I wonder how many of his members have spent time in jail? Some of the charges might be money laundering,green card marriages,tax evasion,sexual misconduct,and various other laws that don't seem to apply to conhak. Can lee and dahnhak be prosecuted under the RICO act? Just wondering. Any law enforcement reading this want to comment?

I wonder how lee liked being someone's girlfriend? I heard from a master that lee spent something like six years in jail. The bride of "Bubba nim". I wonder if he will market and sell a special "Ilchi dress" commemorating "counter heavens day" for his arrest in 1993? Can anyone verify this amount of time spent in jail?

One thing is for certain, he has probably taken steps to make sure he never has another date with "Bubba nim".

I fully expect many masters to go to jail for lee. If this happens, it will be the masters fault for believing in a con artist such as lee.

While they are wasting away in jail, lee will be enjoying all of his money and homes. When they come out and approach their master, lee will tell them to get lost. They will no longer have usefulness for him.

Just my opinion. YMMV.

Do your research on this group.

dahn yoga is a dangerous cult.

Be warned and be informed.

JUSTICE FOR JULIA!

Jail for lee.

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 02:06 pm:

Think about the audacity an organization has to have to ask you for money for their non profit operation.

dahn asks its members for ourageous fees to do exercises that are next to free anywhere alse you go.

dahn is so focused on taking your last penny that they will ask you to donate it to them. I guess the free labor and other donations(cars,cell phones,rent,buildings,food,etc.)are not enough too satisfy that sloth of a man called lee.

I hope all members and potential members can see how they will be ripped off and used by this slime bag and his group of thieves.

I hope anyone reading this knows that they don't have "bad energy". The "bad energy" rap is used to get your money. It is used to manipulate you and control you. Once the masters have control of you they will use you like a disposable dish rag. You will have no "rights". You will have no sense of "self" except that which they tell you is "you". The 'You" they will instill in you is going to be a slave and a pawn for their use. They will probably laugh behind your back, and you won't know because you don't speak the language.

There is a saying that, "If you put a single crab in a bucket it will crawl out. If you put in more than one, the one trying to get out will be pulled back in by the other crabs. No crabs will escape from the bucket."

This is typical of dahn practice. The masters are crabs in the bucket and they will try to pull you in to their misery. lee is the fisherman. he refers to himself as the fisher of men.

Be warned and informed about this vile group of people calling themselves healers. They are con artists and thieves out to take your money and life.

JUSTICE FOR JULIA.

JAIL FOR lee.

By Anonymous on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 10:50 am:

I have given donations to Tao Fellowship and received the necessary income tax documentation.

By Andrew Nevis on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 11:52 pm:

Question has anyone made a charitable donation to the Dahn Institute in Sedona? According to public records the place is a non-profit and can issue receipts. Or does the Institute oops, forget to give such paper work?

By Anonymous on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 07:44 pm:

Er, um...I'm the one who stands to lose my house and car (the IRA was for NewDahn's legitimacy), so now I'm "Paranoid." Gulp.

I think the paperwork and attorneys are for real, and I checked now and don't see the file number or other things filled in. I hope it's just a backlog on recording the case. If the summons and lawyers are real but the lawyers decide not to file the summons in court, do I get to keep my house and car, Paranoid/Still Paranoid/Less Paranoid?

Paranoid2

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 11:33 am:

The law suit is still not filed in the Bronx Superior court. There may be a backlog, or I am told it may be a negotiation tool prior to actual filing. The case will be given a number as soon as it is filed.

Hold on to your house, car and 401K. Hope this news does not put Paranoid over the edge.

By BoPeep on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 09:48 am:

Thank you, SAH. Come on over, you guys; We can start our own group!
http://signup.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=join

It's free, it's easy and 103 people have already viewed my site. Sure they just surf on by, but I get the message in really quick.

They're not all young people, they're all ages. There'a hundreds of groups, all genre. Yesterday I joined the Republican Group and the Democrat Group. So I'm undecided! Point is, they see your post and come and check you out.

There's a Gold Mine of information here on THIS message board, aka the hood. Unfortunately only about 5 of us are reading it, not counting the spies, and we already KNOW the deal...

So come on over! We can still stay here too.
http://signup.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=join

Cheers!
BoPeep

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 08:42 am:

http://www.myspace.com/dahn_busters

Way to Go
BoPeep.
I believe you are on to something here; warning young people before they get hooked.
Thanks,

By clockwork on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 07:34 am:

Healer No More, you put that so well, I like it. It descirbes everything Dahn does with such humor. I keep bumping into people I knew from Dahn lately, I can't believe I left a year ago and these girls are still involved. I know one is a single mom, what kind of money does she have? She is giving all of her money to Dahn, what about her son? I don't get it. Also the same master is there, she has been there for over a year I am surprised she has been there for so long, I feel sorry for her, she really means well and believes in the cause. I also received a letter in the mail from her by accident, she meant to send it to another member and it came to my house, how odd, I wonder if it is some sort of game. I have not been involved in Dahn for a year almost, coincidence????

By Anonymous on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 05:58 am:

You are right Healer no more. It is an abusive relationship, like, a battered wife or child. It is always the victims fault. Only powerful "dahn" is always right. You are never good enough.
The victims walk around thinking it is all their fault - if only I could be better, strongerm believe more- things would be better.

By HealerNoMore on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 11:50 pm:

ATTENTION ALL MEMBERS OF dAHN.

Do you want more out of life? Pretty much everyone does. Ask your jwjn if someday you can own a Hummer. The answer will be that it is not important for your enlightenment. How about a house or nice car? You will get the same answer.

How come lee can have these things?
(jwjn) Because he works hard for them. The money comes from his books, etc. We all share his houses, property, etc.
Whose name is on the lease? Can he evict you at any time he wants? YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT!

Does dahn offer a retirement plan or 401k?
(jwjn)Don't focus on that instead focus on your donjon. Why do you always have negative energy?

I want to go to the movies, dinner, etc.
(jwjn)You can't because we have a meeting, training, etc. Stop thinking always of yourself. How can you grow your soul. I am so disappointed in you. I expect so much of you. I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!(HUG)

(jwjn) I want you to do 1000 bows, 30 minutes hang gong and chant chon bu kyong to purify your energy.
But,it is 10pm and I have not eaten all day.
(jwjn) Stop thinking of your self and focus on your donjon. I LOVE YOU! You have such bright energy!

These scenarios and more await you if you join dahn. Once you join you will never be entitled to your own opinion without repercussions ever again.

Ask any current masters if they left dahn today how much they have saved for an apartment, everyday expenses, food, insurance, car, etc.

If they are truthful they will probably change the subject and tell you it is not important. They are delusional. When they leave dahn, and they will leave, they will be in for a very rude awakening. They will go back to the families dahn tried to convince them were bad and holding them back from attaining enlightenment and growing their souls.

Do you research about dahn. The proof is here.

By HealerNoMore on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 11:26 pm:

I just read on the Newdahn website about how when doing bow training it is a form of meditation until you get to a higher level. I was told the same thing until I became master and then was told we are bowing to the picture of lee which was placed in front of the room.

If there are any potential members here for dahn be sure to ask them if you are joining a religion or an exercise program. Don't believe them unless they tell you it is a religion which is devoted to lee.

Do your research and see how vile and immoral this organization truly is. They will mislead you and manipulate you. Their sales pitch is filled with lies. Their goal is to make you a slave and put you in the poor house.

If you think it is somehow exciting to be wanted by this group think again. When they have your money and your commitment to them you are a spoke in the wheel. You will then be expected to take advantage of the next person who comes along looking for help.

Do you want to become a mindless dahndroid? You will have no free will. You will give up all of your rights and be a slave to the organization. Much like the Borg on Star Trek. Your one mission in life will be to assimilate others.

Is this the life you want?

By BoPeep on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 07:33 pm:

Hey all!
83 people have viewed my webpage and I haven't even been there a week!
Check it oot, eh?
http://www.myspace.com/dahn_busters
Cheers!
Bo

By Anonymous on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 06:46 pm:

I can't get on the Newdahn.com website. All it shows are question marks!!

By the way, Fresh-ex, read David Hockin's book called "The eye of the I". It is truly healing for all out of dahn members. It washed off my brain from all the twisted dahn teachings that seemed so right and loving.

By Anonymous on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 06:31 pm:

if you want to start causing dahn some problems, start emailing writers, send faxes to publications, etc.

activism is hard work but worth it.

By fresh-ex on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 09:56 am:

oops there it is!

By fresh-ex on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 09:52 am:

i just posted and its not showing...

By fresh-ex on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 09:03 am:

the board has been quiet in the last week.
so much violence in the world. dahn claims to care about world peace, but its a dirty game that just boils down to money. when you leave dahn, all the love and caring disappears, and you are discarded. the only way to contribute to peace in the world is to pay, pay, pay. lee bought his way into that peace summit that he goes on about in his book, healing society, and the prayer for peace that he wrote was never read in front of the UN as far as i know. its amazing... how if something is printed in a book, we believe it. if we see a video of children doing BR in a classroom setting, we think its real. BR is not in a single public school anywhere in north america. i don't recall being to lied to like i was at dahn. that was something i just could not accept. i really felt like i had joined a group that genuinely cared. i believe the members were genuine, but my masters had other priorities... gathering their own cosmic points by "enlightening" people (lightening their wallets) so they can go to some planet or heaven or whatever with lee. so its not actually about helping people- there is a selfish motive attached and ingrained through brainwashing and conditioning. i wish there was something i could do.

By Anonymous on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 05:32 am:

nobody has written in so long, where are y'all.

By Andrew Nevis on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 09:01 pm:

Wow, the new Dahn site is very slick. If Goebbels was alive today, he'd be very impressed. Tell a lie often enough, people will believe it, especially if you dress it up nicely.
Was talking to a Dahn master, he said, `so the Dahn center tried to convince you to walk away from your family, spend all your money on courses and become a dahn master. Is that all? What's the problem?'
Anyone willing to fill in the reply there?
As to Dame.Bo Beep,
thank you for correcting me. Yes, do not give a sucker an even break, they can still transform into a bat and drain you dry.
Maybe we can get together to produce a scary new movie, `Attack of the brainsuckers'. They mutate, they steal all to please their hideous cosmic overmind. Welcome to a kim chi screamer.
Let's chat about making this movie later.

By IMO on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 08:24 pm:

As to what you can do? I'd like to suggest two things for now.

1) If you know email address of any of the Korean masters, send the link to www.newdahn.com and urge them to read the 1999 "Suprise" story. You can do this in a non-threatening, friendly way and address them individually rather to a group. The Korean masters MUST read the story more than anybody else. Some of you doubt the authenticity of the story and some of them may also be in denial, but some Koreans will know better in their gut what to make of the story. Also there seem to be many former Korean dahn masters active on the site. If there is anybody in the world who can have any kind of influence on those current masters, I'm hoping it will be those who had been in their shoe before and can talk the language they understand. (well, this may be a wishful thinking, but I think it's worth the try)

2) This messageboard serves a purpose for some of us in terms of as a place to vent out, share our experience and heal our hurts by doing so. However, I don't think it will serve as an effective platform to educate and communicate to newcomers, who are still in their honeymoon period with the organization and may be wondering whether they should go ahead with their healer school or lifetime membership, etc. We need to get more organized. As to how, we need to discuss..

By BoPeep on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 01:27 pm:

22,745,038 people in this network alone.
All with the capability of seeing your comments.
Oops, sent Blog url,
Here is the correct URL:

http://www.myspace.com/dahn_busters

Party out the back!
Cheers, BoPeep

By BoPeep on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 01:20 pm:

Question: What can I do?
Try this:
http://blog.myspace.com/dahn_busters

cheers!
BoPeep

By Stillahealer on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 01:04 pm:

I know, I know. I feel the same way. I also know that strange feeling one gets from others who are still sorta on the inside. They just don't want to admit how dangerous they really are. Also remember the masters are telling them that you are LOST and Wandering. They say you will not complete your SOUL like they will bla bla bla.
It seems we are all doing whatever we can to bring attention to Dahn and its problems. We must be patient and persistent. Take some action every day and then trust that all will be well.
Since we live in a free society they are taking great advantage of our system.

By fresh-ex on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 12:52 pm:

i need action. i feel like my wheels are spinning with this dahn thing. what can i do to make a difference??
i don't want them in my town, poisoning people. i want them gone, shut down.

By BoPeep on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 11:14 am:

(QUOTE)
...nice picture, looks like an ad for kotex.
ROFLMAO!!
It does, it does, it does look like a Kotex ad!
Thank you, fresh-ex, for that big belly-laugh!
Every little bit helps...SAH, God bless you for explaining the Couch-jumping bit for me, and as promised I'll stay on task now...
Well, Smiley-Frownyism isn't taking off as I expected. ;~{
Speaking of ads, do you know what ancient commercial keeps rolling thru my brain?

(Lady Customer at Cleaners) "Mr. Wong! How do you get my husband's shirts so white?"
(Mr. Wong): "Shhhhhh, ancient Chinese secret..."
Announcer: It's no ancient Chinese secret! It's CALGON..."

Anyway,
Cheers!
BoPeep

By fresh-ex on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 10:39 am:

I checked out that website, StillaHealer. nice picture, looks like an ad for kotex. one thing i have noticed is the appalling mistakes in grammar and spelling. "imaging" instead of "imagine"???
who is writing this really?
amazing how a homeless, very sick person can suddenly afford healer school.
i haven't been writing much, just reading the board. i must say, i am still very much affected by my experience with dahn. i get very very depressed about the whole thing. you could not pay me to go back though. i don't miss them. i am just sooo disappointed with the scams, the lies. i knew that jewellery was crap when i saw it. of course there were no prices on the brochure.
when i run into people that are still members they look at me with such contempt... i guess they will learn sooner or later. i have to let go. i can't save them. but i know there are people there that are far more delicate than i am- it could destroy them! i hope they read this board- THE WHOLE THING. that is important for reaching a turning point and waking up. realizing that nobody is immune.

By Stillahealer on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 07:45 am:

O,K, BoPeep.

Tom Cruise was a guest on the Oprah show where he was behaving in a very strange almost manic way. A number of times he jumped on the couch professing his love for Katie. Other times he crouched with closed fists saying Yes, Yes.

Oh well: There is a connection.

Just like Dahn training when we had to proclaim our Vision: louder, stronger from your DahnJon.

By Anonymous on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 10:15 pm:

Maybe people will begin to complain to their Attorney General about the fraudulent jewelry. You can send a copy of the Korean fraud complaint and chemical analysis from the NewDahn site. If Lee is forced to take back the jewelry in Korean, the same should be happening here.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 08:45 pm:

I have seen the website. I am still here.

I can only say I was not surprised by their tactics. I don't know anyone who ever got a real vacation while working there. You could take time off but it was a real hassle. It was like leaving a prison. Why do you need time off? Where are you going? Who are you going with? Where can we reach you? Yada, Yada, Yada! Same BS as always. The only thing is the newbies have not experienced it yet. They will probably get members who have never had a real job and therefore don't know what to expect from a real company.

Did anyone read the testimonials by the dahndroids? I can't believe I was like that too. I am so lucky I am out of that dead end road of life.

I think many people stay because they don't have to take care of themselves. They leave their well being to strangers in dahn. There are no layoffs or downsizing,yet. We have to wait and see how much Julia's family will win. Then there will probably more overtime for all the masters. Can they have eight days per week? lee is all powerful, maybe he can talk to the heavens and make it so.

Just when I think dahn can't sink any lower they prove me wrong.

I read on Newdahn that dahn is in trouble in Korea for lying about their jewelry. It is not gold. It is cheap brass, thats right BRASS! They are selling $5 worth of brass for $400 or more! How can I get my money back for my almost worthless jewelry?

Can lee be any more of an immoral ahole. Yes I am sure he can but that has not surfaced yet.

By BoPeep on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 08:13 pm:

WOW! That is slick. (new website) they brought in the Big Guns! Did you notice under 'employment opportunities' it goes into all the paid time off per year, health insurance coverage, competitive wages etc. ad nauseum.

When healernomore sees that shite she'll spontaneously combust! Take cover!

I promise not to mention Tom Cruise again if somebody will tell me the deal with jumping on couches? I just gotta know.

Cheers!
BoPeep

By Stillahealer on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 07:38 pm:

http://www.dahnyoga.com/index.asp

They have a new and improved website. Getting slicker and slicker.
Notice the testimonials are all new and as usual are over 90% from members who are fairly new to the system. The love bombing is in high gear. We have all been there and have written similar stories.

So children back to message; forget Tome Crusie. This site is about helping people who are being effected by Dahn Yoga. At least that is the name they are currently working under.

And where is everybody?

By BoPeep on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 01:56 pm:

what's the deal about him jumping on a couch????
http://www.liquidgeneration.com/games/cruise_scientology.asp

By Anonymous on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 12:33 pm:

What's the deal with Tom Cruise? Heard he got caught in bed with Rob Thomas of Matchbox 20 by Thomas's wife then the whole Katie Holmes thing went into gear to cover it up. She's getting $8 million to play the girlfriend and Scientology dupe.

By Anonymous on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 12:33 pm:

Where is everyone? Hope I didn't freak everyone out with my "WAIT" post. I was just telling all our friends who were posting here before not to scroll down and expect to see us there like before, that the new posts are up here at the top. Maybe everyone is just enjoying the incredible weather, which is what I am going to do ritht now.

SC

By Anonymous on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 03:45 pm:

WAIT! DON'T SCROLL DOWN FOR NEW MESSAGES. NEW MESSAGES ARE UP HERE NOW.

By BoPeep on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:35 pm:

Dear Mr. Andrew Nevis, Esq.

This is BoPeep, Founder of SmileyFroweyism. SMILEY-FACE face good day to you, Sir.
Quote:
Let's do be nice to the masters though, give them blessed fruits and water. Its healthy, its free and tests Qi sensivity all at the same time. Anyone up to showing compassion to the ceiling hangers in training?

With all due respect I must beg to differ with your opinion in this one regard. Should I also be nice to a burglar who breaks in my house? Being TOO NICE to the "masters" is what got me in this mess! Too nice to walk away when I saw those UNPOSTED astronomical fees, too nice to decline the private room treatment, too nice to decline the quite unsolicited advice that I "MUST go to Healer School///I have great Chungikuin, great chunghimein, great Ki energy blahblahblah"

My ego just gobbled that shite up. And it cost me. Little did I know they were telling everyone else the same shite in order to meet the monthly quota.

So now I know, and boy do I have egg on my face. But we a saying here, "Get me once, shame on you; get me twice, shame on me..."

Now is the time to put on the FROWNEY FACE when dealing with Dahnculas.

RSVP
Cheers!
BoPeep

By Stillahealer on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 09:08 am:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/dti/dti44.pdf
Newcomers; Please read the $84million wrongful death suit filed against the kind and gentle Dahn Yoga cult. If you still want to go for JUST the exercise think again.

By Mouse on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:13 pm:

Re: Getting your money back

Problem: In this area, at least, Dahn uses a third-party collection company to handle automatic withdrawal. If you stop payment, the center itself won't raise a stink, but the collectors WILL. And they don't stop stinking until their client (i.e., Dahn) notifies them that the account is up to date. Has anybody successfully gotten around this sort of headache? *embarrassed look* I have to admit that I finally just threw the rest of the money at them to shut them up.

By Andrew Nevis on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 10:25 pm:

Rippen good stuff here. As was tellin a friend of mine, its good given the garlic (research), holy water (truth) and stake(warnings to others) to dahnrula. These fangies hate the light of day (exposing they're activity to the world). Looking at old Lee, he does look like he could be sleeping in a coffin, so pasty and fat.
Let's do be nice to the masters though, give them blessed fruits and water. Its healthy, its free and tests Qi sensivity all at the same time. Anyone up to showing compassion to the ceiling hangers in training?
Am glad people here on the board are trying to the Van Helsing to bugger Lee's spiritual mortuary. If you know any journalist, tell them what's going on, share video and photos. Dahn does not like being fully seen in the mirror of public opinion.
A fellow traveler of mine wants to join with me in setting up a board with pictures and video, it'll add the creepiness in full color. Any suggestions as to a good place to set up the alternative site?
As to being cowed hey, been there, done that, we're survivors and you can't scare us anymore.
Lastly am sending thanks for the morning inspiration to a lass, its better than coffee.

By BoPeep on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 09:00 pm:

Good Day, all!
Re: Temporary e-mail Addys
O.K., here's mine:
dahn_buster@yahoo.com
Feel free to write or I.M.
CHEERS!
BoPeep
(that is an underscore between dahn and buster, thanks!)

By BoPeep on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 08:21 pm:

To Anon below:

By all means, get out of that Cult! Come and join my cult instead, I take Visa/MC/post-dated checks...

Just kidding! I want to help you get out of your membership. The most important question is this: Did you sign a contract? If not, stop the automatic payments immediately. Tell your JWJN that 1) I am dissatisfied and 2) I am NOT coming back, and then 3) Stick to your guns. DO NOT GO BACK IN THERE!! DO NOT! Further correspondence can be handled by the United States Post Office. Make copies of everything, and don't forget to report them to the B.B.B.

If you signed a contract, you may have lost your money, but you can keep your integrity. Would they take action on a breach of contract? Would it be worth it? How much more would they be paying a lawyer than your yearly membership fee? If they did take legal action, it would be out of pure spite and to set an example. Oooh but that would not be a warm-fuzzy Chungikunny type of example, would it?

He's got an $84,000,000 lawsuit to worry about. If I know Suzie, he's going to really be slave-driving the "masters" now. The pressure is on. Don't go back in there. I forfeited my one year membership as an "expensive lesson learned". I won't go back in there, they are calling me. Get Rough. Yell. Tell 'em to f... off. I'm sorry to be that way, but remember you are just a warm body to them, all they see when they look at you is Dollar Bills.

Best of luck to you!
BoPeep

By Sttillahealer on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 08:09 pm:

I realize it is a lot to read. However there is great advise on the board about getting your money back. Writing letters and copy to State Attorney General to begin with. Do not give up.
And check out the new
http://www.newdahn.com/usa

The need our support and deep respect.

By Anonymous on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 07:24 pm:

I want to get out of my membership.
They take money out of my debit card every month- what if I just blocked them- would they take action? Can I fight them somehow? I really can't afford to lose the money.I feel they misrepresented what they are.[ I was not joining and supporting a cult when I joined. I joined for fitness.
Help!

By Bo_peep on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 05:11 pm:

(Quote)

i checked the file i saved of this board and all that was there was a happy face, a sad face and the background pattern.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wow, what a metaphor. Your Life is the background pattern, already preset by the big WebMaster in the Sky,

Ah, but you do have choices; shall I click on the smiley face or the frowney face?

My friends, we have just stumbled upon the one true religion that will save all mankind. It shall be called "SmileyFrownyism" and we shall be known as SmileyFrowneyists.

I shall be the Grand Puba of new religion, so The Big Web Master in the Sky commands you to stop reading and start sending me 1)your life savings and 2)your first-born child.

By fresh-ex on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 04:14 pm:

thanks for everybody's help!
well i just ran into a fairly new member at the store, and i did talk to her about all this. it wasn't easy... she looked at me like i was a piece of garbage, whereas she used to look up to me at the center. totally in denial- she even said there will always be bad stuff on the net about big organizations. said she wasn't that involved, etc. and acted like i was foolish for getting sucked in. then made an excuse to get away from me.
oh well, i tried and i will NEVER stop telling people the truth!!!

By Anonymous on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 02:00 pm:

Sorry if this posts twice; I don't know what happened to the one I just wrote.

Fresh-ex,
I'm just guessing, but if you saved it as a "web page complete" file, then it creates a folder with just graphics and an Internet Explorer type of file. You have to open by clicking on the latter one to see the whole document. You could also save as a single or text only file. Those seem to work just as well.

SC

By Anonymous on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 01:56 pm:

Fresh-ex, I'm going to guess that you saved it as a "complete file" rather than using the option of single file or text only.

If you save as a complete file, you end up with a 'folder' with just graphics and a Internet Explorer type of file with everything, and the latter is what you have to open to see the document. It seems to save fast and well as a text file.

SC

By Mouse on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:58 am:

So the new posts are on top, but we have to scroll all the way down to post? *boggled*

BTW, I checked my saved copy, and everything's there. I think.

By Anonymous on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:33 am:

i checked the file i saved of this board and all that was there was a happy face, a sad face and the background pattern.

Me, too! Am I posting twice?

By Undahted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:31 am:

i checked the file i saved of this board and all that was there was a happy face, a sad face and the background pattern.

Me, too! why is that?
Something more to get paranoid about...

By Stillahealer on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:09 am:

Check for new messages on top; Now you do not have to scroll down until you wish to write.

Thanks adm.

By Anonymous on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 10:50 am:

I save this web page regularly and it works in the entirety.

I go to 'edit', and click on save as, no highlighting or selecting necessary.

However, I do have the problem that my posts don't show up, like just now!

By FNM on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 10:47 am:

I save this web-page regularly, and it all gets saved in entirety.

I just go to 'edit', click on 'save as', (no highlighting or selecting necessary)

By Disillusioned on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 05:42 am:

Hello, i became a member of a Dahn Tao Center 2/15/2002. since that time i have given $11,000 to the Dahn Centers/Dahn Institute for memberships, workshops and schools. now, after doing some web research & visiting www.zyqigong.org, which linked me to this messageboard, i feel completely "ripped off" by Dr. Ilchi Lee, the founder of the Healing Society, the Dahn Institute, the Dahn Centers, Sedona Mago Gardens and his Arizona land development company (why does a self-proclaimed Dahn grandmaster need a land development?). does anyone have any further insight into these organizations? And please give me leads to trustworthy ones.

By I charge $55 a month flat rate. on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:51 pm:

11,000 Dollars? Holy cow! For that much money you had better be the best martial artist in the world with the ability to levitate, heal people with one touch and change the weather at will.

Sorry man, you ran into a shyster, pure and simple...

By Anonymous on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 11:43 am:

check out the postings on this website....
http://www.rickross.com/groups/dti.html

A family member is involved with DahnHak and I am concerned.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 05:43 pm:

I completely agree. I bought into Dahn Hak but got out as soon as I could. There is nothing original about it, basically a superficial collection of basic Hatha Yoga, Qigong and Tai Chi exercises. They are also poor instructors, pushing people into positions or movements that could do serious damage, things my past yoga instructors were knowledgable and very careful about. What makes them different is they charge an incredible amounts of money (which they don't tell you up front)and operate under many names. Also, if you look deeper into their belief system it looks much more like a religious cult. I would warn anyone to stay away from them and spend their money on more traditional Qigong practices.

By wandergirl20 on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 07:09 am:

Stay Away!! This IS a cult. Visit RickRoss.com - they suck you out of money and them want you to move into one of their communes. There is a center right here in the building I work in and I tried it out. I feel like I was brainwashed into giving them $240 for some classes. Then I heard from a friend about their ideas to repopulate the world and about forcing people into "spiritual" marraiges with Korean men to get them green cards and I was shocked. Please let everyone you know that this place is dangerous.

By Anita clementi on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 07:21 pm:

I am very sorry to find out about the Dahn institute. I am involved but I don`t see any problems. Gives me incouragement how to take care my health. I am working very hard and take these classes makes me feel better more energy mentally and emotionally.Of course cost money but I feel is for a good coast. I concentrate better less stress. And I feel great. So stop to be so negative and take good care of yourself. Money cames and go.
No one is able to tell you or me what to do. Do what`s best for you.

By Anita Clementi on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 07:49 pm:

From Anita, This Dahn center is for people who are not afraid to find out about themselves. This yoga and other programs that they have is for people that they like to better themselves, in a whay that medications doesn`t reach for many people anymore, natural why may do. This type of thai chi and yoga works. If people let themselves go, instead to beleme others. As RickRoss, well his marriege had problems long before his wife went to this place. So don`t beleme others. Look aroud what do you see, healthy marriege you think you had. Sorry I don`t think so....

By Anita Clementi on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 07:53 pm:

From Anita, This Dahn center is for people who are not afraid to find out about themselves. This yoga and other programs that they have is for people that they like to better themselves, in a whay that medications doesn`t reach for many people anymore, natural way may do. This type of thai chi and yoga works. If people let themselves go, instead beleme others. As RickRoss, well his marriege had problems long before his wife went to this place. So don`t beleme others. Look aroud what do you see, healthy marriege you think you had. Sorry I don`t think so....

By Family Student on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 09:21 am:

Anita,

I am a professional T'ai Chi teacher. I have been studying T'ai Chi Ch'uan full time for over 20 years. I have been approved by one of the "T'ai Chi families," one of the families who created the art form we have today, to teach for them because they trust me. You don't have any reason to trust me beyond that, but I'll suggest that you should be more sceptical. I know for a fact that he Dahn Institute has no T'ai Chi ability to speak of, they are taking your money for nothing. They are frauds. They aren't alone, there are many other cults out there teaching T'ai chi like motions in the process of manipulating people's lives and emptying their wallets; Mantak Chia, Falungong and Reiki come to mind as typical examples.

Start asking questions, "Where does our T'ai Chi come from?"; "Where did our teachers learn?"; "Is T'ai Chi a martial art?"; "What style of T'ai Chi are we doing?"; "If we are doing Yang style, should I read articles by the Yang family?" And then pay attention to how annoyed your cult leaders get. That should tell you something...

By dahnforged on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 11:47 am:

As a former member, I know for a fact dahnhak is a cult. One should not call anything that is honest, negative. Rickross is doing a public service showing people the real estate arm of dahnhak, the bell rock development corporation. Or the paper sales of property to the founder for $10 plus considerations. What is missing is the ninety or so names of dahn, there are some that are variations on dahn or seemingly unrelated until you do a background search by ownership. Money comes and goes, but property is forever.
Members tell me this is a philosophy, not a religion, but adapt that when they see the founder created the dahn meditation church. This is not mentionned in all the books he's written. Maybe putting in print wouldn't make him feel good? Or that great long lasting philosophies are free and give there services away.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 08:38 am:

You may be interested in the material on this site.

VisionAndPsychosis.Net is a psychology project on the Internet.

The Qi Gong and Kundalini Yoga psychotic reaction pages explain why these programs are addictive.

The Everquest Connection page explains the psychology involved and relates it to MMORPG players. Shawn Woolley's mother sued Sony believing the Everquest addiction caused his suicide. Instead the apparent addiction was caused by the conflict of human physiology explained on the site.

http://www.VisionAndPsychosis.Net

By Anonymous on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:23 pm:

I have been going to a dahn center for the past few months. I have enjoyed all of my time there and up till now have not felt any problems but things do not 'feel' quite right, not sure why. I have invested a lot of money in this - do I carry on knowing that I am feeling benefits or do I take notice of what people on these sites say and get out and lose the money. Nobody else at my center seems to have my worries.

By tiger on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 02:25 pm:

Dahn can be powerful if you use the training and use it for your own interests. The engery they teach and speak about is real.
I always said to others when they said it was a cult. I responded by breathing in and feeling good, then by saying if this is a cult then" sign me up" because I feel great. The catch is for you not to get caught up in there interests. Like working for them(although working in the center is a very rewarding experience) Spending your money when you don't have it. In a way its our own fault to spend it. Just say no a few times.However go to the Sedona(mago Garden) for your own pleasure but if your weak you will be pulled into there interests.
Don't lose yourself. I went all the way with them. It is definitely a belief system and can be used as a cult by some. I know all about the inside that others dont know but at the end your are taught life giving techniques to guide your health and life. It is a spiritual bussiness. Also RE TaiChi they teach is very powerful. The movements make you feel great. They are probably just made up by some dedicated masters in Korea or Sedona but they work.
Best, Chun Ji kiun

By Nathan Hale on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 10:42 pm:

Are people misunderstanding dahnworld? Do former members wrongly see it as a cult? Should the high level insiders be seen as enlightened (business) beings?
If one takes what Tiger writes, all that's been written at www.rickross.com and www.koreabridge.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=52&t=2483 is a product of people lacking proper understanding. Tiger is either not personally aware of the problems or Chun is a liar? Which one is it?
Chun seeks to shift the blame for problems to the victims. Blaming the victim for there problems, tries to shift responsibility from the cause, dahnhak. Typical dahn tactics.
Why are so many people finding problems with the business? Here are a few I've personally encountered as a former insider.
X Shifting teachers every 6-12 months (refusal not allowed. To refuse is to not be enlightened)
X Visa marriages sanctioned by the head office.
X Forcing members to choose between dahnhak or families. (Family break ups. So much for family values espoused by the leader)
X Lack of fiscal transperency (records are hidden on how much is earned)
X Large debts racked up taking courses. Why the high costs? (new human visa card-Korea-dahn encourages people to spend money they may not have at the time.)
X Sleep deprivation and Shim Seung weekends where people are told what they should do for dahn. (Weakened emotion states, people have trouble saying no.)
People have said no more than a few times, and still dahn has persisted, so that doesn't always work. Giving free work to dahn is a bad idea when there are so many more worthy non-businesses needing help. (ex. boy scouts, girl scouts, red cross, homeless shelters, cancer society, etc)
If you want healthy life techniques, go to a yoga class, its cheaper and much more fufilling. No pressure tactics, friendly atmosphere and no leader trying to insinuate that he is almost a divine being.
Is Chun Ji Kiun really an insider? Or an apologist, who tries to hide the truth?

By Mike Doo-Woo-Nim on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 04:00 pm:

Thank you, Rick Ross, for showing a side of DahnHak that isn't plainly visible to the new student. I'd like to share my point of view on the cult matter.
As a practicing member of DahnHak and a physician-in-training, I joined DahnHak to have a better reference point from which I can later research the mechanisms of energy healing. I viewed energy healing as a natural, cost-effective way of preventing many chronic diseases and allowing for a freer, more community-oriented and less wasteful society. The goal of all this would be to allow human beings the freedom and encouragement to pursue their own spiritual development as souls incarnated temporarily in flesh.
I soon learned that the founder, Dr. Ilchi Lee, shared the same vision of world peace and enlightenment as myself. As I became involved in various workshops, I saw the depth of the training, far beyond physical fitness or even energy healing. In a sense, DahnHak is a crash course in spiritual development. You learn to keep your mind steady, release emotional habits, connect with your inner dream and take control of your life.
Dahnhak is a spiritual movement for sure, and in that sense it may resemble a cult. But unlike the Branch Davidians or other famous cults, Dahnhak does not make you worship any person or deity, nor does it preach that it is the only path of spiritual development. For 97% of its members, it in fact encourages that they apply their newfound productivity and joyfulness to their current jobs. It aims to empower its members, rather than make them feel powerless to help themselves because of some so-called original sin.
The fact that 3% are recruited as masters or healers reflects the pace at which this movement is hoping to spread. Same with the money issue. I can only assume that the reason for this pace of expansion is that Dr. Lee feels the urgency of his message of peaceful living, especially in these times of war, hatred, and cynicism. As a businessman, he knows that only with a foolproof budget plan will this movement work. I did an estimate on the budget calculations on my own, and at this rate of expansion, they come out just even if the masters are paid $25,000/year. I have no idea what they actually get paid--if in fact they don't get paid, then Dr. Lee is pocketing $36 million a year, which would be a huge crime. But judging by his humble demeanor and words, I find this hard to imagine.
No one's perfect, and DahnHak masters don't claim to be, either. It seems that the mistakes that have happened can all be explained by internal pressure to keep up with the rate of expansion. This is unfortunate, and I hope that the headmasters follow their own advice and act in alignment with the Cosmic Energy, rather than their own fears of failure.
In short, I feel that despite its flaws and mistakes, DahnHak is still a great program for personal development, definitely worth the temporarily exhorbitant prices, and probably our best hope for a truly peaceful world.

By seaofjapanrocks on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 12:53 am:

The thoughts that the previous message expresses attempts to dispel dahn doubts. Each organization will make mistakes, and if they are small easy to forgive. Here charitable benefit is not warranteed, dahn is a cult.
It is true that it's not another branch Davidian, but there real comparisions to other known Korean cults. This has been atested to by other former members, there are real problems that come not just from headmasters, but the top as well.
The head office has been notified by various people, ex-members and state officials about problems. There is a history of inaction or rotating the bad headmaster to a new site, nothing is solved. All that dahn is doing is creating a huge, legal liability that may come back in future to haunt the organization.
Lee enjoys projecting the air of humility, but Castro does the same with his army outfits. The truth is both leaders have multiple homes. the words don't match the truth. In a recent check of the records, Lee was shown to have a place in California, Arizona and New Jersey. This is humility?
He writes that he does not need material things, can live cheaply in public parks and be free from the burden of things. Truth is he courts these things, all it takes is to look at the public records to see Lee has done very well on property.
I find it hard to imagine he has not furnished his properties. How much would that cost? There is as well the cost of his childrens education, Koreans do pay for the best.
So do imagine, the founder of dahn is indeed doing very well.
In passing through the doors, I have not seen dahn claiming world catastrophy by 2012, that is if the 100 million dahn members goal is not met. Care to refute that for the record?
Dahn claims to be a philosophy, but was incorporated in Arizona as a church, Lee's name is seen on the documents at rickross.com. Members don't mind, and have told me they'd be happy if the group was a religion, they would attend a church, mosque or otherwise, if dahn was taught there. Still Lee, states dahn has been, is and always will be only a philosophy, this establishes him as a liar, and does not speak well of the organization he created.
The facts, the problems of Nathan Hale's message remain standing. Yet these problems are not addressed. It is easy to be a pr shill, Exxon used them in Alaska, Union Carbon used them in India and dahn uses them to hide the truth they are not healing the planet. Dahn is not affiliated with any major earth healing group. Common response when a group like Greenpeace is contacted is, `what's dahn?'
Dahn has earned the cynicism.
Dahn is not worth the lost of spiritual, physical and mental freedom. Enjoy non-dahn yoga, recycle, use public transportation, environmentally friendly products, insulate your home and you will do more than dahn has to save the planet in its existence.

By Anonymous on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 11:02 pm:

I have just come from a dahn introductory "energy reading". I found their whole approach to be very invasive. The men who did the introduction were very pleasant and personable, but they hurt my internal organs with their fingers, probing my abdomen trying to "feel my energy". I thought it was all very interesting, but I have been doing internal martial arts and qi gong for several years, and I know that it should not be painful to do things that are good for you.

The man who finished my introductory examination was very forward in asking for my money, and did not take no for an answer. He pushed very hard for me to sign up for a session the very next night, and I reluctantly agreed to do so. After this, he told me that I had to give him a small amount of money ($10) for the next session, to "be sure that I showed up". I reluctantly gave him the money, but it all felt very wrong as I left. A real master of any real martial arts or healing arts would rely on your willingness to learn to motivate you to return. Also, he observed that I "still seem attached" to my other martial arts. Of course I am! I have been doing them for many years, and I have only experienced one hour of dahn, which was painful and eerie.

I decided to check into the organization when I got home, and found a lot of material that reinforced my belief that this is a cult.

Please trust your instincts, and don't feel stupid if you have briefly bought into something that turns out to not to be real. You do this every night when you dream, and dahn uses relaxation and isolation during the introduction to open you up to exactly this same dreamlike level of acceptance before they begin asking you for more than you would like to give. Later, once you start to realize that you have been fooled, your ego may try to insulate you from the humiliation of being manipulated. Don't feel stupid. It worked on me, and I am not easily fooled. I am enjoying the lesson I was given, in which I was made aware first of my own gullibility and then of my own resistance to manipulation. It is human that I let myself be fooled, and it is remarkable that my intuition helped me to know the truth. The price I paid was worth it. Let yourself laugh at the absurdity of it.

Also, the psychological impact of being financially invested in a practice should not be underestimated. If you decide that it is a cult and leave, then you will be tempted to feel like you have thrown your money away. I was told directly that they would rely on that powerful influence to bring me back.

Why would they be so worried that I would not come back, unless they doubted the value of their art? If they teach detachment, why is it important that I return?

Don't feel embarrassed. Accept the loss of the money, and realize that with it you have bought a very powerful lesson about your own desire to beliive, your attachment to money, and your desire for a group to belong to. Don't be sorry. Your goodwill and your hope were manipulated by others who were themselves in the same predicament. This powerful lesson was worth exactly what you put into it. Enjoy your new understanding, and free yourself from the environment you have now outgrown.

By Anonymous on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 07:57 am:

Some of the masters are getting paid, but not too much, they get paid thruogh Bell Rock COrp.for 50 hours a week when in fact they work for about 80 hours, and the hourly wage is 7 dollars per hour the first 40 weeks and 10 hours overtime, i know that becuse my partner was teching classes and gone from 5.30 AM to 9 PM for almost every day, so that is a real case of exploitation and taking advantage of the weakend people who wanna trust in something or somedy in this case Mr Lee.

By Not a Hippie... on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 09:50 pm:

These guys are a COMPLETE cult. what a bunch of ripoffs. Even their apologists admit that their fees are exorbitant. Save your money, kiddies, these guys are laughing at you all the way to the bank (with other people's money).

For all of you who did get ripped off by them, don't worry, there is a special place in hell for the Dahn institute thieves and other cults like them.

By Nathan Hale on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 06:21 am:

What I'm going to write here dahnworld and Seung Heun Lee won't want you to read. The material that will be presented as scattered all over the internet, today I'll try to bring most of it together. If it makes you ask questions of dahnworld and Seung Heun Lee, my work will have been successful.
I begin with the dahn business names gleamed from God's treasure chest at www.koreabridge.com
1. Bay dahn yoga 2. Boston dahn center
3. BR dahn center 4. Dahn Korea
5. Dahngun 6. Dahngun Korea
7. Dahngunnara 8. Dahnhak biz
11. Dahnhak Hawaii 12. Dahnhak Japan
13. Dahnhak USA 14. Dahnhealer
15. Dahn healers school 16. Dahn healing Institute
17. Dahn holistic center 18. Dahn holistic fitness
19. Dahn holistic yoga 20. Dahn sillim
21. Dahnworld 22. Dahnworld U.S
23. Dahn yoga 24. Dahn yoga ca
25. Dahn yoga Chicago 26. Dahn yoga NV
27. Dahn yoga tai chi 28. Health dahn
29. Mago dahngun 30. Sedona dahn center
31. Dahn meditation church 32. Dahn meditation inc
33. Aloha dahnhak 34. Dahn zen Institute
35. Dahn research institute 36. Dahn hak sun won co.ltd.
37. Aloha dahn 38. Dahn clinic co.kr
Those are the know dahn variations. The next are the new human names,
39. New human org 40. New human card (credit card - a percentage goes back to dahn with each purchase).
41. New human community 42. New human school
43. New human village 44. New human world
What follows are brain names.
45. BR power brain 46. I-power brain
47. Power brain - idoo 48. Power brain academy
49. Power brain dance 50. Power brain gum
51. Power brain kids 52. Power brain system
53. Power brain yoga 54. Brain science expo
55. Brain science institute 56.World brain science
57. The brain science
Short list is that of the founder's adopted name, Ilchi, which means finger pointing.
58. Ilchi academy 59. Ilchi broadcast
60. Ilchi bs 61. Ilchi center
62. Ilchi tv 63. Ilchi meditation
64. Ilchi vortex center
The remaining list is the remaining known names. A few of these names are from parts of the dahn empire that are no longer active.
65. Vortex Inc. 66. Arizona Vortex Inc
67. BR consulting 68. New Jersey Br Consulting Inc.
69. BRQ co. kr 70. BR system co.kr
71. Earth Mago 72. Spiritual U.N
73. BCC consulting company 74. Elmhurst Inc.
75. Tao fellowship 76. Taorobics
77. Holistic tao center 78. CGI holistic fitness
79. Healing Society 80. New millenium peace foundation
81. Healing mall 82. Han Noory inc
83. U-dap 84. Chu-I Inc
85. Healing plaza 86. Hanmunhwa (Korean for `healing society')
87. STI network Inc. 88. Yoga gallery
If there are any names missing please post them.
Dahnworld is a growing business, so it is easy to miss a few company names. Am curious as to why there are so many names?
Is it because of corporate defaults in business filings, as was done by dahnworld this summer in Arizona because Quan tae Kim, the filer used an invalid address? Or Chu-I in Colorado which closed its doors, years after ignoring a BBB complaint? This is not to say that there haven't been further complaints lodged against the dahn empire.
People have contacted the IRS to investigate potential tax evasion, attorney generals in various states know of dahn and in the forth coming future consumer protection laws maybe applied. It doesn't stop there.
J.Wilber vs Seung Heun Lee, 1997, was an Arizona civil case where the dahn empire was successfully sued for $500,000 over the wrongful death caused by dahn. In a more recent instance, July 2003, Dr. Julia Siverls of Queen's college, New York died during dahn masters training in Arizona. A tip of the negative, true iceberg on dahn, and dahn has threatened at least one print reporter from telling the rest of this story.
Question for you, can a person buy a position as a spiritual leader? That seems to be the case with Seung Heun Lee, who was a paying sponsor of a summit where he was recognized as one of the top 50 spiritual leaders of the world. He celebrated that position by having all the other leaders have a free meal on him at the Waldorf-Astorian.
Lee after all needed to have some fun, after all his alloted 2 minute speech was disrupted by one of the only gate crashers at the summit.
Guess which famous spiritual leader dahn did not protest being excluded from the paid event? If you thought Tibet's Dalai Lama, you are right, he got bounced, as did many Christian leaders. Dahn was focused on making its founder, Seung Heun, Sung Hun,(pick a name, he's got three) Ilchi Lee look good.
That is why Lee has pictures of himself next to famous politicians. Want to know what they say about him?
Hillary Rodham Clinton - No comment (Lee likes to contribute to the Democratic party - a photos worth?)
Mayor of Atlanta - no comment on him or award
Ex-Governor of Georgia - no comment, he was lost the election soon after making Lee governor for a day.
Current Governor of Arizona - no comment on dahn recognition, or the states low academic standings.
Mayor's office Houston - response to Lee being an ambassador for the city. It wasn't their idea, it was a city councillor's motion.
Houston City councillor - no comment
Okay, it was almost a strike out when it came to getting someone to explain Lee gets these awards. That is until it was pointed out, if you have a friend, sometimes a lawyer, you can get a nice pr certificate from almost any major city. Is this what Lee has done?
Anyway none of Lee's friends are willing to defend him be they a dahn in Canada to South Korea.
PR aside, I switch to Lee the liar. In books, Lee writes dahn and Christianity are compatiable, that's a lie. Why? That is because Lee denies Jesus was the son of God, and that Jesus had no power to heal, that is beyond that which people gave him. The Bible clearly says to deny the truth of Jesus is to no longer be a Christian.
Lee can't avoid that fact or produce the miracles that Jesus did while he was alive. Has Lee ever brought a person(s) who was clinically dead for hours back to life? Ever cured people with leperosy? Feed 20,000 people by causing 2 loaves and 2 fish to multiply into a horn of plenty? Brought back sight to the blind? No Lee has never done these things with his Qi or ki, it can't do these miracles, especially in Lee's hands, and that's why the above never gets mentionned in his books.
No man's divinity can bring back the dead. When Lee wants to feed a large group people, he calls a caterer or dahn volunteers, there is no miracle. Ministers have told Lee that he's speaking and writing falsely, he doesn't care.
Nor does he care about the homeless in our cities. Is that because they have no money? Does that explain his pursuit of stressed individuals who do have jobs?
Lee has stated that all we need to heal ourselves is brain respiration (increased right breathing - dangerous in polluted atmospheres like South Korea or major cities - potentially harmful mutations). Why then does dahn sell expensive gold turtles and wands for healing? The latter sentence undermines the total value of the mind to heal, it can either do the job or it can't with dahn training.
All the evidence is dahn is a cult. Now by reading this message you now know more that any dahnmaster about the size of there organization. All of this brought to you by a former dahn teacher.

By Anonymous on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 12:38 am:

This is so scary!
I am a former Dahn Member (got away just on time to have my brains intact, or so I hope)
Does anyone have any idea how to stop this monster from taking over the world?
It is amazing how fast it's spreading all over the U.S.A. and how many faces to this evil.
I feel sorry for the "masters" - i have no idea what's holding them tight to the "Grand master"? But I feel even more sorry for the people who lost their loved ones or their friends to this monster.
I think people should know the truth about danger of Dahn Hak!

By Nathan Hale on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 01:29 am:

Letters from the friends and family who have lost members to dahn are all too common. The cult told me to drop family, that is if they opposed my being a teacher. There is no instance known where dahn has not demanded this, its all suppose to be in the name of Lee's false enlightenment.
On the name front forget two names.
89. Bell Rock Development Corporation (active and registered in at least 9 states. The cult's business arm)
90. Healing Society (the publishing arm, registered in Nevada, controlled in Arizona)
Yes, people should know the truth about dahn, it is a real octopus, but dahn is fighting that you not know the truth in print.
(anonymous - your brains are fine, you got out.)

By Anonymous on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 10:41 pm:

Well, to me this is enough information to start asking Mr. Lee some good question. This is enough info for a great TV show or news report for the major news channel or for the NPR. Where is our media, where is our Attorney General? What’s different between Lee and Usama? The only difference I see is the methods by which they choose to accomplish their evil goal. Bur they do have the same goal – ultimate power and control of the world. And for us ….. sit back and choose between Islamic Fundamentalism in head scarf and burka or Korean Totalitarianism in Dahn Hak uniform.

By Nathan Hale on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 04:55 am:

Anonymous, it can be hard for people to believe all that goes on in dahn. Lee will fall eventually, the question is how many lives will he have damaged when it happens. There are many good questions to ask Lee.
Here are 7 points to ponder about what the `cosmic mind' did not give Lee.
1. He did not get the gift of tongues or the ability to learn languages faster. (Lee has translators work for him in every English city he visits.)
2. He did not get a perfect memory of the Bible, forgets miracles of Jesus. (Lazarus, feeding the multitude, water in wine, etc)
3. He does not have the ability to heal illnesses, beyond that might be stressed induced. (common cold, flu, cancers from leukemia to milanoma, leprosy, ailments found in a hospital, etc are beyond his power)
4. He has no new knowledge in the maths, sciences, humanities, archeology and technology. (these are the fields a cosmic mind should excel).
5. He has no caring for the homeless or for those in small farming communities.(There is no profit from those who have no money or not enough members for a center.)
6. He no real humility, he is way below the standard set by Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King and Albert Schweitzer.
7. He has not the will to make the empire environmentally friendly. His has not made the publishing arm, `Healing Society' print on recycled paper or use healthy ink. He has not made his Ilchi center in Sedona, a showcase for physically healing the planet. (There are no solar panels, heat pumps, reclimation systems for waste or other expected healing tech. The material used to build the center is standard and not as environmentally friendly as it should be. Want to see healthy places, check George W Bush's Crawford ranch, Dick Cheney's v.p residence and the Body Shop head office. These three are more enlightened on the practical, personal healing of the planet than Lee and his cosmic mind.

By Anonymous on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:30 am:

I had a privilege to listen to Lee's lectures,
So I have my own impression about him:
He is as close to enlightenment as Kim Jong Il the leader of North Korea or Saddam Hussein
His manners are grotesque and his ability to express himself could be compared only to Hitler or Mussolini if you could imagine this two in a comedy setting
He knows only two English words "understand?" and "smile", which would be OK for an autistic child but seems like a strange arsenal for a future Leader of the world.
He has a huge pot belly and I can't imagine him doing bowing or holding any postures.
His knowledge of science and medicine (especially neuroanatomy) could be compared elementary school student.
Now, how in a world this crook gets hold of magnificent information on ancient practice of energy healing and exercise? And now he puts this information to use in the most evil way! Who did he cheat? Where did he still? Who did he betraid?
Those are $60,000 quetions

By Not a Hippie... on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 10:39 pm:

Magnificent information? They are hacks. You don't see any news reports about them curing cancer or living to the age of 100. No, you hear about them declaring themselves to be enlightened, taking piles of money from people and breaking up families.

They and those like them are ultimately stealing from themselves. Anyone you meet could be a Buddha. Jesus said "as you do unto the least of these you do unto me." So these cultists are ripping off and abusing Buddha and Jesus every day. I feel sorry for them.

By Nathan Hale on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 08:02 am:

Not a hippie, please don't be hard on Anonymous, she has added valuable information on dahn. This may not have been easy, the totally angry stage of withdrawl from the cult, might have not hit. Thanks to Anonymous's input I learned that I was totally overestimating Lee's intelligence, used to think he was just choosing willful ignorance.
Anonymous also has a point about the dictatorship aspect of Lee. According to dahn these are a number of rules.
1. Dahn members should only marry only other dahn members, all to raise little new dahn members.
2. Dahn teachers have to live only where the head office tells them to live. (Lee tells himself he can live in Palos Verdes Penin, Ca. Sedona, Ar and either Ridgefield, N.J or Alpine, N.J, as well as a home in South Korea)
3. Dahn members are told not to ask questions, as this is an eastern philosophy. (Maybe that's why it died out, the serious questions killed it?)
4. Dahn parents are encouraged to send their children to BR (brainwashing?) classes, where they learn stress management, brain enhancement and esp. (To do dahn esp, write large on a single piece of paper, pass to person with eyes closed, allow them to feel paper, if they can read the impressions, they have dahn esp.)
Yes, all of the 4 points above are abusive, and speaks very poorly of Lee, who doesn't care who he hurts. Let's spread the word about this man.

By Quaffs dragons on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 06:04 am:

G'day mates, Twiligger here. Maybe we've met at the `Three Kings' in Fulham. If we haven't come on over, and I'll buy you a pint.
We can swag stories over a few pints. No doubt you've had your share of funnies, tragedies and birds worth loving. Ah, the memories, time for another pint.
Good English ale, the stuff that gets enlightenment flowing. Here is where me mates tell how we snookered the Korean dahn enlightenment cult at Surbitron center.
One of me mates got introduced to Surbitron by a cute visiting Korean bird. One thing led to another to another, bullocks, the only thing it led to was the center.
He nearly burst a seam stepping into the place, it was eastern mysticism light, hold the curry, add the kim chi. Here were chakkra pictures, images of happy, stoned Koreans doing the yoga and the founder, Il Chi (Seung Heun) Lee (Il Chi means finger pointing at enlightenment. Me mate, felt it was man giving the finger.) This aside, me mates gets loved bombed by the Korean staff, hugs and friendly conversation.
In no time at all, they have him wearing a loaned Korean kimono, (stardate 4336 on it - the dahn year calender). Teacher here has a goal, wants to my mate to exercise, to prove he's had a pint to many. Everyone who comes here has a pint to many, it's policy.
Afterwards over tea, the teacher discusses Qi and dahn's `healing society'. Being the kind souls they are, the staff invites me mate back, provided he brings quid and an open heart (and an empty brain - no rickross.com). He tells them he'll think about it.
Korrie bird adds to the salespitch, me mate scuffs her off. Amber nector calls, and so do we, that's how we learn about dahnhak. Welcome to a koreancentric philosophy from 3500 b.c, that believes the first enlightened man was Korean (ha, ha, this gets us singing, he really was an Englishman). Anyway me mates roar, the Korean's acorn got flamed and died out (as did the dahn trademark - enlightened leader).
Pisser is the dahn thing was brought back to life by Dr.Lee. Korean man's burden, the bloke wants to bring enlightenment to us backward 1st world savages that taught the world Shakespeare, democracy and the internet. Seems more that he wants to shag our brains off. I need a pint.
Now we're very open to enlightenment modern style, just last week we found all the enlightenment the world needs in Amsterdam. We agree with Lee everyone should be enlightened, its just that we prefer using vino veritas, ale veritas and Amsterdam veritas. Being the stuck up bastard (former clinical psychologist), my way is the best way, he excludes proven short cuts. Cut to the quick, dahn smells of cult. We decide after a few enlightening, meditative ales at `the kings' to test these Corries.
I become the chosen one. We strategize with the ale flowing freely, we pass out with a plan.
A week later, fresh and pressed, I walk into the green grassed and leafy Surbitron area. The place spews proper gran England with English church names, here dahn is nearly invisible.
Cheerful faces greet me when I walk in the door. Me mate described them as Andies (androids - on the surface they appear human, but the key human spirit-spark is gone-welcome to dahn results). Program activated they ask me how I came to learn of dahn? Bull shitting say read Lee's `Twelve steps to selling snake oil', and was inspired (to laugh, to use a book for kindling).
I'm in, I brought quid.
(End of part 1)

By Anonymous on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 11:40 pm:

I love this tale. Can't wait for part 2!

By Anonymous on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 11:23 pm:

Response to the Dahn bad news web site:

All organizations have problems, dissenters, and those who feel slighted, and apparently Dahn is not spared all of the above. I have been a member for 2 years and have found the experience to be positively transforming. I come to Dahn from a background in Tibettan Buddhism. Buddhism in general does not completely agree with Dahn. That does not mean that I cannot take the best of Dahn, particularly the ability to work with the whole physical, energy & spiritual body. Buddhist practices as I have experienced them center around meditation and visualization techniques, which mostly focus on the spiritual body. These techniques are very powerful if used properly to transform the mind from its grasping and rejective state of ignorance to its state of true nature. Dahn brings this transformation to the other 2 bodies very effectively.

People complain that Dahn masters have given them a hard sell to engage in various outside trainings. The focus does not appear to be primarily financial, in my view. The outside trainings, especially Shim Sung, are very transformative. I myself was very transformed. I got in touch with a lot of emotional depth which I had buried under a lot of workaholism. Emotions are not really emphasized in mainstream Buddhism. They are not to be repressed, but there are not really effective Buddhist practices I have encountered which deal directly with emotions. Ditto Christianity, Judiasm, Islam, Hinduism. Dahn is a complete, wholistic practice system which is congruent with virtually everybody.

I guess like with all Westerners, it comes down to money. If someone appears to be making a profit right there in the open, they are scorned and secretly envied. This is the Western spiritual practice of "one-up put-down." Just be a little successful and, when word gets out, see how you are treated.

There are two kinds of movements. Those which are well-funded and those which are poorly funded. In the latter, fundraising becomes one of the primary organizational focuses. Bake sales, raffles, collections, grant writing, faith-based inititiatives, become at least 50% of the focus of such an organization and sometimes closer to 80%. It becomes a matter of survival.

Dahn facilities are very clean, beautiful and well-run. The funding issues are handled up-front by charging all us middle class gripers a reasonable fee. An amount is charged for a Dahn function and it seems apparent that the charges facilitate very comfortable settings for the seminars and practices. Mago Garden is excellent, and obviously constructed on a careful budget. The trainings such as Shim Sung are conducted in well-appointed hotel facilities. The underlying stress which pervades functions of underfunded spiritual organizations detracts from the whole experience. Dahn does not have this problem.

Sure, Dahn charges a good deal, but few say you don't get what you pay for. There are a lot of approaches to Dahn, and if you don't want to go full bore, you can approach it at your own level. Dahn's audience are adults capable of explaining that they don't want to get into the program beyond a certain point. If you feel noodged, simply be firm about your level of commitment. Nobody gets dragged to these sessions by a press gang.

Maybe Dr. Il Che Lee is living in a nice home. I have no problem with that. He isn't living a lavish life style like some other so-called gurus such as Sun Myung Moon (who was convicted of tax fraud for looting the Unification Church). Dr. Lee spends his time giving speeches and seminars, meeting with dignitaries and spreading the word of world peace, seeking to create a generation of Earth Humans, inventing exercises and brain respiration techniques and the like. You never hear that he was passed out in Vegas behind one of the tables, or out on someone's yacht. There is absolutely no evidence that the money he has came to him in any improper way. He invented some very excellent devices and practices and as Westerners, we should realize that this is worth a good deal of money. If this stuff was being marketed commercially, the company would make a good deal of money and Dr. Lee would be in for significant royalties.

Great spiritual leaders of the past have not always lived in the hedgerows. The Holy Prophet Muhammad married well, and, after enduring a good deal of personal hardship, was supported by the Muslim in comfort. Hindu spiritual leaders are known to live well (although many are extreme ascetics). People tried to give Jesus material things, but his ministry was to the poor and he had to make the most of a short teaching period so he dwelt among a variety of people. The Buddha started out living as a prince. He renounced this kind of life and engaged in 6 years of stringent ascetic practices. Realizing that mere asceticism did not lead to enlightenment, he abandoned the pure ascetic approach for the Middle Way, which can be briefly summed up as taking things as they come and not becoming attached to them or letting either riches or poverty dominate your mind.

Marpa, one of the saints of Tibettan Buddhism, returned to Tibet after a sojourn in India, where he received the most escoteric teachings, and took up the position of a wealthy, married landowner, although he is recognized as being an individual of very high realization. Marpa trained Milaripa, the most beloved Tibettan saint, during this period. Milaripa spent 20 years wandering in the wilderness practicing and he is said to have reached enlightenment. Material circumstances of a person, so long as they are not defiled, do not define that person's spirituality. Milaripa never condemned Marpa for living well.

Dr. Lee I hope lives very well. Unless he is living on misappropriated donations, I really don't have a problem with his life style. There is absolutely no evidence that he is living on donations. If you are in his presence, you realize that he is a realized practitioner with a clear mind. The Dahn organization proves this, because it takes difficult spiritual concepts and practices and makes them very accessible right down to the physical level.

Another "gotcha" seems to be that there are people in the Dahn organization who are working cheap. Maybe they need to unionize? Anyhow, I never met anyone in Dahn who was not a sane adult making a choice. If you want more financial compensation, health care and the like, get an outside job which provides these things. I have worked at the IRS Exempt Organizations Division examining cult-like organizations which claim to be tax-exempt. I don't get the feeling that anyone in the Dahn organization is being forced or brainwashed into doing anything. The peer pressure as in any organization can possibly be strong, and everyone has an individual story to tell. But there does not appear to be a systematic attempt to recruit those psycologically vulnerable to cult exploitation. Many religious organizations have attracted people who want to remain single and wholeheartedly deducated. Catholic clergy, Buddhist monks and lamas, ascetics of all types abound. In fact, I do not think that Dahn has any strict formula for being a family person or a single person, although to achieve the highest Dahn has to offer, you need to be able to make a serious time commitment.

Lastly, when you start on a spiritual practice path, the first thing you encounter is the stuff in your makeup that is the least pleasant. Jesus was tempted by the devil. The Buddha, on the eve of his manifesting complete enlightenment, underwent extensive temptations by the devil. When you pull the cork out of the bottle, everything comes out. Unfortunately, some people on the spiritual path get to a point of extreme discomfort. Monastic settings have ways of dealing with this, but some of this stuff can come up as a result of Dahn practices too. It happened to me. Although Dahn is a human organization like every other, the masters are able to work with these situations and they are alert for something like this happening. Like doctors, who cannot guarantee a cure, a Dahn master can only do their best. It is not the system that is at fault, but rather it is the fault of human nature, exposed to the pure light of Ki. If you never do anything to improve, you will simply drag all this stuff into your next lifetime, where who knows how it will manifest? If you are looking for a perfect set of practices which do not bring these issues to light, please search diligently and report to me immediately when you find it.

Personally, I endorse Dahn without reservation. I highly recommend it to anyone. I regret that I came to it so late in life and that my own resources are not sufficient to allow me to go further faster, although I identify myself on a gradual track to becoming a master.

What would you rather do? Let a job beat you to death, then move to a retirement condo in Florida, or spend your life trying to realize the goal of improving the world's energy and reversing the obvious trend downward?[list=][/list]

By Honesty checker on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 04:00 am:

This site has just been spammed. Previous message is spam, it was posted, no changes last week to www.rickross.com. Anonymous chap, he used his name at Rick Ross, got rebutted there.
Consider the message to be a drive by spamming. Quick shot and vanish. No time is apparently spent looking at the material showing the 90 odd names of dahn corporations, the E-2 marriages, the 4 homes for Lee, the lip service by dahn for the environment and the high costs.
The previous writer, the man has incorrected been brainwashed into thinking enlightenment can be bought. He wishes he could buy himself a higher consciousness faster. If it could really be bought, the rich would already be there.
Those who believe otherwise have been duped. Reading the statements of the previous writer illustrate ignorance.
Jesus is painted as a social worker, because if the miracles were added, it would highlight one of Seung Heun Lee's many shortcomings. Point of fact, Seung Heun Lee writes of his miraculous powers, totally absurd, as it leads people to think he's almost divine. Lee has no power to heal other people, except by the power of suggestion.
Looking at Lee, he should start with healing his own body, it is overweight and in need of a personal trainer, as well as a dietician. Check the negative health effects of fat on the net. American-Korean diet?
As to Anynonmous next time don't be so lazy by sending a spam. Make a real effort between bs, er BR training.

By Quaffs dragoons on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 12:28 am:

G'day again mates. No brain fuzzed apologists here. We're not dahnhakist PR twinkies. You won't find support amongst us for Lee's lying bunch of sods.
Me mates and me will try to use simple English. Maybe we can get the brain shagged (enlightened) to understand. It's a stretch.
On with me story.
Being first day, Smiley (wrongjammednib-Korean for dahn teacher) uses it to evaluate. Wants to see where me blockages are, cute, me teacher moonlights as an uncertified doctor. Old Qi saw bones gives me diagnosis, it isn't good. Can almost here andies gears whirl when that's spoken.
Isn't it good I was guided to dahn. Gimps right, the force sent me.
Beaut is, it provided me with phony name and background. (dahn shark meet English orca) Friggen predictable, the wrongjammednib wants me personal information. Dahn wants a commitmentment.
Hear joining is for me own good, wanker, wants me to join immediately. How will I be paying? Quid naturally, me wallet finds enlightenment and gets no dahn receipt.
Cult is suppose to deal in trust. Accept that line, so leave the white kimono with the crazy calender and the masonic style new age symbolism at the center. It goes without saying, that even thieves have better taste than to steal a dahn outfit.
Hand me a pint. Lifesaver me needs to wash the taste of dahn out of me mouth. Good brew has excellent medical effects.
Positive effects are what I need after me first real day with dahn's wrongjammednib. Teacher chats me up, tries to become me mate. it's too forced. I laugh and head for the `Kings'. Me mates are understanding and want the news.
They buy the first pint. Best mates, wanker Lee's cult has built a thirst.
Dahn needs an autopsy.
Dahnhakism, as one of mates calls it, is founded on philosophical ideas similiar to Marxism, both can easily proven to be wrong. Lee's dahnhakism demands behaviour that is opposite to human nature, advanced dahnhakists comprehend that they cannot create the world envision without altering (spiritual blunt force trauma), borgifying (assimiliating) human nature, or as dahnhakism calls it, making a `new human' minus a few of the orginal parts (creative soul, free thinking and free will.)
Who gets the job (missionary position) of assembling this new human?
Wrongjammednib, it's their task to ease blokes such as meself away from pints, birds, fun and information truthful about dahnhakism. Bastards do this by trying to create dependency, breaking down things we trust and replacing them with dahn. Typical yaboo stuff, indoctrination by deception, dahnhakism makes marxism look good.
Pull me another pint. Dahnhakism like communism can't handle critical questions, it pisses them off. Smegheads, with there supposedly superior power brains with brainwashed smugness, can't successfully defend the philosophy its hurling. Members are told to either shut with the questions or leave, reasoning, inquiring minds are not dahnhakists minds.
So me mates agree, I'm not to ask critical questions. Keep the dahnhakists happy, fake worship like the rest old bugger Lee. Total larf, Lee being semi-divine, poor daft arse, if he believes his own self-promoted cloak of self-divinity.
Tells people he can kill with a thought, free will kills that luncacy.
Back to the honeymoon with dahn. Exercise cult takes a few weeks before they move from workout to recruitment. Gentle probes and false answers are over, they wankers really want me. They honestly want me, it's time to do them back.
Snookering part one is ready to happen.
(End of part 2)

By Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 08:52 pm:

Wow" All the above info is interesting but very busy. Its seems the mind is busy. I suggest that everyone one should really just meditate and do 103 bows every night and morning for 21 days. Practice will reveal the truth.
After reading all the above comments there are two entities. Dahnhakism and RickRossism. The dahnhakers fight for the practice because it has honestly changed them and RickRossers fight for their beliefs also. Who is right? It is said there is no right or wrong. Do the writers above work for RickRoss? It is obvious that the dahn comments are from dahnhak practitioners and ex masters/teachers or existing. At the ened of the day you look in the mirror. You have have to ask yourself if you are really practicing your best to reach enlightenment
Best Regards

By Quaffs dragoons on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 10:39 pm:

What a wank. There is no right or wrong, that's balmy talk. It's equal to saying it's okay, if Manchester United fans stamp on Seung Heun Lee's face. That practice would honestly change his view, as it makes physical the concept of right and wrong. It's commonsense. By the previous writer's writing he/she is obvious still waiting.
It's here.
Anonymous needs a grounding in reality. All change is not good, it's evolution or devolution, right or wrong, dahnhakism is a pissing dead ender dinosaur. No meditation is needed, no fraggin worthless bow training is required, enlightenment comes for free.
Why is Anonymous too daft not to see the truth? Would you like to pay a shit load of money for air?
At the end of the day me and mates accept we are enlightened. We have enligtenment about dahn, toffs, birds and wankers who can't get it up, latter tend to call themselves spiritual leaders.
Bleedin arses ignore the victims, say waters fine. Catch is you have to ignore the injuried and the dead.
Practice has revealed the truth, it's here, it's at rickross, it's at koreabridge and it's growing with each year. Lee's due for a fall like communism in Europe. Cheers!
As to us being in the employ of Rick Ross, piss off, we don't work for yanks.
Time for a pint. Anonymous care for a pint, you need a few.

By tina lang on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 03:37 pm:

I am glad I have only been a member for 4months. I have spent almost $3000.00 dollars in these four months and I am a young single girl on my own, I have been scammed. I wondered all along if I was in fact being scammed, I was told that I had emotional problems with "holding" my emotions to often so to solve this I should not just "hold" my money,I should spend 1000.00 of it on pointless healing sessions, I was told, "what I ever I spend I will get back......" what does that mean. hahahahahahaa. I really liked my master she was my age and I could relate to her, I really became attached to her. I would be happy just looking at her. I saw her as strong and peaceful, everything I wanted to be, I even started eating like her. Now I see her as weak and exploited, I almost want to help her, she is a beautiful young girl who deserves a real life! I am also very angry because I have emptied my bank account for her, she told me it would be good for self-healing to spend my money , what a joke! I don't know what to do next, should I stop cold turkey or should I call and explain I am no longer interested this creepy organization. I have met so many nice people at Dahn and I hope that they realize they are being made fools of. I wish there was something more I could do.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 08:45 pm:

My wife joined Dahn Hak 17 months ago.They have milked a 65 year old grandmother who after all this time is still sore after every session.She is gone constantly ,all hours of the day and night and is under the control of the Masters who have her so brainwashed that I can't convince her she is getting ripped off. They just conned her into another $10,000.00 program which she had to decide on immediately. That now brings her total up to $42,000.00. I'm ashamed of myself for letting this go so far. I've read on Rick Ross how Dahn Hak can break up marriages.Well guess what? It's breaking up mine after 42 years. I've had it!

By Phil on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 02:22 pm:

Dear Husband of the 65 year old grandmother. This exact thing happened to me only my wife was 51. She has not to my knowledge spent as much as your wife but since we are now divorced it could be more.
I tried intervention but she would not have anything to do with it.To this day I truly believe she is under the spell of her masters as you seem to think your wife is.
You have my sympathy ,I know what you are going through and I can only tell you from my own experience that there isn't much you can do about it except get on with your own life.
Best of luck....

By Anonymous on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 11:31 pm:

I have a friend whose spouse has been sucked into the "dahn hak world" of lies and deception. My feeling is that this organization appeals to those who are lost and seeking acceptance and some kind of "order" that they cannot get from the world as we know it. Please help if you can by describing your experiences at getting your husband or wife to quit this organization, and if you were able to do this, how did you go about it? And if you were not, what happened? I have two friends who have loved ones involved in this and would really like to know more....Skeptic in Seattle

By Anonymous on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 11:38 am:

I do think that most of what is being is said is true. I have been doing Dahn Yoga for almost a year. I have repeatedly "Just said no" to the incessant pushes into extra classes and Healer School. I currently pay about $100 per month to attend classes.

However, despite there being obvious cult activities that you can get sucked into in Dahn Yoga, I have had miraculous results physically since I started doing the exercises. I was almost totally immobile when I first started taking these classes and had been for several years (I had tried many other healing methods and none had worked). I am now very physically active and am grateful to have learned the Dahn Yoga exercises.

The challenge for me will be to know when it is time to leave. I want to continue being healthy but often get tired of saying "I just don't have the money" when the "Master" wants me to go to healer school ($10,000!!!).

Dahn Yoga is definitely not for anyone who is easily persuaded into giving up money and is looking for "spiritual purpose" without being very grounded in life. However, I am also certain that there is something good about the philosophy of activating acupunture and acupressure meridians while exercising. The $1,000 I've paid so far has given me far more benefits than I could have ever imagined.

Also Dahn Yoga is not Anti-Christian unless you are a Fundamentalist Christian. Christians who don't have such rigid beliefs will most likely not be offended by the teachings (except for the cultish stuff...)

By Ellie on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:35 pm:

I went to Dahn Hak for about four years. The further you get into it, the more money they ask for, and the pushier they get. The hard thing is to separate out the physical/emotional benefits from the pressure to spend more money, and become ever more involved. I have no doubt that the exercises work, are beneficial, and are based on Qi Kung, Tai Chi and Yoga. Being familiar with a lot of different practices, I suspect that someone researched diverse methods, and put together a combined practice, and called it Dahn Hak. I really doubt that it's an ancient Korean tradition that was re-discovered by Ilchi Lee. Several fellow students quit because they were told/threatened with bizarre consequence. In one case a fellow student was told that if she didn't take the healing seminars at an exorbitant cost, she would go to hell. I personally was told that if I didn't spend another $6,000 on top of the $6,000 I had just given them, that I would lose my chance for enlightenment in this lifetime. They were calling me at home, and pressuring me at the classes. I believe the person who told me that is a naive American kid, who has been brainwashed by the organization, and given the title of 'Master'. I told him that he had been hornswoggled, and I quit Dahnhak. I found a reputable teacher with a known family lineage, who charges $10 a class.

By tina on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 01:42 pm:

To all the people who have written recently I wish that we could all work together to at least slow dahnhak. I recently lost my job and if I hadn't given dhan yoga three thousand dollars I would have quite a safety net right now, thanks to them brainwashing me I am in great financial risk. I am trying to get people to help me with making other people aware by calling newspapers, informing store that advertise the Dahn Yoga Brochure(I have encouraged many store owners to discard them) and basically keep talking about what a bad and manipulative organization it is. Another reason I am so passionate about getting the word out about Dahn is that I met the nicest people there, most of them were not from this country and were here alone with no family to turn to, Dahn became their family and soon sucked away all of their money. Also the organization seduces "lost souls" who are lost and innocent (usually very nice, open minded people)these people should not be taken advantage of as I was in my very weak state. I had been suffering severe depression when I joined and I was sucked in, Soon I realized what a joke it was. I share my story with everyone I can especially people interested in spirituality and yoga.

By on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 - 12:22 pm:

For all of you who keep referring to the "Rick Ross" websight. Here's a little background info.

Rick Ross has his own website where he calls himself a .cult. expert. He doesn.t have any degrees as a cult expert, he never went to any school to become one, no one but himself has ever labeled him that (and tabloid TV shows he has appeared on.) Rick has led a life of petty crime, was a kidnapper and for one case in which he was caught was fined $2,500,000 by a jury in Seattle, Washington (in 1995) for his part in holding an adult male for five days in a remote location to change the man.s interpretation of the Bible.

Rick has called Christians .Bible thumpers., has had extensive psychiatric history. He does not talk about this on his website and does not give refunds for the families who he has left in tatters after his violations of human rights (people have the right to believe as they wish in America . maybe Rick thinks he lives in Nazi Germany?) He is the last person anyone who is concerned about a family member or loved one.s choices should turn to for advice or .help..

Yes, Rick appeared on TV and media in the 1970/80.s. But this office has called media and told them about Rick.s criminal past and the tabloid media have directly told us (this was 20/20 TV show) .Criminal history is not something that would stop us from putting someone on our show..) Good information for any of you who think tabloid journalism has any sense of ethics.

The point is, do you want to make things better or worse? Do you want to actually make sure the person you are concerned on is on a life path that will satisfy them and be healthy?

If so, Rick Ross is not your man for consultation. He knows and repeats the bad, the outrageous. Imagine him describing a professional football game to someone who has never seen one . .Men smash and hit each other, they bleed, they have to wear protective clothing to prevent permanent injury. It is barbaric. It is outrageous. It is an athletic cult and I will get your son out of it. He.s been brainwashed..

There is much public information about Rick.s arrogance, his refusal to correct lies, and his false assertions that vicious things he has said to people are copyrighted.

We are posting those here and will continue to do so.

Do not pay Rick Ross any money. Call our 800-556-3055 hotline. We.ll get you real help from a professor or a pastor who will charge you NOTHING. Let.s force Rick to go out and get a real job. Like dog catching.

Listed below are articles about Rick Ross

Rick Ross Sued For $10 Million
A letter from a woman who recently dealt with Rick Ross
About his lies about Jesus People USA
A site exposing the truth:
Jesse Walker makes a statement about Rick Ross.s .expert. status
Even A Stopped Clock Is Right Twice A Day

By tina on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 05:23 pm:

Hello sweetie, you certainly don't have to be a "cult expert" to know dahn yoga is a cult, you Shauna must be truly brainwashed and stupid. I never read a single word from any of Rick Ross's websites BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HIM! I realized on my own that Dahn is a cult and they took $3000.00 from me, now I am unemployed and have nowhere to live, get a clue Shauna, enlightenment does NOT cost thousands of dollars, what do they do with this money to help the planet or people in need, NOTHING!

By Sincere on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 05:54 pm:

Yeah, Rick Ross doesn't have anything to do with it. I feel sorry for the folks who got swindled by DH. That is what a real martial arts school is handy for, even though there are cults in that business, too. If they concentrate on self-defense then they are usually OK, if they spout mysticism, then run away.

Common cults in the martial art/qigong field are:

1. Mantak Chia; "Healing Tao" sex cultist.

2. Falungong; Li Hongzhi will protect you from the aliens who want to eat your brain.

3. Reiki; where you learn to charge hundreds of dollars (by paying thousands of dollars) for doing absolutely nothing but waving your hands making random squiggles in the air over your "patients."

4. Taoist T'ai Chi Society; a pyramid scheme owned and operated by a group of lawyers in Toronto. After three months of their incompetent lessons you are promoted to "master" and you can teach anything as much as you want as long as you remember to keep sending those payments to the lawyers in Toronto...

There are others, as well, I'll post more as time allows...

By Anonymous on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 12:23 am:

Let's talk a few more dahn facts. There was an expose print article in Toronto `Stepping into the Dahn' that came out last week. Those wanting to read it, go to rickross.com.
No doubt other articles with photos, will be published in other parts of the world in the next year.
On a more personal note have visited Moak mountain where Lee has claimed he found enlightenemnt. There one saw dahn members only wearing in winter hanbok (traditional Korean clothes) bowing to the mountain. A happy dahn member asked if the writer felt the vortex (suction or dispersal) of the site? No, it felt like all the other 20 odd mountains one has hiked in Korea, except none other have signs saying this way to Lee's place of enlightenement.
Building wise, the dahn complex is indistinguishable from any Buddhist temple site. A regular hiker would believe that, especially if they asked, that is until they say they were looking for Lee's special site. This will get the dahn member to open up and say this is the place that Lee built on the side of a mountain.
As to Rick Ross, he's openly honest about his past and been exonerated. People can trust him. On dahn, let the facts speak for themselves.

By Anonymous on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 12:44 am:

With all due DISRESPECT, Shauna, you deceptively neglected to disclose that you represent the website "CAN," which is a Scientology front group. Your expose on Rick Ross shows how you and your group distort the truth.

Typical of defenders of dangerous cults, you attack the messenger (Ross) instead of answering the concerns (re: Dahn).

I did a little research myself on your claims, Shauna. Do you know how I was able to do this research? Because, while you deceptively hid your true association (with CAN) and your devious and misleading agenda (to defame Ross since his role in exposing Scientology), he is incredibly transparent and open about who he is, his purpose, and his past.

Rick Ross openly says he has no advanced degree, but anyone can see that his experience and accomplishments more than make up for that. And, the academic credentials of members of his organization's advisory board are replete with all the advanced degrees anyone could wish for.

There is no such advanced college degree in cult awareness, but thanks to Rick Ross, college students can be honored to hear his lectures, as he lectures at many esteemed universities.

But, you are a hypocrit to even mention Rick Ross's academic credentials. Look at L.Ron Hubbard's education -- if you can ever sort out the truth from the lies.

RE: Rick Ross's "kidnapping" charge, if you are referring to the case involving Jason Scott, you neglected to divulge this:

(From a news article: "Ross, who was to pay much of that money, signed a settlement with Scott in 1996, entitling Scott to $ 5,000 and 200 hours of Ross' time as an intervention specialist. Ross Said he and Scott are friends now, and Scott often visits him at home. The people involved in the Supreme Court case still say they are in a group called CAN, but a Scientologist has bought legal rights to the name. The group that sprung from that purchase 'espouses the exact opposite views of what the old CAN used to espouse,' said Paul Lawrence, appellate attorney for the old group."

RE: 20-20, that program is far from "tabloid journalism." They weren't interested in Ross's criminal past, a charge from 30 years ago, because it wasn't relevant.

Rick Ross openly and transparently discloses all of his legal history at his own website.

But, you are a hypocrit to even bring up Ross's involvement with the law and lawsuits. How many times has Scientology been sued or sued others in frivilous suits, and how many cases have they lost, Shauna? And, please tell us about the Hubbard's criminal convictions, oh please do tell. Why doesn't CAN transparently reveal all about L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology as Rick Ross honestly reveals about himself? Is your website's bandwidth too small?

You mentioned here a "letter from a woman who recently dealt with Rick Ross." I read that letter on your website. This woman discredits Ross and his work simply because he answered her email in a "pithy" tone. Gee, that makes Rick Ross a really bad man, huh? You neglected to mention that she admitted she is "pathetically thin-skinned." And then she sent him bible quotes having nothing to do with anything. Inappropriate! Anyone else would have ignored her, but he answered concisely and she condemns him for it.

Meanwhile, defamation, which includes purposely lying about someone to discredit him as you have done here against Rick Ross, is against the law. Perhaps we will see your name on a docket someday.

I would like to feel sorry for you, as you have obviously been brainwashed yourself via Scientology, but you make it hard because you have defamed a wonderful man who founded a life-saving organization. I urge you to get help for yourself!

By Anonymous on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 01:10 am:

If you want to do something about this deadly business of Dahn, (and I refer literally to the death of a young, perfectly healthy woman, Julia Siverls, a professor from NYC who died at a Dahn Institute training program trusting these so-called experts on health and exercise and spiritual enlightenment,) then contact your local police, your state's attorney general, the IRS, the Better Business Bureau, etc. Send your stories to Rick Ross. Form a local support group to help Dahn members and instructors who feel trapped, totally dependent on Dahn, and can't figure out how to survive emotionally or financially even if they wanted to leave. Contact your government representatives to create laws that address the problem of dangerous manipulative cults. Write to companies and organizations (like schools) and individuals who seem happy to affiliate themselves with Ilchi Lee or his programs to share your experience and concerns.

Just a few ideas, for whatever they are worth. I'm sure there are other things that I didn't think of.

I am sad to hear these terrible stories. Take action.

Good luck!

By tina on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 06:13 pm:

I am glad to see the above, I have called the attorney general office, I filed a complaint. Also I am spreading the word about what a dangerous deceptive cult dahn is, so my friends, family, and others are on the lookout for business displaying a pile og Dahn Yoga Brochures, when I see them I ask for the manager and explain what a bad organization Dahn is, usually the manager will throw them away. As stated I have all of my friends and family working all over to do this as well and spread the word. As I said many times the people who go the Dahn classes were some of the nicest people I have ever met and I don't want to see any others give dahn thousands of dollars. I would love to do all that I can to stop this cult. Let me know if you hear any new ideas I will be glad to get involved and help out. My advice is to go to stores and business in A Dahn Yoga neighborhood and you will see their brochures being displayed, tell the manager and tell them it would be wise to throw them away. Thanks

By Mouse on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 10:01 pm:

Hmm. Dunno if I can add anything to the discussion, but this all sounds pretty familiar. I did some flip-flopping between apologist and critic, and eventually ended up a permanent critic. In brief: I tried Dahnhak, liked the exercises, hated the used-car-salesman routine, but plunked down the $1500 or so anyway. After about six months of training, I finally went to Shim Sung (schedule conflicts), and the "true self" I discovered in the workshop had the same goals and dreams that I had always had. However, when I was asked about my true self and its ambitions, and I answered honestly, there was confusion and subtle disapproval from the masters and the more devoted students. Many of those students cheerfully parroted how good they felt, and how they were excited to go to Dahn Healer School (to the tune of $10k?)--it was strange how many of them repeated similar phrases. I had joked about the organization being somewhat cult-like, but this experience affirmed my suspicion that the program was supposed to... suggest things to me. I quit cold turkey with my brain (if not my dignity) intact. I think it was my skepticism going into the workshop that kept the "suggestions" from taking, cuz I had certainly caved to pressure tactics before that... Anyway, I chalk it up to an expensive lesson in self-trust.

For those of you who are really attracted to the energetic aspects of Dahnhak, "The Web That Has No Weaver" by Ted Kaptchuk might be interesting reading. It's an overview/introduction to the theories of traditional Chinese medicine, and anyone who actually read those packets we got at the workshops may recognize some of the major concepts. I had to read it for a college class, but it reinforced to me that what Mr. Lee's organization is doing is the equivalent of selling those free AOL CDs on eBay for $49.95 apiece. The only thing I got out of Dahnhak that I don't get elsewhere for free or cheap was the constant positive regard... and I've been much closer to my friends and family since I quit.

(On a barely-related topic, I notice that a physician-in-training named Mike posted here some time ago... right after Shim Sung, if he's who I think he is. Are you still around? And do you, by chance, remember a jackalope? If so, hi!

By Dorothea Lieberman on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 11:41 am:

Would you please let me know where there is a DAHN CENTER around Atlanta, Georgia, or any where in the state of Georgia, or South Carolina?
Please give me address, and phone number, and the time it is open. We'd love to attend their classes.

By Wow. on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 10:47 pm:

Wow. Have you read ANY of the above? You could save some gas just by putting your entire life savings in an envelope and mailing it to them.

By Anonymous on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 11:13 pm:

Can I ask why anyone would want to attend a dahn center? Or come to this site to ask for such information? Maybe they haven't read all the above accounts?
Could it be they have been told that dahn is compatiable with Christianity? This is a lie. The companies ancestor liberation ceremony, $30-40,000, which is suppose to free spirits of family members so they can go to heaven, squashes that idea. It harkens back to the worst days of Catholicism, buy indulgences and send souls to heaven. Are the history books were dahn got the idea to sell heaven as real estate?
If one reads the Bible, it says no one goes to heaven accept through Jesus Christ. It can't be granted by dahn grandmasters, despite their fervent wishes and the founder, Lee's blessing. Nor can this be changed by any friend of dahn, despite their saying they had conversations with the Almighty.
Anyone else wanting to join dahn in need of more information?
Is all this news to people who thought joining was just for exercise? Want exercise join a regular yoga center, check the yellow pages for location and phone number.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 11:09 am:

dorethea are you serious or that a joke? I hope you are joking! If you are not joking that is scary!

By Mouse on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 07:59 pm:

$40k for a memorial service? *rolls eyes* Wonder how much they charge for weddings. (What's your source for that figure?)

By Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 09:17 pm:

A few ex-members from different parts of the country told me. Although the prices differed slightly, they confirmed this goes on. Imagine being pressured to buy that service, that is suppose to be more than just a memorial service, its salavation and heaven.
Good question about the marriages? Do they charge the same price for Korean dahn masters marrying Americans?*Eyes spin*
Maybe its time to set up a website with pictures of all these activities?

By Mouse on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 10:49 pm:

*chuckle* To be honest, I was sorta joking about the marriages. I've never heard of such a ceremony. (But sometimes I wonder.)

A website? What for? There is (was?) a Dahn magazine that's distributed to the studios. It seemed to be articles and photos submitted by and written about the members. The one I read did include a story about a ceremony for a member's son who had committed suicide. I don't recall that the article discussed the religious aspect, or that one had to PAY for the service, but there were some photos. They weren't exactly incriminating.

*shrugs* I don't think Christianity or anybody else has a monopoly on life-passage ceremonies, but if an organization performs church-like services for a [crazy exorbitant pay-for-my-education] fee, should it be touting itself as an exercise club/martial-arts studio? I guess the Healer School is a little off of the exercise topic too, but at least one can argue that energy healing benefits the physical body. Soul liberations.... dunno.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 11:19 pm:

Lol, wink, I thought you might be joking. Yes, we both wonder what a Dahn wedding ceremony might be like. Any with info?
As to the picture site. was thinking of as a few examples having images of people doing the 18 hour hikes in Sedona. Or Lee driving his humvee with bodyguards. Maybe a composite shoot of Lee's wife on a golf course next to dahn masters living in a center.
Have to work out the details there.
Do you still have the magazine? Heard of one ceremony where a person died of cancer, and the friend watching got the feeling that dahn thought they could resurrect the dead. It wasn't incriminating, but it had an X-Files aura.
Agree with you on the life-passage ceremonies, an exercise group should be exactly that and not perform church type services for outrageous prices.
Soul liberation...hello Mulder...

By Anonymous on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 08:17 am:

These Dahn people are just plain nuts, I found a Dahn Yoga Brochure inside of my front door and I lock my screen door, they broke through my screen door lock to drop the brochure inside, they are scary! I see the brochures everywhere I go, I already lost $4000.00 to them!

By clockwork on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 08:21 am:

whatever person becomes a "Master" must be really bad off. I wonder how someone can allow themselved to be so obviously exploited. Example, Michael and Danielle G. Pathetic few they are, so brainwashed it is creepy to be around them. I am so angry I gave them my money, now I am in a terrible situation due to the effects of Dahn yoga in my life. I really want to take action, does anyone have any ideas or know someone else who is very passionate about this issue.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 02:27 pm:

Clockwork, you yourself are saying that you were exploited, so why is it so strange to see how others can be "so obviously exploited."

Can you be more specific about why you gave them money and why you now regret it? Why do you blame them?

I'm not an expert on this, but I think you can start to take action by writing to the head company that owns the Dahn Center that you went to telling them why you think you were misled or cheated out of your money. Also send a copy of this letter to the Center itself. Most states have a corporation database online that shows who owns what. If you can't find that information, you might try writing to Dahn World Co. c/o QUAN TAE KIM
2365 CORRAL RD
SEDONA, AZ 86336

They are listed in Arizona as a Korean company, and they seem to be the hub of all the companies and centers.

Keep a copy of anything you send and take notes on all conversations, but try to communicate just in writing so you have a record. Demand your money back and outline exactly why you think you should get it back, after having signed a contract. In other words, if you thought you were manipulated or lied to, spell that out. Send a copy of your letter to the attorney general consumer protection office, along with filling out a complaint form. Most of these AG offices have online forms.

Tell them you will have no choice but to take them to court (I think small claims court is the right place) if you don't get your money back by a certain specified date.

Then I would contact the Better Business Bureau to complain, and complain to all sources you can find.

Rick Ross's website would be a good one to at least get your complaint out there to the public.

I don't know how class action suits work, but maybe someone else could write in about that kind of thing.

Good luck.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 10:58 pm:

What is even more scarey is dahn's efforts to appear normal and healthy. They have partnered themselves with the Avon Foundation for the Avon 2005 walks for breast cancer. It appears Avon knows nothing of dahn's history, so this must be done by ex-members.
If anyone has been hurt by dahn, please write: info@avonfoundation.org, be short, courteous, to the point and tell them why they shouldn't be giving dahn the appearance of legitimacy. Avon is a smart company, once they know that dahn does more to harm women, the group won't be allowed back for 2006. It's all up to ex-members spreading the word.

By clockwork on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 04:20 am:

thank you for the sound advice. I will contact Avon, I will do all that I can do. In response to the question why do I feel mislead? I have to say I was in a very vulnerable state when I joined, I trusted my master and she told me I had trouble with "holding" meaning my troubles stemmed from holding in my emotions, she said so let everything go even your money, "give it to us, we are your medicine." I lost many friends during this time of my life and I feel I was lied to. I realized this within three months of being in Dahn. Some of these masters go the whole way and spend years of their lives in this organization, that is why I feel my situation is different, I only soent three months and realized something is very wrong. When I am told the world will end in 2030 and Dahn Members will be the only ones to survive, thats when I know something is wrong. When I see members losing families over wanting to become a master I worry also, it is quite obvious to me. NO ENLIGHTENMENT IS THIS EXPENSIVE!

By Anonymous on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 08:21 pm:

Here's the website for the Arizona attorney general's office where you can find an online form to complain. Arizona is the homestate of Ilchi Lee and his "non-profit" organizations, and Dahn World Co. is registered in that state too.

http://www.ag.state.az.us/consumer/complaint_instructions_eng.html

You should also complain in the state where you live, where you went to a Dahn Center, and don't forget about your local police detective.

If you are afraid, you can ask the AG if your complaint can be anonymous, but I heard that anonymous complaints carry much less weight. Or, ask for confidentiality, at least until other complaints are logged, enough for the AG to file charges. The law takes a "caveat emptor" position (let the buyer beware), but, if you all can show how you were manipulated or cheated, then your complaint is stronger.

By the way, Lexia Learning Systems also is using Ilchi Lee's programs now -- Brain Respiration for their camps.

Also, if anyone thinks Ilchi Lee's "Healing Society" organization is a non-profit organization, guess again. "Healing Society, Inc." is a Nevada registered for-profit business (registered in Arizona too). Their website end in .org, which makes it look like a non-profit. "Ilchi Academy" is a tradename owned by the business Healing Society, so it is also a business. The healing society and ilchi academy url domain name is registered to Seung Heun Lee (Ilchi Lee) with the address "Dahnworld Co." in Korea.

Good luck!
Suziecue

By clockwork on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 06:08 am:

Thank you Suziecue for the advice, it is very helpful and smart. I will keep all up to date as to what is going on.

By joyce on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 06:26 am:

All of you need to take a honest look at yourself. First of all....are some of you so insecure that you can blame an organization for 'taking' your money? You were there because there was 'something' that you were looking for. If you knew all the answers, you wouldn't be looking for opportunities to 'improve' yourself. Dahn is a vehicle to learn how to live a happy, peaceful, healthy and productive life. There are many ways to acheive a peaceful and enlightened state. A strong person would be one who is open to possibilities. Also-to those of you that had issue with Dahn having businesses: EVERY organization needs money to survive. Every organization needs money to promote its cause. It is REALITY. It's funny that we never hear about anyone having 'issues' with solicitations to donate 20% of your income to various groups: Cristianity, Judiasm, Greenpeace, the Cancer Society, Choc hospital......
Dahn helps you grow yourself. I think people need to learn what they can to better themselves. Choose to give money or not give money. You can still learn and grow. If you are so scared that you can be brainwashed then how much control do you have of your brain?

By Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 10:09 am:

Anyone can be manipulated, tricked, persuaded, cheated, fooled,and even controlled to varying degrees. You are missing what people are trying to tell you here. Yes, they are blaming the organization for taking their money, but only because they felt it was taken under false and manipulative pretenses, Joyce. That's not legal or ethical. With all your talk of peace and personal growth, you, Joyce (and many others) choose to blame the victims (much like victims of domestic and child abuse have often been blamed).

How did Dahn help Julia Siverls to grow? She's dead. You must know all about that, since you defend Dahn so easily. Have others died too or suffered serious injury? What clever methods are being used to attempt to manipulate and silence insiders?

Churches and the other organization you mentioned are non-profit organizations; donations are tax-deductible (a benefit to donors) and must go toward their overall or some specified charitable mission. "Profits" go back into the charity. Profits may not go into the leaders' own pockets and may not be passed on to or inherited by the leaders' heirs. If a n.p. church folds, the profits must go to another charity. If a n.p. church is audited by the IRS, the onus is on the church to prove that donations and profits are not going into any insiders' pockets.

On the other hand, donations and fees to a private business, like Dahn World Co. and their Dahn Centers, are not tax-deductible to donors, do not legally have to fullfil any charitable mission, and may legally fill the owners' pockets as deeply as they wish. The money donated may legally be used for any private purpose (unless specified as a contribution to a particular charitable cause) and profits are inherited or passed on to the owners' personal heirs.

Businesses, in the USA at least, must pay minimum wage and overtime (unless an exempt occupation), and they generally are not allowed to use volunteer workers (or they would all do this). Dahn doesn't follow these laws. Dahn Centers use volunteers and don't pay employees overtime. These devoted "masters" believe they are working toward world peace. Joyce, can you please tell us what the masters' weekly spiritual "visions" consist of, since you defend them so strongly? Here's a clue: $$$$$

Dahn World Co. is an international "trade" corporation. It is a profit-making business, not a charity or a religious organization. They are much more like MacDonalds than like the Cancer Society, only they sell peaceful and loving hamburgers on a spritual bun. Dahn World Co. registered one of their many businesses, "Elmhurst, Inc," as a "bank/finance" business before they changed it to "yoga/meditation" business -- how's that for a telling contrast!

Some Dahn masters are reading this message right now, struggling inside of themselves with whether or not to come forward with their own stories. This board offers anonymous public postings. Just tell the truth and only the truth and give the facts. People like Joyce need to hear the facts from the inside out.

Suziecue

By clockwork on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 11:00 am:

Joyce,
you do not make sense go back to Dahn. It sounds like Dahnhak was organized for people like you. I do take full blame and I know I will never see my money again but I was in a vulnerable state, I trusted these people. I feel they pretended to care for my "bettering" myself just so I would spend thousands of dollars. Telling me stupid nonsense Like I have blockages, come on!

By clockwork on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 11:03 am:

Thank you Suziecue, i am not as articulate as you are.

By HealerNoMore on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 12:28 pm:

I have read many posts regarding Dahn. It amazes me how some people can still defend the dahn practice. It is obvious that Lee is out to get rich and promote himself as some kind of hero. He is not a hero of any kind . He is however a Fraud. Why would an organization which promotes enlightenment also promote green card marriages? I wish someone would be able to follow his money trail and see how many Hummers, Mercedes and other extavagant items he owns. He is the only one allowed to live a rich lifestyle all of his masters are just guest workers until he tires of them or he goes to jail-Again. Someone please research why he was really in jail while in Korea. This was about 15-20 years ago. He has the audacity to celebrate this day as the day heaven was darkened. Get real Lee.

By Reciprocity on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 07:08 pm:

If any of Dahn's criminal vampires are reading this, they should remember that what comes around really does go around. Jesus said: "As you do unto the least of these, you do unto me."

By Anonymous on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 12:39 am:

Now, Joyce, do be honest yourself How much information does dahn tell people upfront when they join? There are so many problems that could be avoided, if only dahn would be honest from the start.
Can we work together on promoting honesty? Ex-members are not as much concerned with the money, it's about feeling pressured and manipulated . These good people wouldn't have joined, if dahn had been open their first week about everything.
Are you willing to help people by pushing for full disclosure of all of dahn's business activities? Lee's annual salary and benefits? Setting up of an impartial body to settle all dahn complaints?
Would you also be willing to tie this to a posted, guaranteed enforced code of ethics drawn from the Christo-Judeo tradition? A money back guarantee, if not completely satisfied after 90 days, a member gets their money back?
Or do you, as a person feel this is unnecessary? Everything is fine in Dahnworld or is it? You felt you needed to take the time to read what was here. Are you having doubts?
Joyce, if your willing to be honest with how you live and work in dahn. we'll understand your position better. Also, should you see problems in dahn, others here can help you. Give us that chance

By Anonymous on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 03:29 pm:

joyce,

you sound like you are spewing venom. I though you believed in peace as dahn teaches, you don't sound to peaceful to me you sound angry and bitter are you being manipualted too?

By Reciprocity on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 05:58 pm:

"If you are so scared that you can be brainwashed then how much control do you have of your brain?" - Joyce

I'm not "scared" and I am in control of my life, which is why I don't belong to a manipulative mercenary cult. For you to imply that anyone who disagrees with you is "scared" is a typical cult manipulation, an attempt to somehow psychologically weaken the opponent's positioning. Or mud-slinging, as I like to call it. An unworthy strategy at the very least.

You are perfectly free to continue to pay for your cult leaders' extravagant luxuries, of course, I wish you well.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 10:52 am:

I'm sure there are some people out there in internet-land who are looking for the facts behind the Dahn empire. It would help if people who post here would go into more detail about their experiences or those of a close friend.

And it's one thing to repeat or respond to what other people are saying, so if you yourself heard something or experienced something directly, please say so in your post. It takes on another level of importance if first (or even second) hand information.

On "Healernomore's" post, above, I wonder if it is just hearsay (rumor) that Ilchi Lee was in jail 15-20 years ago and that he actually "celebrates" it as the day heaven was darkened? How do you know all this? Many innocent people have gone to jail for all the wrong reasons, so just going to jail is not evidence of any wrong-doing.

There's a good amount of sharing going on here, and I think it's great! Thank you to the owners of this web page! I want to also suggest that we put a name or at least a pseudonym on our posts that are anonymous, like I'm about to do, so we don't get confused about who is saying what and can reply to each other.

Thanks, all, for posting your thoughts here, and that includes those who are devoted to Dahn. You may well become a future furious follower if you keep seeking the truth -- no doubt.

Suziecue

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 09:54 pm:

Suziecue,

I read about his visit to jail on their own computer. The masters have a website that only they have access to. I happened to be in the right place at the right time. I believe it was authored by Lee himself. It was something to do with former masters who turned against him. This action only made him stronger as the organization has grown immensely since then. The masters are not allowed to let anyone see the content of the masters website. I got lucky. This took place just over a year ago. I think the anniversary is coming soon.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 10:50 pm:

Thanks for the information, HealerNoMore. You are still a healer, by sharing your warnings, just maybe not a "Dahn" healer.

I know that coming out against a cult leader can sometimes make them stronger. Strange phenomenon. Maybe people assume unfair persecution, which they relate to as martyrdom of a spiritual leader, rather than realizing that the leader might actually be guilty and not be worthy of blind devotion.

Too bad the message from Lee didn't say what the charges were. And I still don't understand why it's something for him to brag about, and why he would "celebrate" a dark day in heaven. Am I trying to make sense out of something that doesn't make any sense?

Suziecue

By Still a Healer on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 07:09 am:

I am a Dahn Healer, currently not active in the organization. My life has been blessed by all I have experienced and learned through my years of active participation. There are shreds of truth in all of the posts. In my opinion Dahn organization or Dr. Ilchi Lee are not as bad as the reports. Nor is the organization as pure, gentle or upfront in all of their dealings.

All money collected is ploughed back in to growing the centers and creating more healers. They believe in the urgency with which this must be accomplished. While I agree with their mission, this urgency is where we disagree and why I am not active anymore.

They need to change the public perception of being only there to collect money for the benefit of Dr. Ilchi Lee. It is my impression that he has personally donated all of his wealth to the growth of healing centers.

It would be difficult to find a person who attended classes or Healer School who did not find long term benefits.

By HealerNo More on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 12:40 pm:

I very much enjoyed taking classes as well as teaching them. I was fulfilled in the fact I could help so many people through the exercises. I of course went as far as possible with the organization and I began to see it as a money making business. People were turned away or ignored if it was discovered they would be unable to pay for the more expensive courses. This is not the way to heal society! I was witness to a woman being ignored after she turned up at the center and she had an incurable disease. They wanted no part of her. I am sure the participation in classes would have done alot to help her spirit. I can't imagine how bad she felt to be rejected. I guess only the healthy and the rich can be healed. I met a woman at an open house who was turned away and later went to Falun Gong. They accepted her.

I feel sorry for people who come to these places to be helped only to be turned away or be taken advantage of because of their weakness. The Dahn organization preys on peoples' weakness. This is how they make so much money. Why do they have such a high turnover rate of students. I have asked this question and was told the people were not ready to be healed or they have bad energy. Many students have asked me why they push so hard and I had to make something up because I wasn't sure. I am now. The truth is they are out to make money for master Lee and push people to spend money they cannot afford. He wants to be seen as the savior of the world. If he really wants to help he should stop buying up property in Sedona and sell some of his homes, as well as his expensive cars and his wifes Mercedes Benz. This would go along way in feeding a lot of poor people. Oh, I forgot they don't deserve to be healed since they have no money.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 09:39 pm:

StillAHealer said: "It is my impression that he has personally donated all of his wealth to the growth of healing centers."

StillAHealer, aren't you saying here that Lee has personally donated all of his wealth to the growth of his own exercise businesses? Some people would call the "reinvesting," not donating.

Suziecue

By Andrew Nevis on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 10:30 pm:

The below is a reposting of an archived freewebpage done by an ex-member.
Dahn Hak is a Cult!
Say NO to brainwashing...er, sorry Brain Respiration
Some of the names they go by:
Dahn Hak
Arabian Oasis
Vortex Healing Park
Holistic Fitness Center
BR Consulting
Tao Aerobics
Healing Society
New Humans
Dahn Yoga

If you are thinking about joining this organization you should read this information first: www.rickross.com search engine Dahn Tao Institute. Many thanks to the RIck Ross Institute for publishing these letters.

These are the Real stories of ex-dahn members that the Dahn Hal "masters/servants" and Lee don't want you to know about.

Dahn Hak is REALLY about: Brainwashing and the unconditional worship and transfer of financial wealth to Dr.(?) Ilchi Lee...and of course a whole bunch of souls to go with it.

More information:

CultNews.com: Untimely death at Dahn Hak Retreat
Koreabridge Forums

Want to know the truth...the real truth? How about we tell the TRUTH here. Here is how it works.
1. Their centers get you in by advertising "Yoga" or "TaiChi" which is in vouge right now.
2. This smiley person greets, starts the pitch, subtle at first, then offers you a free "healing" or other.
3. You take the healing and, guess what, you are a wreck "you're all blocked">Only they can fix you up. Oh...the wise and mystical Dr.Lee and his minions speech comes spewing forth.
4. Now comes the high pressure sales pitch. Time to ante up.
5. You ask some questions like: "What is your organization about etc" and "tell me again why I need to start with a lifetime membership?"
6. "Oh Dr.Lee...(Dreamy far away look) blah blah blah.
7. They seem harmless so you go for the first exercises. Hey, come to think of it, that instructor didn't answer any of my questions.
8. Lots of stretching and TaiChi type stuff along with the energy clapping etc etc to start..you actually start feeling really good.
9. Gee...I must really like this because now I have to go 5 days a week. It's even more important than my family or socializing.
10. Now it's seminar time. Didn't you know? To get enlightened you need to whip out your check book. $500 or so and away you go to "Ready for awakening". Pssst "DOn't tell anyone about it...it's a secret...not even your partner...this is just for you."
11.Now this is where you find out some of the truth. After wearing you out for a few hours the "Save the world and Dr.Lee is Jesus Christ reincarnated" speedh comes out. Must have missed that one on CNN.
12. This is the point where a lot of people open their eyes and walk away. However, to the other "Members" who sit their heads knodding up and down to all that bs, this is just the beginning. They make outrageous claims about self-healing afflictions and diseases. Hmmm, how come they were wearing glasses?
13. Next seminar...you are another step closer to attaining your promised "Enlightenment"...check book please.
14. Initial awakening. This is a weird one. "Don't tell anyone about what happens...no matter what...not even your partner." Hours of screaming and telling complete strangers...and the "masters" everything about you including your deep darkest fears and secrets. Expect to come back an emotional wreck and spend the next week in complete emotional chaos. It's like an induced nervous breakdown.
15. You ask them what is happening to you and they tell you it's normal...you are becoming enlightened! All those toxins...you know.
16. You go back and do the routines, you have the tea with the master and watch his eyeballs roll into the back of his head. No tea for me!
17. You are ready for master healer training. You must do 1000 bows. You know bowing...paying homeage too. After your knee legements are destroyed you can yourself on the back for that little stunt of self-humiliation.
18. Guaranteed enlightenment and the ability to perform miracles will cost you $10,000 (Ten Thousand). Off to Sedona, Arizona you go where you will find all the Non-Koreans segregated from the surrounding community...oh did I forget to mention that the "masters" are all Korean and one in particular left his entire family and gave all his money to Lee. (Lee poor my ass, ha, 260 acres in Yavapai alone)
19. At Sedona, you feel you are dying, literally..."we fix for $500 we give you healing........"
20. Another trip to Sedona, Arizona. You come back in a state of Psychosis. At this point you are very likely theirs and will do anything for them including leaving your family. Nothing else matters but the "Center" and you cannot seem to function without them.
21. You are now like stone: No emotion, no feeling, no more communication with your loved ones, you get in trouble if you talk to other members. You cry and cry. You hear their voices in your head (telepathy or didn't you know), you hallucinate. You never smile anymore.
22. If you are lucky you have someone who will pull you out.

That is just the tip of the iceberg. Lee is a fraud whose mindless followers worship him as Jesus Christ reincarnated. His organization makes incredulous promises for money among other things. What they DO do is erase all individuality and free thought from unsuspecting people and of course "Enlighten" your bank account.

By laila on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 11:25 pm:

I am suffering a major "disconnect" after the following experience with Dahnhak,(much abridged account). I dove into DH feet first about a year and-a-half ago, taking part in many many programs for self-healing, including Shim Sung, YEHA (young adults'branch of DH), tons of special training, and finally, Healers' School this past January. I am more than 20,000 dollars in debt for all of this. Fine - I transformed myself physically, emotionally and spiritually through this process. Anyone who has known me a long time is quite amazed at the results, as am I. I was so much in love with DH and the people I met there, including members, masters, and the staff at Mago Garden, that I was on my way this June to Korea for a six-month training program, with the plan of going on to Masters training sometime in 2006. I had already arranged a leave-of-absence from my wonderful and hard-earned job in the performing arts. Then, in March, my married-with-wife-and-two-kids-in-Korea Head Master asked me to marry him, out of the blue, with no inkling, ever, of any romantic interest toward me in the past. Apparently,at first, he had no intention of actually divorcing his Korean wife, but later said that a lawyer told him he must do so. He was panicking because all of his legal documents had expired, and he didn't want to go back to Korea, and the same lawyer told him that only marriage to an American would do. If he had been honest and said up-front that he just wanted a green-card marriage it would have at least been...well...honest. But he did and said all kinds of seductive things, like asking me if I wanted a baby, telling me that we would live together when I came back from Korea (actually I know of no Dahn Master who is allowed to live with his or her spouse), saying he wanted a "real marriage", even though he is planning to bring his wife and kids here to the US! He said the the marriage would be a secret from everyone, especially the other members, as they would tend to judge! On top of this, he declared his eternal love for me and said that we would have a "spiritual marriage", meaning that our souls would be together forever. As far as I could ascertain, on the physical level this marriage would consist only of my having unlimited access to him by phone or special masters' E-mail. Sex would not enter the equation, as he is a Dahn Master and he is "supposed to be overcoming". I was confused as to how the 'real marriage" and baby were to materialize without sex, but it turned out this was just the bait, to get me to do his bidding. This was a man I admired and loved as my spiritual guide and teacher, and suddenly he was attempting to use me without the slightest regard for my feelings! If I were a weaker person I would probably be suicidal by now. As it is, I have stayed away from DH for six weeks now, and am grieving the loss of what I thought was a community for life. They hide the more sinister aspects of the organization from the average members. I was told by a former master that once inside, it is competitive, controlling and abusive. I guess I should be grateful for this clear warning before I got in too deeply to see my way out. I have been trying to figure out what Grand Master Lee's true agenda is. I'm pretty sure that the Dahn Masters are told that a certain number of people have to be enlightened in order for the Earth or humanity ,or both ,to be saved - that is why they must give every waking hour to Dahn, with no vacations and no time to see their families, including children. I also think that they are expecting cataclysmic climate changes, and have been told that the Master's uniform would protect them and their families. They have put in a farm at Mago garden and are busy building more housing there. I was told that all of the Dahn masters would someday live there and at other places like it. It will probably be hard for some to understand the feeling of loss and disillusionment I feel. Looking back on my year in Dahnhak, I have only wonderful memories and an abundance of good health and happy feelings which, fortunately, I am able to access every day by using some of the methods on my own. But, as a friend of mine put it, "everything that has a front has a back". Due to his premature trust in me, my Head Master helped me to see the back of Dahnhak, and turned me into an outsider before I became an insider. If you are a new member reading this, know that I too, read some of these E-mails when I first joined Dahnhak, and felt sorry for these poor people who just "didn't get it." My advice is, get the benefits of DH if you want, but keep your eyes open about the money and the emotional manipulation. All of the 'warm,fuzzy' things are for members. Once you are in the fold, you are open game for the person higher up in the organization. If they have been training longer than you, they are automatically considered to be spiritually more advanced. If you can accept this hierarchy and follow obediently, then perhaps it's the path for you. I, personally, do not even know how a human being can determine the state of another's soul, and I regard the homeless person on the street to be of equal worth to Grand Master Lee with his yellow Hum-V and huge entourage. I also hope and pray that all of us survive any upcoming Earth changes, and I do not intend to isolate myself from other human beings under some delusion of being chosen or special. I'm happy to be going back to my job with flawed, but kind people, who at least have the decency to say what they really want from you, be it sex, marriage, or a green-card! Dahn Masters have their own system of ethics, which does not match mine.

By HealerNoMore on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 01:05 am:

Laila,

I am sorry you experienced such a bad situation. I have experienced the same, except I was there longer and got to see a lot more than you did. I knew of 5 green card marriages. They were all spiritual. This is the tip of the iceberg regarding Dahn tactics. If more people came forward the organization would not be able to prey on unsuspecting people. They will try to separate you from family. It was tried with me and then I knew for sure they were up to no good. Why would any normal person ask you to give up your family who was with you alot longer than Dahn has been around. They prey on your vulnerabilities and try to manipulate you with information you have shared with them in the Shim sungs and other training programs. I had it happen to me and I have seen it happen to other people as well. You are very lucky you got out. They will clean out your life savings and you will be dependant on them. I wonder how many American masters can claim financial independance with the salary they are paid. I know they were being paid about $22,000 per year for about 100 hours per week with no overtime and no medical or other benefits. If you were sick you had to heal yourself. You also had to live in their commune house. I was told the masters in Korea have to have credit cards issued by Dahn. This creates even more dependance on them. I have seen some masters so competetive with one another it actually frightened me. Watch how they behave and you will get your own enlightenment. They can only hide so much from you. Keep watching.

He has a yellow Humvee. I wonder if he purchased any more horses. He had four the last I heard. Any potential future members should guard their wallets if they decide to join this organization. The car needs gas and the horses need food. The masters will love bomb you and make you believe you are loved. I came to believe they have very little regard for members. The members are tools to be used and tossed aside when the well runs dry.

By clockwork on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 05:03 am:

Andrew what a great description of Dahnhak. Not only was it so true but it was also quite amusing, I think that people who are wondering about Dahnhak will find your account very useful.
Laila, Congrats for rising above the manipulation of Dahn. It does reel you in, you feel like you are really working for the good of yourself and others. But in reality you are just being used. I am happy for you Laila, use what you got out of Dahn that was helpful to you, but now you are free from their hold, good luck. We need more people like Laila, Andrew, Suziecue, and HealerNOMore to inform people of what is really going on. The people I met that attended classes at Dahn were some of the nicest people I have ever met. I hate to see the same happen to so many others. I will do anything I can to inform others and warn them before they get to involved. If I come up with any new ideas I will be sure to let all of you know. You are all very helpful.

By Mouse on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 09:32 pm:

I detect a theme here...

"I am more than 20,000 dollars in debt for all of this. Fine - I transformed myself physically, emotionally and spiritually through this process."

"Lots of stretching and TaiChi type stuff along with the energy clapping etc etc to start..you actually start feeling really good."

"However, despite there being obvious cult activities that you can get sucked into in Dahn Yoga, I have had miraculous results physically since I started doing the exercises."

And my own thought on it-- "Loved the exercise, hated the used-car salesman tactics."

...and so I wonder if it's possible to have Dahnhak without Dahn. Churches hive off or break up all the time (albeit with varying levels of rancor and accusations of heresy), so it doesn't seem that odd to me for some disillusioned masters to start up their own interpretation of Dahnhak, i.e. one that doesn't worship the almighty Dollar. The legal argument that I see to the idea is that Dahnhak is a corporation (or nine hundred mini-corporations, or whatever) on paper, not a church. So I wonder how intellectual-property laws would apply to an exercise form... could one be sued for practicing Dahnhak without a license?

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 05:44 pm:

They have trademarked so many names associated with their programs that anyone would be hard pressed to find a name offers something similar but that doesn't violate their copyrights. You can search for their tradenames on the www.uspto.gov site, search on BR Consulting and Seung Heun Lee, to start.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 06:20 pm:

What if one called it Dahn style Yoga? We are on to something here.
Count me in!!

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 06:58 pm:

They'd come after you, I'm sure. Dahn is trademarked. They themselves show little regard for copyrighted/patented material (see rickross article about Alison Bourne's lawsuit), but bet you'd hear from Dahn immediately if you even came close to taking one of their names or material or logos. There are plenty of programs available that change people's lives through exercise and meditation. Scarcity is a myth that keeps people coming back.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 09:28 pm:

RE Andrew
I hit #22 I was in it beyond deep until someone from the outside pulled me out. It was a struggle. One day I just left
It was an interesting time. The outside world was very diiferent.
#23 is when you leave and you have thoughts of going back, and this keeps churning in your mind sometimes.
Result. I am succesful now and doing exactly what I wanted to do. More so, that outsider aren't so bad. I began to fly when I turned the energy to my own purpose and talents. I began to feel it was ok to help yourself grow rather then just promote an organization.

By clockwork on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 04:40 am:

Congrats for you. I knew a guy named Ben that joined Dahn after me and he was a sweetheart. But Dahn sucked him in so fast within two months he was off to Sedona to pay 10,000.00 for Healer School. I wonder if heis still involved or if he got out. I truly pray for these people, they are wonderfule innocent people just trying to find their way and Dahn leads you down the wrong road.

By Anonymous on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 10:00 am:

I'm wondering about the Korean masters who ask other members to marry them for green card purposes, are they acting on their own because they don't want to leave the US or are they directly ordered or pressured or persuased by Dahn management?

I'm sure the officers of Dahn at least know this is going on -- how could they not? -- so in my mind, they are responsible.

Laila, and others, thanks for the greatly detailed sharing. Do tell more as you feel ready; I'm sure you're helping other people, even if some don't know it yet.

I wouldn't worry about the world coming to an end, at least not the way Ilchi Lee would have you believe it. It's typical human engineering from Cult 101 -- create a sense of urgency, where only one person (or group or method or device) holds the key to saving the world/planet/universe from complete destruction.

Suziecue

By Still a Healer on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 10:29 am:

You can rest assured they did not come up with this on their own. I had assumed that Green Card Marriages were very well investigated by the Immigration service. People must live together like man and wife. Hence he said they would live together and maybe have a baby.
If this is true, and I have no reason to disbelieve the writer; Shame, Shame Shame.

By Anonymous on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 01:28 pm:

Here's the number to call if you have firsthand knowledge of phony green card marriages and other immigration violations. You can be anonymous, and they don't want just hearsay.
1-866-DHS-2ICE

By Reciprocity on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 01:45 pm:

"holds the key to saving the world/planet/universe from complete destruction."

This unfair cesspool of a world lasting is exactly what the Dahn slavemasters are relying on. If this world ever does end and we all have to account for our actions to the teachers on the other side, they'll have a LOT of 'splainin' to do, Lucy.

By Anonymous on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 01:50 pm:

Reading about fraudulent green card marriages, an expert said: "In 1986, Congress passed a law that makes “marriage fraud” a permanent bar to immigrant status." That means there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do to get it back, not a future marriage or children with an American, not anything.

Sounds like the Immigration authorities carefully interview and investigate each applicant to see if the marriage is legit. How are these Dahn green card marriages actually getting approved? How many cases are we talking about here? If this is routine, how have they gotten away with it so well?

The only way anything can be done about it (as far as I know) is if people report other people, and I bet most insiders don't want to feel responsible for their beloved "master" getting deported -- forever.
Suziecue

By Anonymous on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 02:06 pm:

Verrrry interesting: Michael P. McCann, whose name shows up often as an agent or a director or an officer when you look up Dahn's organizations and businesses, specializes in Business Law,
Corporate Counsel, and Immigration Law.

This must mean that they have their legal asses, oops, I meant assets, covered, right?

By Mouse on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 05:11 pm:

*shrugs* Who is it that's saying he specializes in X, Y and Z? If I were a corporate lawyer for a company that employed immigrants and engaged in legally fuzzy enterprises, I would probably style myself as an expert in business/corporate law and immigration law, too. (Recall the other instances of personality cult/self-inflation observed in this organization...) If it were McCann *and associates*, I might take that seriously, but that seems like a heavy resume for one guy. Then again, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm just barfing my opinion on this one.

So yeah, they get legal advice, but I wouldn't put him on the pedestal with Geragos or Cochran based on that info alone.

By an irrelevant remark from Mouse on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 05:13 pm:

(Hey, cool, this board keeps you from accidentally double-posting! There are other boards out there that really need that feature.)

By Mouse -- one last thought on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 05:22 pm:

And to respond to one of the Anonymi, re: green card marriages. You got me thinking, not just about Dahn issues, but about immigration and marriage in general. How DOES somebody prove that a relationship is "legit"? Cohabiting, or having detailed plans to do so, might be convincing... but how do you prove to a total stranger that you love and/or are committed to a person? Is it different for people who are from cultures where arranged or convenience marriages are acceptable, and love isn't even in the equation? Just curious.

By Still a healer. on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 07:43 pm:

I have heard that the investigator takes each person into a room and asks very personal questions about their private life. If they do not answer the questions in the same manner; that is a red flag. It seems to me in arranged marriages they would be able to answer the questions in a truthful manner. Only if the participants were pretending to be in a relationship would they have to worry about the results. The investigator does not care if they love each other or not. They are only interested in the reason for the marriage. (just thinking out loud)
The Truth Really Does Set one Free!!!

By hopeful on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 10:16 pm:

I love DahnHak!! I really do! I also dont mind in the slightest what is being said here either. I can see it from your points of view but Dahn has a vision and their vision has a sense of urgency with it. Based on what I have seen the centers are all beautiful state of the art facilities and it takes a great deal of money to operate them. It is my opinion that all monies is being spent right back into growing and opening more centers. They are really good at creating a healing environment within their centers so the practioners can feel comfortable as they grow.
In my center I have never witnessed or personally experienced any high pressure sale tactics to receive more money. Yes I did go to Healer School and yes even the word cult flashed thru my mind but then I realized what isnt a cult? Think of any major religions, armed forces, even the companies you work for all use "tactics." Brainwashing...what is it? We are all brainwashed think about it. Most organizations believe they are following a great path or way and they would love for others to see things their way too, either you accept it or you don't. If you do, good go that way, if you don't then move on. There are many paths all leading to the one destination, in fact there is nothing but the one and for us to beieve we are seperate that is the biggest "sin" if there is such a thing.
My feeling is, I have never met more pure, strong, happy, supportive, helpful people in my life, and yes I have a wonderful family. Good childhood, great family, am married, I have children. There have been obstacles for sure. My wife has not always been supportive (she isn't a member) or understanding and I am not surprised. I have changed and grown tremendously through these classes and special trainings. As with any serious spiritual training much has to be given up. Its not that you have to but as you grow you realize how many attachements we have accumulated over the years and in order to really "go deep" sometimes IF YOU CHOOSE you must let go of your attachements. Look, no one ever says, "Hmmm, I think i will become a priest that looks like a good way to make money for myself!" Most people feel called to do it or were funnelled through an upbringing and education to come to that decision (ie brainwashing perhaps??). Most of these people have the best intentions entering the priesthood, because they believe in something with all their hearts and they also believe they will help the world. I believe the same is true for most of the masters in dahn. I dont say all because I am realistic too and realize that there may be a few bad apples. As for the hummers and houses, well I dont mean to harp on any one organized religion but there are many priests who live in very lavish settings and there are some with much meager accomodations.
I believe the enlightenment Ilchi Lee speaks of and has reached is very true is very subtle. In other words there is no huge grandiose "thing" that happens it just is a subtle but very profound sfift in overall conciousness, although the moment this occurs is quite profound. I too have reached a level of enlightenment not just as a result of dahn but from a lifetime of practice and searching. This man is just trying to convey and share enlightenment through a means which is flawed and imperfect, business. Unforunately, this is the only way which his vision can be realized in the amount of time he has set for himself.
As crazy as it may sound to some I have decided to pursue being a master in training because i believe this to be some of the most important work on the planet. I believe if everyone were to experience the oneness and ultimate connection we all truly have then the world will change and the realization of peace on this earth will be established. Its not as if dahn can screw up the world anymore than it already is.
I am aware of the sacrifices that may be necessary for me to pursue this way of life and it may not after all be for me in the end but I have to try. I'd hate to look back ony life and say if only. I'd hate to not pursue something as meaningful as this just because a few people feel it is a bunch of bologna.
I truly wish peace and love in the truest sense for all of you.

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 09:51 am:

Wow, Hopeful you are a nut. Why are you even talking about priests you can't compare a looney Dahn master to a priest. Don't you know enlightenment is free, it does not cost $10,000-$20,000. Dahn does not give any of its money to charitys of organizations that help the environment, think rationally, WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO MAKE THIS PLANET HEALTHY? NOTHING. Dahn just looooves people like you. Thanks to you, you will continue the trend of Dahn forcefully taking money from people who are not sure what the heck is going on, preists don't do this, sure they pass around the basket and mail envelopes to your home, but they don't call you over and over and over and over and over trying to get you to "LET GO" of your money and give your credit card number over the phone so they can charge $2000 for a pointless "healing session" where they do nothing but bang on your body and cause bruising. I realize I am not a good speller, hahaha

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 10:49 am:

Maybe your wife's concerns are valid. It would be interesting to hear what she would say to us. Maybe she's trying to tell you something, like some ex-members on this board are trying to do. How much of your financial resources and time with your wife and children have you "chosen" to give to Dahn? Or are your family time and your bank account some of the unhealthy "attachments" that you've given up.

The argument that YOU personally haven't seen or experienced exploitive practices is no longer true, unless you are telling people here and on other boards that they are lying. You see it right here on this board -- the death of a master trainee, greencard marriages, feeling manipulated to give all material resources to Lee's businesses while Ilchi Lee and company secretly become wealthy, concerned families and friends, etc. You don't have to see everything with your own eyes to believe it, do you? As one with all, don't you feel any empathy for them and especially for the family of the poor woman who died on one of their hikes?

Without getting sidetracked into comparing wrongs with wrongs to try to come up with a right (that never works), which wouldn't excuse a single thing that Dahn is doing anyway, I want to point out that if there are priests getting personally wealthy on the donations and impoverishment of others like Dahn is, they are wrong too. Ethics and the law would not be on the church's side if they did that. Most churches are organized as non-profits. Dahn is organized and run as a FOR profit business. Listen carefully: a FOR PROFIT business. Ilchi Lee says that laughing is good for you, well, they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Are Dahn's properties owned by their non-profit religious arms, like their Tao Fellowship? No it is not. Much of it is owned by Seung Heun Lee and by their several PRIVATE FOR PROFIT BUSINESSES. Take your head out of the sand and look for yourself. (Sorry, lost my temper.)

There IS urgency here, the urgency to use our critical thinking skills. Stop greed and exploitation by ambitious experts in brain engineering -- now. Raise your standards a bit, please, on what constitutes enlightened beings. Should enlightenment really be a "subtle" trait in a leader? Shouldn't the leader exemplify the very qualities that he asks of his most devote followers? Do you see Ilchi Lee forgoing attachments to material wealth? Listen carefully: FOR PROFIT businesses.

No one is perfect and no one is asking for perfection of Ilchi Lee or his business partners. But how about a little bit of transparency and honesty in exchange for all the devotion and money you have given them, to start?

How much have you "chosen" to pay Bell Rock Development Corporation or BR Consulting or Han Noory, etc. to supposedly just build new Dahn Centers?

Why don't Ilchi Lee and his partners convert their BR and BCC Consulting businesses and Dahn World, Inc, etc. to non-profit organization so that profits are at least not legally allowed to inure to them and their personal heirs? They can still use the money to build new centers. They just can't (legally) pocket the profits for themselves.

If you want to compare, can you just imagine if Jesus Christ had started the JC Consulting company 2000 years ago and every Christian church or prayer group had to pay a consulting and franchise fee to him and his heirs personally?

I wouldn't conclude that Dahn must be okay in making their business owners rich just because other churches show wealth. If you want to compare Dahn's treatment of their inner core community of Korean and American masters to the military, go right ahead. That comparison drives a point home -- control.

I understand that you are extremely emotionally and socially invested in the world of Dahn (or should I say Dahn World, Inc.) and it would be very difficult for you to even question their practices. You can see that kind of pain in others on this board who broke away.
So, I do apologize for sounding so harsh. I just see no discernment coming from your post, just Dahn rhetoric and blind devotion and excuses.

SuzieCue

By Still a Healer on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 12:19 pm:

To Laila;
I forgot to mention how helpful having the support of ex Dahn members can be to help sort out your feelings of loss.
If you know some Healers in your community I would recommend that you meet regularly. A group of us in our community meet each Tuesday @ Starbucks. We all miss over 80% of what Dahn offered; just could not bear the other 20% of B.S.
We are all tempted to return, but like A.A. we stay strong one day at a time.

By hopeful on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 01:07 pm:

I do not believe anyone on these boards is lying and I do feel sympathy towards those of you who feel your money was unjustly taken from you. From these expereiences you have grown and you have realized that dahns methods does not serve you. I cannot speak about the unfortunate death of the master in training because i do not know the facts and circumstances of her situation and neither do most of you. This does not mean what dahn has to offer isn't legit. I speak from experience when I say that for me and a great many other people I know dahn has allowed people to feel healthy again. Dahn has introduced many eastern/asian medicine to a great many westerners. the combo of eastern and western medicine is a much more complete way of dealing with a persons health and for that there are many people who are very grateful to the dahn practice. Lets also remember that too this is a practice, a way, a means for a person to regain their physical, and spiritual health. The money issue is definitely an issue, I too find it unfortunate that many people cannot afford to go to healer school. I am looking into developing a dahn scholarship program so that some people who may not have the means to receive this training can still benefit from it. The senior masters by the way are well aware of the need for restructuring the workings of dahn. It is growing so fast they realize there has to be some changes made, and there are changes as we speak. What I believe is most important is the connection people feel with themselves, their families, and the society as a result of their practicing, this is the essense of Dahn, the experience. If your experience was a negative one, I am sorry it didnt work for you as it does for me, that doesnt mean its all bad.
You are right enlightenment doesnt cost a thing but I was willing to pay because to have a path for me works a lot better than trying to figure it all out on your own which a lot of other yoga practices leave you with. Oh, and also, there are many people out there that jumped on the yoga bandwagon by taking a couple of courses and claiming they have it all figured out as well, teaching and the like without much experience. They are charging money too and while it may not be as much as dahn this unfortunately is the system we all work in. I wish it were all free too but it isn't. Money comes and goes but the experiences and growth can and does last a lifetime. By the way dahnworld recently donated well over 30,000 to tsunami relief, some was from members but they matched too.
Years ago when I was buying my wifes diamond for her engagement ring I couldnt decide between two. One was more expensive then the other. That one was the one I liked best but the other was more in my price range. The lady selling the diamond said Go with what you like because 10 years from now you wont remember what it cost you'll just know you got the one you felt was right. Well you know, she was right. I dont remember now what it cost but I am sure glad I went that way instead of trying to save a few bucks. Look my point is the value I received from my training in dahn was well worth it and when I am 80 yrs old I'll be glad I tried it and derived benefit from it even though it was pricey. We spend more $$ on cars and "stuff" without even thinking about it only to sell it usually in a few years time. Whats arong in investing that money in yourself?
Oh one more thing, my wife just the other day said she would be upset if I ever gave up using dahn because she has seen how much I love it and how much I've grown from it. Its all about respect and support and even though like I said she might not understand it sometimes she realizes love is also about allowing the other person to grow and be an individual instead of just playing the "roles" we are expected to play in life. Once again, thanks and peace and love to you all

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 02:47 pm:

"From these expereiences you have grown and you have realized that dahns methods does not serve you."

That is one huge understatement, if you knew the hell that some people have gone through.

And don't assume that no one knows what happened to the young woman who died, just because you don't. You'd just write it off as another growing pain for Dahn anyway.

Your plan to create scholarships for Dahn Healer school is scary.

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 03:47 pm:

Hopeful,

You say changes are happening as we speak. Do you believe these changes include reaching out to former healers who have been dissapointed in the past by their business practices etc?

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 03:57 pm:

There are those in the community who are uncomfortable thinking for themselves. Life is easier when someone else does it for them. In this sense they become a parrot of the master, and if they are told they are "enlightened", that is what's repeated.
Should they be shown that a company has bought scrub land in Arizona, it must be for a center, despite a lack of people. The same applies to a trailer park, a place RV's would park nicely, people in RV's need centers too. A person not on the Lee path might scratch the head, and say "yeah, sure, the millions of real estate is too promote a world healing philosophy!"
Does anyone want a posting of the land records in Arizona?

By Reciprocity on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 06:30 pm:

"I forgot to mention how helpful having the support of ex Dahn members can be to help sort out your feelings of loss.
If you know some Healers in your community I would recommend that you meet regularly. A group of us in our community meet each Tuesday @ Starbucks. We all miss over 80% of what Dahn offered; just could not bear the other 20% of B.S.
We are all tempted to return, but like A.A. we stay strong one day at a time."

Dude, you have to get into another school, and fast! There are real schools out there, that aren't cults, that aren't going to take thousands of dollars of your money (maybe $30-50 a month, tops), and will teach you a real method of self-cultivation. There are legitimate Chan and Pure Land Buddhist schools out there that are very good at what they do. Just make sure they are Chinese in origin. Also, there are Hinayana or Theravada Buddhist schools from Thailand or Sri Lanka that are quite good at what they do. Check their references, though, best to make sure. My favourite is T'ai Chi, though. In the old days it used to be a martial art, but nowadays only a few crazy people like me train martially. Real T'ai Chi's meditation value is superb, though. Good focus. And you eventually learn a skill! The best is to get a class as close to one of the T'ai Chi families as possible. Try:

www.yangfamilytaichi.com

or

www.wustyle.com

There are others, but these guys are the best for meditation and health benefits. Dahn's meditations are low-level crap, flummery, compared to the real thing from a school with heart and unconditional compassion, you'll see.

Don't pine for Dahnhak, learn from your experience with them, get off your butt and get to work! You'll move forward in your lives and soon forget all about the shysters.

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 09:50 pm:

Dear Reciprocity,
Thanks for the info. I needed that Been looking for some of those schools in my area. Really love Tai Chi meditation. Did try a very strict martial arts type tai chi. I was not interested in the martial arts aspect. The teacher ( a very good one) was only interested in serious martial arts students. At 62 just want to feel the connection.

By Reciprocity on Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 11:22 pm:

I'm sorry you didn't have a good experience. Every teacher is different, so I wish you luck finding a suitable one.

In T'ai Chi Ch'uan, the martial art is important for the teacher, not so much for the student, IME. I've been in the business for a long time now. In my teaching, anyone can benefit, but very few are capable of doing the full martial. I have dozens of students who aren't interested in the martial art aspect, that's fine. We can show little bits here and there, and people can benefit. The martial art is a "skillful means" of focus on the present, to spare us anguish over past and future, which is why I like it.

The following is a link to "The Teachings of Buddha" a sort of Gideon's Bible of Buddhist teachings, taking stories and quotes from many sources to illustrate the system, and I've found it immensely helpful. I had to help a dear friend when she decided to leave a Tantric-based cult, and this text helped her see what the Buddha really taught.

http://www.indutourismnews.com/buddha.html

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 08:46 pm:

Hey," Hopeful "enjoy the member life, really enjoy it, because all the masters were in your shoes at this moment(they were all just members in training). Once you become master you are not a member now. I hope the change for you is smooth. Good luck is master life if you choose it.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 09:08 pm:

Hopeful said: "I believe the enlightenment Ilchi Lee speaks of and has reached is very true is very subtle. In other words there is no huge grandiose "thing" that happens it just is a subtle but very profound sfift in overall conciousness,..."

Ilchi Lee wrote (of his enlightenment after after a 21 day fast with no food, water, or sleep (yeah, right): "My body wouldn't move, nor my tongue form a word. And it was at this moment that the cosmos opened up inside me and swept me into her arms with a loud resounding moment of enlightenment, a deafening crash that seemed to transport me to another world."

By laila on Sunday, May 08, 2005 - 10:16 pm:

More stories from Dahnhak:
At the YEHA conference when Dr. Lee was lecturing (we had a 20-minute coaching session beforehand on how to greet him with sufficient adulation. During the lecture at least 3 girls hyperventilated and passed out due to the hyped-up energy of seeing the Grand Master in the flesh), his eyes were constantly scanning the faces of the entire group. When I asked my Head Master why he was doing that, he replied, "He's looking for someone." Later he amended that to, "He's checking the souls' condition." After the conference I learned that GM Lee had sent one of his senior masters to a particularly beautiful and vibrant young woman from Scotland, to ask if she would like to become Dr.Lee's personal assistant, and travel the world with him. This was before asking her what her profession/skills were. Does this tell you anything? Fortunately, she is a very spunky gal and replied, "What, are you mad?" There are more incriminating rumours about Dr.Lee which I heard from a former Dahn Master, but this is only rumor and hearsay, whereas this incident with the young woman was told to me first-hand.

At this same conference, we were told to be careful when climbing, as someone in one of the training programs had gotten too close to the edge, and had fallen to their death. The unfortunate doctor?

I am told that my arrival in Korea was highly anticipated, due to the fact that I speak Korean. The senior masters in Sedona appeared to value my contribution to Dahnhak, telling me that I had "hidden connections" with them (their way of referring to interdimensional, or past-life connections, however you wish to describe it). One of the most beloved senior masters told me that I was like family to them and would be missed. I'm fairly sure they know about the incident with my Head Master, but not one of them has tried to contact me to inquire as to my emotional or psychological well-being, or expressed interest in whether or not I am still planning to take part in the Earth-Star program (the Korean exchange program). I do know that headquarters informed my Head Master that what he did was "dangerous", but I'm quite sure they meant dangerous to the organization, not to me! Everybody who still loves Dahnhak, forgive my cynicism, but I believe that Dahnhak is "old energy" in the guise of New Age philosophy of freedom and liberation. "Old energy" in that you have one big guru at the top who is feeding off of others energy, financially, etherically, and yes, perhaps sexually, while convincing all of the followers to observe celibacy for the sake of attaining enlightment. CAUTION: His books and writings state just the opposite of this, and members are treated like kings and queens (for a large fee, of course), but the so-called "Masters' Culture" is a hierarchy wherein people are scrambling over one-another in an attempt to gain crumbs of recognition from the top. They use the principle of Mu-Ah, selflessness, to justify the total control over the masters. When I refused to follow my Head Master's plan of "spiritual marriage", he said to me with contempt, "How long are you going to be Laila _____, anyway? In other words, I have no value as an individual self, therefore I should risk my legal standing, self-esteem, and the respect of my family and friends in order to give him what he wants! Wow! Can't people see what a violation this is? I am not writing this e-mail because I like to indulge in gossip, or because I have an axe to grind. When I joined DH, many people warned me to watch my pocketbook, but nobody warned me to watch my heart and soul for this kind of insensitivity. "Spiritual marriage?" Quite frankly, it felt more like "spiritual rape." That is why I finally reached out to tell some others what happened, and I have been very grateful for the supportive and intelligent responses I have received. Thank you so much.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 04:57 am:

Hopeful,
Get a grip! You are purely insane and brainwashed, you are saying everything that I used to think and say when I was involved in Dahn. I don't spend money on cars and other material items, you can't assume that of everyone. All you are doing is generalizing and assuming, generalizing and assuming over and over. You have nothing to backup your crazy beliefs other than "Dahn MAsters told me" Buddy get a hobby, most hobbies are either free or inexpensive.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 07:05 am:

Laila,

I expect your headmaster will be sent back to Korea very soon. My headmaster was transferred and demoted due to his failure with two healers who were scheduled to become Masters and changed their minds. And of course there was the lack of money raised.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 09:48 am:

Laila, thanks again for the detailed sharing. I'm sure it helps others to be cautious before or after joining Dahn.

If a senior master criticized the HM's proposal of a green card marriage as "dangerous," does that mean that all these Dahn green card marriages that we hear about aren't ordered or encouraged or condoned or even accepted by Dahn officials? If the green card marriages we hear about at Dahn are just coming from the masters themselves, we can say these individuals are creepy and stupid but we can't really blame Dahn.

Laila, I don't think that the young PhD professor was killed falling. Public autopsy records shows dehydration, exposure, and hyperthermia, and other online information shows Dahn's history of 18 hour hikes for master training (they probably quit doing that, we can only hope) and that Julia Siverls was on a masters training program when she died. It sounds like there might have been another Dahn death (not saying it was their fault, but it makes you wonder), if someone fell, but that could just be rumor?

Laila, you sound very angry at Dahn for the green card proposal. Calling it "dangerous" does sound like they were only worried about someone getting in legal trouble rather than about the ethics and morals of a master (supposedly "enlightened" through Dahn training) trying to manipulate you into an illegal and loveless phony marriage.

Ilchi Lee scanning the audience and picking out an attractive "traveling" companion is typical of cult leaders. I wonder what becomes of all the women who say yes? This is the same leader who just created a family healing movement.

Someone in Korea really should do a criminal background check on Lee and post it here or on rickross.

I really think that everyone here should post their stories on www.rickross.com's discussion board also, or write to him to add your story to his Dahn page's Visitor's Comments -- before this board disappears (not that I think it will, but it could).

Laila, can they figure out who you are from these posts? Are you worried about that at all?

I also appreciate Hopeful for expressing himself here, even if I do think he's wrong in his reasoning in defense of Dahn. I think it was brave to step out of the Dahn zone to share here, risking people calling him names. Many of the unhappy ex-members here were in Hopeful's position at one point, and they weren't nuts, just captivated to one degree or another.

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 10:12 am:

This is what I heard about the death of Julia Searls. My friend was told this my someone who was in the same Masters training class. Yes, they were up in Tiger Mountain doing outdoor training. (they have since changed the name of the mountain). (July in Arizona Hot as He__)
They returned without her. Not sure how long before they realized she was missing and DEAD. A response from one of the local masters about her family reaction to the death was " They are o.k. because she died doing something she loved". Wonder if there has been any financial settlement?

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 10:45 am:

The master probably actually believes that too. Would he have left one of his team behind to go missing in the desert heat with no water?

No one loves hiking in desert heat, to their death from dehydration and hyperthermia. Sick rationalization for a healthy young woman dying.

Witnesses, if you are reading this, come forward to the police with the facts and the truth, before someone else dies. You owe it to Julia and her suffering family.

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 10:50 am:

Wait, are you saying that your friend talked to a master who was on that same hike?

By Laila on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 11:08 am:

The reason my headmaster was reprimanded was because he asked a member for the spiritual marriage, as opposed to another master. The practice is condoned and encouraged by the organization, but only between masters who they feel can be trusted to protect one another from outside scrutiny. He was desperate and panicking, so he asked me on the basis of my having declared the intention of becoming a master. Yes, I'm angry, not so much due to his request, but due to the fact that he staged a sleazy, sneaky seduction scene, as opposed to asking me honestly and forthright. As a supposed spiritual guide/teacher this violated the trust and respect I held toward him. It was demeaning and insulting to try to lure me in by assuming I was desperate for a husband and child on any terms. As I've stated before, if I were a weaker person I would probably be suicidal by now. I'm not scared of retribution - they are the ones who are breaking and bending the law right and left, not me. I didn't leave Dahnhak because I can't hack it. I am a committed healer and felt it no sacrifice to devote most of my time to what I felt was a noble cause. I was just totally derailed by this sudden affront, and the things I found out about the organization afterwards through an interview with a former master. When I have sorted it all out and settled my finances a bit, I will look around for another system without so much accompanying baggage, as several of you have suggested. Again, thanks to all of those who have offered moral support here, and I agree that it also took courage to write in support of Dahnhak on this site. Believe me, I could have written one of those letters two months ago. I never dreamed that I would be writing a cautionary letter instead - never.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 11:17 am:

Okay, now I realize that you (Anonymous # 2,000) stated that the master said that Julia's family (not the master himself) feels it's okay because she died doing what she loved. It's possible that they uttered such words in their grief, but I can't imagine that they think it's "okay" to pressure students to hike in summer desert heat without proper supplies and protections in place.

Witnesses must go to the police and tell the whole truth -- or does honesty go against the principles of Dahn's enlightenment?
Suziecue

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 11:22 am:

Laila, the only way the green card scam will ever stop is if you call that hotline number posted above and report it. I don't know if they accept anonymity, out of fear of reprisal, but you can ask. Your honesty, and your anger, are more hopeful than anything that Hopeful has posted here.
Suziecue

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 11:24 am:

I believe so. At least that was the impression I got after my friend returned from another training event. I already knew of the Death; just did not hear that she had been left behind. I assumed her information was first hand then again it my be second or third.
At the time we were all "drinking the koolaid" pretty bad.

I am also confident the police interviewed all who were present; and there may be some legal cases in the works.

By Reciprocity on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 01:30 pm:

"because he asked a member for the spiritual marriage"

So, not only do they work physical torture into their mind-control regimen, they are a sex cult, too? It just keeps getting better...

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 02:02 pm:

Lets not get all off track with the sex issue. The Spiritual Marriags is a Green Card Marriage. I doubt they have time or energy for sex.

By Reciprocity on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 06:15 pm:

"but due to the fact that he staged a sleazy, sneaky seduction scene"

Well, they had the energy for a sleazy, sneaky seduction scene, seemingly. You can stay all on track if you want (whatever that means), but a cult that foists sleazy sexual relationships on its members is in fact a "sex cult" (even if that is only one aspect among others), which is a distinctly evil violation of a spiritual trust.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 08:06 pm:

Reciprocity, as usual you bring clarity to my thinking.
Thanks again.

By hopeful on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 09:03 pm:

I wasn't saying the experience of RECEIVING his enlightenment was subtle, I am saying the realization afterwards of what it means to be enlightened is just a subtle shift in your present conciousness. I dont expect you to understand really because you have so much hostility and anger (Which you have every right to feel). Thank you suziecue for your reaching out and understanding. Hey you dont have to be behind the dahn organization but I am sure most of us love the exercise, why dont we all just do some intestine exercise and try to get some of this energy out of our heads and down to our dahnjons. We all could use a little of that. If you stick to principles and practice you can still have good health and good energy. Isn't that we went to dahn for in the first place? Thank you all and I truly wish love and peace to you.
P.S. I think its funny how you are calling me insane and are being so hostile when you yourself said you once felt this way. If you wish to exchange ideas and your feelings do so just....relax ok? thanks

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 12:43 am:

Wow. There has been a lot of emotion posted in the last few days. The truth is that dahn will use you as a tool to reach lee's vision. Nothing more. They really don't love you. When you get to the healer stage and ultimately to master level you will begin to be aware that the hugging stops because other members are more needy. Your energy should be strong enough to do without it.

The truth is they have brought you to the desired level and you will do whatever is necessary to remain within the group environment. You want to be near the feeling that they have gotten you addicted to.

The truth is they don't care if they will risk your life by having you enter into a green card marriage. What is that punishable by? 2-3-4-5 years in jail? Do they mention that to prospective spouses?

The truth is they don't care. They are using members as tools. Are you a tool or Are you a human being with feelings and dignity? Through their training programs they make you believe you are not worthy. They tear you down and rebuild you as slaves to lee's empire.

The truth is they will break up your family because your family has bad energy. Ask some masters about their families. You would be surprised at some of the answers. They try to make it look good but you can tell when they are lying.

The truth is Julia Siverls died of heat stroke. The truth is dahn doesn't care about her because she was a dispensable tool. The other masters in training could have died as well but they were lucky that day. They were also dispensible.

The truth is that some masters are sent to sedona for six months for education or training, but in reality they are physically ill. Yes the long hours do take their toll on everyone. The unfortunate masters who don't heal in sedona are sent back to Korea where the government will probably cover their medical costs as dahn will not. Will you ever hear from then again? Who knows? I do know they are dispensible.

The truth is there is a sucker born every minute. Please read up on this group and try not to be a sucker for the organization. There will probably be more revealing information released about this group. It will not surprise anyone who has read this or other chat rooms about dahn.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 04:23 am:

Hopeful,

You are insane and don't talk to me about dohnjons, please. Yes I admitted that I felt as you do but never to the extreme that you obviously do and I NEVER pushed my ideas on others or tried to change their minds about their discomfort and suspicions of Dahn. I always had my suspicions but I was in the middle of a tragedy in my life and I had nowhere else to turn. I was only in Dahn for three months and I spent $3000 I was never as obsessed as you obviously are. I was duped and yes I am angry, that $3000 was my only life savings now I have no place to live. All for what, I will tell you yes I was a sucker, but then I got myself out of it, you can't seem to do that. So stop trying to get people to see it your way, they have theie own experiences that are pointing them towards the truth, what you say means nothing we have all heard it before, blah blah blah, no real answers just vague comments.

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 06:02 am:

Have a nice life. I hope you can pick up the pieces and move on, try not to get stuck on it. You should look up the what insanity means, I am not insane and while I feel sorry for you and your situation you are also being a little ridiculous.
If learning techniques like smiling and staying rooted in principles and practice is brainwashed well, I dont mind.
If learning how to watch my emotions and thoughts so that they dont get the better of me is wrong, I dont mind.
If learning healing techniques that bring comfort and healing and understanding to my friends and family and my job is brainwashing and wrong, I dont mind or care.
If teaching classes at a local senior center so that the elderly can feel good in their bodies and making them feel happy is wrong, I dont care.
If visiting local nursing homes with my young son and sitting with those who have no visitors coming to them and allowing them to feel love and giving my son a sense of responsibility is wrong instead of plopping him in front of a TV all day, I dont care.
If coming to the realization we are all one and there is no difference between you and me and no separation between where I end and you begin is wrong, I dont care.
I could go on, so while you sit there and sulk and try to "expose" and let the whole world know you were "duped" the world is going by and you are getting yourself stuck in something that you dont even like and you are wasting your time. Move on, you are obviously a strong willed person. Dont even attempt to analyze me and my life because I have given you a glimpse into my life. If what I have shown here in this posting is insane to you or anyone else...I dont care. I am a great person doing my best for myself, my family and everyone else.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 06:18 am:

good for you, hopeful. I am mad at myself for being a sucker I guess. I understand what you are saying. All of what you say makes sense. But also what I say makes sense. Like I said the people I met at Dahn Yoga classes were all young single people just trying to find their way, also some of the nicest people I have ever met. Many were immigrants from other countries with no family here, they were young and single and did not have much money. I just don't want to see these people get screwed by Dahn. They need their money to build their lives not to give to Lee so he can buy yet another house in Arizona. I just want young single people on their own to really be careful as to who they are giving their money over to. You can go visit people in nursing homes and teach children a good sense of responsibility without Dahn Yoga and spending thousands of $$$$$. I need my money to pay rent and buy groceries, if you have extra money great spend it as you wish. But you can visit nursing homes, learn techniques on how to stay happy, learn to control emotions, and feel connected without spending thousands of $$$. You will soon realize, I was also saying all that you have just said. I would say to myself "even if this is all crap, I don't care it still feels good." But then you realize that you are broke and lost all of your friends and family. It is not worth it there are other ways. Anyway I wish you the best. And you are right I am having hard time moving on, I feel I need to do something more. I really am angry, your right.

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 07:04 am:

I understand. I am sorry, Thank you for sharing your story, information and your feelings here. I really appreciate receiving a different view of Dahn. I know you will be ok...no great.

By Still a Healer on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 08:06 am:

To Hopeful:

I understand how you feel; I was there once; some of the happiest times of my life. A sense of purpose, making the world a better place, wonderful like minded people, laughing, dancing, hugging, feeling important, being understood, sharing my resources, time and money; happy to do it. I envy you those feelings. As someone said "one becomes addicted to it'.

Then you enter the inner circle; so dissapointing, rudeness, working, training, insulting, never enough, time, money, energy. You come to believe it is for your "Growth". We used all these terms; if it felt bad, it was for your growth. Chant, Chant, Chant; and what did you feel? Never the right answer. What is wrong with me? Why do I not hear voices in my head telling me to quit my job, work full time at the center, open my own center. And yes fly to Sedona for more and more training, especially Vision Training. If you are not working and attaining your Vision, you are LOST.
Hopeful, all of this will ring true for you someday; before you mortgage your family and soul HOPEFULLY.
Those of us who know the Truth of Dahn need to follow in the footsteps of Ilchi Lee. One of his favorite expressions and we all lived by it was;
NO Action NO Creation.
What action can each of us do today to get them to stop being dishonest?

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 08:43 am:

Interesting. What is vision training? Can you explain to me what it is. Are you referring to myungsa training or master in training?
I still dont understand what is so bad about training, establishing a vision and working toward and living a life that is on purpose. It seems to me to be a very noble way to live.

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 08:47 am:

oh, and there is nothing at all wrong with you if you dont hear any inner voice telling you to quit your job, work full time at center, and open your own. Absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to do that, and if anyone is telling you that is how you should feel well then that is wrong. Many people, most people actually just stay as members and never progress deeper and making this full-time.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 09:32 am:

Still a Healer,

that is what my goal is, that is the one reason I can't move on from my negetive dahn experience. I want to take action, I want to help people realize how dishonest Dahn is. I don't see myself a pouting over a money loss, I see myself as wanting to save others from this deceptive group. You are so articulate, StillaHealer, thank you.

By Still a healer on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 09:53 am:

Hopeful,
Actually you are incorrect. Most people do not just stay as members; maybe 10% or less. This 10% are ignored unless of course they happen to be doctors who can be used as a marketing tool or a few native Koreans who just come and do the exercises.

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 09:57 am:

so , you are still not answering my question and responding to the fact there is nothing wrong with not wanting to commit deeper.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 10:15 am:

still a healer is right, you can't be in Dahn 10%. It seems it is either all or nothing. It seems wrong to commit deeper because you are legitimizing this organization and I want to do the opposite. Basically you have an opposing goal to the rest of us on this message board, you want to make dahn appear legitimate, it is not, that is a fact in my life, I am the one with an empty bank account. Why are you even on this website, you obviously have your doubts as well. You know you can't change anyones mind here, each person gained this knowledge through first hand personal experience, there is no doubt in that.

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 11:18 am:

we arent saying 10% of your commitment...we are sying if 10% of the members stay as just members or if they commit on a deeper level....lets go!

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 11:38 am:

Congratulations to TAO Fellowship /Sedona Mago Garden for the purchase of Survivor IA.

Southwest Arabians
6430 N. Poplar Rd
Maricopa, AZ 85239

Veronica Cowdrey
Cell: 602.793.3364
Greg Cowdrey
Cell: 602.741.3364

Do you believe the IRS would approve of your non-profit contribution going for this purpose?
Are these work horses; to save the environment?

Fax: 480.833.4238
Farm: 520.568.0900
e-mail: veronica@southwestarabians

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 11:52 am:

OOOPs, what a bimbo I can be. You are right hopeful. hahahaa

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 02:25 pm:

Hopeful,

You said: "Absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to do that, and if anyone is telling you that is how you should feel well then that is wrong." I think you're getting the point that people are making here, except the "telling" is more clever than you might believe.

I can see your confusion that if you love a method and see it as spiritually awakening and healing, what is wrong with going all the way and sacrificing all to promote this method and its founder? What is wrong with choosing to work to create more of the very centers where you yourself benefitted so much?

You should really do some reading on the differences between devoting yourself to a manipulative and destructive business yoga cult and simply choosing to become deeply devoted to a spiritual master and cause. There are plenty of good articles on the Internet. Read about the Moonies, to start.

Maybe someone should tell Hopeful and others here exactly what Dahn "visions" consist of; he did ask. Are these Vision sessions where Dahn "Earth-Humans" sit down with senior "New-Humans" to discuss and create plans to clean up the environment, fight global warming, save old growth forests, feed starving children, end the Iraqi war, fight AIDS, drugs, crime, starvation, discover cures for cancer, house the homeless, make health care available to all, counter racism, build affordable housing, improve elderly care, fight domestic violence and child abuse, help disaster victims, save endangered species, etc?

Hopeful, you say you don't care if this and if that because you yourself have derived benefits. The things you mentioned are just normal to me, since childhood. Even elementary school kids sometimes take field trips to elderly homes to hold their hands and dance with them, much to their delight.

You say you came to realize we are all one and to control your thoughts and feelings, but we are also individuals, and our feelings can tell us a lot. If Dahn tells you to shut off your feelings and questions, such as doubts about Dahn or questions about Ilchi Lee's business dealings and wealth, that should be a red flag.

You say you came to see we are all one, but you seem to not see that many of the ones are giving up all so that one can get rich. You don't seem to care about the people who are routinely targetted by Dahn to become 100% dependent on Dahn and who are pressured by a culture of urgency and devotion to Ilchi Lee to commit immoral and unethical acts and manipulations on others? You say you care, but you keep promoting Dahn.

As long as you have a child and spend time with your family, then it's okay for your fellow humans to be manipulated into giving up theirs or never having their own families? Or maybe you don't believe these stories? Or maybe you don't believe people can be manipulated?
Suziecue

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 03:42 pm:

CLARIFICATION

I cut and pasted the post about Arabian Horse purchased by Tao Fellowship. My comments are in the middle; "Do you believe the IRS would approve of your non-profit contribution going for this purpose?
Are these work horses; to save the environment"

I did not intend to copy the contact information from the seller.

By Laila on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 05:57 pm:

They are "vision horses". For $100 you can go on a one-hour guided horseback ride, and receive a vision from the horse for your future - $200 for a longer ride. This is absolute fact; I just returned from Mago Garden in January, and have three friends who did this.
I absolutely love the people who are talking on this web-site! I suggest refraining from verbal insults toward one another, but keep the dicussion going! It obviously is highly therapeutic for all of us.

Love,

Laila

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 06:25 pm:

No way!

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 06:33 pm:

Oh, I meant no way about the horse visions, just to clarify.

By HOPEFUL on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 07:08 pm:

laila,
I would like to hear more about the "incriminating rumors" you know about ilchi lee, your posting on the 8th was very intersting, i'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 07:12 pm:

OH BY THE WAY WHERE DO YOU GUYS GET THIS INFO on legal stuff like autopsy's and stuff?

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 09:06 pm:

A good starting place is the Arizona corporations search page: http://starpas.cc.state.az.us/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/WService=wsbroker1/main.html

You can start by searching by "agent" and type in Seung Heun Lee. Then search by agent Michael P. McCann. You can search on some of the names listed as directors and officers, and then do a corporation name search on the business names you found to find more information. (Foreign means the primary business is located in another state.)

You can search property records online too, by county in various states. Just do a Google search on the city to figure out the county and then search for property records for that county in that state.

You'll begin to see a dizzying network of businesses and non-profits that are intermingled.

Then take two aspirin and call me in the morning.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 10:44 pm:

Please be careful not to report rumors. We all know how rumors can spread. It's very important for everyone's credibility to just share your own experiences and perceptions and information that you have good reason to believe. Just my 2 cents.

By HealerNoMore on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 12:12 am:

That is a very interesting site. I wonder if all of those business agents listed are masters? Did they all go to healer school or were they just friends and family of lee? Once you get past being a member you can start to see the cracks in the facade. They are a business of making money. They will never be able to save the world or humanity because that is not their primary concern. They use it as an excuse to keep the members preoccupied while they happily pay for programs they don't need. Ask yourself why you are being manipulated into thinking you are less than perfect. The masters are not perfect. I knew some that smoked and drinked, and looked at pornography. Look at how they live. They live like a hive. There is a definite hierarchy going on from the regional director to the headmaster to the master. How do you get promoted and what is the pay? If you don't make the monthly vision you will be told you are not doing enough and the third strike you are transferred to another center as a regular master losing respect amongst your peers. You will have to prove yourself all over again.

The vision horse made me laugh but it was not a surprise. They will figure out ways to nickle and dime you out of your last penny. I know of members who were asked to take money out of their 401k retirement plans. How stupid is that?

Why do they ask members to pay for cell phones for the masters to use? It is a multimillion dollar international corporation. The phones will be used for dahn business but they will not pay for them. Why do some members donate cars while paying for registration and insurance for said car? Why must money earned outside teaching exercises be donated to the center? They will not pay your transportation costs or your time. Will you do this for your current employer? I bet you wouldn't, but as soon as a master asks you you will do everything free of charge. Do you buy groceries for you fellow workers or your boss? Probably not, but you buy it for the masters.The masters cry poverty and the members believe their beloved masters and do anything to get a smile and a hug and to feel loved. You are being used. Anyone who is in this situation needs to do a reality check.

Try this simple test to see if you are being used. Gather up all of you receipts since you started and add them up. How much does this come to? Now add to that all that you have been told to give up because it is bad energy. Now add all of the friction with family and friends and employers caused by time spent at the dahn center. Don't forget to add any day trips where you are not paid for use of your car and any tolls. I probably forgot a few but you get the idea. If you add all of these up get the total and subtract that from what you could have saved for your future. Is it worth it? Your future with dahn will be just that, with dahn. You will be dependant on them. They are not your friends.

By clockwork on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 04:22 am:

I very much appreciate your sharing HealerNOMore, Laila, and Suziecue. Everything that you are sharing may possibly make someone think twice about giving their life to Dahn. That is all I want, I wish I had someone to have warned me. Because I always had my suspicions I just thought I was being narrow minded. I had nobody to warn me and I found out on my own. Laila this is very therapuetic for me. I am glad I have the support of all of you. Thank you

By hopeful on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 05:28 am:

I am under the impression that masters were given their salary, I know it is very small but that dahn paid for their car and insurance, rent. My idea was that their life wasn't so bad financially because i was/am thinking,"well how much money does one need when all of your fixed expenses are being paid for? After the bills are paid making 20-25,000 isn't so bad." My master has a pretty nice car, I think it is a toyota or something, it seems relatively new and in fine condition. I also often wondered about the region director how does he do it? What does he make? Does he make more than others. I love my r.d. he is so great, I just cant imagine him being like what you all say he is. My "people" have been so supportive and understanding in guiding me as I made my decicion to make this more of my life. Can I have more info about these aspects i am mentioning?

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 06:38 am:

A Healer told me personally that he had financed two new centers from his retirement account.He would loan his car for their use and they would return it with no gas. He was a little upset when on his way to work he ran out of gas.
Real Healers; Right!!!
He was active last time I heard. They had him believing he would have to go back on depression medication if he did not work harder for the Vision.

By hopeful on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 07:53 am:

I looked up the listings from the list above, but sorry, I dont get it, so what? So he has SUN listed and BR, etc. doesnt he need to? He also has a charitable organization on there too? Whats is incriminating about these records?

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 08:00 am:

I personally do not care how much property, cars etc that he or the corp. owns. I just want them to be truthful in their dealings and not prey on peoples emotions.
And one more thing "Treat everyone especially each other with Respect"

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 08:38 am:

Hopeful,

If you are so defensive of Dahn then why are you here? Why are you researching so much? You really seem torn. What are your thoughts? Are you having doubts? Be honest.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 08:56 am:

Hopeful; I am glad your are here. I am also glad you are checking things for yourself. You will begin to see that their actions do not match their words. Pay attention to how they treat people who are not working towards "Enlightenment" Watch the stress on the Masters to sign up more people for the next event in Sedona.
Watch how some of the female Masters hair is falling out, and how unhealthy some of their nails appear from all the stress. Even the biggest MASTERS in Sedona having nose bleeds and teeth problems.

Are they healing their bodies?

By Laila on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 11:49 am:

Dear Hopeful;

Your description of the Dahn world as a beautiful, illuminated place peopled with loving and caring souls is accurate. I just spent 18 months living in that world and I experienced it in exactly the same way as you describe. Unfortunately, I have come to believe that it is one of two distinctly different Dahn worlds. Call it World A, if you will. World A is the one experienced by members, up through Healer, Myung-Sa, Dahn Instructor. They experience some of the manipulation and exploitation of time and money, but are still getting lots of loving reinforcement to make it seem worthwhile. Then there is World B - the world of the Dahn masters. I started to experience this world when I was near to departing for Korea. My intention was to take a six-month leave-of-absence from my job to try out the life of a Dahn master so see if it would be my choice for the future. I had observed the rigid schedule they live by day to day - never leaving the center from dawn to dark, one day off a week which they often spend in planned group activities, no time off to see their families, etc. (Some senior masters take two weeks off a year to see their children; my Head Master has not seen his children in three years). However, I thought that if I found it fulfilling enough to spend all of my waking hours as a healer and teacher, it would be a good choice for my life. Then came statements from my Head Master such as, "I'm afraid they're going to try and keep you in Korea", "They might want you to stay for a year", "They really want American masters in Korea". One time he said vaguely that he was "afraid" of me doing masters training. I asked him if he was afraid that I couldn't keep up physically. He said, "No, something else". Then when the marriage proposal arrived, and he insisted that it be done before I left for Korea, I started to put two and two together. He was afraid that I was going to marry another Korean master and leave him in the cold! Suddenly I could see that I had become some kind of commodity, as opposed to a cherished individual who was being supported in her vision of spiritual growth. Because of my lovely sojourn in World A, when World B jumped up and hit me in the face, it was such a shock! I ended up going to my former therapist to try and sort it all out. I also turned back to my parents for support - they are amazing church leaders who have never done a single immoral or illegal act in their quest for enlightenment for themselves or the world. Interestingly, at this point of my journey in World A, I had come to have absolutely no feeling toward them whatsoever, as if they didn't exist. I am happy to report that my bond with them has been reestablished, and they are proud of me for discerning the difference between love and domination, and not falling apart under the strain of this very difficult lesson. I guess my message to you Hopeful, is, enjoy world A, but beware of world B. If you love your wife and child, they will not be allowed to follow you there.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 12:09 pm:

nicely put Laila!

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 12:21 pm:

Hopeful, there is no way you could have researched enough in this short amount of time. It could take weeks or months, looking at who their officers and directors are and then searching on those names as "agents" to see the other companies. Scroll up on this board and look at the list someone posted of 90 or so business names. That will give you a starting place too. You haven't even begun to research their businesses and you think you are done. LOL!

One known advantage of having a number of businesses is to avoid liability when someone sues, or to ward off lawsuits. Another way to avoid lawsuits is to target just young and single people. Wrongful death suits are harder to pursue and to win when the person has no dependents. Such clever enlightened business earth-humans.

The visions, Hopeful, are financial goals that must be met for Dahn -- they have nothing to do with any social cause.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 02:20 pm:

This is a message to Laila: There is one thing you missed. When your sabumnim went about asking you in the wrong way you must have compassion for him. Remember, everyone is each others teacher.

By HealerNoMore on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 02:24 pm:

An american master receives about $22,000 per year in salary before taxes. There is no overtime pay, medical benefits, or 401k plan available. They keep saying they will have it at the end of the year. It never materializes. If you live with the group or at a center you must contribute $200.00 per month for food. You must buy your own uniforms. They cost about $150-$200. There is usually a new one every year and it is required. Rent and utilities is usually covered by the center. During the once per month Chun do ceremony (a ceremony of thanks to Lee-yes he is their god), a donation is expected although not necessary. The money supposedly goes to Tao Fellowship. The car each center has is under the control of the headmaster and not for recreational use. You may never get to drive while working there. If you bring personal belongings to live with you such as a computer, if they allow it, it becomes community property. This goes for food also. You may not have a choice in what food is purchased and you may be hungry after dinner. You are not allowed to go out when you want to either. If you want to go out on a sunny afternoon you must hand out fliers or do dahn business. There will be no evenings at the sports bar or movies unless the headmaster says it is okay to do so. You will not be watching any of your favorite tv shows either. Your life will be under very strict control. Forget about having a relationship as privacy is almost non existent. The headmaster will probably not allow it anyway. Sex is bad. It takes your mind off of the vision. If you need to do laundry make sure you know of a 24 hour laundromat because you will be doing it on your time. (Who needs sleep anyway.) You will do bow training and chanting in the evening as well as in the morning before class.

The end of the month is the most stressful as the masters must make their visions happen. This means how much income, number of new students, renewals, healings, New human school,shim sung, healer school, and products sold. If the vision is not met they must explain themselves at the month end masters meeting. The general excuse is they were not focused properly and will try harder next month. (Look Out Members!) This means more bow training and more hours thinking only about the vision. No family, friends or leisure time. What a life.

By Laila on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 09:02 pm:

In addition to the $23,000 I've already paid (on credit cards) for Dahn programs, I was told that if I became a Dahn Master I would be required to purchase an additional $10,000 lifetime membership in Tao Fellowship. I remember wondering how, on a Dahn Master's salary, I was supposed to pay off all of that debt!
Anonymous, thank you for reminding me about the overview. My sincere hope from day one of this drama has been that both he and I would learn whatever we were supposed to learn from it. I know everything happens for a reason, and he said the same thing when he apologized - yes, he did eventually apologize to me, though I had the feeling it was more an attempt at damage control, than a true awareness of the affect his actions had on me. Also, he then expected me to go back to the way things were, which I have found it impossible to do, now that I see where he is coming from. He is so desperate, as HealerNoMore has described, to make good in the eyes of Grand Master Lee, that he is capable of these terrible lapses in judgement, where the people around him become the means whereby he can advance in the system. Last December, he asked two strong members, both Healers, to do special training for $5,000 each. He said that this money would go to help pay for me to go to Healers' School. Problem is, he never offered me a cent of that money. Anyway, they talked him down to $2,500 each for ten sessions, which consisted mostly of them bowing together without the Head Master even being present! When I asked him if it could be an ego trip to consider oneself a spiritual leader, and to be trying to advance oneself in the organization ,his reply astonished me. He said, "So what?" Yes, I do feel sorry for him for having left his family behind, and for giving over his mind to Grand Master Lee. Did I not mention the pain I have felt over losing the devoted, loving teacher he was for me, until the day he turned predator? What a shame that his teaching and healing gifts are compromised by all this pressure to produce material results. He is not malicious, just manipulated beyond reason.

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 01:07 am:

Laila,

You are absolutely right in the pain that you are feeling. You, as myself and many others were led to believe we were truly loved by the masters who guided us. The betrayal is painful. I found the best way to overcome the pain is to read everything I can find about how they manipulated me. I also have renewed my interests in things I did before dahn. You must understand that it was not your fault. They saw a weakness and took advantage of it for their own gains. I have no hatred towards the masters. I have a lot of sympathy for them as they have not awakened from their sleep. One day soon before it is too late I wish for them to become aware of how they are being used and giving up their lives to such a con artist. In the meantime I will say a prayer for them and you as well.

By Andrew Nevis on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 06:01 am:

A question has come to mind, that maybe this board can answer. If dahn is as ancient as Lee claims, how did he understand it? Which scholar's work was he reading?
Lee does not have the abilities to read ancient texts, he had to use someone else's notes.
When it comes to ancient material, no copyright can be enforced. That means anyone with the language skills can translate and give away free books on Dangun and his enlightened society. Anyone interested?
On a more modern thought related to charity. Isn't enlightenment about letting go of materialism? If a person was to follow Lee as he does, not preaches the philosophy would come out as, "greed is good, greed is enlightenment."
I found this to be true by following the link to property records in Arizona. Here are some of them for those too busy to look.

Tao Fellowship Full cash value 2005
407-23-003T - 2.62 acres - $ 74,670
407-23-003Y - 2.31 acres - $ 65,835
408-15-0062E - 2.21 acres - $ 989,127
408-21-006 - 30.51 acres - $ 556,579 (Sedona)
408-21-006C - 18.05 acres - $ 379,050
408-21-006F - 15. acres - $ 315,000
408-21-006H - 5. acres - $ 125,000
408-21-006J - 79.43 acres - $2,138,311 (U.S HQ)

Seung Heun Lee
301-09-002M - 109.23 acres - $45,500
301-09-006 - 160. acres - $46,000

Joung Han Lee (listed on dahn company papers)
408-15-008 - 1.27 acres - $421,445

BR consulting
405-33-176 - 0.17 acres - $65,000
406-07-011E - 0.32 acres - $21,000

B R Consulting
406-03-022D - 8.71 acres - $189,504 (Stables)
406-03-020B - 0.17 acres - $ 16,930
406-03-21G - 0.00 acres - $ 10,000
407-23-019 - 1.47 acres - $ 41,895

Vortex Healing Park
406-07-011C - 30.14 acres - $558,727 (RV park)

Oasis Arabian
406-03-015 - 1.07 acres - $93,199
406-03-22B - 0.34 acres - $56,201
406-03-22C - 0.45 acres - $10,000

Is Lee's secret refrain "I'm rich, I'm rich?" He writes he doesn't need money, that he can stay for free in public parks, but the reality is quite different.

As to dahn members saying in Korea, there are no major complaints. This is attributed to average Korean not having a history of speaking out. People accept suffering in silence. What is written here may help, bilingual ex-dahn's in Korea know they are not alone.
On dahn's love, it is amazing how conditional it is in the group. All members are loved, as long as they do as they are told. This won't change despite dahn apologist's denials.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 06:06 am:

I agree, I loved my master and respected her. I looked up to her, she is beautiful young girl. But I ended up feeling betrayed due to the fact I truly believed evrything she told me. I thought we related to each other, she told me she experienced depression and anxiety the same way I did. I really admired her and trusted her, I believed that she truly wanted the best for me and believed that I deserved the best. But it is a real feeling of betrayal when you realize all they wanted was your money and they would say anything to get it, ANYTHING! I ended up feeling so used. I feel sorry for this master she is a gorgeous young woman who is also a sweetheart and I think she could be outside of Dahn living her life and having so much fun, I do pray for her everyday. I wish I could help her. (To Danielle G.)

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 06:47 am:

When a visitor visits a Dahn Yoga Center they are asked to fill out a visitor information sheet. It asks about medical conditions. It is amazing how much personal information people reveal on these sheets to complete strangers.

That information is used to determine their problems and how to cure them with a long term membership,later healing sessions, workshops, bla, bla, bla, until the well runs dry. The exercises do make one feel better and a little love and attention goes a long way for someone in pain.
If they would love these people with sincerity, all would be well and we would not be on this board.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 12:05 pm:

Andrew, Have you had any repercussions from Dahn as a result of your public disclosures?

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 05:49 pm:

This was an enlightening stop in my research on "Dahn Yoga". A Dahn Center recently opened in Las Vegas Nevada and a friend and I visited it today. I sensed that things were not right, as soon as I walked in the door but my friend was earlier than I was and was already in a separate "energy consultation" room. I thought it was odd that we were kept apart throughout the experience, and that I was asked to pay while still in the room. Even though I expressed my inablity to pay at this time, I was pressured into making a "deposit". I knew I was being duped, but the headmaster was so "nice". Hope we can get out of this without too much loss.

By NoMoreLies on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 06:23 pm:

I am a former Dahn member, Dahn healer, Dahn leader in training. I am off the "ride" No More Lies. I healed my body as a Dahn member, dedicated my time in service as a Dahn healer, and was assaulted and battered by a Dahn Master.

If you want to heal your body you can accomplish this at Dahn, but you will pay a high premium both in terms of material value and quite possiblly emotionally.

Qigong, energy healing, tai-chi is taught in every corner of the globe.

Dahn Yoga/Brain Respiration/Dahnhak is a front for an ancient Korean belief/teaching/religion.

Ilchi Lee,aka Grandmaster Lee, Seu Seung Nim=SSN) went to an ancient mountain in Korea and received his enlightenment he states "The lineage of principle was in danger of disappering once. Now it is connected and revived through me, Mago's Dream and Dahnhak. This is divine will and providence." Excerpt from page 39 of New Human Leader Training manual.

If you continue with your Dahn yoga practice, it won't be long before you'll have a conversation with the Master of your center, encourgaging you to sign up for Healer school(10k), or YEHA.

Next,you'll probably have a conversation regarding your Vision and if your single, under 65yrs. of age--(65+ if you donate money), or in a "rocky"relationship you'll be encouraged to go to MIT (Master/SaBumNim in Training)to learn the principles.

If your married and/or have children(small, school age)you'll be encouraged to go to New Human Leader Training to help in the Vision to open more centers. The goal for 2005 is 360.

"If you do don't plant your roots in principles and continue to work hard there will come a time when you will be faced with conflict. You'll reach your limit. You'll become attached to the amount of effort you put in and expect something back it. You'll just be doing things exactly as you once did while living in a material paradigm. You'll forget about your growth and cling to how much income you're earning. First, make sure that you clearly meet Dahnhak's standard for personal growth. If you don't have clear standards about your personal growth, there'll be confusion. Someone with victim's consciousness will say that she was used. No one who is using anyone and no no one is being used. To think this is very immature. The times are now changing.

What are principles? Principles? What are so called principles? Do you stand by principles? Or do you not stand by them? Say that even without knowing principles, you become a star. Then what happens? There have been such stars who have betrayed Dahnhak. What does this mean" It means it wasn't yet time for principles to take a hold. The time for principles to become fully alive is the Shin-Myung period(when the spiritual body attains translucence). During Jung-Choong period (when physical energy is filled) if one just worked hard using their physical energy even without that kind of standard, a certain level of selfishness and self-conceit were allowed. Working hard with just physical energy, that person could become a star. But once enough time has passed, that person falls into mistaken grand beliefs about himself and starts walking on the path fallen from grace. This is a truth that has been proven by the history of our organizaton. So what period are we in now? It is the Ki-Jang period(when energy body becomes strong.)...What are principles? Your roots have to be planted in Dahn Center. To put it more simply, if your roots are in Dahn Center, you won't even have the smallest thoughts of leaving when the going gets tough. Because there are people who think about leaving when it get tough, I can't trust anyone That's what makes people start judging and discriminationg even Se-Seung as well as principles. They start to critcize Dahn Center. And start looking towards the world and start thinking: Why am I like this? Why am I faced with so much conflict? Why am I being so discriminatory? This is all because you have not put your roots down. If you put your roots down once and think, 'Even when I die, I'll die in Dahn Center,' then these thoughts will disappear. If you think that you'll use Dahn Center simply for your own purposes, you'll be discriminating." Excerpt from page 22 of New Human Leader Training.

BUYER BEWARE!!!

By morelies on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 07:38 pm:

"Dahnhak masters are part of the Ilchi family. Are your part of this family? Do you have the basis for this family? You need to ask yourself this. What is the meaning of the Ilchi family? If you do not feel close to this, see for yourself how your mind power has been weak, how you were not motivated, how yur were not active in your work. Evaluate yourself for this.

Right now, I am talking about a needle-end plan. We do not have much time left in order for us to achieve our vision within the next ten years we must become one like the end of a needle. Our power neeeds to gather into one. Even though our age is diffferent and our sex is diffferent, we must become one. How can we become one? There is something in a Dahnhak that will never change and of which there is only one. This is the ceter point.

The distinguising mark of Dahnworld is the relationship between Se-Seung (Ilchi Lee) and Jajah (Master) No theory, religion, ideology or other value can enter this relationship. This is when we become one like the end of a needle.

This is when we can exhibit a small but strong power and change the material civilization into a spiritual one. For your consciousness to reach the elvel, all of you must put in your own effort. If your consciousness had not reached this level, that is the work that your have to do. If your consciousness did not reach this level, that power will not come out.
Therefore the work we are doing is the work of saving this world, but to do the work of saving this world YOU MUST BE PREPARED TO DIE. That is how we can save the world. Evan when saving a child from drowning in a river, you cannot do this if ou are not prepared to give up your life"
From New Human Leader Training p 24

As you can see Dahn Masters are prepared to die for Ilchi Lee; so whats a little deception? no big deal!!!

With a motto like "Whatever it takes for as long as it takes"

Lee has them in his back pocket.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 08:56 pm:

wow those are strong words from the new human leader training. I feel like going back but I disliked handing out flyers.
They always come up withsome cool analogies. The needle head one is new to me.

By Andrew Nevis on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 09:07 pm:

No, dahn has not threatened me. All I have done is made public records easier to find. Think of this as my contribution to public enlightenment.
Noticed that I missed putting two records up.

BR Research Institute Corp
405-33-175 - 0.17 acres - $65,000
405-33-174 - 0.17 acres - $65,000

It would be great, if someone had a website where a map could show the dahn shaded areas. The sight would be quite amazing, especially when other areas of the U.S are added.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 09:15 pm:

"Therefore the work we are doing is the work of saving this world, but to do the work of saving this world YOU MUST BE PREPARED TO DIE. That is how we can save the world."

This is very frightening. This kind of verbiage from a cult leader can only lead to trouble. Jonestown comes to mind. I hope I'm just reading into this.

NoMoreLies, you said you were assaulted. Do you mean physically attacked?

I see Ilchi Lee intimating that he is god, or at least the answer to saving the world, but does he actually say he is, in so many words?

Thanks for posting all of those quotes and other information. The integrity of people posting here is astounding and refreshing.

SuzieCue

By Mouse on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 11:19 pm:

*peeks in, rubbing her eyes* Wow, it's been chatty since I've been here last. Anatomy midterms... good times. >_<

...And those quotes are creeping me out. I wonder how much of that manual could legally be posted on Rickross.com or someplace. Come to think of it, they might post the personal accounts posted here as well. But regarding Jonestown scenarios and preparedness to die--I think it's BS, if only because dead people can't tithe or serve the machine.

But I'm morbidly curious if anyone has any dirt on the "betrayals of Dahnhak" and "falls from grace" mentioned in the excerpts? Is that just part of the brainwashing package, or is it a reference to internal politics?

And just for S&G: How are people finding this discussion? (Raise your hand if you found this board by Googling the phrase "Dahnhak fraud", as I did?)

By Anonymous on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 12:35 am:

Someone posted here that Seung Heun Lee had been arrested 15 or so years ago and that he celebrates it as the day that heaven turned dark (something like that), something to do with masters betraying him. Seems the event only served to make him more popular, if I understood the poster right. It would be interesting to know more about that arrest.

By clockwork on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 04:34 am:

Hello all,
Mouse to answer your question I found this site by googling "Dahnhak yoga cult", and I got many mnay websites that way.
Nomorelies that was a great posting, I had never known that much about the manual, very interesting..... scary scary stuff. This is a great discussion all!

By Anonymous on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 05:04 am:

"If you do don't plant your roots in principles and continue to work hard there will come a time when you will be faced with conflict. You'll reach your limit. You'll become attached to the amount of effort you put in and expect something back it. You'll just be doing things exactly as you once did while living in a material paradigm. You'll forget about your growth and cling to how much income you're earning. First, make sure that you clearly meet Dahnhak's standard for personal growth. If you don't have clear standards about your personal growth, there'll be confusion. Someone with victim's consciousness will say that she was used. No one who is using anyone and no no one is being used. To think this is very immature. The times are now changing. "

Is this all part of the final paragraph and Quote from NHL book? Sorry this paragraph confused me, I wasn't sure if this was your thought, a positive one, a few errors left in a little confusing. To me I must admit the whole thing sounds great, and I agree with the whole needle theory.

By Anonymous on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 12:33 pm:

Well, if you wish to become one with just Ilchi Lee, like the end of a needle, willing to die for him, and shame on you if you find yourself feeling victimized by him, used, because he's trying to save the world, yeah, then it sounds just dandy.

By Mouse on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 02:29 pm:

Anonymous #372: If you remove the quote from the context it was presented in, then yeah, it's a potentially useful set of thoughts. (Wow, that could sum up the entire Dahnhak experience.) But IN the context it was presented--as part of a training guide to be a subordinate in an organization--it's basically telling you that your own common sense and sense of self-preservation are wrong and bad if they don't agree with "Dahnhak's principles". It might actually be an empowering quote if you removed the phrase "Dahnhak's principles" and put your name in its place. Of course, then you have to define your principles, and that's always a pain...

NML, do they ever explain WHAT their principles are, beyond the rhetorical questions? I think we've formed our own opinions here about them, but I'm curious. (I wonder why I don't call myself Cat instead. ;)

By NoMoreLies on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 05:36 pm:

Thanks Anonymous #372 for clarifiying the quoted context on principles. To answer your question, I don't believe there is enough space on this board to post all of the principles of this organization. If you would like to know something in particular, I'll try an answer from my firsthand experience or thru some other source.

Laila's post on May 8th, was an excellent overview of Dahn's principles"...old energy in the guise of New Age philosopy." Thanks Laila!

I like to thank all for the great posts on this public bulletin.

I respect those who will have opposing views to what I post here. I'm not trying to dissuade those who will continue to join,support and work for this organization. My intention is to share the other side-the side that is not seen.

The principles change as you move from visitor-new member-renewed member-healer-(gold member)myungsanim-sabumnim-exmember.

I

By stillahealer on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 07:31 pm:

To Nomorelies
I assume you were assualted spiritually and emotionally as I was.Is this correct?

I love your last comment on the continueinum (sp) visitor-newmember-renewed -----ExMember.

Great way of putting it. Only those who have been through the system would really understand.

We have such clever people here!!!
Thanks for sharing

By NoMoreLies on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 10:19 am:

I was assaulted spiritually, emotionally and physically. Spiritually and physically I have healed. The emotional recovery...well, that is why I post.

You asked the million dollar question. . .
" What action can each of us do today to get them to stop being dishonest,--- I think here is a good start. Other exmembers want to take stronger measures and I agree with that too.

The hardest part for me to accept is that others will follow electing their free will. You and I did. Now, I am electing Power over Force to disseminate and unveil the truth.

Your other question "Why do I not hear voices in my head telling me to quit my job and work full time at the center" is ringing true for a close friend of mine who has just completed Vision Training. Can you tell me more about Vision Training?(I was too busy working @the center to attend this training

Thanks for your sharing

By Stillahealer on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 11:15 am:

Dear nomorelies,
Like you this board reminds me there is much more emotional healing to be done. Like all victims of abuse, one forgets the bad stuff and only remembers the good times. Until we started this most recent thread I was thinking about returning for the physical reward and the exceptional people I met along the way. Divine Order at work once more in my life.
What was I thinking?

I did not attend Vision Training along with my headmaster and a few others. The headmaster had to go alone, complete failure in their eyes. They really wanted me to go; I had just returned from Leadership Training exhausted. I think they sensed that the Leadership Training did not take. I did pretend to go along as a survival mode as I watched others who resisted get brow beaten into submission.

Long answer short, I do not know what goes on there, except early last year they were frantically calling each centers headmasters and key people there to get them with the Vision of 360.
In the Power v Force Lee stated that Staying with Dahn has a higher vibration than leaving Dahn.
What do you think the author Hawkins would think of that one? B.S.
Hugs

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 08:43 pm:

They told me in an intiation ceremony. If you leave us (dahn) your spiritual life dies. It hit hard in my brain because I was deep in meditation.

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 10:10 pm:

If a person was to check to see whether Lee was arrested that would prove difficult. The only people able to access that kind of information would be Korean's or international police forces who have a valid need. Should a person be able to meet these requirements, they would most likely find no record exists.
Destroying a police record at the time of Lee's noted arrest would have been easy, especially for a man with either money and/or influence. Bribing officials to remove unsightly histories is all to common in Korea. Yes, it is a problem the justice ministry doesn't like, but it doesn't broadcast it either as it notices the holes in police files. Hopefully the switch to digital records with backups will prevent future tampering.
Who knows maybe he'll offend again in the U.S?

By Anonymous2 on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 10:19 pm:

I felt the same way and it prompted me to find the roots of (Dahn's)grow "your soul" potpourri.

googled:Dangun,Korea

other key links:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/dti/dti3.html
http://www.esclcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtop

By Andrew Nevis on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 10:22 pm:

As to Dahn speaking of family values with it's World Healing Family Association, the damage is not shown. In Korea, children are seen as part of the social safety net, they are entrusted to look after parents in old age. That is why so much money is invested in education, successful children ensures a comfortable old age for the parents.
When Dahn takes the children away to work as low paid workers, they force the parents to share in the suffering. Dahn has been denounced in more than a few churches in Korea for doing that and splitting up families. Where is the healing in dividing Korean families?

By openminded & confused on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 01:04 am:

Thanks Everyone for all the very informative comments.

I really appreciate hearing both sides of the story. I went to a YEHA thing yesterday (had a great time btw) on a recommendation from my Mother who has been involved with this program for several months and has had very beneficial results. She told me about the weekend retreat a few weeks ago and said it brought out emotional issues she had never confronted before, it was very uncomfortable for her but supposedly necessary for healing. Now she is going everyday, doing 103 bows each morning before sunrise and then doing regular class later in the morning. I'm a little worried, but I notice an improvement in her overall appearance. There is definately a brightness in her eyes that I did not notice before.

I've been reading ALL NIght looking for all the information I can find. I must say, by the end of my first and only session all my scam alert red flags went off, but I thought it was just me. I am sooo glad to hear from current and ex members. Honestly, the whole thing seemed like a cult to me right away but that really doesn't bother me. I felt like all the people were very nice and looked very healthy, bright, and happy. I felt like I would like to feel that way too. I see no problem with dedicating my life to helping and healing others (the idea of giving up all my worldly posessions to live in a commune has crossed my mind more than once) and with the limited information I had before yesterday I figured "why not?" I even had a long conversation over lunch afterward outlining the benefits of giving ones wealth to such a communal organization if that sort of thing appeals to you.

They did dodge ALL my questions though, like:

How do you determine what is wrong with my internal organs using only touch?
Will I see a Doctor?
How long do your "masters" train?
What methods do you use to train masters?

Now that I have read all the posts on this site I am very wary of the whole scheme. I did not learn anything I was not already familiar with, and the exercise routine seemed like a watered down mix of several more authentic practises (I've never heard of Chakra centers used in conjunction with Chi cultivation before but I thought it was interesting).

Overall the whole thing made me feel great, but I am worried about the money. I would feel much better about the whole thing if they were more up front about the cost. Even the official website makes no reference to advanced training, the cost of the getaways, or even the cost of regular membership. Now that I have the information presented on this page, I will definately keep going on my search for a legitimate source of meditation and healing.

I'm still not sure if I feel sorry for the people involved, because it really doesn't seem like a bad lifestyle overall. The instructors seem to have very healthy lives, all their needs are met, and they seem fulfilled. I do know that I am a broke ass college student and I don't need pressure to give my savings over to "the Master."

I found this thread by searching for Dahn Center Houston on google and am very appreciative of all the honest accounts and personal experiences posted here... thanks.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for as far as a response goes, but I think people should let others make their own decisions and be conscious about their own decisions. The main reason I will not be pursuing a life in the Dahn world is because I can't afford it. That's the real problem..... enlightenment is free, and I probably would consider working for the cause if it didn't end up costing more than I can afford.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 05:21 am:

All of your concerns are legit and understandable, however your experience is more important than reading about others, I mean this thread is all about the negative side there are over a million people who have had a profound positive change in their lives as a result of dahn, check it more for yourself and give it some time you will soon see like your mom how beauiful it is. Don't let this negative thread ruin your own opportunity. In ANY group or organization you will find a handful of people who are against it you name it, there will be others who find either it costs too much, it doesnt work, it breaks up families, hell the Rolling Stones are going on tour and there are tons of "followers" who are pissed at them saying they're just in it for the money, they don't care about you as the fan, they dont care about the music anymore...bla bla bla. Go for it and like your mom you will experience a beautiful growth within you. Point is...see for your self and focus on the positive, and talk with your mom some more.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 06:06 am:

i meant to say that any group from AA, to even something silly like the music group the rolling stones you will find others who are going to be against them

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 06:43 am:

Openminded and confused.

You are on the right track; try to watch out for your mom. We have had the look in our eyes before; why not; on a mission to heal oneself and save the world. Texas is being targeted by them this year. The marines have landed.
Watch your Wallet, but more importantly watch your body and mind. It takes much longer to recover from the mind games and loss of dream than replacing the money.
Even if you decide to stay; keep reading these posts and others. That way your radar will stay up.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 08:10 am:

"I'm still not sure if I feel sorry for the people involved, because it really doesn't seem like a bad lifestyle overall. The instructors seem to have very healthy lives, all their needs are met, and they seem fulfilled"

They are actors trained to appear to be happy, fulfilled and have all their needs met. Take for example if a middle aged lady pays to go on a cruise ship; the staff is trained to be happy, attentive, laugh and dance with her. They would be FIRED is they acted bored or had any personal problems related to the employment. When I shared this with another exDahn friend of mine; she laughed saying "just like a stripper"
You pay me, I will make you feel special, I will dance with you.
Remember they are business people, highly trained ones at that

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 09:16 am:

"there are over a million people who have had a profound positive change in their lives as a result of dahn"
And where did you come up with that number? Count the number of centers and lets say giving them the benefit of the doubt that each center has 100 members; no way over a million.
Fuzzy Accounting one more time.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 10:31 am:

Dahn would love for you all to trust your own experience and feelings, that's how they get people to invest everything they have, emotionally and physically and materially. I don't see anything that they do as a way to save the world or to advance yourself spiritually. It might look like just a handful of people are complaining, but most masters are completely dependent on Dahn, have lost their ability to see past the Dahn culture of blind devotion to Ilchi Lee (this happens with most cults) and dare not complain or they are rejected and shamed and dare not lose all that they invested in. Dahn is a business and they are making and spending profits on themselves. Ex-masters are coming forward now. It isn't easy to do that. Some people on this board will try to make their own blind devotion seem okay by blowing off all the warnings coming out now instead of answering all the issues coming up.

By hopeful on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 02:07 pm:

I agree with anonymous that there are many people aorund maybe not quite a million but a large number of people who are very happy being members in dahn. It has made them physically healthy, and strong emotionally and spiritually. I know many people obviously here on this board are going to confront my words and feelings but lets not forget that for anything in life there is the opposite as well.
Do I believe the system is perfect of dahn from an organizational business standpoint? NO
Do I believe there neeeds to be restructuring within? YES
Do I believe that Ilchi Lee has created this movement for the betterment of humanity and to bring peace to the world through dahn and BR? Yes I do.
Do I believe that there are many people who don't get it, or feel duped, or feel like it is a scam because their energy wasn't changed? Yes.
But lets keep in mind that as dahn follows a certain path there will always be an equal path alongside that will have a negative spin on it. Why not dwell on the positive? I know I am in the "wrong" forum to suggest this and my intention is not to convert but this is a law I am sharing. You cannot have yin w/out yang, up w/out down, good w/out bad. You know what I mean?
If you had right along side this thread of info all of the postings of positive aspects of dahn it would be equal or even longer than the negative.
I have read the above posting about the New Human training and like some other anonymous, I dont see anything wrong with it. I find it to be an admirable notion to choose, thats right, CHOOSE to devote your life to a cause that has a noble mission. To focus your efforts like a needle is what is necessary so that the world, in its ever crazy, dangerous state needs so that we may re introduce peace to this world. If you don't agree, you don't have to follow. I believe there are many paths that lead to the same destination ultimately and this is just another path.
I often think if the leaders of the world could experience dahn the world could brighten its energy and we could experience true harmony.
Almost every leadeer throughout history who was positve and worked for peace and opening peoples minds has always had a group of people who tried to bring him or her down, it is a natural way of things when it comes to these things.
Dahn unfortunately needs to make money because you know it is a business and without money you no longer stay in biz. As far as the analogy of going on a cruise and receiving smiles...well c'mon! Just because a person contributes to a persons business and receives warm appreciation and smiles doesnt mean they are phony and are trained to do that in some sense like they dont care. A business person smiles because they appreciate the support and the business. Because my master smiles at members and hugs them doesnt mean it is phony, she really is happy that the members are there. Why? Becuase she has vision and she has hope that if people can experience love and unity and peace within themselves then maybe, jsut maybe the world can begin to change and heal itself. (And for the record trainig yourself to smile is a great way to change your outlook and experiences in your everyday life )Sure she may have quotas to meet and everything but unfortunately there is a real need for money so that this vision can reach others in other parts of the world and stay in business.
Call me what you will.. brainwashed, whatever, but one could even consider this thread of the dangers of dahn brainwashing.. its the same thing, just the other side of the coin. Dahn is all about choosing. You can choose. You can say either I want this way or that way, choose what is right for you. This is my experience. If I listened to what some have said negatively about shim sung and as a result I never participated in it I would never have experienced it for what it was. For me it was one of the most beautiful, strngthening, and revealing experiences of my life. If I had bought into the fear that is being spread I would have missed out.
If nothing else I stopped smoking, I rarely drink if at all anymore, I deal better with stress and lifes difficulties. Yes I am aware there are many programs out there to get you to take charge of your life, but dahn is what worked for me soooo....the message is go with you want but beware of feeding the fear, cause thats what you'll end up with, fear and uncertainty. I choose to stay on the positive side of dahn because thats what I want to end up with. There are two paths remember which one will you feed?

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 03:37 pm:

To: Openmind & Confused & Others Who Discover this Site

I hope that when you read the sharings on this post you can "feel" the deep and honest sharings from the former members, healers, myungsanims, and sabunims.

I can say for myself and I believe others have expressed the same---we never imagined we would have had the Dahn experiences we now share on this board.

Five months into my Mastership Level membership(Initial Awakening, Shim-Shung(FTS), More Than Body, Reintergration, I had heard by way of another member about Rick Ross website. She decided to cancel her Dahn membership completely after reading the info. about Dahn(Yoga)/Dahnhak,etc. I was perplexed over her decision.

As a new member(5mos.) I did not have the courage or the desire to visit the site. I experienced substantial improvements in my overall health. The atmosphere was so warm and loving. The masters gave me so much attention and energy- - -Why should I concern myself about the "negative" things posted on RR website.

When I was into my membership some 7 months and working as a volunteer@ the Center(Dahn). I visited the RR website. I was shocked!!! It really disturbed me to read the "negative" information about Dahn. I went from shock to anger- - -how could such things be true. I dismissed them--just people with closed minds.

Today, I have left friends at several (Dahn) centers. I am not standing outside with a picket sign stating "Get Out". I am sharing my experience and knowledge to them and others---you can receive healing, you will feel the warmth and love(member level). You will be encouraged thru your private one-on-one sessions to renew your membership to next level(IA,FTS, MTB, RI). After Finding Truself(SS) you'll be encouraged to go to Healer School. After you graduate from Healer School, you'll be encouraged to work/open a center. You'll still feel the warmth and love from the masters, healers and entire staff. You may begin to see things change once you become a full/part time employee. You may be encouraged no to say things so freely,--you'll have to know the principles. You'll be in the "inner-circle". You won't be acknowledged in the "family"(Dahn) until Myungsanim/Sabunim level. This is where you'll see the aspects of "the national "quasi/ancient" religious movement of Dahn/Dahnhak.

Reap the benefits of the Dahn Yoga program--- it's your choice. If you can keep it your "choice"---please share on this board how you have succeeded. We should always hear both sides of the story.

To Openmind & Confused, if your mom is achieving her goals be supportive of her. Like others have stated, there are many happy Dahn members.

One final note, usually after YEHA training you'll be encouraged to become a "Master". Make it your choice. If you tell them (Dahn) that you don't have funds to pay for the program they'll help you overcome your "obstacles"---they may suggest pay as you go program. ($22,000 Master salary can repay the loan they'll extend to you). Dahn will need 360 newly recruited Masters to open the 360+ centers. Keep it your choice!

I am a former member and instructor and I commend the "active" Dahn members visiting this site. Tell us how long you've been a member, keep checking in and let us know your experiences as you move thru the programs. Tell us if your still able to express "freely" as we are here, the pros/cons of the Dahn program @Healer,MSN, SBM level without retribution--- you "need" to stay in your "dahn jon" or to go to Sedona for "Vision" training because you don't openly accept what others have seen before you.

"Change is good!"

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 11:22 pm:

I guess its time for dahn to push their agenda on how great their organization is to members of this board. If it is so great why is there such a high turnover of members? Many members leave soon after they arrive because they have their B.S. meters functioning. Other members are suckered into paying for expensive programs they don't need. Members don't get it? They got it and that is why they left. The longer you stay the more dirt you see. It is not a very moral business. It is a business of making money for Lee. Lee is not doing this for the betterment of society, he is getting rich. He must feel self important because he runs a successful business which preys on needy people. The research has been done and it is on this website for all to see. He has members doing 103 bows. The masters bow to Lee and probably the 103 companies he owns. They believe he is god. He is not. No amount of Christian bashing by his masters will change this. This organization aligns itself with the Bhuddists in Korea so they can go against the Christians. The members are told to connect to the most purest form of energy. They mean Lee's and you will find this out as you get closer to being a master. The positive aspects are exercise, friendships (temporary as long as you are a member, then you no longer exist),breathing,group environment, but individual manipulation to sign for expensive courses.

I chose to devote my life and when I discovered the real truth about them I left, as have many others before me. They are never mentioned. Are you curious about those who came before you? Dahn has been in America for at least ten years. In such a long period of time they should have been alot bigger and more popular if they were truly a moral organization. You are led to believe you are on a noble mission but in reality you are being fooled into giving your life to a false prophet. Lee does not care about you only what you can do for him. If he is so enlightened expalin why his ego is so big. He has his name on everything. He would have you believe that before he arrived the world stopped spinning. How will he reintroduce peace? He aligns himself with the U.N. which is one of the deadliest organizations in the world. Read up on how many people they are responsible for killing with their politics. The number approaches 1 million. I believe he is trying to get closer to communism, which has been proven not to work.

Dahn is a business. Conservatively it brings in approximately $20,000 per center. It is a cash business.It has bills to pay. These bills do not include fair pay for workers,health insurance or benefits of any kind. He of course gets to keep expensive cars and homes, while the masters must give up all possessions and live in group homes to keep them dependant on the organization. I read on another site about masters in Korea being required to carry Dahn credit cards to charge all expenses to make Dahn even richer. While I was there a headmaster earned $400 per month and a regular master earned $200 per month. American masters earned $22,000 per year. If you think you can live on this without being dependant on them you are kidding yourself.

When the members are gone there are no more smiles. The masters are alone with their thoughts. Are they truly happy? I don't think so because they are reminded in order to be truly happy they must lose all thoughts and focus on the vision. Not family, friends, loved ones, hobbies or leisure activities.They will struggle to make the monthly vision or be held accountable. How many masters are still friends with members after they are transferred? It is not a business of making friends. Lee has these poor masters believing they are serving some higher purpose. The higher purpose is to make him rich and feed his ego.

Please do your research on this company. Keep your eyes open and watch them in action. The truth will set you free.

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 11:28 pm:

By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist
Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

The group/leader is always right.

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.

Don't be na�ve, develop a good BS Detector.
You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.

The Ross Institute
email: info@rickross.com URL: http://www.rickross.com

Copyright � Rick Ross

By Anonymous on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 04:59 am:

Hopeful,
You are scary, really scary. You sound more like you are trying to convince yourself of the ideas you are spouting. I could not even get through you entire entry it was the same old beliefs that you hear in a Dahn Center, I am losing my patience with you, leave us alone, we realized on our own that Dahn is not healthy, you are trying to convince us otherwise, we have heard it all before stop. Good for you for doing research but you are not protecting yourself you are trying to tell us that we are wrong.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 05:58 am:

If you do not wish to visit Rick Ross perhaps you have time to read about what Margaret Singer had to say in her book Cults in our Midst.

Destructive Cult

What are the characteristics of a destructive "cult" or group?

Margaret Singer, clinical psychologist and once Professor of Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley was the preeminent cult expert of the 20th Century. She counseled and/or interviewed thousands of people affected by controversial groups often called "cults." Dr. Singer offered meaningful definitions of unsafe groups or "cults" in her book Cults in our Midst.

According to Singer, unsafe groups or cults can generally be defined by three factors:

The origin of the group and role of the leader.

The power structure, or relationship between the leader[s] and the followers.

The use of a coordinated program of persuasion, which is called thought reform [or more commonly, 'brainwashing'"].

What typifies an unsafe group or "cult's" leadership and structure?

Again, a good working understanding has been provided by Margaret Singer: "In most cases, there is one person, typically the founder at the top...decision making centers in him or her." Illustrating the structure Singer says, "imagine an inverted T. The leader is alone at the top and the followers are all at the bottom". There is little if any accountability and as Singer says, "the overriding philosophy...is that the ends justify the means, a view that allows [such groups] to establish their own brand of morality, outside normal society bounds".

What specifically would define a group or "cult" as unsafe?

Unsafe groups or "cults" often abuse and exploit their members. This abuse may occur in the areas of finances, physical labor, child abuse and neglect, medical neglect, sexual exploitation and/or psychological and emotional abuse.

No. Isolation can often be less obvious. Many destructive groups create isolation through their control of a member's associations with outside society. The group members may be discouraged from associating with outsiders, especially those who express a negative attitude about the group and its leader(s). Isolation can also be fostered by a kind of hyper-activity that allows little time for family, outside interests or friendships.

By HealerNoMore on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 10:17 am:

You have seen the evidence.

Can it get any clearer?

Dahn is a CULT!

They will take your money and your life.

You have been warned--proceed with caution!!!

By Anonymous on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 10:41 am:

EXACTLY, Healer No More. I don't see what the question is, why is hopeful talking as though we are off kilter.

By Laila on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 12:18 pm:

Story told to me first -hand by a friend of mine: She was hired to work as a licensed massage therapist at our Dahn center. The year she worked there she made $11,000, though they had promised her a good salary. She had to pay her own rent in a room they found for her. She had a one-hour bus commute to and from work, and was working a 12-14 hour day at the center. When she was not busy giving massages she was under orders from a much younger master-in-training from Korea who constantly had her cleaning rooms and other menial tasks. Because of her long commute, she was getting even less sleep than the Dahn masters, and was constantly fighting exhaustion. During the day she had no official break time, and would have to ask permission just to go outside and sit in the sun for a few minutes. This was a gifted and devoted healer, who did her best to keep up with the program, because she believed in Dahn Hak and the goals of the organization. She had paid a lot of money to a Dahn-sponsered school for massage therapy, yet was told that she still needed to go to Healer's School in Sedona and pay another $10,000, or she would not really be considered a Healer. She was young and single, and being groomed for Master's training. Her one day off a week was barely enough to get all of her maintenance chores done. She had to beg for time off to go and visit her family and boyfriend who lived a ways away from the center. When she complained to the Head Master, she was told very severely that she needed to stop thinking only about herself. But the thing that she tried to tell me which I just could not understand, was that none of the masters with whom she worked ever spoke to her. It was as if she was banned from their company because she was not a master, yet, she wasn't a member of the center, therefore she received none of the care and attention reserved for the paying members. When she came back from the first part of Healer's School she was all full of love and joy,as we all were, and the Dahn Master's still wouldn't even speak to her! She never received any hugs, smiles or warmth of any kind from any of them. When she tried to tell me about this, I admit that I somehow thought that she was misinterpreting things. I just couldn't imagine my warm, loving masters and Head Master behaving toward anyone that way. This beautiful, vibrant, loving young woman tried her best to live up to her own high ideal of a loving, healing community, but found herself in a setting totally barren of even the most basic civility. One day she just left the center and never came back. I have tried to contact her to apologize for not understanding what she was trying to tell me about the masters, but she has an unlisted number. I don't blame her. I'm sure she doesn't want any contact from current members because, like "Hopeful", they just won't get it. There are two Dahn Worlds, one heavenly, one just plain nasty.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 10:11 pm:

Sorry Hopeful, but your yin yang explanation is the worst rationalization I ever heard for not taking the painful experiences of others as a serious sign of a destructive and narcissistic leader. I have to wonder if you aren't a Dahn business partner, or a wannabe business partner, or maybe just too far gone to evaluate this group clearly.

Thank you to the person who posted the signs of a cult. I don't see how anyone can miss the signs that at the master level, Dahn is a cult, and at the member level, people are getting sucked in by the "love" and the spiritual feelings and the relaxing massages and healthy work-out, manipulated to spend all their money and do endless volunteer work, to create more master slaves.

Laila, thanks, again, for sharing your experiences. I think you're right that she probably doesn't want anything more to do with Dahn. It's great that she left though before she became a master. I hope she contacted the authorities in charge of massage therapy schools in that area and wage and hour authorities. I really think that the only way people will see the exploitation and abuses is if a large number of complaints go on public record.

To people like Hopeful, it's a matter of numbers, and if it seems like few are unhappy relative to the number of people praising Dahn, then Dahn must be okay, even though a woman was killed on one of their non-healing, non-healthy, non-enlightened, insensitive, ignorant overly extreme endurance trainings.

To the person who said she or he was assaulted, what happened, and how is it Dahn's fault?

By poppy on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 08:42 am:

Hopeful is so annoying, I do appeciate other points of view but what Hopeful says is still so aggitating.

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 09:39 am:

Thank You

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 09:41 am:

Pleaee be patient with hopeful; most of us have walked in his shoes. Even believing posts on Rick Ross etc. but somehow wanting to believe so much in the dream and vision that the End Justifies the Means.: telling ourselves that Julia Searls death was her decision; that the death of the body means nothing bla, bla, bla.
At the same time not wanting to believe what we were seeing with our own eyes; could not be wrong, all groups are like this; all families have problems, they are human. Why am I asking them to be perfect? They care so much about saving humanity.
Am I correct Hopeful?

By poppy on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 09:49 am:

When I was in Hopeful's shoes I was not on this website and I was also in Hopeful's shoes for only one month and not to the extreme measure, I always knew something was wrong. Basically, I was never in the exact same situation as Hopeful, I would never defend Dahn the way Hopeful does. I have never been on rick Ross websites, I despise Dahn for my own reasons.

By anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 09:58 am:

Thank you all for your sharing - I am new to this website thanks to an ex-Dahn friend, but not new to Dahn. I left Dahn over a year ago - believe me, I spent my share of $ and lots of time volunteering there, well over 25K I imagine - I can relate to everything said in this site - I did all the trainings except NHL and Master training - My BS meter went off when I told my master that I could not make it to NHL course and I felt her get very angry and anxious with me. I could feel her energy change - It was like in Star Wars (a turn to the dark side - I could feel it - it was an awful feeling) A true Master is patient, kind, understanding... That was it for me... I had drank the kool-aide and believe me I shared the vision BUT the light bulb went off FINALLY - I realized that they were slowly but stripping me of my free will. I firmly believe that we are spiritual beings in a physical body and God gave us the greatest gift of free will /choice. The minute you become a master in Dahn you are stripped of every ounce of free will and are "trained/brainwashed" not to question. There are a million ways to the truth this is just not the way for me. I told my Master that I did not believe that I would have to leave my family (including a young child) to be a Master, that it just logically/spiritually did not make sense. - It really confounded the Master - The Master told me that eventually I would see why.

Their vision has been overrun by their method and has become a monster. I now look at all this and question the vision - if they truely want to "save" the Earth then why is the money not going to eco friendly centers, planting trees, doing community service. I truely believe that in order to heal the world you have to be in the "real" world with real relationships interacting with the average person doing your healing in and around those of all abilities/socio economic levels to make a difference. I see Dahn as an isolationist organization once you are inside of it - you have NO time for any outside interaction -they will strip you of everything - EVERYTHING.

Remember the Buddha who found enlightenment in the middle way.

I pray for everyone in the organization, I believe that they have been stripped of their free will, I have compassion for them and understand, but thankfully I was able to make a choice to get out before I believe I would have been too far gone. Again, they made their choices to be there, and I can not judge them, I just can not honestly tell you that they are capable of making choices any more and that is the most disturbing part of all of it.

Please be careful if you are in the organization and remember that you have free will and that you have a choice - when you are not given a choice or threatened of your soul's death (which is impossible in my opinion) then run - run away.

You'll find so many contradictions in the teachings and their actions if you just look hard enough.

love and light !

By poppy on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 11:04 am:

I wish the best to Ben J. I heard he got himself out

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 11:07 am:

I understand everyones frustration with me and let me start by saying (again), I believe the death of the woman in training is /was a terrible tragedy and i never said anything of the sort of "its just the physical body." I have read the rick site many months ago and was...surprised but not to any extent to stop me (please dont judge) When I found this site a few weeks ago this is the thread that has caused me to look deeply, within myself, others experiences and the organization.
Let me tell you about my life. I am to go to adavanced healer school in June, and still I admit am looking forward to it because I loved basic soooo much. I have had a PROFOUND experience on my own during my morning meditation that has casued me without going into the details it was I believe my enlightenment I had a complete sense of oneness and peace and I had a feeling that everything was perfect and everything can only be perfect and to never worry , thats it in a nutshell. I knew at that moment I wanted to be sabumnim because i felt with the spiritual life I have lead since the age of 12 there was nothing more important than this work. I have taken a leave from my job and have begun working at the center and teaching regular classes. I love it, I really felt like I was on my way and one day as I just for wheatever reason googled Ilchi I came across this. Yes I am married I have two kids, very young. When I shared my meditation experience with my wife it was her who suggested I go through with it and that was all I needed to hear. I was aware of the difficulties this would present but I had/have to try. I was always under the impression because I was married with kids I couldnt go on to master level, but I was apparently wrong my master told me (whom I love dearly please dont judge) circustances are not requirement for masters more important is your mind and your reasons why you want to be sabumnim. I have/had full support from my family and they have allsaid I have changed and grown so much for the better, sure it was expensive and everything but the value for me is priceless.
So now here I am working pretty close to full time at the center, days off I take care of my kids and I am loving it! It scare me a little too because I wonder if this is going to work out, thats why I havent quit my job yet, I wanted to test the waters first. But I love it.
But guess what? Just last week I discovered my wife is in love with another man. You have to believe me too when I say that I am a very good husband and father and I spend all of my free time and yes I have free time with my wife and kkids. So...now it seems my life has turned upside down and the 2 things I hold so close to me, my wife, and my practice, I am finding out that what I once thought was real and true and beautiful may not really be so. This has been a difficult week for me on so many levels, yet the ONLY thing that has gotten me through it is when I am at the center. Everything is fine when I am there. I love it. Its not that I dont believe you guys its just such a different experience for me and I think if it wern't for dahn, when I found out the truth about my wife I would have reacted very diffrently, ie drinking, leaving and being destructive in my behavior.
I have spoken to my master about these issues i have discovered and of course she has explained any issue to me as she sees it, (I didnt expect anything else)she also said that by visiting these sites is a waste of my energy and will weigh heavily on my brain and that i should remain positive about my growth and my training, I have enough on my plate as it is, but I cant seem to stay away long enough, I want to see what others say, so thats why i visit, thats why I post. When I am away from the center i feel like I am not doing enough and I get down about my relationship with my wife but at the center, man I end up feeling great!
What I have discovered is my wife says this has happened because I have grown so much and I seem different, but at the same time she says she doesnt want me to stop because she sees how much joy it has brought me and she knows I have always wanted to lead a very spiritual life. We have decided to work it out and go to therapy. I am still "here" and I want to make it from both ends my master has told me that however i want to live if I became a master it is my choice, that i dont have to live with other masters and I dont have to move around as some do. Being a master is all about choice. I can choose whatever works best for me, and if I want to utilize some talent I have other than running a center i can do that too. So...thats it in a nutshell. This is who I am , where I am at, and what my life has been like since a week or two before I first discovered this website. Sorry so long.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 11:26 am:

I agree, if Dahn is helping you through your tough times with your wife then I don't blame you. I guess I could say Dahn helped me through tough times also. What happens is meant to be, I can tell that you will do what is best for yourself. Good luck and I do see why you are doing all that makes you feel better, I can't imagine how hurt you must be.

By StillaHealer on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 11:36 am:

Dear Hopeful,
I send you all my love support, prayers and good wishes. Yes, I do know what a relief it is to get to the center when things just seem to be crazy around you. Since leaving over a year ago I have discovered that I was avoiding issues in my marriage. I am sure you have heard that affairs are just a symptom of some other problem; like not feeling important, smart or beautiful.
I hope you can save your marriage especially for the children.
Keep posting and sharing who you are.
The Universe uses many ways to "Kick us up the side of the Head"
Much love as you travel this journey.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 01:28 pm:

really Ben left. He seemed so into it. Its been a long time.

By partofstillahealersstarbucks club a.k.a as anonymous before on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 01:42 pm:

Dear hopeful, I send you all the best, I understand you are going through a very difficult time. I just want you to know from my own experience with family and Dahn and becoming a Master... If you manage to be a master and keep your family and don't get shuttled to another center - it would be the first such time that I have heard of that in the organization. They kept me believing that until I got through Prof. Healer school and several months/levels on, and then they started to change the tune...(I was there for over 2 years) They made me believe it was possible only to keep me coming and then slowly but surely the tune changed. I was given very little notice or information about any of the programs I was going to, but let's just say in the last 6 months they wanted me going to Sedona atleast 4 times for several days at a time for how much money I don't care to recall.
I'd say a good portion of what Dahn does is good, but it's the other "dark side" that greatly outweighed that, that in the end changed my mind. They just kept on being very manipulative, secretive, and in the end they flat out lied to me and others. They would play one member/healer against the other to get more money or coerce us into doing something. I denied it was a cult for a long time, but the more I read about cults and mind reform, and brain washing, the more I see the similarities with my experience there. You are wise to stand back and look at the other options and listen to our experiences. I least I did learn how to share from my experience at Dahn. I am a well educated person (graduate degrees with a very successful career), and at one point I was very embarrassed that I got so caught up in it, but I am chalking it up to experience and now I believe I am more aware with my eyes more open. There are other ways to get to the truth, and I am still on my path of being a healer and light for this Earth, just not with Dahn. Think of all the great Masters, for example Jesus and the Buddha - they did not require vast amounts of money for their teachings, wealth, demand strict communal living, demanding of leaving family and friends - they were IN the world with the everyday people. Dahn is not for me that's all...
I don't think being manipulated, coerced subversively, stripped of you free will, and of your family and friends on the outside is the way to go, but it was my decision (most importantly they are NOT upfront with you - they lure you in for months on one pretense and wham it's different when you actually get to the real point.) You definitely have your choice/decisions to make just remember that you always have a choice even though it is hard to see it at times. I do not want to stand in judgementof you as I do not believe in judging others. So take my words here as a sharing of my experience, and you make your own decision based upon what you read.
We all have our path's to walk on this Earth, I wish you nothing but love and light on yours.
Remember many of us here are ex-Dahn members, and we still share a vision of healing-so continue to visit us.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 02:32 pm:

Dahn is created to train members to become sabumnims. Healer school is created to breed sabumnims. Sabumnim training is where you are told to create sabumnims. Then you go to the meeting and you see yourself as a byproduct of the system. sorry for my broken english. They plan out at meeting who can become sabumnim and suggest what action to take. That is where you were just part of a plan. You can only see this if yours eyes are open. If your not you just follow. Thats is its focus. Buy healer school, you can buy mastership. Next year healer school will be called something else. Regular dahn classes are now called brainresperation. In reality no one is practicing brainresperation. In fact its just a theory that they are selling. No master is diligently practicing it. They don't have the time.
The other thing is most people go to dahn to enhance there life. lets say physical health and or there own career. Later when they take progams and they ask you to write down your goals, everyone by the end is writing how many people they bring to dahn and where they can teach it. Why not use your feeling good to promote yourself. This is another concept in dahn that is shunned on. do for the vision not for you. If you remain longer what you belive is wrong slowly you believe is right. By this time your part of the herd. It is all so interesting. If one can keep the feeling of great especially as member, you know when you went to sedona the first time and met members of others centers. You just felt great. If you can keep this feeling and remain in dahn just as you wish than it would be great. Use it but don't get caught in the bussines of a master salesman..

By poppy on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 04:15 am:

Anonymous up there, you know Ben. I wonder if we are speaking of the same Ben. He went to Healer school last October with Mike. He was so into it, he had only been a member for a few months then flew off to healer school.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 08:17 am:

Hopeful,
I hope you are doing well today. I want to let you know that I hope your day is full of peace and confidence.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 05:34 pm:

different Ben. He's been in it long time. maybe master or healer nim

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 09:52 pm:

Hopeful, I feel for you after hearing your situation with your family possibly breaking up. I appreciate your honesty and openness about what's going on in your personal life. I found it refreshing.

I want to suggest to you that you focus on your children at this time and what they need from their father (and mother, and family). You say you love Dahn, but Dahn does not love your beloved children and they will suck you away from them, especially if you become a master.

The way I see it, you have two serious challenges to deal with right now (please forgive my directness).

1. Your wife has been pulling away from you and you didn't see it coming.

2. You are moving deeper into a money-sucking cult, and you can't see it coming.

Sounds like Dahn is like a drug for you at this time, anesthetizing. You said you feel great there, even during this time, with your wife wanting to break up the family. I think it's appropriate for you not to feel great right now. Feel bad. Feel sad. Feel confused. Feel angry, too. It's okay; it's perfectly okay. These feelings can help direct you to the source of your difficulties.

I think you're seeing just two alternatives when there are many. You describe either drinking a lot (I don't know if you have/had a drinking problem or not) and falling apart in other ways or pursuing Dahn. I'm glad you'll be seeing a therapist. I hope you find a good marriage counselor. At one point, your wife checked out emotionally. Why?

I still think it's possible that your growing attachment to Dahn has taken something away from your relationship and interaction with your wife. I can't know if that is true, too little information to go on, but it would be a typical scenario when a cult is involved.

I have recently heard even more tales of woe about Ilchi Lee that confirm what many are saying here -- this is a very damaging exploitive cult, and I think it should be shunned. Supporting this organization helps it to continue to damage masters.

I see no enlightenment at the end of the Dahn rainbow, just a pot of gold for Ilchi Lee and his business partners and a bunch of mindless slaves working themselves sick to not just meet but to exceed the monthly "visions" -- "double-speak" for making and borrowing money for Lee to open more centers. Inappropriate sexual conduct, especially at the top, should not be ruled out.

I do wish you the best in your decisions, Hopeful. The last thing you need is to feel talked into or out of anything, including Dahn, by the people here. It has be your choice.

I hope you stay with us (and put up with us)here.
Suziecue

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 09:56 pm:

Just to clarify, when I said "mindless" slaves, that was not to imply that they are not sincerely devoted to what they believe is a noble cause.

Suziecue

By Still a Healer on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 05:31 am:

Suziecue;

Been wondering where you have been;knew you would be able to clearly address what appears to be a serious marriage issue and why Dahn felt so good to him.

Thanks again; will we hear more about the "tales of woe about Ilchi Lee"?

By Andrew Nevis on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 06:46 am:

How does one track where Dahn has gone? Check for the ruined finances and families. We will hear a lot more tales of woe about Ilchi Lee.
Have a feeling that this is the year that Dahn is going to hate. A lot more facts will come out with pictures, video and testimonials, all very compelling on the negative side of this business organization.
Am curious about one of Lee's friends. Can anyone answer a question about Donald Walsch, (CWg) involvement with Lee? Noticed the Canadian dahn website said that since Walsch's organization looks after the homeless, dahn doesn't need to do outreach. What's the story here?

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 07:16 am:

well put SuzieCue. I agree with all that you say. Hopeful I wish you well.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 12:04 pm:

Yes, I'm sure you'll hear more, soon. You can count on this, though, that some people will still defend the leader. He will be the misunderstood, the maligned, the persecuted (and hopefully prosecuted someday) hero, conspired against by apostate, unenlightened, shameful former masters who were too weak to tolerate getting stuck one more time by that proverbial needle point that they shared with Ilchi Lee alone. Thanks to the Internet, at least people can easily share their experiences to warn other people.
Suziecue

By Still a healer on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 12:32 pm:

I got an idea. How about all of us bowing for the Truth to be revealed as soon as possible?

Don't laugh; it is a wonderful exercise

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 01:59 pm:

Um...er, let's not.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 02:37 pm:

Reply to Anonymous on (May 16 3:41)
What I am about to share is still very painful for me. I was “Hopeful” just several months ago. I believed in the Healer’s Creed-”Prayer of Peace”---…I was going to quote it as a preface to my experience but now the words seem so meaningless. I believe in our Oneness thru our Divinity within. I healed myself, family and aligned my vision with Dahn’s vision to create a lasting peace on earth. I quit my full-time job to take up this new vision full-time.

I am a former Myungsanim. I have received several accolades and awards for my hard work and dedication from the Dahn organization. Even though this is a painful story for me, I strongly believe the story must be told. There were several warning signs but I continued to believe and hope despite the hypocrisies, much of which has been shared and outlined on this site. It is my intention that thru my sharing others will come forward and we can help each other heal. I didn’t know why this particular incident had to happen to me just a few months ago but after discovering this site and reading all of your sharings (including Hopeful, ----sending you much love) I now know why.

Early in the morning, I received a call from a woman who had a horrible experience with the master of the center who performed the energy check up just the day before. She went on to describe to me for several minutes about the master’s “high sales” approach, his way of demeaning her, how he glared at her for several minutes just because she could not remember several of the exercises he showed to her. She went on to describe how she felt he pretended not to know English a key points of the discussion, i.e. when he asked her what she did for a living, she replied paperwork. He looked at her pretending not to understand the word paperwork, but when she said she was an accountant. He not only could repeat the word but also understood the meaning. I reiterated this entire conversation plus a few additional comments of hers to the master, and he stared at me and said. “You allowed her take your energy”. I told him I did not agree, and he replied to me that she was a stressed out women V.P. of her own company and that she was a “liar”.

By Midday, he continued his diatribe with another employee at the center. He shouted at her and told her not to talk to him from the 6th chakra and continued to berate her for several minutes before she finally stated I don’t have to take this anymore and she walked out of the center. Over lunch, he asked me “why does HE have so much anger”. I told him that he can only answer that question for himself and I see that he also provokes people. He told me that it was my responsibility to tell the staff it was ok for him to have arguments with them. He told me to tell them 4 times this can happen. I repeated back to him, that you want me to take responsibility for telling the staff(3 healers working part/full time) that it’s ok for you to berate them. He said yes. I did not agree.
Later in the afternoon he called me a liar for not making the correct copies. I told him he wrote 250 copies on a pc. Of paper(he decided to write all my duties on a pc. paper upon my arrival at the center. He said he did not. He claimed he wrote down 2500 copies, my witness disagreed and he left the center in a huff.

Another discussion began upon his return to the center. The discussion was over a member who was not attending class regularly and I took the initiative to contact because he was scheduled to participate in the upcoming IA workshop.

Several minutes into the discussion, the master became enraged with anger he said I had no responsibility to members several times and then, told me I’ll never be a manager. I told him I did not want to be a manager and did not agree. I reminded him that I took the initiative to contact the member not attending class-- and just the day before he thanked me for my big heart and loving members so. He shouted at me to “SHOUT UP, JUST SHOUT UP”. I asked him not to raise his voice at me and then he SCREAMED you are nothing but a Black Slave, I asked what did you call me, he shouted you are nothing but a black slave, your daughter (her name) and son are black slaves too. He bumped me hard with his chest and I defended my self by pushing him away. He came after me with more swings and a fight ensued as I defended the blows for several minutes. Another employee had to separate us. I tried to “return to my dahn jon” as I walked a way from him. He chased me and called me a “gangsta thug and repeated the racial slurs against my children. I tried to walk away, because he was shouting so loudly in my face, “…come on and hit me you gangsta thug.” He snatched papers from my hand all while yelling hit me, hit me. He bumped me exactly in the same fashion with his chest and I called to the other employee for help-- to call the police. He taunted me further, by claiming I hit him and for her to call the police on me. I called 9-1-1. The police arrived shortly after I called the Regional Director. I told the Regional I was giving her a call out of courtesy because I held respect for her. I told her I have been a part of Dahn short of 3 years, I worked very well with several master including herself and I never had any problems. I told her about the argument with the master-- how he hit me, called me and my kids Black Slaves, & Gangsta thugs, and that I defended myself against his physical attacks.

I told her I was not going to call the police the first time, however, when he hit me the second time. I called the police. She stated, without being a witness to this incident, oh He doesn’t speak English very well. I told her come on you know he has a problem, (because she was aware of several other incidents with other employees involving his fits of rage & anger )

I was visited at my home by two former masters. One tried to block my path to the car-- stating she wanted to talk to me first before I left for the hospital. I did not speak.

Later in the afternoon he called me a liar for not making the correct copies. I told him he wrote 250 copies on a pc. Of paper(he decided to write all my duties on a pc. paper upon my arrival at the center. He said he did not. He claimed he wrote down 2500 copies, my witness disagreed and he left the center in a huff.

Another discussion began upon his return to the center. The discussion was over a member who was not attending class regularly and I took the initiative to contact because he was scheduled to participate in the upcoming IA workshop.

Several minutes into the discussion, the master became enraged with anger he said I had no responsibility to members several times and then, told me I’ll never be a manager. I told him I did not want to be a manager and did not agree. I reminded him that I took the initiative to contact the member not attending class-- and just the day before he thanked me for my big heart and loving members so. He shouted at me to “SHOUT UP, JUST SHOUT UP”. I asked him not to raise his voice at me and then he SCREAMED you are nothing but a Black Slave, I asked what did you call me, he shouted you are nothing but a black slave, your daughter (her name) and son are black slaves too. He bumped me hard with his chest and I defended my self by pushing him away. He came after me with more swings and a fight ensued as I defended the blows for several minutes. Another employee had to separate us. I tried to “return to my dahn jon” as I walked a way from him. He chased me and called me a “gangsta thug and repeated the racial slurs against my children. I tried to walk away, because he was shouting so loudly in my face, “…come on and hit me you gangsta thug.” He snatched papers from my hand all while yelling hit me, hit me. He bumped me exactly in the same fashion with his chest and I called to the other employee for help-- to call the police. He taunted me further, by claiming I hit him and for her to call the police on me. I called 9-1-1. The police arrived shortly after I called the Regional Director. I told the Regional I was giving her a call out of courtesy because I held respect for her. I told her I have been a part of Dahn short of 3 years, I worked very well with several master including herself and I never had any problems. I told her about the argument with the master-- how he hit me, called me and my kids Black Slaves, & Gangsta thugs, and that I defended myself against his physical attacks.

I told her I was not going to call the police the first time, however, when he hit me the second time. I called the police. She stated, without being a witness to this incident, "Oh he doesn’t speak English very well." I told her come on you know he has a problem, (because she was aware of several other incidents with other employees involving his fits of rage & anger)

I was visited at my home by two former masters. One tried to block my path to the car-- stating she wanted to talk to me first before I left for thI suffered a scratch to the neck, several bruises and a hemiatoma to my hand. The master was left in the center for several days and later transferred to another center where he is still employed.

I received several phone calls from two female masters, apologizing for him, stating "he doesn’t speak very good English. He doesn’t remember what he said. Please don’t go to your family, I know how to help you through this with healing."

I have retained counsel and I have decided to proceed with a lawsuit. I want this case to go on public record.

Thanks for allowing me to share my story. The hardest part was in the telling of the story, but the best part is in the sharing. I have helped so many and so have you. Thank you.

Love & Healing

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 04:17 pm:

how come there was a repeat in your story, like you pasted it twice...just curious.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 07:02 pm:

It was not my intention to "post" in duplicate. I apologize. Just speaking from the heart and not "technically" in the mind, Ooops!

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 10:42 pm:

What a terrible experience. Is it possible that this master had a nervous breakdown from the stress, or does he have some other emotional problems that have nothing to do with Dahn, like anger management problems? Obviously Dahn didn't help him to become peaceful, but just wondering why didn't just see this as one person acting badly? Why did this make you question Dahn in general?

By Anonymous on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:13 am:

Why does she question Dahn in general? Was the master fired, let go or removed from working with the public? No, he was not, Dahn moved him to another center where he's causing more problems.
What major religious organization found moving problems around doesn't work?
Are there only a few problems in the dahn group? Or have other ex-dahn members filed complaints with Attorney-Generals in various states? They have, but that doesn't get much press.
Dahn actions concerning that now ex-member is not what one expects of an self-proclaimed `ethical' organization that sells enlightenment.

By poppy on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 04:56 am:

This maniac should have been fired and arrested immediately. If it were at any other "ethical" company he would have been. Not only that but the "higher ups" were making excuses and lying for him. I am sure they know full well he can speak English. The worst part is, is that they stood up for him and defended him and made excuses for him, this organization is such a joke. Even the thought of yelling the words gangsta thug or black slave in a Dahn center is so contradictory, which Dahn is anyway. I ams orry that happened to you annon. I am so happy to hear there is a lawsuit, finally.

By Anonymous on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:39 am:

I wonder too if the master had a habit of violent behavior before or if it was a sudden breakdown. Calling someome a slave when he himself is so obviously a slave to Dahn makes it sound like he was "projecting" his own feelings onto Anonymous and beating up himself while hitting the victim. If you don't mind, Anonymous victim, are you Black? Are you a woman? (not that it makes it okay if you're a man, but it would show the further insanity of the master's behavior if you are a woman). It would be really weird if he was calling someone a black slave who wasn't even black. If you are black, then it's still a viscious thing to say, don't get me wrong here, but it would be insane if you aren't.

I have to suspect that they (Dahn) may have created or brought out the violence in this master in the first place. (Maybe that's why they don't want to prosecute him or fire him for his actions.) Masters are supposed to be abstinent for years, form no close relationships, break away from families, total devotion to making money for Dahn. There is nothing mentally healthy or peaceful in that formula for global peace. The dependency and the loneliness can become unbearable, I would think. So much for cultivating peace in the world. This cult could have turned an otherwise peaceful man into a violent man. I am very happy you're taking this to court, anonymous (#???). Maybe the truth about the cause of the master's psychological state will come out too. (Do you know if he was always an a==hole or did he have a sudden breakdown?)
Suziecue

By Stillahealer on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:30 pm:

Many of them are coming apart at the seams. Inadequate food, rest, extreme pressure to perform; this behavour does not surprise me. I know of a master who was so verbally abusive to one of the sub-contractors; he stood over him all day and directed him with such pressure to complete the project. This hard working immigrant said he would not work for him ever again. Another masters I know for sure screms at workers if they do not respond to his calls immediately. Very very verbally abusive.
The wheels are falling off as we speak. As Reciprocity said some time ago the laws of Karma will get them.

By HealerNoMore on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 05:25 pm:

The abusive masters behavior was inexcusable. They are under extreme pressure to produce results. I have pity on them as they are not aware they are being used in such a bad way.

When we did not make the monthly vision(quota) given to us there was alot of tension and the next month we had to hand out more flyers and try and recruit even more new members. Believe me when I tell you that these masters will go out each day at 5am and hand out flyers and come back to the center and teach class at 7am. They will do this 7 days per week to reach their vision(quota).

If you try and have an intelligent conversation on how american businesses get successful you will be put down and lectured on the proper use of energy. I guess Bill Gates, JP Morgan, Donald Trump,Ford,Rockefeller,etc. never got that lecture. If Lee did not teach it to them then it can't be right.

The masters are breaking at the seams. I have seen it and experienced it firsthand. I have seen a headmaster cry because when faced with a dose of reality it is too much to handle. It broke my heart. The world of dahn is filled with escapism. Everything is simple as long as you make your quota. If the outside world dares to rear its ugly head there is trouble. This is why masters get physically sick. Some must go home to Korea and get treatment, others go to Sedona or even CGI. It is truly a sad life.

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 12:56 am:

There is a Dahn related "yoga studio" opening in Portland, Oregon. It will be linked to existing
"breath respiration yoga" centers in Oregon. See www.BRyoga.com

This center is to be in a very visible location, sharing a building with the DMV offices downtown on Sixth (SW sixth, I think), and many TriMet busses pass by every day. It is not yet open, they are still painting the inside of it.

After researching BR, Dahn, and Mr. Lee, I'm upset that they are opening a center in Portland--a place where people tend to expect the best from others...if you have any interest at all in stopping this, well, now you know what is going on.

By confused on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 01:12 pm:

I have been involved with dahn since the fall of last year. I am considering registering for Healer at a cost of 10,000. It is a big chunk of money but I have expereinced a significant improvement physically, emotionally and spiritually practicing Dahn. Can I get some feedback from people who have been to healer school. Is any "yoga" training worth that much money? Also, has anyone been a sabumnim and quit? Help!

By confused on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 01:23 pm:

RE: healer school
I heard a rumour that not everyone pays 10,000 for healer school. Some people are allowed to attend for free. Anyone know anything about the truth of the rumour?

P.s. I will make my decision about registering for healer school within the next week so please give me feedback.

By stillahealer on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 02:03 pm:

I attended Healer School. At the time I was very involved in Dahn and believed it had honest intentions. Three other people from our center all attended that particular session. My headmaster lied to me and told me that all of the others had paid the $10,000.00 in advance. It did not matter to me at the time; just wondered why he had to lie about it. One of the others paid in installments. All of us did pay the $10,000.00 though.

As in all groups there are a few "know it alls" who ask lots of questions just to hear themselves talk. It is very regimented and not much free time.
For the longest time I believed it was worth it.
Remember you are watched all the time and reports are made back and forth to your center about your participation, cooperation etc. ANYTHING YOU SAY OR DO is reported.
My friends and I laughed a lot; just being away from family and obligations was fun; most of the time I was very uncomfortable; sitting for hours, hiking, eating in a tent. I realize they have improved the facilities; I guess so at $10K a pop. I used to think it was wierd that they had a basket by the tea bags to make a donation. They just have their hand out all the time; no matter how much you have spent or contributed; just never ever enough.
Personally I would take that $10K and think about how better to use it to help humanity or more importantly yourself.

There are many Myungsas here who have quit; not sure about sabumnin.
In retrospect what I really liked was the companionship and deep friendships I formed with my fellow travellers. About 80% of the time was wasted and 20% useful. They could have done the training at the centers at a much lower cost.
Now that I know the truth about how they operate I regret giving them a penny.

After one of their 7 day sessions and I returned to work; I got off my elevator and did not remember which way to walk. Call that disassociation I guess. This is a result of restricted diet, lack of sleep and over exercising. I must tell you though that all of us came back telling everyone how wonderful it was and urging others to go. (brainwashing)
Each time I arrived at Phoenix airport I felt a sense of relief. My husband always had a great meal prepared with some good wine.

On the brighter side I have made some wonderful friendships.

By still a healer on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 02:08 pm:

One more thing;

You are probably feeling as good physically, spiritually or emotionally as you will ever feel again while you practice Dahn. You have seen and felt the best they have to offer.
Nobody goes free; someone is paying for it either other members or even the masters themselves.

Think long and hard and encourage your fellow pre-healers to visit this site.

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 02:48 pm:

Confused, read all the messages on this board; if you're still confused after reading, I'll be confused.

By Stillahealer on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 03:01 pm:

Confused on further thinking about your question; are you sure you are sincere in your wanting to know? Or are you trying to find out who we are?

If any of the Dahn organization wants to know who we are or what we think; I suggest they send out a questionaire asking for our opinions and recommendations. They have our contact information.
However if you are sincere in your questions, ask yourself if your have heard these comments before?

You are such a strong Healer.

You are looking so Bright.

The members love you and your strong energy.

Just make a decision.
While there is a Will there is a Way.

No action No Creation.

Grand Master Lee is very happy when he sees lots of healers coming to Sedona.

Do the masters ever play Good cop Bad Cop? One saying they know you can not affort it, the other urging you to overcome your obstacles
Or one saying you are not ready for Healer School; your energy is not strong enough, the other pushing you more and more to make the correct decision.

By Sifu on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 03:46 pm:

$10K a pop! Outrageous. I can teach someone how to heal themselves and then heal others for $60 a month. You'll notice there is no K after the 60.

The art is t'ai-chi ch'uan, and we can do things the Dahnhak weirdos would give their eye teeth to learn. We don't heal people as much as give them the tools to heal themselves. And then teach them how to teach others. Much more efficient than your typical cult leader/victim arrangement. The downside is it takes the better part of two decades to be introduced to our entire system of health (along the lines of traditional Chinese medicine, especially tui na), meditation (along the lines of Taoist tao yin ch'i-kung) and "soft-style" martial art. But it's worth it.

T'ai-chi is known (in China, at least) as a transcendant art form, a discipline that can clearly show what our everyday world is based on, how it is really put together - and by whom - how our society is predicated on a series of lies that almost everyone accepts. Good old basic Taoism and Buddhism, in the long run.

There is a lot of crappy t'ai chi out there, you have to learn from one of the original t'ai-chi families. They are professional martial art teachers, not cultists, and they have a strong traditional ethic that prohibits financial or sexual exploitation of students. You will learn something valuable and be safe while learning it.

See:

www.yangfamilytaichi.com

or

www.wustyle.com

for two of the best schools teaching this remarkable art form.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 08:46 pm:

I have studied Tai Chi and Yoga for quite some time. This is what led me to dahn. I attended healer school and had a great time. I learned alot and got to help alot of people. The longer I stayed with the organization the more I disliked about it. I realized they were out to get as much money as possible. I truly believe they have perverted the practice of dahn with the amount of greed involved. I put the blame for this on lee. I have spoken to many long time members as well as ex-members who all left because of the need to make as much money as possible and forsake the knowledge of healing. The intent of healer school had merit in my eyes, unfortunately it is based on Lee's greed.

Do what you feel is right for you. Read all posts.

A side note. I have met members who were involved in other cults (scientology, landmark forum, falun gong, moonies, krishnas,yoga,tm, etc.)who have passed through the doors of dahn centers. Some were searching for their "Truth" others were just lost and confused, all of them had the same thing in common--they were very unhappy. The dahn members were all happy. This was a major selling point to the outside world. They wanted what we had. It is too bad that as you advance in the organization you find out the unfortunate truth of what dahn is about. In case your are wondering the scientologist I met put a real scare into me with the behavior and overall creepiness. This person stayed one day.

By Sifu on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 09:25 am:

Ah, but if you were taken in by Dahn, your t'ai chi level must be very low. People have to study good t'ai chi from an instructor with kung fu, an instructor who properly represents the entire art to get beyond the most superficial level.

So many people learn a t'ai chi form or a partial form and decide for themselves that they know all there is to t'ai chi. Those people we can't help. How can you teach someone so easily satisfied? We encourage scepticism in our students, so that they are always thinking about why a certain move has the requirements it does, why people in general move, breathe and think the way they do. Too many lame t'ai chi instructors just mumble new age nothings about "moving like the wind" and "feel the flow" and never encourage progress in the art, because they've never actually learned the art. They don't know push hands, they don't know ch'i kung, they don't know tui na or weapons training, they can't defend themselves. They just want to dance in public parks wearing Chinese clothes and project that they are somehow "deep" and look "cool."

That is why I posted the links that I did, those two t'ai chi schools (the two biggest in the wortld, BTW) have the whole art, and they have classes around the world.

As for scientology and its ilk, the Buddha said: "It is better to walk alone than walk with a fool."

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 10:55 am:

"Ah, but if you were taken in by Dahn, your t'ai chi level must be very low."

That's not a fair thing to say to anyone on this board. No more of this sh.., please!

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 10:56 am:

Oh, maybe I misunderstood -- sorry!

By turtle-with-a-good-sight on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 02:47 pm:

Thanks for your sharing, anonymous May 19, 8:07....WOW, this proves, once more, the “VISION” is not about healing humanity, but about Korean enlightenment ...on American soil;
They protect Korean masters above American masters... where is the ONENESS??

Trying to understand our beloved Korean masters I was surfing on the internet, what a beautiful energy, the web, energy that brings us all together, and brings us useful info.

I kind of find a pattern in this whole system and would like to look at the bigger picture and share what I found. Mr. Lee comes from a suffering and divided country, and he has a dream about his country. We know already Mr. Lee buys lots of land, “Dahn” , (“bright”) for the “white clothed people (=Korean)”... (White symbolizing all that is bright such as justice and equality, see : (http://www.daejonggyo.or.kr/english.htm) http://www.koreanmedicine.net/7news/7news prologue.html)

To live like the Korean masters do, you need to believe in a big reward, what could be the dream they live for and work so hard for in the centers? What is the reward for those masters to be so devoted and give up their lives and loved ones for this one human being, Mr. Lee?
We know now it is not healing humanity, nor the Earth ... could it be to rebuild that once so beautiful peaceful nation by means of the ENERGY of MONEY; to do what? Maybe to establish a big empire... and where can you be so free to do so, in the land of the FREEDOM of course, not in Korea, but HERE.
Mr. Lee found the perfect spiritual spot with a mountain, Bell Rock in Sedona, Arizona. Another question: whose empire?

Let’s browse more on the internet, guys, I found some very interesting eye-opening sites.
www.Tangun.com (Tangun.... Dangun... Thanjon... Danjon...) WHO were you calling tapping your 2nd chakra?
and (http://www.kimsoft.com/2002/danggun.htm), when you bow with “sincerity” (the masters know what I’m talking about) you bow to the founder of Korea. Masters will recognize the picture of Dangun on last mentioned website, the one you had to look at until you felt connected while you were bowing during myongsumnim training.
The legendary Dangun lived many thousand years ago, and died at the age of 1,908years, he was the son of “God” and a “bear-woman”... our masters worship this soul in the physical body of Lee... 21 bows, because Mr. Lee meditated in the mountain for 21 days without food ....., 103 bows, because the god Hwan Wung bade the tiger and the bear to pray for 100 days in a dark cave + 3 for the 3 gods; god-father, god-teacher and god-king.
Mr. Lee thinks he is the reincarnation of Dangun or Tangun, the new MESSIAH on earth, (http://www.daejonggyo.or.kr/english.htm) and he needs lots and lots of MONEY to rebuild the empire that once was so peaceful.

How to attract people with MONEY? What do wealthy people worry about, once they have food and clothing and a roof, they want a healthy body and mind. Mr.Lee came up with the perfect bate: healing society by healthy energy exercise. We thought we were doing Yoga exercises, in fact we were doing WARM-UP exercises for TaiChi; to open up our meridians. TAI CHI is a thousand year old Chinese martial art, well known in Asia for its healing powers ... no miracle, if you miss your Dahn center for your body and mind healing, try Taichi, try the real stuff! Ilchi Qigong Taichi is only a pale and boring interpretation.

Practicing real YOGA would be less effective to reach MR. Lee’s vision.
Mr. Lee doesn’t want you to open up chakras other than the 2nd (sexual, easy to manipulate, obsessive...the one that advertisement companies use all the time, need to belong to a group) and the 4th (heart chakra, home of all your emotions, the healing chakra connected to your hands to heal). Mr. Lee skips the most important connection in between, the 3rd chakra, the chakra that everyone developed as a teenager, the one that individualizes your personality, the one where you ask yourself “is this what I want...?” The chakra that permits you to say “NO”. Because we skip this chakra we develop a dangerous cocktail, losing our individuality, and we become “very emotional and easy to manipulate human beings...” the perfect followers...
Dahn Yoga only recognizes 6 chakras; of course, the 7th chakra once opened up, brings us all together, the one that connects us all, where we’re all ONE. So no ONENESS at the end of the road! Again!

Only the “money” is the goal, the more the quicker the better... You can call it a business, I call it a hidden religion. In my eyes when you hide something, it’s not healthy. This empire in which the Korean masters of course will have leading roles, needs to be in place by 2010..., why? Is this the real reason, I have my doubts, he tries to beat all the other spiritual leaders, it’s a COMPETITION on behalf of many lives!!! http://www.experiencefestival.com/2012

If it was about giving the members the path to enlightenment, old members would still be there and be led to enlightenment, and the whole picture would be beautiful and match our expectations and be priceless.
Because the amount of Americans (or other nationalities) in the final picture is of no importance... they do not care about us leaving the centers and become outsiders, once we have given them all the money we could, they do not need us anymore! P.S.: don't say anything bad about their programs, they will do everything to please you when you leave for you to keep a good impression of the whole system, try to have your money refund for example, just try...!

I will never forget my very first and very last (I hope) encounter with Mr. Lee in Sedona, what a big PERFORMANCE and what a one-man-SHOW! He was not even smiling standing next to that ugly HSP drawing, and his energy was so arrogant, all the masters were running around for him, and bowing and smiling... and we, healers, were ready... Before he showed up, Master Bubsung prepared all the healers in Mago Hall, “whenever he asks you a question, you say YESSS!!!” and then he added, as if Lee was going to do us a huge favor... “and Grandmaster Lee will shake everyone’s hand one by one...” the healers all had a big happy smile hearing this... “wow he’s going to shake our hand... wow, how humble... what an honor!!!” We were all thinking like that. My turn, he shook my hand; I looked into his eyes, looking down on me, NO emotions, only Arrogance, NO smile.
And then on stage he was snapping his fingers ordering “SMILE!” we all smiled, “LAUGH!” we all laughed, “LAUGH 10 MINUTES!” all the healers forced themselves to keep up laughing 10 minutes... to please him, and he said: “We are an army and our smile is our weapon” all the healers were marching like an army of soldiers. A friend healer said to me on our way back to the room “This is scary; everybody obeyed his commands without thinking... what if he changes his orders... “.

Even bigger picture, links with “North” Korea, museum in Iraq (?!)... (http://www.baghdadmuseum.org/ref/index.php?title=three_Kingdoms_of_Korea), no this is a crazy thought, or not?

Love.
Turtle-with-good-sight.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 03:04 pm:

Turtle; what insights, what truths, what communication.

You are another light here.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 05:43 pm:

QUOTE: “We are an army and our smile is our weapon” all the healers were marching like an army of soldiers. A friend healer said to me on our way back to the room “This is scary; everybody obeyed his commands without thinking... what if he changes his orders... “.

Whoa! Are you suggesting that Lee is trying to create an actual fighting army?

Thank you for your great post and insights, TurtleWGS.

By ex dahn family on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 08:44 pm:

Thank you all for sharing and information.
I saw danggun picture in our centre once And I didn't get any straight answer ,When I asked "who is this man"?and since, you never get an answer in dahn yoga!I didn't ask anymore.Now thanks to dear Turtle,I know why I couldn't see the picture anymore in centre.
keep sharing please.
Love
EX dahn member

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 05:57 am:

The posts in this forum has been an eye opener! I know someone who practices and this forum really filled in the blanks so im grateful. I have questions for those ex-members if i may please:
1. How are Non Practicing spouses/mates/girlfriend/boyfriends of dahn practioners viewed by fellow students and the masters?
2. With the high fees, do they allow for people who are not well off financially to do master training or regular training even though they cannot possibly pay for them?..ie what about enlightment for the poor?
3. ive heard Masters doing thousands of pushups at a time...can anyone shed light on this assertion?

thx to all...

By poppy on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 06:42 am:

I think we lost Hopeful, maybe he is in Sedona. I hope not. I bet his masters told him to stay away from this site, "it is bad energy"

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 08:54 am:

Please add this to the questions for insiders, if you don't mind:

1. What has Lee written, if anything, that shows that he (or dahn) believes in training people to a life-threatening point (for reasons like spiritual awakening, team building, or for whatever reasons), e.g. Julia Siverls and others who were required to go on 18 hour hikes with practically no supplies. I'd like to see his beliefs on paper.

2. I saw a webpage where trainees gave testimonials on how wonderful they felt after their endurance training was, like carrying another person for an hour up a hill. Did anyone here have similar training requirements at Dahn, or personally know other people who had over-exerting endurance training with Dahn that didn't end up on such a happy note: injuries, organ damage, etc.

Thanks.

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 01:28 pm:

In the past non practicing spouses etc. were pretty much ignored. Some time ago my master would not even look at pictures of my family. What appears to be happening now is the pretense of focusing on healing the family. This is probably in response to some of the bad press about how they really are.

There is such a need for Masters to man all the centers that they may be giving free training. The most expensive training and the one that makes all the wheels turn is Healer School @ $10K. Other training is in the $1K range. I would expect Masters is also in that range as well.

Yes, Masters and all members are encouraged to do as many push ups as possible. Some of them stay up all night and have reported around three thousand.

Hope this is helpful. I do wish as someone suggested that we use a username at the end of the post.

By searching on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 02:13 pm:

hi StillHealer,

thanks for taking the time to reply. Until stumbling on to this message board, ive always wondered what was being kept from me. What happens in class and in Sedona always seemed to be a secret and not to be shared. A bit strange for a discipline that puts u on the path of truth eh? One of the things things that ive pieced together is that even though yoga and tai chi are very dominant in the marketing materials, the classes and teachers do not seem to be very well versed in the actual basics of each discipline, which of course i found curious and disturbing. Additionally, the intestinal massages seemed a bit dangerous..is this so, and is this a common exercise? Its seems a bit dangerous to me that people with not much experience seem to be practicing this. This all and aside from the tales of people with abilities in the past to live hundreds of years, thousands of pushups, week without eating., pain is good..etc...put it all together and im obviously a bit concerned about anyone active in this practice/organization.

and yes, your reply was very helpful..heres a username per request! ;-)

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 03:25 pm:

It is my belief that although there are some facts being presented on this board I believe that for the most part this thread feeds into anger, fear, blame, and victimization. I still stand by what I have said in previous posts which is to not downplay or accuse posts as being untruthful but I think this thread tends to feed into the "fear machine" if you will. It is why I choose to visit even though, yes poppy some would say to stay away and that it has "bad energy." I continue to visit and post not to "convert" as some might say but to offer a glimpse into the other side of the coin of hurt that is being presented here.
I actually enjoyed turtles comments and appreciated some of the links especially that of dangun. As for some of the questions I know that at my center every opportunity is presented to a member so as to make it affordable, and yes prices are somewhat negotiable. Healer School is expensive yes but is well worth it in my opinion. It is something I know I will treasure for the rest of my life. The techniques and information I learned has made such a huge difference in my life and Mago Garden is perhaps one of the most beautiful places I have ever been and I have travelled to many parts of the world. The masters are wonderful. They are dedicated, loving, pure in energy, and extremely powerful. The push up stories are very true, I know one of the masters who does push ups on his pinkys. Apparently you start off standard and over time and as you become stronger you progress to doing them on your fingertips then to your thumbs, and slowly down each digit of your hand until you do them on your pinkys. This is not done in any ego sense to "show off" or anything but to demonstrate the principle of Jung Choong Ki Jang Shin Myung inside their own body. What that means in a nutshell is that as your energy matures and refines it changes making you stronger where you no longer fully utilize your own energy but you utilize cosmic energy as your means to endure beyond your physical limit. Now...I know that to some of you your eyes are rolling and I can forsee the onslaught of posts telling me I am this or that but this principle is true and very measurable particularly thru push ups. As you practice, your energy grows and changes it is amazing, and you will discover your obstacles as you do push ups. You will hear your brain telling you I hates this, I cant do it, but you push through and realize you are the master of your brain and body.
I firmly believe that those members who decide to pursue dahn beyond just physical exercise and to use it as the spiritual path they want to walk on it is a difficult road to hoe. But any devotion to spiritual growth is difficult no matter what medium you choose. I think some of those here are people who were/are a lot like me and as their training deepens they experience much inside and for some it freaks them out or they dont understand what they are feeling so it is easy to point to the "obvious" stuff and say this is bad dont follow this or you'll be hurt. As for the "secrecy" think about it, this stuff is deep and most people would get defensive if they knew up front everything to expect to training programs. Also by hearing what Shim Sung is about before participating you will ineveitably have preconceptions about it before even ever going. Its best to experience it for your self so that the experience is truly yours and yours alone. Doesn't that make sense? It isn't because of some underhanded way to manipulate you or keep you from knowing "whats really going on behind the scenes"
As for the masters, they are real human beings they are not some fictional characters who are immortals like you'd read about in some novels. They have fears, and get sick, and have stress just like anyone else would. I do believe that the need for opening centers so quickly needs to be slowed so that they may better train the masters of those centers so that they can deal with the stresses that arise from the job. Perhaps this is an issue that will be adressed soon.
I will be going to Sedona soon, can't wait!~!

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 03:26 pm:

PS Intestine exercise is great, do it everyday!

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 03:33 pm:

PSS
My reference to the masters as being wonderful and pure Iam referring to the masters I have met in Sedona.

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 03:54 pm:

Hopeful:
And how are your children. They are innocent and need a father.

Sorry about guilt trip; but you must be used to that if you have been in the system a while.

Love, Light and Do come back.
You will see the light one day; I know for sure

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 04:32 pm:

I am a great father and I know it and others tell me and see it. I am always with them I am not a 7 day a week 14 hour guy, I have a regular life and am very good with my sons, not that I should even have to explain myself to you.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 04:38 pm:

Hopeful; I know when I am being lied to. I know when I see others lied to. I know when I see others abused. I know when I am being abused. I have learned to avoid these kinds of people all my adult life. I avoided EST, Life Training, Landmark because I knew and heard their programs wanted to break you down only to be rebuilt as a better person.

Well guess what I got drawn in by Dahn and the physical exercise and it felt good. But abuse is still abuse either physical, emotional or spiritual.
They cover all three and get you to pay for it. Now that is brilliant marketing.

Wall Street are you listening??

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 06:12 pm:

Hopeful, I am beginning to think you are a plant on this board by Dahn. You no longer sound convincing or sincere to me, because your blind devotion and excuses for Dahn make no sense in light of all that you are hearing here. Stick around though. There is more "bad energy" here to come; much much more. Bad against bad = good.

Suziecue

By hopeful on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 07:11 pm:

it figures you would get paranoid, that is so funny and ridiculous. It also figures that you would consider my complete and total open and frankness on this board as insincere, now I am really beginning to see that most of this board really is "up to here" in fear and dillusions.

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 08:31 pm:

Hopeful,

I agree with you about Healer Training. It was a wonderful experience. I think everyone's complaints about Dahn stem from the fact that they bully people for money they can not spare. I have seen it firsthand. I have seen members leave because they were being bullied into giving something they could not spare. I don't believe I or anyone else should be expected to sacrafice my family for Dahn's version of enlightenment.

The training programs are all great. If they were voluntary. They are not because of the pressure from masters and members alike to take part in growing your soul. I was never pressured to do any programs. I enjoyed them all. The day came when I saw the organization for what it truly was-- a money making machine. When they have whatever they can get from you, you are no longer needed. This is probably why they have such a high turnover rate. If it was a sincere organization the members would stay longer than they do. You will see it someday soon.

If you want to read a good book check out:

"Enlightenment Blues" by Andre van der Braak

When I read this on the way to Sedona I almost screamed out loud on the plane. It has many parallels to Dahn, including pushups.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 08:31 pm:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is astounded by your inability to internalize what is being shared here -- but that might be the nature of the beast. These are not paranoid people, full of fear and dilusions, they are people trying to help other people. It's beautiful.
Suziecue

By searching on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 08:50 pm:

Hopeful,

As far as "secrecy" of experiences go, im not sure i follow your point. Does having expectations of any future event actually change the actual experience of the event once it happens? im sure people on the east coast can imagine what someone in Tokyo may experience during an earthquake of some magnitude, but im sure that east coast person can assure u of the difference once he actually feels one for himself vs his own expectations! Im also sure most women have preconceptions about what it is to give birth. Yet, once a woman actually gives birth, it doesnt appear that any preconceptions have made the experience any less profound or less personal! So im not sure what long term "consequences" one can have even if one did have "preconceptions" about a possible experience before actually realizing it..especially one that is supposed to be as profound as you say. Basically, if its "deep" an experience as you say, it will be "deep" regardless...Besides, who is to say that just because one doesn know before the experience that he is not guessing at the possibilities in anticipation anyway? Human nature, no? Would this not predjudice the experience for one as well?

Im not sure who you are referring to as being defensive, the person who underwent the experience but is told not to divulge what happened, or the person who is asking. Further, im not exactly sure what there is to be defensive about anyway for both people? Why would either person be "defensive"? Does this question make sense?

pS...did you actually see pinky pushups and how many was performed? from a physical standpoint, what is the structure..on the tips of the finger? , body resting on fully horizontal to the floor finger? arms/elbow outside body, close to body?

is there a Korean term for the moving exercise described as "tai chi", which is actually a chinese term for a chinese art which is not actually practiced in dahn classes to my understanding.

By Andrew Nevis on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 09:37 pm:

A person with an intellectual mind of inquiry can see both sides of every argument. Are those defending Dahn giving up in the face of contrary viewpoints? Lee wrote that a person cannot cloister themselves to gain "true enlightenment", they must live in the world, but come to the dahn center to recharge themselves.
Yet he also tells people not to become dependent on organized religion. A person who looks at this would point out that what is occuring is trading dependency for dependency. One can go on examining statements like that of Lee, where he seeks to create in others a dependency on Dahn.
Is there ever a point that a Dahn master can exceed Lee is wisdom and healing? Can anyone teach Lee a greater wisdom?
Lee writes of paper having no value, but it is on paper that he writes of all his abilities. Does that not mean Lee's expressed powers are worthless, as they have no independent scientific proof? Or do Dahn members believe everything an eastern mystic tells them?
What is real to a Dahn member?
Are public records illusionary? Shall we continue to sample a few more real world facts.

Trademarks U.S - Public record

Dahn Hak Sun Won

1. Taorobics

Br Consulting

1. Health Smile Peace HSP
2. Brain Respiration
3. Ilchi whistle
4. Powerbrain
5. Zenercise
6. Ji-Gam exercise
7. Shim Sung training
8. Meridan gym
9. Gae-Hyol
10. More than body
11. Initial awakening
12. Ready for awakening
13. Enlightened Leadership(cancelled 8.8,2002-true)

Bell Rock Development company

1. New Human school

Seung Heun Lee

1. Dahn-Mu
2. Dahn-Jon breathing
3. Dahn-Gong
4. Dahn (dead trademark)
5. Dahn method
6. Dahnhak
7. Dahn in golf
8. Dahn center

Journg Sook Lee (wife)

1. CGI Holistic fitness

Look through this board, you'll see the most of the 103 company names, the Yavapai real estate records and now the trademarks of dahn. When a group is sincere about healing the planet, enlightening others, it shows in the actions. Nothing seen by ex-members shows sincerity by Lee towards the planet or caring for people less fortunate.
People on this board have a commitment to helping others. Hopeful, you get incensed because they don't agree with how your feeling, that's fine. Maybe in time you'll change your mind?
As to the curious or ex-members, all that evil needs to thrive is for good people to do is nothing. If you feel that Dahn is bad, do something, do not be daunted, it is may seem impossible, a growing, small number against hundreds, but this is not a normal discussion. Those sucked into intermediate to higher levels are akin to borg, attack and defense, each move decided by the head office - leadership.
Total cult control effectively reduces the argument to those of the many with free will and the one, that is the cult leader. Yes, the cult leader has defenders (drones), catch is they sound the same with variations as taught by the cult leader who provides the thoughts. In the end, the independent thinker will always be more effective.
This is why we show kindness to mouthpieces that defend Dahn.
Related to that, a person like Hopeful has all his dreams diminished to the earth, no stars, no far off hopes, only earth, all because Lee cannot dream beyond the earth.

By Mouse on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 12:32 am:

*pricks up her ears* Sorry for going off topic, but somebody mentioned "Landmark Forum" and "cult" in the same sentence in a previous post. Someone who quit Dahn at the same time I did was encouraging me to get involved with them. Can anyone point me towards information on that group?

By Mouse on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 12:33 am:

...Oh, perfect, there's an article posted TODAY about LF on RickRoss.com. Anything else?

By Poppy on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 04:38 am:

Andrew, great statements, you are very smart.
Hopeful, you are surely losing it. I wonder if you are aware of how robotic you sound. You sound more bitter and angry than anyone else on this board, you sound plain angry and vemonous and you are trying to make like you are not. Strange.
Suziecue, I think you are right about hopeful, he sounds like a robot for Lee and
Mouse, you are cute

By Poppy on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 04:40 am:

Also this is not a board for anger, we are trying to help others before they lose to much. I wish I had someone to tell me all of this info sooner then I wouldn't be out thousands of dollars. I only want to help others, share experiences, and inform those who are confused.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:36 am:

How about sending information to your local and national investigative reporters. Other ideas may be a topic for Oprah show. It would take people who are willing to get out from behind the computer screen. (perhaps Laila and the person who was assaulted)
Other ideas would be to have an organization that offers a safe haven and return ticket to Korea to Masters who would like to leave but currently have no vehicle of doing so.
Just brainstorming here!!!

By Still a healer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:09 am:

Hopeful; I am sure you are a wonderful father. What I am trying to say here as someone who has experienced divorce with two young children; while one of the parents is off madly in love; they are not present and the children know something is very very wrong. At those times the other parent Hopefully would step up to the plate; forget about "Finding Their True Self"
It is tempting to run away and be around such love and support as you find in the MOST BEAUTIFUL SPOT IN THE WORLD. Please think about "Walking on the Hot Coals" at home with your wife and children until this family storm blows over.
Sedona will always be there; one only gets one chance to raise children

By hopeful on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:53 am:

Thanks for your caring and support. (and I dont mean that sarcastically)

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 07:11 am:

Hopeful,

Prozac helps. It is cheaper than Dahn Yoga.

By searching on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 03:25 pm:

to the ex-practitioners,

Is it fair to say that overall , the healing/dahn program (aside from the money issue and politics) itself you believe works? From what ive read in this site, the ex-practitioners generally have positive thoughts on the dahn training itself. It seems most left for issues other than "this practice is phony or it doesnt work"?

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 04:16 pm:

Searching you are correct.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 04:33 pm:

I think it depends on what you mean by "works?" Everyone knows that exercise can make you healthier and make you feel better, and meditation too. If you mean that Brain Respiration "works" to cure ADHD in kids or make kids see through blindfolds, that sounds phony. Hopeful's claim that doing pushups on your pinkies is a result of some kind of cosmic energy created by dahn exercises sounds phony to me because the human body is capable of amazing feats, without dahn. Their claims of being able to diagnose and cure internal disorders and illnesses sounds phony to me, except to the extent that most people benefit health-wise from exercise and relaxation programs, dahn or otherwise. Do their programs "work" to create peaceful humans? I would bet that most people who go to dahn centers are already peaceful types of people. And we all read here someone's story of the violent master, and the story of dahn turning away who were very ill people -- phony baloney. The idea that advanced dahn programs "work" to create healers sounds phony too, when you consider that they let Julia Siverls die on a hike. I'm sure it satisfies a lot of people though, and so it "works" for them, and that's how they get people to go farther and spend more money until they are deeply invested in their cult.

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 11:42 pm:

Hopeful, please define and provide your source for "Jung Choong Ki Jang Shin Myung." I can't find anything on the Internet about this.

You describe a "no pain no gain" approach to exercise. This is no longer considered a safe and healthy approach to exercise. Listening to your body is important to your health. Of course you have to push somewhat, but your mind crying out in agony is not healthy. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger? Is that what is taught by Dahn?

By clockwork on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 04:14 am:

Hi all,

I have contacted Avon like someone had suggested a month ago. I finally got a generic response back. They went on about how Dahn is providing services during the breast cancer walk for free and people love it. They have not done their research and I suggest that we all email this woman her email is the following: Susan.Heaney@AvonFoundation.org, email her and at least get her to listen, Dahn should not be a part of such an important event as a breast cancer walk nor should it be working with such a big, well-known company such as Avon.
Thank you

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 07:19 am:

Great idea clockwork. I will do that now!

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 11:46 am:

I heard a song the other day and I could not believe the lyrics. Read the lyrics and see if it parallels your experience in Dahn.

"Hooked on a Feeling" sung by BJ Thomas

I can't stop this feeling
Deep inside of me.
Girl you just don't realize
What you do to me.
When you hold me in your arms so tight
You let me know everything's alright.

I, I'm hooked on a feeling.
High on believing
That you're in love with me.

Lips are sweet as candy
The taste stays on my mind.
Girl you keep me thirsty for
Another cup of wine.
I got it bad for you girl,
But I don't need a cure.
I'll just stay addicted and hope I can endure.
All the good love, when we're all alone.
Keep it up girl, yeah you turn me on.

I, I'm hooked on a feeling.
High on believing
That you're in love with me.

I, I'm hooked on a feeling.
I'm high on believing
That you're in love with me.

They don't love you! Then the reality hits you that you are being used to make Lee a very rich man. I don't want to jump to conclusions but I will make the exception this time. I believe that the masters are being pimped out by Master Lee. There may be no sex involved but they are his pimps and prostitutes anyway. There I said it. Their sole purpose is to make him rich. Forget about saving the world, that is just a ruse to get the members to feel like they are doing something important with their lives.

Current and potential members should ask themselves how much time they are dedicating to Lee's cause. Do you spend as much time at the dahncenter as you do your paying job. You know the one that feeds your family and pays for your home and medical insurance and your retirement. If you are spending too much time at the center helping to hand out fliers, clean the school and teach or indoctrinate new members are you getting paid for this? Did you get paid for the use of your car? If not then why don't you put this effort into your company which pays you for being there. Your company benefits society more than Dahn does. Dahn is good for Lee and his bank account.

Do you think that you are really helping society by donating all of your available time to Dahn? I challenge all current members to take a one month leave of absence from dahn. Watch how you go through withdrawal. This is not normal. You probably would not have withdrawal symptoms from your day job. While you are away see how much of your personal life has fallen by the wayside. Do a reality check of your financial condition. See how much of your money has gone to dahn and lee's purchase of property.

Do you think this is healthy?

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 11:57 am:

Dahn has been trying to get into schools,business and hospitals for a long time now. I was told by a master that the Shim sung program is popular in Korean offices of big businesses.They will make more money and try to add legitimacy to their organization. They are no different than other cults who have tried the same. Read about landmark,scientology,tm,etc. They may try to teach for free in the beginning just to get their foot in the door. They will then start to charge a fee. It is a brave new world for cults like dahn. They want you to believe they have no fear because they are protected by Lee and chon ji kun. Their real weakness is to shine a light on them. They will hide like roaches. Let the world see how they operate. They will not like this at all.

Do your research on this group and you will not like what you find. If you have personal experience with them please post it here for all the world to see.

By Stillahealer on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 01:25 pm:

The current problem as I see it is that this board is not well known to the unsuspecting dahn new member. These are the people who get a flyer at their doorstep or drive by the new Yoga Tai Chi sign; drop in and get hooked. There are currently enough of those kinds of people to fund the operation. Some of them will go on to take the various programs especially Shim Sung. After this weekend program the real heavy duty push for Healer School begins. Before they can blink any eye they have dropped $10 $15 $30. $40 thousand. I knew a few members who spent around $1,000 annually just for classes. These people were in the minority and eventually faded away as well.
I remember asking my head master about a female attorney who attended class and nothing else. The masters response startled me when she said "B___ is very strong" It made me wonder if she believed that I was weak in comparison.

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 02:07 pm:

I questioned a master one time about handing out brochure racks to small business owners. The response I got was there is available space and we will use it. They don't own private businesses but they feel they are entitled to use them as they wish. Imagine if they came to your house and pressured you to keep a display rack filled with brochures on your front door. They pressure you by coming by each week until you submit to them. It is not right. If you see them in stores inform the owner they are supporting a dangerous cult. (See death of Julia Siverls) Let them know if they continue to support a cult you will take your business elsewhere. If you find their flyers on your car or doorstep call the sanitation department and see if you can get a ticket issued to dahn for littering. If you find their flyers in your sunday newspaper call the newspaper and see if dahn paid them for the right to put it there. If you find it in your apartment building tell the super you do not want these solicitations. Sometimes the masters will ring a bell to gain access to an apartment building to distribute flyers. This is illegal entry and trespassing. Make it as difficult as possible for them to do business outside of the law. They really don't respect our laws, but you already knew that by reading all of the previous posts.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 02:18 pm:

My nail salon, cleaners and favorite restaurant currently have these flyers on display. What is so ironic is I would venture to guess they never ever patronize these establishments.
So far I have not had the courage to say anything to the owners. Nathan Hale, healernomore and others have reminded me of my obligation to speak out.

By Anonymous on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 09:42 pm:

Has anyone seen this video? Includes "Danhak" as a secret society behind the facade of a fitness center. http://shopping.discovery.com/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10000&catalogId=10000&langId=-1&productId=56111&partnumber=665331

By clockwork on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 04:20 am:

Healer NoMore, I have been on a mission for the past six months to rid my community of Dahn. I live in a city where there are many college students, so you see Dahn brochures everywhere. I walk around and go from store to store and wherever I see Dahn Brochures I ask for the owner and tell them they are supporting a manipulative cult, usually the manager or owner tells me to throw them away they say "I don't even know what they are." The sanitation dept idea is a good one, I will do that, I get a brochure at least once a month, inside my door. I don't want these people on my property. I appreciate the advice I will do all that I can possibly do to slow or stop Dahn yoga from spreading their poison. If you ever have any other ideas I would love to hear them. Thank you all for your support.

By no long member on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 05:25 am:

Thanks everyone
You made my eyes open!!!!
I love you all.
Keep sending information.
EX-member from yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Anonymous on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 06:48 am:

Welcome; nolongermember; All we did here is confirm that which you already knew. Loosing the dream is painful or did you even get into it that far? Tell us your story.
Love

By clockwork on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 07:26 am:

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! no longmember, I am so happy to hear the news. Chalk the whole thing up to an experience, it was quite an experience, people are in awe by my stories, they say Dahn sounds like soemthing out of a horror film. Congrats, you will be fine, share anything you want with us anything that you feel like getting out over the next few frustrating weeks.

By partofstillahealersstarbucksclub on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 09:59 am:

wow! does anyone know when that video came out? that anonymous put the link to? I think that is amazing - where has it been - I think they need to follow up here in the U.S. if it's only about Korea.

By on a mission on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 10:38 am:

Hi
I ordered the VHS on line today.And I have a feeling that is going to be a very interesting video.
YOU can order on discovery channel store on line or buy it from the shop itself.Most mall or big shopping center have this shop.
Thank you to dear anonymous for sharing this Vhs.
love and peace.
On a mission.

By clockwork on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 11:30 am:

I am going to buy the video, I just looked it over I can't wait to see it. How Exciting!!!

Thank you

By Stillahealer on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 11:48 am:

I ordered mine on line. Both local stores do not have it in stock.
Thanks!!

By HealerNoMore on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 12:15 pm:

To my knowledge the only people who may put something in your mailbox is the post office. Flyers and advertisements are not allowed to be put in mailboxes, it may be a federal offense. If you find them on your property or your car you can collect them and cut them up and mail them back to the local center. I have seen this many times. The note should clearly explain they are not welcome to litter on your block. This is usually done anonymously. It does not stop them because they will not show the cut up flyers to the members who will deliver them. I often wondered if the dahn center would take responsibility for a member who was attacked while handing out flyers in a situation as stated above, then I realize the dahn center does not take responsibility for its actions. Anyone who wants to participate in this vile organization is on their own. They will use you as a dispensable tool and be done with you as soon as the money runs out.

Has anyone on this board experienced a conflict of interest with their religious beliefs? You do know they slowly assimilate you into their religion right? When you do your bows your are being prepped into bowing to their god. It happens to be lee. How do the masters respond to your questions? I have been told that Christianity is in a confused state, and that Bhuddism and dahn is superior because of their focus and direction. Dahn has big plans to take over the world by opening centers across the world. If they can open centers in certain locations they will be able to connect the dots as it were, to other major cities. Look to California for a good example, also the east coast has NY, Boston and D.C, they may be doing the same in mid america, maybe other places by now. Keep your eyes open.

By Anonymous on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 01:29 pm:

This is copied from ilchiacademy.org.

"Born in 1950 to a family of educators, Dr. Ilchi Lee majored in Clinical Pathology in college, in addition to gaining degrees in Physical Education and Oriental Medicine. After his marriage in 1974, he became more deeply interested in traditional forms of mind-body training. Gaining a deep understanding and appreciation of the brain as a tool for integrating the body - mind - spirit aspects of the human nature, he set out to systemize and organize his experiences and knowledge into Brain Respiration."

Has anyone just called the Ilchi Meditation Center near Sedona, or other office and asked?

By Anonymous on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 01:53 pm:

Sorry, but asked what?

By Anonymous on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 02:09 pm:

Healernomoe, where did you get your info and how do you know that you are being prepped to bow to their God or Lee. Please explain how you have come to know this, it is scary.

By Anonymous on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 02:11 pm:

halernomore, how do you know that you are being prepped to bow to their god or lee? where did you get this info from, please explain how you know this, it is scary.

By HealerNoMore on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 07:01 pm:

When you do bow training at the end of the day,usually late evening you do bow training. The set up is as follows: there is a picture of lee put at the front of the room, incense is lit,and you start to bow to the picture. The picture is indicative of lee being present and you are bowing directly to him. There are also other ceremonies where you bow to the picture of dangun(the 47th one--lee is the supposedly the 48th). There have been ceremonies with both pictures and candles lit at each side along with the incense. There is a large golden statue of the dangun in mago garden. Some members do bow training to the statue, which I never understood. In a sense they are praying to a statue of a Korean religious entity. The healers have done this also but they are probably to jaded to ask the right questions of the masters. If you find an American master-ask although they may be too brainwashed to tell you as everything is so secretive. I believe this makes lee a false god, but you already knew that didn't you.

Have any members taken part in the Juniper tree ceremony? This is the ceremony where they give energy to a juniper tree in mago garden. The idea is that the chosen ones (high level true believer masters)will have their bodies cremated and the ashes spread out at the base of the chosen tree. Of course lee gets the biggest and best tree because he is more important than everybody else (it is always about him and feeding his ego and his wallet). They will then be able to give oxygen to the earth. Their souls meanwhile will go to Bell Rock and wait for 100 years for Lee to take them to the heavens. This is why there is a picture of Bell Rock in most centers. I kid you not.

Do not be afraid to ask questions. Why are you paying so much money and take everything for granted? If you don't ask you will never know.

By HealerNoMore on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 07:08 pm:

Lee majored in Clinical Pathology, but did he get his degree? Please look at:

www.selectsmart.com/ilchilee.html

There is a whole lot of research on lee's alleged doctorate degree.

Also check: www.RickRoss.com

There is plenty of information there too.

By free from dahn on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 08:09 pm:

Hi everyone check this out!!!!!!

http://www.yogalearningcenter.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=4&threadid=40

http://dailyablution.blogs.com/the_daily_ablution/2004/12/guardian_report.html

http://www.yogabasics.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?b=y03,v=display,m=1112215730

http://www.pinecam.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16135&highlight=dahn

http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm?FACTNet

http://www.randi.org/jr/111904the.html#7

http://www.randi.org/jr/121004science.html#5http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/sciences/story/0,12243,1337292,00.html

By free on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 08:16 pm:

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/sciences/story/0,12243,1337292,00.html

http://blogs.provost.org/emily/archive/2005/03/11/2979.aspx

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 05:45 am:

It is amazing that people believe Lee's claims of superhuman powers. A few of his claims are of melting an area of snow around himself while meditating. There is also running incredibly fast as a child. All comes acrosss as bogus, phony, made up tales of self-aggrandizement.
It all leads up to a bigger lie of supposed physical stamina.
Lee doing without food, drink and sleep for 21 days, but he says he could and that's how he found enlightenment. Yet, Lee for all his powers has never run a triathalon, been a member of any Korean olympic team, in short, he's never proven to the world any great athletic ability.
Those that can, do, those that can't spin tall tales.
What of the power brain? He went to a middle of the line Korean school. Lee was not a great scholar. Is there anything beyond charisma that this man offers?
No, not unless one likes mental slavery from a man who was never a great athlete or a brilliant scholar.

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 08:03 am:

Lee is not a great scholar but hey he pretty successful.

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 03:17 pm:

(Hankuk-Ilbo)Korean Newspaper

ILLEGAL PRODUCTION OF HEALTH SUPPLEMENTARY FOOD CHIEF OF UNLICENCED DAHNHAK ARRESTED

Prosecutor Jun-Mo Park at Specialty Department of Eastern Branch at Seoul Police arrested 3 persons including Seung-Heon Lee(301 Family Apt, MoonJung-dong Songpa-gu, Seoul), the chief of Dahn-hak-Seon-Won, as the prosecution of the breach of health crime regulation & education law. They are also accused of performance lasciviousness.

According to the prosecutory authorities, they set up Dahn-hak-Seon-Won at 2-165, Poi-dong, Gangnam-gu, Seoul since May 1990, manufacturing ‘Chonwha bamboo salt?and ‘Jung-chung-dahn which is the mixture of licorice root and ginger powder without any food production licence. They are suspected of manufacturing 3,900 bottles, and having unjust profiting from selling these kinds of health supplementary food through Dahn branches all over the country

By Stillahealer on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 04:11 pm:

What was the date of the Korean Newspaper? And the date of the arrrest?

Is this old or new news?

Anyone here tried the powedered Shwma stuff? I still have the packages here; you know just in case there is a famine Ha Ha.

Love this site. You are Great!!!!

By fresh-ex on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 05:56 pm:

i am just fresh out of dahn. i am weighing my options of what to do next carefully. i don't just want to disappear, that's for sure. i have friends there! and know people that are in it so deep- you only see it once you are out though. i have been reading for hours and hours today. one thing i haven't noticed mentioned is the BR-Q- that visor with flashing lights and audio. i couldn't afford one (fortunately) but others have told me that the more they use it, the more compelled they are to "train".
how can we reach each other? there certainly is some fear surrounding this, it seems. people have already warned me to be careful.
i can't believe the paranoid thoughts that have run through my mind. that's how i started snapping out of it. i "watched" myself. i stayed strong under pressure, and watched them (my so-called teachers). i have began a written log of EVERY single thing i can remember since joining. and i DO want to do something about this!! finding this info on-line was so important for snapping of this daze. first thought: oh, that's ridiculous. second thought: this can't happen to me. third thought: shame.
get past the shame. we must tell our families and friends and be really honest, and not ashamed. if you don't tell the truth, people get sucked back in. its easier. talk soon
stay strong

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 06:14 pm:

Fresh-ex, please share more. Paint us a picture of why you are so concerned, what are your paranoid thoughts, what did you feel shame about, etc. There are a couple of posters here, and probably many readers too, who think we here are the delusion-makers who are putting negative fears into people who otherwise would benefit greatly from Dahn. Sounds like you disagree.

Are you thinking that the BR-Q is influencing people to go for more training? Maybe it's hypnotic. I read about it but never used it myself. Are there hypnotic suggestions given by instructors while people are using it? It could just be that people like it, repetitive lights and soothing sounds (yes?), relaxing?

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 06:16 pm:

The article about Lee's arrest, above, was dated 1993, translated from a Korean newspaper article.

By Stillahealer on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 06:58 pm:

Yes, I did the Juniper Tree Ceremony; it was required as part of the Myungsa (ledership) training. At first a few people did not want to participate; they had family plots; or made other arrangements in the event of their death. You should have seen the pressure on them to commit to having their ashes taken there. In the end these very strong articulate confident professionals submitted to the need to belong and become one with the class. REMEMBER WE ARE ALL ONE
I went along thinking I can change my mind any time after I get out of here. As long as they were not asking me to die at that very moment I figured I had nothing to loose except my valuable time. In all sincerity I had one foot there but the other was planted in reality. At the ceremony we were asked to donate to Tao Fellowship. In retrospect this training was the last drop in the bucket for me.
This is when I learned that we had to bow to Ilchi Lee. Each evening we set up the alter as healernomore described; had to be perfect; white cloth, candles, picture etc. Bowing mats had to be perfectly alligned. Some of the other classmates got very upset at those of us who did not see the need for such perfection.
I had spent a great portion of my life recovering some Catholic issues; low and behold here I was again bowing etc. except this time it was not the God I grew up with; it was Lee.
Scared the BeJesus out of me.

By hopeful on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 07:56 pm:

I feel that the Juniper ceremony sounds beautiful. I have known about this for a while now and admit it I loved it from the start. Hey, if you don't want to go out that way, don't. As for bowing I have bowed many times at my center with all the healers and our master and we didnt bow to Lees pic. I am not saying your lying, its just that we don't do it at my center. I recently read Steven Hassans book, Combatting Mind Control and Singers, Cults in our midst and I must say Dahn doesnt seem to fit the criteria for a cult. Sorry guys, I know you think it is but it isn'tat all like some of the examples in these books. Yes we have chanting and there are some things that can be labelled as "cultish" to some but the most important thing is being open. Any question I have ever had, including items brought up on this board was answered and dealt with to my complete satisfaction. If you go to a gym and sign up with a personal trainer.....ah never mind, My center and master is a great place and every effort is always taken to allow members and newcomers to feel completely comfortable to grow at their own pace. The new peopl who want to sign up are not pressured (remember this is at my center)anymore than any other organization would to sign up someone new. And every accomodation is made so that the person can afford to join.

By Anonymous on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 08:04 pm:

"Any question I have ever had, including items brought up on this board was answered and dealt with to my complete satisfaction."

Did you ask: How did Julia Siverls die?

Suziecue

By fresh-ex on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 08:32 pm:

hi again. i cannot write at any length until tomorrow, but just to let you know, i have created a bit of a wave at my center. yet, people are "laying low", seeing who else is dropping out, waiting to get their money back. its nuts. talk to you tomorrow. please keep writing to me!

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 08:50 pm:

If you want your money back. Think again they have strict policies against it. You will be given several excuses and ultimately you will give up. In the event you are successful, you will not receive 100% of your tuition. Please read the fine print.

One technique that may help is to threaten to go to the attorney general and the media as well as the better business bureau.

You will not find out you are bowing to lee until you reach a level beyond healer. Then you will realize you were being prepped for acceptance into their religion.

What will your family say when the masters arrive at your house to retrieve your body for cremation and scattering your ashes in the desert? You did not sign a release to them did you? I hope not!

I am glad someone found out about his arrest. Thank You!

You can go to any GNC and buy an equivelant to lee's sam hwa sangshik powder drink for a lot less than the $120.00 they will charge you for it. Did you know that the masters only rarely drink it because they don't like the taste and the price is too high for them.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 11:40 pm:

Hopeful,

You sound like a very caring person. I think you really enjoy the dahn experience.(I know I did until I woke up and saw what they were really doing.) If this is the case then don't be tempted to read any of the posts here. It will take away from your personal enjoyment. Please continue to grow and help as many people as possible.

When you awake you will still be welcome to share your experiences. I have had some good as well as bad experiences. I have discovered that I don't want to use or manipulate people who are there to be helped. I don't want to take their last dime to support lee's lavish lifestyle. Ask yourself why lee is allowed to have houses and expensive cars. Why are members buying clothes, food, cell phones, office supplies, etc. for the masters? When was the last time you saw a master who owned anything of value? If the masters answer all of your questions ask them to show you their retirement plan or even their health insurance. They don't need it because they believe dahn will take care of them. Many of the masters were recruited right out of college, they have no real job experience. Many masters are only in their early 30's, do you think they will be there in another 40 years? Do you think they have a severance package? (They don't fire masters, masters are made to quit so there is no severance liability from the dahn organization. How much have they had to pay out in unemployment insurance? I am willing to bet it is a very low number.) Will they be able to live comfortably or will they still be slaves of the dahn organization? Who will be running the corporation by then? What is lee's salary? What are the people in the background paid? You know the ones who have their names on all the real estate holdings.

There are many questions but no real answers.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 07:00 am:

It would be great just to take classes without getting caught in the mess andthen believing you are serving a higher cause. You know. Drop the friends,job family, lifestyle. Take the ticket ,bow to Il chi do 1000 or 3000 bows. preprare cermonies go to meetings. sorry for my english. I wonder this could be done?

By Reciprocity on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 07:46 am:

Why do you want to bow to the guy? Why is there such a compulsion to honour criminals in this world? He is a hack. If his stuff were real, he wouldn't need all the cruel control mechanisms in his cult organisation in the first place. There are plenty of good teachers out there teaching better qigong, better t'ai chi and better Oriental medicine.

Don't bow to a sadistic gecko who doesn't care about other people, at all, go find a kind teacher who won't steal your money or make you sleep with someone you don't know.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 11:11 am:

Reciprocity, why did you say this: "or make you sleep with someone you don't know." That kind of thing should be backed up with some evidence. Are you saying this because of what others have posted here, like about the master who tried to trick someone into a greencard marriage by promising her a baby, or the article that Lee had been arrested for lasc...lasiv...inappropriate sexual behavior, or do you know something that we don't know?

Suziecue

By Stillahealer on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 11:19 am:

Great question Susiecue. Lets keep this board to the facts;

By FRESH-EX on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 01:38 pm:

hi, i am back on-line for the day. i don't have internet at home yet. to suziecue: at my orientation, i was kind of shoved to the floor and the sabumnim put the BR-Q on my head. i asked what it was and she said it would relax my brain. after the flashing lights and beeping noises, there is a recording of a woman's voice- hard to remember exactly, something about new humans, the earth, etc. lots of people purchased this device and use it twice a day. one friend admitted she is more compelled to train- go to class, go to yeha, go to meetings, go to bowing.
sounds like something out of star trek.
regarding my feelings leaving the center, and observations of others: i think people are embarrassed when they realize what has been going on, because "being had" only happens to stupid, weakminded individuals. not true!! my center is filled with professionals, nurses, and wonderful, sincere people. there are lots of people with diseases, chronic pain, arthritis, lupus, all kinds of conditions, and like me, were tapped out, had tried everything, but were still determined to heal themselves or at least improve the quality of their lives. there are people there with conditions much more serious than mine (its all relative, i know) that think if they stop going that their conditions will worsen. it makes me so mad. and alot of people refuse to talk to their families, they are too ashamed. so because they don't take any steps to make the changes, and share what's happened to them, they end up going back. i have been watching this happen. some people have brought dahn into their families. they sign up their mom, or get a family member to buy a BR-Q. how do you tell Grampa that he just wasted 400 dollars? so they don't say anything. they feel trapped.
somebody mentioned oprah... if this has been going on for ten years in the states, why hasn't it been stopped ages ago?? why haven't they been exposed repeatedly?
regarding paranoia: its hard to talk about because it makes me look bad. all i know is that this all started out as just going to yoga, and became competitive within the center (i was invited for bowing, she was invited for lunch, etc.)people stopped trusting each other but it impossible to talk about. i really noticed this when i tried talking to members about it being a cult. some were wondering if i was "testing" them. it was so strange.one even mentioned spies. when trying to talk to people about this, its like reaching through a fog. my memory is very spotty about alot of my experiences, and i don't have a memory problem. i did a workshop about three weeks ago and there were only 9 other people there, most from my center. i found myself telling another member about the weekend, and she said she was there. i quickly skimmed past it, embarrassed. but a week later she was telling ME about this third level of training blah blah blah and i said "i was there!" she couldn't remember. it happened again telling somebody ELSE about not remembering, who said "well, i was there and i remember."
guess what? i couldn't remember HER being there either. and that seems very odd. there was only ten people, and to this day i cannot actually remember more than one or two people. i find that very disturbing.

By fresh-ex on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 03:56 pm:

to healernomore: a song came to mind after reading yours, and it was always one of my favourites. its off the first talking heads album and its called "no compassion"
good for a laugh.
i have to laugh a little, its what is getting me through this. my new nickname is the manchurian candidate!

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 04:27 pm:

I believe they just got their footing in the U.S. around 2000-2001. I know for sure the first American Masters class was 2002 graduation. I know someone from that class. She is not active and doing her own healing teaching etc. however she is still fearful of them; we laughed one day saying if they find out what she is doing she does not want them doing "10,000" bows with intention to harm her. She is still suspicious of anyone who was active there and wants to say under their radar.

And yes people there are afraid to Trust each other; because they encourage spying and tattle telling. They come right out and ask what we are talking about if we gather in the parking lot. Earlier in my membership my master called a member who was speaking with me in the parking lot and asked what we were talking about?

And do you ever notice how angry the masters get if you have a conversation in the training room with members after class. This is supposed to be sacred space and no trivial or anti-Dahn conversation ( I mean anti Lee) should take place there.

And to Hopeful and others; If they know you are reading this site or Rick Ross they will treat you differently than before. They will not have the same level of Trust in you.
Hopeful I can hear you now; "not my loving Master; she is different; she really loves and cares about me; more importantly she wants me to grow my soul".

Also I would say they are fully aware of this site and the video coming soon; guess they are all in a "flutter" with conference calls and meetings working on saving Lee and the Community.

They are expected to kill for him if necessary. I am not making this up. It is in writing from one of his lectures to Masters.

By Reciprocity on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 04:28 pm:

"the master who tried to trick someone into a greencard marriage by promising her a baby"

That's the one. Greencard marriages imply arranged relationships between strangers that is a serious betrayal of trust, "sleeping with strangers," even if you lot haven't thought it through yet, apparently...

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 04:36 pm:

Very interesting that you and some others are experiencing some memory loss from Dahn experiences. That in itself doesn't make the experiences a bad thing. Stress inducing activities, whether seen as positive or negative, can impair memory of details, and intense experiences that make you focus inward can make you block out attention to the external environment.

Ironically, Ilchi Lee's website says the BRQ enhances memory: "In 1949, Gray Walter discovered that if a specific light frequency is induced, brain waves adjust to the same frequency as the frequency of light. Thereafter, light stimuli along with sound stimuli were used as supporting instruments to stimulate relaxation, relieve stress, increase concentration, and improve meditation. Respiration tools using brain wave alignment principles have been devised to help one experience Brain Respiration more profoundly. Regular light and sound stimuli of the BR-Q induces alpha brain waves, which help maintain a state of relaxation and concentration, enabling one to further immerse oneself in Brain Respiration training. The BR-Q program consists of activating the brain’s functions, increasing concentration and memory, brain potential development, autonomic relaxation, and applied learning."

Some people call these devices "brain entrainment" products. Some people report improvement in brain functioning, deep relaxation, religious experiences, etc.

But, a suggestible hypnotic trancelike state also results from such devices, and if Dahn is inserting their own voice messages into their BRQ device, I can't imagine a more blatant attempt at mind-control than that.

Suziecue

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 05:03 pm:

Fresh-Ex Welcome to the board,

There was some american masters before the 2003 class year. I believe dahn came to america in 1993 or close to it. There was one school which lee supposedly opened himself, it is supposed to be the oldest in the U.S. and it is located in New Jersy. If you see some of the old advertisements for dahn you will recognize some of the american and and korean masters as students. Once they have your picture they will use it forever. They take a lot of pictures don't they. They also videotape everything as well. I believe they do this for training purposes.

There was a time that some healers wanted to get everyone to right letters to Oprah to get lee on her show to promote dahn and world peace. I believe the idea originated from Chicago's centers. She probably would turn him down as she is too busy promoting scientology and Dr. Phil.

I also had the BRQ, it did nothing for me, although some people swore by them. The healers were required to purchase them. I remember a price tag of $500 for the BRQ and the power brains. I wonder if their products are UL certified?

One of the reasons for them picking out a location is the proximity of the korean community. I wonder why so many Korean members drop out of class instead of supporting dahn?

More questions.

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 05:36 pm:

As far as the spying, I have experienced that also. They watch what you eat,when you eat, what you watch on TV and what music you listen to, among other things. They have even interfered with communications with family members. They don't want you to speak to members before or after class. It is so that the masters can control the information and you. If you let them dictate what you do even during your free time then you give them total control over you. If you live at Mago garden you must have your own car, because if you don't you must rely on the masters to give you a ride to town which is about 12 miles away.

If you must stay in dahn try to maintain control over your life if possible.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 05:36 pm:

There may have been a few American Masters prior to 2002. They may have been trained in Korea. Of course it is hard to believe what they say but in our community we believed that ***** was one of the first American Dahn masters. This is the same time that Healer School began. (2002) She was also a member of the First Healer School Class. I have met others in Sedona who were members of the first Healers School as well. All the Healers on this board know whcih class they belong to. I still say they have not been well known until the past few years.

By dahntbefoolednomore on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 07:29 pm:

Hi everyone! I'm new. This is great. And thanks to the QiGong Association for letting us use their message board for this Dahn 'self-help' group. This is so important on many levels:To help each other and to warn others; to share ideas and answer questions. I consider myself fortunate to have only been a member for one month. But, I am out $8,000! There, I've admitted it! Am I a fool or what? I'll share my detalis in later posts (and I plan to do this on a daily basis, like all you dedicated posters before me..this is so important to keep going).
I am just coming out of the initial stages: paranoia and SHAME; It's all my fault,I'm a stupid fool, etc I've been reading Rick Ross and then found this message board, alll of which is such a help getting me through to the next stages: posting here, and believing in 'me' again; being strong and realizing that Dahn is a criminal organization that needs to be exposed.
I'm now talking about it to others, and taking action.
I'd like to say to any Dahn hacks reading here: Thanks, you helped me find my 'true self': a crusader against Dahn: Master ******, you shouldn't have tried to push me in the swimming pool!

By dahntbefoolednomore on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 08:00 pm:

Response to previous question: The headmaster at my center, also the regional director for this city and suburbs, told me she has been here, in this US city, for 8 years. So that would be 1997.

Suggestion: it would be interesting to know what prices are being charged for the various Dahn 'products'. Can y'all share?
They don't publish a price list, which is really shady. I heard they charge different amounts to different people, and on reading all the internet posts, I noticed that the prices people mention aren't the ones I paid. Here are some of mine. (These are very recent):
3-month membership: $450
Private 'Healing' sessions: $200
Initial Awakening: $300
Power Brain: $80 for two
BRQ: $350 (more on that subject later)
Shim sung: $269

By Stillahealer on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 08:16 pm:

These prices sound about right for my area except for the healing sessions. We had to sign up fo at least 10 to begin with so initially $1,000.00; of course we always needed more.

Can't wait to hear how you got from $1,649.00 to $8,000.00. My brain is working overtime.

By hopeful on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 08:28 pm:

fresh ex, you are completely wrong about brq, I have used it a number of times and there is no setting whatsoever where there is talk of the earth and new humans, it only directs you to focus on different parts of your brain. so sorry to foil your negativity. This is exactly how rumors start and spread

By dahntbefoolednomore on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 08:42 pm:

Humor: Even in my darkest Dahn moments, I have been able to see the 'funny' side. That's my personality. It's what keeps me going. I'd like to share some of this:
At shim sung, which was where it hit me like a ton of bricks as soon as I walked through the door that I had unwittingly joined a CULT, the sight of the large power brain, glowing, like a torch, on a stick up on the golden-lit stage, with the HSP SMILE, and the golden THRONE, made me laugh out loud, and, of course, choke it back out of fear... yes, fear.. that I would be caught laughing!
Did anyone at shim sung feel like a child again? They push you around, make you obey the most ridiculous commands; subject you to demeaning psychological bashing; THEN, they make you eat your packed lunch sitting on the floor in your groups, 'sharing', and THEN they make you all lie down on the floor with your blankie and take a NAP! I was in kindergarten! I couldn't stop myself from saying this to someone. It was so ridiculous.

Brainwashing: the day after shim sung I actually went to regular class. This was when I quit Dahn. I went to tell them that I wouldn't be coming to the post shim sung sessions (7 days at 5:30 am at the center! and one evening in regional location --- required!!!)). BUT, at the end of that regular class, the meditation part, where we're all sitting in the lotus position, holding the energy between our palms, the soothing voice on the tape tells us to lift our brains out of our heads, ...sound of trickling water starts....carefully make like we're holding our brains under this stream of pure spring water, and 'wash our brains'. We were brainwashing ourselves. The fact that this is included in their repertoire shows what fools they take us for! I think I was the only class member who saw the irony.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 08:57 pm:

Group sharing in Shim Sung.

Did you notice there is always a "Plant" in your group. Either an experienced Healer or Master to guide you etc., their real purpose is to report back to the Leader everything you shared. What a violation of Trust.
Remember the goal of Shim Sung is to recruit for Healer School.

By Anonymous on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 09:03 pm:

I can't wait to hear about the master pushing you (dahnthefoolednomore) into the swimming pool -- can't imagine.

By dahntbefoolednomore on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 10:07 pm:

The 'swimming pool' is an allusion to one of the 'tales' this 'master' used to use to make her arguments to manipulate you into signing up for more. You have to 'plunge right in the swimming pool', not just dip your toe in the water.

We had to sign up for 6 healing sessions at first.

I initially signed up for 3 month membership, IA, and 6 healing sessions.

Right after the first healing session, ..I'd been a member 2 weeks before I took this, .. she pursuaded me in my trance-like state to get life -time membership, $4500, with $500 off if I paid in one lump sum, and, if I joined then before my first month was up apply my $450 3-month fee to it, bringing it to $3,550.

Which brings me to my theory about the 'private healing sessions'. Maybe it's just me, but I think the purpose of these is to put people in a trance to get them to sign away more money. I talked to other members at my center, and they said the same thing. That's when they were hit up for more money. The sessions are very long and intense. They are also painful. But you come out feeling great. I felt just like I did on morphine after surgery. I put it down to endorphins, morphine-like chemicals the body produces in response to pain and stress. Right after,they get you to sit up on the floor mat and immediately start in on the pitching. It happens really fast. They whip out the contract and get you to sign. On this particular occasion I walked out not realizing that I had actually bought the two power brains and the BRQ also! But I was floating out of the door. It took me at least four hours to come down!

The next healing session she was doing it again! She was telling me I had many blockages and a long way to go and should sign up for 21 more - this is a magic number in Korea - But I managed to say no. I told her that I was coming to learn to 'heal myself' through exercise. The massages were very nice but I wasn't expecting them to 'heal' me.

That's when I started to leave my purse at home.

Even so, at the next session, my third, she started again with the pitching. I thought I was agreeing to three more, plus one free, so generous! - to bring my total to 10, but I found I had signed for 10 more! $2000. So that's the $8000.

Then it was nagging for shim sung; then the sedona video.

I really believe the healing sessions are a tool for tricking people.

I took all 6 of my original sessions. I think what happened was, I rationalized after the Gold membership, that it was worth it for my health, and that a health club for life and private trainer would cost a lot more. Also I'd paid for healing sessiions, and they felt great and I loved the classes, despite the flakiness and, I already knew, pseudo-scientific claims. So I kept going, and kept getting in deeper. This all happened within three weeks!

As for the BRQ, and the power brains. What an absolute con! They don't help me at all. In fact the BRQ made me tense up. I only used mine about twice, when my husband wasn't home, I was too embarassed to show him.

I want to share all this to warn others and maybe piece together, with everyone else's experience, a broader picture.

By dahntbefoolednomore on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 10:30 pm:

Yeh, the plant at shim sung. Each group was led by one. They got you to write out your plan for the next week and year in Dahn. The idea was to get you to say you wanted to got to healer school. I simply wrote that I would go to classes. I watched the 'plant's face as she read mine. Very disappointed. I also didn't complete the questionnaires they gave us at the beginning of each day. I almost didn't go for the second day. It was so traumatic. I had been expecting a physical exercise workshop. I'd had to pretend and play along through the obvious brainwashing. I only went back not to let my partner in the sharing exercises down.

It wasn't even very well done. Very amateurish. I recognized a couple of the exercises they did as common or garden text-book psychology stuff. It was also very haphazard, as if Lee and co just randomly cherry-picked from various sources. But it was disturbing none-the-less. People were sobbing all over the place.

As for the love-bombing for new members. That very quickly disappears at shim sung. You get ordered about and disapproving glares if you don't jump to the orders. I had a coughing fit at one point due to all the shouting. I literally couldn't breath in even slightly wihtout coughing. It lasted about ten minutes. I was in obvious distress, but the only reaction from them was irritation at my disrupting their flow.
So much for the healing and caring.

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 11:51 pm:

dahntbefoolednomore,

You should be very proud of yourself for helping the master achieve the monthly vision. It is members like you that make the masters justify all of the bowing and meditating for their vision.You were probably the talk of the weekly masters meeting. I am sorry you were ripped off and taken advantage of.

I have also heard members advising classmates to leave their wallets at home. Be careful and strong when you do this because some masters are so desparate for income they will give you the product or service on credit. You will be obligated to pay for it at a later date.

Of course it is brainwashing. You help them to do this by agreeing to become: creative,peaceful,and productive powerbrains. You are giving up the analytical part of your brain when you do this. Hence the morphine like feeling, because you have no cares in the world everything is simple and childlike. In the healing room you sre subjected to alot of touching and carefully worded coerciveness. Try to remember what you have told them about your personal problems. They will use this against you in the future when they want you to sign up for something.

Shim sung is designed for you to let go of your self control and inhibitions. When you complete this program you will be more susceptable to the direction the masters want you to go. You will be able to bond with the masters.

By Andrew Nevis on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 12:02 am:

Reading all this about the BRQ takes me back to my dahn days. I asked a Dahn representive about buying another product that was similiar from a cutting edge electronics chain, multi-colored lights, more programmed patterns, better sound and around $100 dollars less than the BRQ. The response I got, "it no good, dahn has more harmonious tones, pay more, get best...". No sale! Why pay more for less even if it has a guru$ seal of approval.
Agree with Hopeful the dahn brq I saw did not have voices discussing earth humans and other notions.
How did I meet the representive? He was at a dahn conference I tried to photograph and tape. Dahn did not want any negative outsiders taking images of the huge, glowing 50's horror movie rotating brain, the expressionless high ranking dahn members and the crowd being kept waiting. The moment a dahned man saw my camera, he blocked my way, and as a co-worker tried to grab the camera. Enlightenment in action? They forced me out of the hall with only a couple of pictures showing dahn obstruction. However, once the outside, the company went into full damage control.
Suggestions to anyone wanting to get material on dahn activities in asia use a small camcorder, turn it on before going in and wear running shoes. Dahn wants to control its images and the sounds.
They don't ming taking your image for promotional activities, but turn the tables, they get nasty.

Isn't openness and honesty part of healing the planet?

By dahntbefoolednomore on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 07:12 am:

It's OK, HealerNoMore, I quit, remember, as soon as I figured out it was a cult at shim sung. I figured out quite early on what they were up to, but not soon enough obviously. I have forfeited my money. I have no intention of going back for my other 10 'healing' sessions.
That day after shim sung and after the class I spoke to another member in the car park, (hiding from their view behind a truck!? Isn't that pathetic?) I told her what I suspected, that it might be some sort of cult, and she agreed about the pitching. I only wish I could go back and warn all the other members.
I went home and looked up 'cults' on the web and found Rick Ross. I was right. It was good to find stories like mine, but horrible at the same time to realize that what I hoped so much would be what it said it was on the surface, was instead a total rip-off. The classes are nice, but only at one very easy level. All members, new and more advanced, get the same classes. There is no 'advancement' within the center. Only weekend 'workshops', at regional centers. which we all know are not workshops at all but brainwashing.
The smiles and hugs and I love yous are calculated to trick you.
I spent several weeks in a terrible state of mind. Now, I'm not usually like this. I've handled our home finances, for the last 23 years of marriage, and am very good at it. I am not a spendthrift at all! I am a health professional, and am always told how 'together' and calm I am. I have two grown sons. I am also, I stress, not a religious person, at all. I do not accept that any human being ever, has the answer to the 'meaning of life' etc. I simply do not follow. I am the most cynical and skeptical person I know. So, my point is, if this can happen to me, it really can happen to anyone, in the right circumstances.
Anyone reading this who is considering joining: DON'T.
Some of the members I met were in much worse physical shape than me. One woman suffered from severe depression and was at shim sung with me. She was really falling for it big time. I feel so badly for her. The members I met were all really nice, gentle people. Like lambs to the slaughter.
Some were recently widowed and senior citizens! One a single mom! Dahn is so callous it doesn't care whose money it takes.
I keep thinking of all the worthy causes I could give all that money to. The thought of that con-man having it makes me so angry.

By dahntbefoolednomore on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 08:13 am:

Andrew, about the BRQ. I wouldn't be surprised to find that Lee copied the idea for the BRQ from that electronics chain model you talk about, just like they stole the healing chakra straight from the color breathing product by that UK woman. Sorry, I forget her name.
Which brings me to another aspect of Dahn that I think would be good to discuss here, if anyone has any input: ie it's total fakeness. It's a collection of bits of other peoples' ideas thrown together and called an 'ancient Korean' practice. Also, anyone go far back enough to know which bits were from the start of the organization, and which are just thrown in at later dates, as Lee's cronies find more useful gismos and ideas to steal from other people and throw in to the Dahn pot?
Let's start with one of its 'titles': Yoga. The center I attended was called, simply, Dahn YOGA center. Big letters on the front of the building. However, from the little I know about yoga, what is actually practiced has absolutely no yoga in it at all. First, the obvious, Yoga is Indian. Then, Yoga concentrates on slow, steady movements, and holding positions for long times. Dahn is mostly rapid paced in comparison. They use a few Yoga terms like 'Chakras' and 'Lotus position' to sit and meditate.
They use the term Yoga to trick people into walking in the door.
Then, Tai Chi. That's on the brochure, along with 'Yoga'. I know nothing about that. But I've read here and other places that that's also a sham. Also, Tai Chi is Chinese.
Again, a tool to trick people. Yoga and Tai Chi are recognizable names to westerners now, and 'safe'.
But, wait a minute: when you get through the door, and pay to join, you are told that Dahn is an ancient Korean practice. Uh? What is it then? Is it yoga? or is it Tai Chi? or is it an ancient Korean practice?
These are all questions I should have thought of asking BEFORE. But, thta's ancient history now.
Then there's the exercises. I remember thinking that these exercises were all familiar to me from regular classes at the Y and such, for decades. Stretching, neck-rolling everything; except the tapping and abdominal exercisesand 'legs-in-and-out'. So did the Lee invent these just a decade or so ago? Again, should have acted on these thoughts. But I remember being relieved that they were easier than I expected at first as I am really in bad physical shape due to hip and leg problems.
Just want to say here, that this might be another thread of discussion: all the questions and misgivings people might have had at the beginning, but were too polite, or too intimidated to ask.
Also, I think it's also important not just to dwell on our experiences and get stuck commiserating with each other, but to share ideas about how to stop or slow Dahn down. I have written to BBB and Attorney General, credit card company, and yes, Dahn. I really don't expect any money back, but I think it's important for us to write anyway. If the authorities get enough complaints, it might at least put Dahn on their radar. I'm sure their dealing are shady enough bordering on illegal.

By DahnWatcher on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 08:32 am:

I'm glad I found this site... I almost got suckered in by the Love Bombing and everything else... but something just never felt right in my gut. I got close to one of the past instructors at the Sedona Dahn Center, Master Park, who was deeply loved by many people here. She was "moved out" of the location for not generating enough new members and the way it was handled was secretive, dirty and underhanded. It also broke her heart. The new person they brought in is cold, greedy, manipulative and completely out of touch with his feelings -- but he is a "Master" we are all supposed to look up to and revere and take advice from? He told me that he wanted me to sign up for a year program, that it would be good for me and "good for the Center to have you here on a more permanent basis." I told him I didn't trust him and I would give it 30 days. They didn't charge me for the next 30 days, but every time I came into the center, every conversation I had with staff was monitored and eavesdropped on by him, even from across the hall! He made no excuse for this, just accepted Nazi tactics.

They held an event at New Frontiers last month and called me at home to ask me to go and help out at the booth. At first I was honored they wanted me there -- I mattered to them! But the reality is that I was just another warm body to work for them for free. I also started noticing how many hours I would spend at the Center -- like a black hole, it would just gobble up my time, because no one there has any life outside of it. It's like the outside world, with other people, interests, loves, demands, obligations, and FUN! just doesn't exist. That also felt weird.

Then they asked me to do more things for them, and I started to wonder why they weren't offering to compensate me for my time. I also noticed the slave-like way the Masters are treated -- expected to work 20 hour days six days a week. There was also this odd asexuality among them -- like they never thought of it, or it just wasn't allowed. This is not normal -- these are beautiful young people in the most virile time in their lives -- and yet, they don't have relationships at all and don't seem to even think about it -- or about themselves as people at all. Everything is focused on Dahn and the Center. This is not right.

If I join a yoga studio, the studio does not expect me to perform manual labor or marketing duties for it. And if it does, it will offer compensation in some way -- free classes, etc. The Dahn Center sucks everything into it and offers nothing in return.

I also wanted to know where all the money went, since the products, brochures and everything are obviously very expensive. Where is their non-profit work? How are they practically healing the sick, comforting the hurting, feeding the hungry? Not surprisingly, there is none of this.
"Every dollar gets put into creating new centers to spread the message" I was told. B-S. Exercise doesn't heal the world -- compassion and works for others do.

Like so many others on this site, and who are still involved with Dahn, I was lonely and confused when I wandered into the place... and one day I looked around and all I saw were other lonely people, disconnected from the world due to transitional events in their lives. And that made me wonder, too. Why weren't more members happily married? Involved in long-term jobs? Most of them were jobless, due to health issues or other emotional problems and were alone, for a variety of reasons.

I confronted the new Master and told him I didn't trust him, and that my gut feeling told me that there was something not right about the organization. I told him something was very corrupt about it. He got visibly uncomfortable and then challenged my gut feelings, telling me that the mind has power over everything and we should never trust our "gut" feelings. Well, that alone was a big tip-off. Someone telling you to go against your inner instincts is always wrong. I came in that day determined to quit, but he persuaded me to give it one more shot.

The next time I came in another Master I felt very close to sat me down in a private room and told me she loved me. This felt really weird and out of place. Did she tell all members she loved them? I'd never heard her say that to anyone in class before. Why should she love me? She doesn't really know me, I thought. But hey, I was just out of a 20-year relationship and had just moved to Sedona from CA, and I needed to be loved. So I accepted it -- warily. THEN she proceeds to tell me that as members, we need to TRUST the Masters and that it's important to her that I trust her. Well, that came directly out of my "private" conversation with Master Jao. So much for trusting them.

I travel alot and had time to get away from the constant love-bombing, which is addictive. We all crave love, and I admit, when I walk into the Center and everyone stops what they're doig to hug and greet me, I feel good. Who wouldn't?
But it is not real, and I really struggled with this for several weeks. I am not a person who is easily duped, believe me. But I was so wanting to feel loved and special that it almost got me.

No one has asked me for money, and I haven't paid a cent since the first month I joined. I think they are afraid to ask me!

I consider myself lucky to have had the strength, despite my weakness and vulnerability, to escape this before it was too late. Just the way the organization exploits its people is enough for me not to support it. My heart goes out to everyone on this site who thought they were being loved and was exploited in return.
That is the most egregious spiritual sin -- to offer love in the guise of something else. I hope the Dahn Way is exposed for the vicious lie it is.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 08:58 am:

One idea may be to talk to your local Conservative Talk Radio and see if they will do an investigation. (Never thought I would be looking to them for help) They may take up this banner since this group has anti-Christian bias.
Who knows Bill O'Rilley may pick up on it as well.

Also contact the large money churches in your area asking to warn members. I usually send the link to this site.
Yes; we must take some action every day to get the word out.
And of course the state attorney general; I reported to our state attorney general these business practices are similar to the old "Pigeon Drop"
Remember the old "pigeon drop" scams where old people are told that a stranger has won the lottery but they need her cash to claim the prize. Later they will split the winnings with them. This situation the prize is Enlightenment after you pay, and pay and pay.

And Tammy Faye and Jimmy Bakker paid for their crimes.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 09:58 am:

You may want to write Dr. Fasti who wrote Dahn Hak's Pathway to Healing
He interviewed 35 members and published this booklet which has been distributed all over the U.S. and Korea.

You may wish to urge Dr. Fasti to follow up with the original interviewees and interview some of the people on this site. In this manner he may be able to repay society for the damage this organization has done by using this book for marketing purposes.

Albert J. Fasti, D.M.D., M.A.G.D.

West Houston Center for Cosmetic
and Restorative Dentistry
(281) 497-7510
909 Dairy Ashford Street, Suite 105, Houston, TX 77079

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 11:30 am:

Hopeful, ask your center about Quan Tae Kim's PhD degree from Pacific Western University.

(You must have already asked about Lee's doctorate degree, right? Did Lee get his title of Dr. Lee because he graduated from Yuin U., an unaccredited rinky dink college in Ca.?)

Quan Tae Kim is the Vice President of Ilchi Lee's "International Graduate University for Peace" in Korea. He is also President and Treasurer of Dahn World, Inc., and Director of the Dahn Institute in Sedona Arizona. He is co-director of the New Millennium Peace Foundation, along with Hanne Strong (wife of the UN's Maurice Strong), Neale Donald Walsch ("Conversations with God" book, etc.), Seung Heun Lee, and two of Lee's Arizona lawyers.

His bio at the IGUP website says he got a PhD from PACIFIC WESTERN UNIVERSITY.

What these enlightened peace leaders don't tell you is this:

"The Investigators on Eyewitness News 4 show you Degrees for Sale.

(Online commercial: ) "Hi, and welcome to Pacific Western University. You no longer need to sit in a classroom to learn and earn a bachelor, masters or doctorate degree in order to grow and earn more as a professional."

This is an online ad for Pacific Western University. But it may not tell the whole story.

Pacific Western is one of seven schools labeled as a diploma mill by federal investigators at the U.S. General Accounting Office.

Their report was used in a senate investigation this year.

Many online schools are perfectly legitimate. But diploma mills issue degrees sometimes without requiring any student academic work or based solely on "life experience."

The rest of the story:
http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=2578367&nav=J7NmTESg

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 11:38 am:

I wouldn't recommend going to a conservative Christian program because it could look anti-Dangun (there is a history of Christian versus Dangun in Korea), or anti-New Age. Getting ripped off. feeling pressured and feeling manipulated is a secular issue.
Go to Dateline or 20-20, or a similar expose type of program that can't be accused of having a religious agenda. My opinion.

Send a copy of your complaints to your state Attorney General to the Attorney General in AZ too. That is Ilchi Lee's American business base.

Best of luck to you all.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 12:00 pm:

Someone brave enough to email him and ask him to join this discussion?

You can email him from his website at http://www.houstoncosmeticdentist.net/Biography.htm

Be nice! He sounds like a really good person and I am sure he was sincere in his devotion. He may not know what happens at the masters level.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 12:01 pm:

That web address is regarding Dr. Fasti; forgot to mention that.

By HealerNoMore on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 12:54 pm:

dahntbefoolednomore,

I spent four years and lost in excess of $50,000 through various programs and such. I so deeply trusted my "master" I would have done almost anything. She guided me right into the verge of bankruptcy. There was even a suggestion to take money out of my 401k retirement plan. These masters have no morals. They are con artists and thieves. There are a few who believe they are helping you as they take your money and sign you up for programs, but they are in the extreme minority. I have personally warned many people but they had a hard time believing what I was saying to them. They trusted the masters completely. Some american masters with gave up good paying jobs with benefits to be there only to find out what a big lie it was. You will be a slave to dahn if you continue to donate all you time to them. You will be dependant on them.

They will love bomb you into thinking they really care for you. When they have what they want they move on to another mark. You will keep quiet to avoid embarassment and to protect the master. They train you not to tell anything about the programs to others. Shimsung is an example. "DO YOUR BEST!"

Has anyone ever done NHS level 2 more than body? One of the exercises is to laugh uncontrollably and to cry uncontrollably. This is done to be in charge of your emotions. The next time the masters are trying to convince you to do something watch them laugh or cry (I have experienced both and fell for it everytime). This is a technique used to manipulate your emotions, it is not real. They don't care about you only about how to get something you have.

Music manipulation is another way they manipulate members. Listen to some of the lyrics. One example is, "You raise me up". Yes they raise you up so that you are not aware they are ripping you off.

How many of you started to quote the masters in order to convince other members that a program was necessary and really a great experience?

Watch your behavior. You will be amazed that you are not aware of what you are doing.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 01:08 pm:

The bio on Quan Tae Kim at the IGUP website also says that he is the Regional Chief in Washington DC and LA for "Saegye Times." There are other branches of the Saegye Times (NY and Chicago) that are known fronts for Sun Myung Moon ("Moonies"). Is he the Regional Director for a Moon front? Fake PhD and a Moonie too?!

By Stillahealer on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 01:16 pm:

"How many of you started to quote the masters in order to convince other members that a program was necessary and really a great experience"?

My biggest regret is not the loss of $40K or three years of time away from my work and family; I can live with these poor decisions.
Remembering how I spoke their loaded language to members who trusted me. Not answering specific questions posed by members, telling them how wonderful the training was, that money comes and goes, bla, bla, bla. I have to live with myself, because I knew deep down that it was a scam.

By hopeful on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 04:08 pm:

Ok, so here was their first mistake with me, they have had my check for advanced healer school for over a month without cashing it. Here I am just days away from going to Sedona and this morning I stopped payment on the check. The check itself is not for the full amount but it is the bulk of the amount due, I put just a little bit of it on a credit card. My point is had they cashed it sooner I probably would've gone because "why waste the money, I already paid for it..." But they didnt cash it and it was/is just sitting in my checking account waiting for them to take it, everyday I'd check to see if it went thru and nope, and everyday I'd check this message board and other literature on organizations that may be controversial. I reached this morning and I couldnt take it anymore, and I stopped payment. Here I am sitting here with money for them waiting for them to take it and they just won't!!! I figured well I can still go I am sure but I needed to "buy" myself more time. It really really bothers me that here I am ready to go, and have been waiting for sooo long to do this training and now I am considering staying home. I have received a direct email from the author of a very popular book on cults and he even warned me to stay away, he has already counseled a number of people who have left dahn. BUT STILL, I admit I want to go. I love dahn. I love sooomuch about it. I still may go because not only do I want to I dont want that $$ to go to waste; the money which they already have for my room and board and my plane ticket, and the amount I put on my credit card and from what I am hearing it doesnt look good that I will get those funds back. I have/had such a strong vision of what I want my life with dahn to be like and I know I would be a great master in training, or at the very least a great myungsa. I just hate all of this. I dont even mind the idea od bowing to Lee. It is my opinion that we have a very western judeo-christian mindset and the idea of bowing to another is blasphemous to many. My opinion is there are a great many people who set up puja table or devotional spaces and they include a picture of a guru or spiritual leader and they devote their practice with complet love to their master, it isnt anything out of the ordinairy unless you are un aware of this "universal" practice among yogis and devoted students following a spiritual path. My point is none of that bothers me and on some level I really want to grow deep with dah but like I said I cant get past this pulling feeling that I shoudn't go. This is a very challenging time for me on so many levels as some of you are aware. What makes me even more sad and guilty feeling is that there are members of my own center who know I visit this board including my own master and I am afraid of letting them down if they read this. IF they read this. I am so torn between so many things, in my personal life and my life with dahn. Dahn has become such a part of me that I cant imagine not utilizing all of it and just letting it all go. But isnt that part of it all. Lee even says you must give up all attachments well I guess that means dahn too if you aren't operating from a place of mu-ah.

By Stillahealer on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 04:21 pm:

Dear Dear Hopeful; I love and support you even if you go. Just ask yourself. Would you rather dissapoint yourself, your family or the Dahn Master who will be totally out of your life in six months?

Yes, I have read about the adoration of the Guru in other cultures; which is why The Life of Milarepa was required reading for Myungsa Training. I thought I could stomack it; but I got physically ill when it was time to do the three bows.
I could give such homage to the local masters much easier than Lee.
You can change your airline ticket for $75.00 (as you know)
You can use the room if you decide to go at a later time.

You do have a beautiful honest soul, which is one of the reasons you are attracted to such a Great Vision; or so it seems.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 04:52 pm:

\Hopeful, and I see you are sincerely struggling with this. I feel very sad for you and even had to pause and question if we are all doing the right thing here with all these warnings. I think we are. I for one feel compelled by a moral obligation.

Maybe you can take some space from Dahn? Not quit, but take a leave. Take time to see if what you are reading here is true about Dahn, even if not true at your center. Maybe look at some other sources for the same kind of spiritual awakening, in the meantime, and ask yourself what sets them worlds apart from Dahn World Inc. -- even with their alters and gurus. Maybe take some time to focus on your beautiful family before you lose it, to get expert marriage counseling, to really communicate deeply with your wife and try to get back what you had before. I truly wish you the best. You are sincere, and I apologize for having doubted your sincerity. Please forgive me.

Suziecue

By NoMore Lies on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 06:58 pm:

Hopeful,
Things don't happen by chance. You placed a question out into the universe and now you have received your answer.

Spiritual growth happens just when you are at a crossroad. Can you take heed to "the inner voice" or will you follow the rational "ego"?

Many here can relate to your sense of feeling the "dahn bubble burst". You can still enjoy the benefits of your regular membership.

You were led to this board for a reason. You have the love & compassion of many dahn exmembers---it's just not feeling the love "inside" Dahn only---It's universal love.

"What is needed is an honest observation, self-reliance and respect for truth. The days of know-it all gurus are over. It is time to realize the source of all things directly. Why not go directly to the source of all gurus and religions through your own meditation." quote from Christopher Calder

Keep connecting to your Higher Self! It will always be your choice--Universal Law=Free Will.

By NoMoreLies on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 07:18 pm:

Hopeful,

I forgot to mention. You can request a refund. I have assisted several healers thru the process. The key is to know what you want and don't be tenative.

Since you have a good repoire with your Master, let them prove to you how much he/she loves you by refunding your money.

If it's not about money...don't hide behind it. Meditate and Watch...

Message to Stillahealer,

I repeated the same "brain washed" garbage to members and healers alike. I asked for forgiveness for not having the discernment I now possess.

I decided to dedicate time to this board to help others in honor of the members/healers I could not reach upon my departure.

I continue to send them love and it has helped me overcome the "regrets".

P.S.-Your forgiven too!

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 07:31 pm:

Hi

http://crdiary.blogspot.com/2005/05/escaping-
cult.html

http://0no.tripod.com/http
http://www.koreabridge.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2483&st=30&#entry30957

http://www.howcultswork.com/

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?

http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_guruphiliac_archive.html
http://anyboard.net/rec/Asian_Mu_Do/posts/647.html

By fresh-ex on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 07:34 pm:

Hopeful(hopefully): i am sharing what i remember, not trying to upset people, so just take it easy, ok?
this is devastating for me, for all of us. i thought i had a job, a community, and caring teachers for life. well guess what? i have been gone for one week, and not one phone call. not one!! where's the love?
i was crying all morning. its TERRIBLE. its a huge change. but i am not lashing out at other people. i am glad you stopped that check- glad for you. and "watch"... watch the changes. if you think you are being monitored, why do you want anything to do with it, anyways?

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 07:51 pm:

Thanks for the kinds words NoMoreLies.

And Fresh-ex. I too was shocked by the fact that almost noone contacted me after I left. I was especially sad about a fellow healer who regularly told me how much my friendship meant to him; we are on this journey together; friends for life etc. I never heard one word from him; even though we had another relationship outside of Dahn.
Fortunataly I had other Dahn friends who quit around the same time; we have become even better friends now.
Keep the faith. This is a big loss; I know.

Still a Healer

By HealerNoMore on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 08:11 pm:

Once you leave dahn you must accept the fact that you leave all your close friends behind. Soon after leaving you will realize they were not your friends because you no longer share the vision. You now have bad energy. Congratulations!

I thought I had many friends in dahn, especially the masters, but I quickly found out I was wrong. The truth hurts, but it is necessary to grow. I do feel sorry for my ex-friends who are still there because they are not awake to the reality yet. Once they leave they will go through the same process.

Congratulations Hopeful. I wish you well.

I asked a master about the Moonies once and she replied "Who are they?". If they don't want to answer they change the subject or pretend not to understand you or worst case(mine) "Why do you focus on being negative all the time?". Now you must do more training to bring the energy down to your danjun. If you think too much they try to get you to focus on your danjun, this helps you forget what you are doing and they are able to manipulate you much easier.

By NoMoreLies on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 09:21 pm:

Fresh-Ex,

It may be hard right now experiencing the full spectrum of your emotions---cry, shout, express it all.

Please know that I witnessed firsthand how Masters "switch on" and then "switch off" their "true-selves".

The lack of a phone call(from the Master) is another tactic of theirs to emotionally "make you come back". If you are from a center with full-time staff(other than the Master(s), they may be ordered to call you after sometime has past.
Note: It's the end of the month and the Masters are busy completing all of the required paperwork to submit to the D.C.O.(Dahn Center Office)- Mesa,AZ before the deadline to avoid "paying" a penalty.

You made the right decision---no judgement of yourself. Keep reading this board.

By Anonymous on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 09:33 pm:

Anonymous 5/30 1:01 pm, most of your links aren't working, but this one worked and IT IS FANTASTIC. Fits Dahn precisely.

This one: http://www.howcultswork.com

By Smile on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 10:09 pm:

Reading all of the opinions expressed on this site allowed me to pay attention to my instincts. I came to this so called Yoga centre with all the naivete of a child expecting a miraculous transformation of mind, body and soul. I have spent most of my 61 years worrying. Very little attention was every given to healthy pursuits such as breathing or exercise. Then last fall cancer became my reality. Surgeries, and radiation followed. The prognosis is good but my worrying did not abate. What now?... What to do to recharge my batteries,restore confidence and hope. Get busy and get active I was told. Wake up and get a life. How, where can I do this?The Dahn Center was suggested as just the place to take me to be healed. Welcome, welcome, we will help you. My master was the most lovely and assured young woman. Her sincerity, strength, skills and devotion to restore my health was very humbling. I'm not quite sure even as I write what happened in the little room on the floor on the mat. I think you might say I broke apart, the pain I felt was almost more than I could bear and she gave words to my fears, that I was dying. She said I could begin now, just as a new baby is born and she would help me. I wanted desperately to believe. Then came the pitch, quietly, very firmly, she suggested that I consider signing up for lifetime membership. I chose one year and the cost of one uniform was charged to my credit card. All of this done in the little room on the floor mat. I felt such joy, that I was doing something really good for me. But, I was a little surprised at how trusting, ready, easily and willingly I had just charged over $1000.00.What's next?... First class...what, no special compensations for a neglected and out of shape body, breathless and sweaty. One,two,three-louder, louder. I strained to try, to keep jumping, shaking, stretching, dancing and with a smile. This was followed by tea and sharing. If this is Yoga, I love it! I felt new energy in my body and was happy that I was particapating with other like minded souls. What's next?...suggestion of 6 healing sessions at the cost of $900.00 booked in the little room on the floor mat. Tickets $10 each for event in June, take 8, why not buy them for friends and family. I paid for 4 and returned 4. Starting to feel the pitch again, very firmly, very quietly. What's next?...the straw that broke the camels back, Shim-Sung training $280.00, but I can't,a family Birthday. Tried to say no several times and was met with very strong suggestions to be there. What's next?... Look up on the internet to see if any information available to shed some light and voila! What's next?...decisions, even though I love the classes I will not go back. I believe that the intentions of the people I met at the Dahn Centre are mostly good, but I do question their methods of enrolment, withholding information, bowing exercises and pressure tactits for enlightenment training courses. I feel very disappointed, somewhat lighter of purse, but, I am rewarded by the knowing that I will uncover, discover and recover on this journey called life. Nothing changes if nothing changes. I hope my experience will help others who have questions and concerns regarding the motives and integrity of this type of training program??? Peace to all.

By HealerNoMore on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 11:24 pm:

I was on the receiving end of the silent treatment once. I have seen this done to other members and remember thinking how weak they were, until it happened to me. Even though I saw it for what it was I was desperate to be back in the good graces of the master and agreed to the demands. I look back now and I am reminded of how manipulative the masters are towards the members. I also think they start out like us and then get so twisted into the ideology they will give up their souls to please lee.

Did you know when there is a party at a center the members are encouraged to bring food,etc. They also encourage members to prepare for the party with decorations and such. The masters don't pay for anything, it is strictly from the members. This is another tactic to get members to do what they want. Next time see who is the most active at the party and you will see the next mark, I mean healer candidate.

By HealerNoMore on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 11:31 pm:

I used to hate calling members to come back to class. I found the whole practice degrading to both me and the member. This is indicative of the masters trying to have control over the lives of members. I know some healers who work almost 8 hours per day at the center. They also have families to take care of when they get home. I don't understand how they are so compelled to leave their spouses and children to work for free. If they enjoy working so much they should stay on their real jobs, at least they get pay and benefits.

By Petrice on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:00 am:

I have been reading all of your entries over the past few days and am overwhelmed by the number of good people who are hurting and strugglng over thier experience with Dahnhak. I won't say much at this point becuase it's late and I'm exhausted. But as a new ex-Dahn member after finishing up the professional level of healer school in 10th term, I am taking some time to contemplate what my next step will be. I trust that I was brought to this practice for many reason, many of then I already know. But it appears that there me be more. How many of you would be interested in going to a support group or meeting of sorts if there was one in your area? Since my area is pretty big with a potential for many such persons, it might just work. I wouldn't want it to be a bitch session, but more a place where we could have healthy community with a sincere intention for healing and connection without the "higher" purpose. I would only ask for a donation to help cover costs and only as an option. I would also like to make available private counseling on a sliding scale for those who may need more support in healing the wounds that being in Dahn caused. This is still in the brainstorming stages but would really appreciate your feedback and ideas.

Thank you all for your heartfelt comments and time and energy spent doing your part to help others. Together we can help each other heal from the trauma that may have occured. The retraumatization that I am seeing with so many who have gone through this is so disturbing. Many are drawn to Dahn becuase they seemingly meet the needs we so desparately needed and lacked while we were children such as unconditional love and acceptance and belonging. The touch and affection seems to genuine because I believe so many of the sbns are victims themselves of the brainwashing. They truly believe in what they are selling whish is why it is so powerful. And why it's so dangerous. the member is lead to believe they can trust and open up and then they are abused and taken advantage of in a time of waeakness and vulnerablity. It's a crime to use these sacred and ancient techniques to open a persons chakras and then pounce once they have you open and vulnerable. So sad, so wrong and so tragic. This creates deeper wounds in those seeking healing on the deepest core level of their being. Together we can do our part to help others as we pray that this organization gets exposed for what they are doing and hopfully clean up their act. We all know that the practice itself is pure, powerful, and everything they say it is. It's just the intention in which it is used by so many in the system that makes it bad. We are lucky to have one center in our region that broke off from Dahnhak and is still offering the same great exercise classes. That is the ideal situation, I believe.

Anyway, I really must sleep but your feeback would be most appreciated.

By clockwork on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 05:38 am:

Hopeful, I am so happy for you. It is a fact that a person must always listen to their instincts, they are yours and you have them for a reason. You will do what you need to do, you will. All of this worrying you are doing over Dahn and the masters, take that energy and put it into the real, true impotant things in you life such as wife and children. I wish you the best of luck, it is a hard road.
Fresh Ex,Smile,Petrice,Dahn Watcher, Dahntbe fooled no more, I am glad you have all decided to join us. I owuld love to work together and attempt to stop Dahn. You have all given me wonderful ideas and new knowledge about how slimy Dahn really is. Thank you all.

By Stillahealer on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 06:49 am:

Petrice; count me in.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 11:39 am:

Petrice, what area of the country (I assume US) are you in?

I think "bitching" (explaining what happened and how badly it hurt) is part of the release and helps to sort out what happened and eventually where the responsibility lies. Maybe you meant not to get stuck at the bitching stage, that one must move on to resolution and healing.

We look forward to hearing your own personal story too,and what makes you want to leave Dahn.

You said: "We are lucky to have one center in our region that broke off from Dahnhak and is still offering the same great exercise classes."

I would like to hear more about how this came about. I would think that Dahn owners and masters would have gone all out to stop this (legally, manipulatively, or otherwise)

Thanks! Hope you slept well.

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:15 pm:

NoMoreLies, if you don't mind my asking: What did you mean when you said masters have to submit their report "before the deadline to avoid "paying" a penalty."? What kind of payment; emotionally feeling like a failure or actual money?

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:27 pm:

Here is another song to help you on you way.

Sung by BJ Thomas

I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It's gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.
I think I can make it now, the pain is gone
All of the bad feelings have disappeared
Here is the rainbow I've been prayin' for
It's gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.
Look all around, there's nothin' but blue skies
Look straight ahead, nothin' but blue skies
I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It's gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:34 pm:

I remember the month end reports well. The masters must do all of the accounting and report it to DCO. All of the information must be in by the designated date. This includes all money deposited and sale items such as books,powerbrains,uniforms,etc., accounted for just like a real business. Most money is deposited on a daily basis. They are not allowed to have more than they need and that is why they need the members to donate supplies,etc. Since most masters don't have any real work experience it can be a trying time for anyone near them as they struggle their way through it. I am not sure what the penalties are other than public humiliation on the masters website. Sometimes a picture is posted for all to see.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:56 pm:

"I am not sure what the penalties are other than public humiliation on the masters website. Sometimes a picture is posted for all to see."

Thanks for the answer, HealerNoMore. This must be a private masters-only website. Never saw this, myself.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 01:02 pm:

I believe I saw an interest expense on the monthly balance sheet; which may be the penalty. Just a guess; you know it is always about the money at your loving Dahn Center.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 01:16 pm:

Here is my personal opinion.

I am still involved in Dahn hak, however, I am keeping my wallet closed. My skeptiscism went up when last night, the instructor was telling me how "pure" I am, and how I "needed" to attend the Healing Chakra seminar, and I think she alluded to something like "spreading the healing". She sounded really hokey, telling me which Chakra of mine was weak, (in my case #3, Life, self -control, will, discipline, self-esteem), and if I attend this seminar, she will help me through post-seminar training, and how so "important it was to her too". That, and not respecting my time, (the classes never end when they are supposed to) gave me the red flag warning.

I really do not have a problem with this institution. I've studied Yoga, Tai Chi and Meditation, all the methods used here, are documented in the mainstream. Outside Dahn Hak, Yoga does have a very positive place in anyones life, which is why there are different poses, for different ills, (respiratory, infertility, etc... ) Its a known fact the mind/body are connected. Anyone who can control their stress levels, can control their life span to a degree. Ever do those "real age" quizzes?? When trying to score your stress level, if it is considered high, 10 years gets magically added to your life. So there is a place for yoga, this center just being one of them. It gives me the structure, and the routine I need to progress in strength, flexability and stamina. Yoga is one of those things thats hard to do correctly with out a knowledgeable instructor.

And with Dahn Hak, the classes are never the same. You get a balance of Tai Chi, Yoga, and cardio exercises. The meditation gives the brain a much needed break from brain chattering, we all can fall ill to if obsesses with something. (Whether if its a lover, getting pregnant, going to law school,) we have all been in situations where we pounded our heads in frustration, to our demise, to get to the next level.

A lot of people do not know how to relax, and a lot of times, thats all your body needs, and it needs it constantly. Ideally, you should do Yoga through out the day to keep your energy up. When I do this, it works.

So with that being said, just do not engage in anything outside the classes. Don't let the people talk you into their high priced seminars. You can learn how to meditate in other ways.

In my center, the instructors know which people are an easy target. You know, the people who are there all the time like clock work, and can actuall concentrate through meditation sequences. I noticed how the people that had been at the center for a long time, have dates written on their jackets, and I am sure they have spent some serious money.

But my plan is to do this for three months, and then take another yoga class for another three months, like Bikram.

The whole expensive enlightenment thing does not go over well with me, as there are a lot of innocent people that get scammed. But as a CPA, I see it every day in the business world, especially among banks, mortgage brokers, etc...They do it everyday. Business were meant to sell people things they do not need, and a "power brain" is one of those things. Its a vibrator. Take it or leave it.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 01:29 pm:

Yes, do stay there and try to tell others that they only need the exercise part. Pass along this link. Whats different about this business compared to other profit motivated institutions like banks etc, is people expect them to make money and return an investment to shareholders. They are regulated with full financial disclosure.
These people pretend they are growing your soul, with no public disclosure of income/ expenses etc.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 02:14 pm:

Yoga and Tai Chi may be documented in the mainstream, but i dont believe that the "yoga" and "tai chi" you are practicing at Dahn is the documented "mainstream" version that everyone is familiar with

By Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 02:21 pm:

Well said, anonymous May 31, 6:59.

Anon 6:46, I think you made some good points, but there is no need for anyone to support a manipulative organization that preys upon people's need for love and spirituality to draw them deeper and deeper into dependency on their money-sucking greedy cult, which we know turned fatal for at least one devotee. Just because you saw through it early on and can resist the pressure, you can see here that others are more vulnerable and susceptible. Warning to keep your wallet shut will not help them. What will help them is if people stop giving them their money, not even for 6 months. All those masters are victims, and they are turned into perpetrators.

Not at all critcizing what you said; your post will surely help other people. Just trying to add that it would help more if people didn't support them at all. These people know NOTHING about health and healing, and people would realize this if they stop and think about how they led Julia Siverls to her death while training.

How many others in Dahn experience illness, exhaustion, and physical injuries? Mental breakdowns? Do they take responsibility when this happens? Medical insurance? Workers Comp payments? Banks don't expect you to worship and follow them. More than a business here; more like the Moonies.

SuzieCue

By NoMoreLies on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 03:39 pm:

In response to the question on the penalty fees.

All I know is the Master(where I was employed) would say in front of me, this paperwork has to go out by today or I will be charged a penalty fee. I don't know the amount or if the penalty was charged to the center's bank account or the Master's personal bank account.

NML

By dahntbefoolednomore on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 06:13 pm:

Our center had a basket next to the power brains for donations to pay for batteries.

I remember thinking after just a couple of weeks, 'do the masters ever stop working?' The same two of them just always there. At that time I was totally unsuspecting of the Dahn I now know. I felt sorry for them. Even though the headmaster is really a master manipulator, I agree they themselves are victims. The younger master who I first saw is a really young, sweet, quiet, beautiful Korean girl, far away from her home and family. After the first week I was there she was moved to another center.

Lee is a monster.

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 08:29 pm:

Some masters live in the center, but others go to a communal home and live with room mates. They sleep all male or all female to each room, no mixing. The masters are taught (brainwashed) into believing that the center is their life and they must protect it at all costs. One master even told me he would give his life for the center. I thought he was joking. They take this very seriously because lee is their god and he protects and guides them. Nobody but lee could have created an organization to save the world. He did start in the park teaching to just one student. I wonder how much money he got from him?

On a different note, I was told once by a master that if we focus on the dahn center we will grow our souls much quicker because there is no outside interference to focus on. We won't have the time to let our emotions get in the way and slow our progress. So that means we must sacrifice our loved ones, hobbies, and our life as we knew it. In a twisted way it almost makes sense. lee says something similar with the eye of the needle analogy.

By Andrew Nevis on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 10:56 pm:

Lee does have the hunger to be worshipped. There are times he has tried to do this with stealth. A person related to me, that Dahn tried to give Korean high schools statues of a famous, historic figure. The offer was rejected, as the statues all looked too much like Lee.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Dahn.

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 06:08 am:

HealerNoMore, about your comment may 31, 01:59 pm,"On a different note, I was told once by a master that if we focus on the dahn center we will grow our souls much quicker because there is no outside interference to focus on. We won't have the time to let our emotions get in the way and slow our progress. So that means we must sacrifice our loved ones, hobbies, and our life as we knew it."

That is in fact a perfect example of the glaring contradictions that riddle everything about what Dahn says and does: One of its claims is to rid us of the busy-ness and clutter in our lives, our focus on meaningless tasks. We are told we focus too much on work and other worldly tasks. But in that quote he's asking his masters to keep even more busy, with worldly tasks no less, than the average workaholic. So busy they don't have time to focus on themselves?....to think?

One of the things I've been doing recently is reading his book: the Healing Society, (which I was 'given' for $13.95 to read before shim sung, but didn't read till after! Wish I had!). It is one of the worst-written, most illogical garbage I have ever read, but I'm disciplining myself to keep going. I'm taking notes and critiquing all the contradictions and non-sequiturs and, I feel, the way he/they, (did he really write all this stuff or did he and a bunch of his henchmen sit around making all this stuff up?) drop in occasional sentences to 'appease' anyone reading who might be getting suspicious as they read.

There are some great lines in it for a comedian. My favorite is: 'The purpose of life is really no big deal'. page xiv
Then of course the rest of the book leads up to that Lee has the answer to the meaning of life, which is to keep on searching for the meaning of life, and on and on , by following him.
We all know that the only right answer to the question is to become Lee's slave.

By Smile on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 06:42 am:

After just 4 weeks of Dahn membership and almost $1400 lighter I am reeling with my feelings of distrust and disappointment. I was so sure they were the answer to my health concerns and I even went so far as to stop taking my prescription medication to stop the recurrance of cancer. To be honest they did not discuss this aspect in words and I must take full responsibility for my interpretation and expectations. Enlightened, you bet! Sad, yes! Sad because there are so many lost, hurting, financially compromised people believing that these businesses will enrich their lives. From that initial 2 hours spent in the little room on the mat and in spite of my misgivings, I believe that I was hooked. Is this a powerful program? No doubt, because I'm day 3 of not going to class and something in my mind keeps saying, yah but! I liked the energy of the classes, the people and I crave for more, despite being informed of their cult-like operations. Doubly troubling a friend is oblivious and very involved at a teaching level. I spoke the words of warning and must now let go. As for me, its a new day and for the second time this week I will practice the exercises that I remember from class and look for a "normal" Yoga group or physical activity to engage in. I have learned a valuable lesson from this, trust my instincts. I have, my, answers for living and I alone am responsible for the choices. I choose to forgive the unfortunates who are still asleep, and I will continue to search for ways to awaken with love and peace. The good thing about all this, I have learned how to warm up my hands and teach this to my grands. Simple, free, healing, energy, just clap or rub your hands together, smile and pass it on! How wonderful that the universe has provided a site such as this to share our experience, strength and hope with others. Peace be with you.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 08:24 am:

I have been a member of Dahn Yoga for over 2 years. It is only one part of my spiritual path. I love the exercises and meditation and have learned that if you say NO to them, (and keep saying NO) they will hear you - For me, going to class every day and skipping the rest of the programs, trainings and healing sessions, has been exactly what I need to help me grow spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 02:27 pm:

I have been a member since November 2004 and too love the classes. I signed for a one-year membership and the Initial Awakening which I did in December- total cost $1300. I have not done anything else as far as seminars or healing sessions. There are reinforcements for the IA that I have been encouraged to attend, but I have have never done so.
I had that same nagging feeling about being a "wallet" for them and joked with my boyfriend that I always leave my purse in the car. I agree with the poster that said - the dark room, relaxing environment is quite the set up to be taken advantage of. I was amazed at how easily I gave my credit card and felt no buyers remorse. Very unusual for me.
One afternoon after class, the master asked me if I had time for a check up - so into the room on the mat we go. Afterwards he suggested healing sessions to speed up the process of my spiritual awakening. He mentioned they had 10 session on sale for $1500 and asked if this sounded good to me. I said casually - yeah that's okay. But, leaving I knew I wouldn't do it and felt great that I had not paid for anything.
Hey surprise - I'm checking my credit card online a week later and there is a charge from Dahn Yoga for $1500. I immediately called the center and spoke with the master. He said he thought I had given him verbal approval and would reverse the charge right away. I questioned him about how he had my number and how he was able to charge without a signature. Well, we had it in your file he said. Boy, that was not cool!
I kept checking and a few days later the credit did pop up just like he said. He also sent me an email (I had never received one before) apologizing for the miscommunication.
I have never received any phone calls or any more pressure to spend any money. I think they have labeled me as "wallet closed." Which is just fine. I like the classes and in November will just move on and as always take these experience with me. What I love is the exercise and the meditation all together. Yoga is about preparing the body for meditation and Dahn has that part right.

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 07:12 pm:

To anonymous, June 1, 7:57 am. Wow, that's scary that they charged your credit card without your consent. It's also outrageous and illegal. You know he was bullshitting about the 'miscommunication' too don't you? He knew exactly what he was doing: If you complained, he would pretend miscommunication, and email you to say sorry, and hope you'd believe him and not make waves; But there was the other possiblity he was betting on; that you'd be too nice to say anything and let the charge stand. This is all calculated. I know that I felt that way when they got me to sign a contract for 10 healing sessions while 'under the influence'. I had meant three more, even though I didn't really want those either. I had even left my purse at home on purpose, but that didn't stop a contract magically appearing under my nose.They even lost the contract, so they said, so when I asked for it at the following class, they had to make another one. I was too 'nice' to say anything about not really intending to sign for more sessions. I'm still trying to analyze what was going on in my head that whole time.
I have left Dahn and not even taken the sessions. $2,000!

You really should report that incident to the Consumer Fraud Office or Better Business Bureau, even though you got your money back. They shouldn't get away with that.

The whole Dahn enterprise is premised on members being suckers. Too nice to say anything contradictory. We all are, let's admit it. I mean it in a nice way. We are all socialized to be polite, respectful, and open to others' beliefs. People who are looking for Yoga centers are peaceful, kind and trusting types. Dahn is calculated to exploit us. They have it all figured out.

Of course the exercises and the classes and the atmosphere, and the smiling and the hugging are wonderful, at first, but that's a trick. Dahn has it down to a fine art :'Yoga is about preparing the body for meditation and Dahn has that part right.' Of course it does. That's the point. And, it's NOT yoga. That's a name only, which was a trick to get you in the door in the first place. We all keep making the mistake of getting stuck at the 'love the exercise' part; and accepting the term 'yoga'.

Walk away and join another class. Their exercises aren't that good really; Or exercise at home: Smile, 12:12 am has that right. I'm forfieting a huge amount of money. I simply can't go back. I'd have to keep quiet and not warn other members. Did you read in the contract that your membership would be voided if you 'interfered with the business of the center?'

I'm chalking it all up to experience. But I can't close my mind off and do nothing. Dahn is a menace to society. It behoves us all to take some action. Write letters, or articles, or whatever will make even the tiniest dent in their armor. Posting on this board of course, is a huge help. I have gotten so much sustainance from reading the posts. I feel a bond with everyone here.

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 07:39 pm:

This is a wonderful healing site. It reminds me over and over why I left after having so much of myself invested in the system. The kicker seems to be the wonderful, caring honest people these people attract.
I would still like to know where the center is located that has split away and if anyone would be willing to list the owners contact information. It would be a real service to those of us who may want to follow in their footsteps.

By HealerNoMore on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 11:36 pm:

Regarding the ten sessions for $1500; the masters charge what they think they can get from the members. It comes down to how confident they are in selling their healing abilities. When I started I was charged $35 for a healing session and within 3 years they were charging members $500.00 per hour for a healing session. I heard of one master on the west coast who charged $1000.00 per healing session and these sessions had to be purchased as a block of ten. I can't imagine paying $10,000 for healing sessions. If a master has a title of headmaster or regional director it implies their energy is more powerful, when in fact it only means they are brainwashed even deeper than regular masters because they work harder. I will admit that my healing sessions made me feel great, my wallet on the other hand still doesn't understand.

The risk involved with healing sessions is the masters will be able to control and manipulate you even easier as you will trust them 100%. You will never realize it is happening and you will never see it coming.

One more thing, the next time you are about to get a healing ask them where they received their license to do massage. Is it a state license or just national certification? A state license carries more weight. In fact ask them what gives them authority to diagnose your condition. Remember a medical doctor must go to medical school and dahn healer school is not an authorized medical school.

By HealerNoMore on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 11:44 pm:

The center that broke away is not allowed to teach dahn. If you want to teach "dahn" just change the postures and the order of exercises and the terminology. Teach traditional Tai Chi. You can look up names on a database if you incorporate your chosen name and see if it was used before. They don't have a monopoly on exercise, just the "dahn" name. I have read that traditional yoga, whatever that is, includes over 5000 positions. Just use your imagination, as stated on this board, it feels like dahn pulls things from other systems. They do. We are Dahn. You will be assimilated. (from the Borg-Star Trek)

By Petrice on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 11:56 pm:

Dear Susiecue,
Thank you for your reply on 5/31. I totally agree with you that the need to vent and share our stories with someone is a very important part of the healing process. I think this website is an ideal place for that. I also will admit I thought about that too when I wrote the words "bitch session" You read me right when you pointed out that staying stuck in that place can be equally damaging to our psyche. But I also recognize the need to vent, as I have done a lot of that myself. It's a natural response to the stifling that happens at the center. I love that someone posted the lyrics to I can see clearly now the rain is gone. It describes how I've been feeling recently. Anyway, I have been spending a lot of time today processing all of this over the past week. I had a great session with my therapist who helped me to see where the root of my reactions are coming from as well as where my hook was. I already knew it on a cognitive level but it was good to really drop into my body and really feel that pain. I did a lot of crying but feel cleansed. Then today I got a chance to discuss my feelings with a few other people including the 2 who broke off from Dahn and someone who is on the fence.

I am in Colorado. The center that broke away is the Cherry Creek center in Denver. They are actually still listed on the website so you can call them and talk to them. I won't say anymore about that just because I want to respect their situation and not knowing what Dahn is capable of, I am afraid to say more. I've heard some scary things that have me questioning how much I really want to say or do in terms of exposure. That is one of the reasons why I think that if I am to take action beyond sharing my story here, I will do something like a support group that offers a place to talk and share and heal and continue to practice an exercise that is so powerful. However, even if I do soemthing like that, it won't be for a long time. I have so much to do to just get myself out of the hole Dahn got me into.

Much love to all of you and thanks again for all your words, stories, song lyrics, websites, and just your authentic TRUE courageous selves that have taken that scary step toward breaking away.

I would also like to add that it is my belief that, despite the corrupt, criminal, unethical practices of the Dahn organization, the practice itself is as pure as gold. They have taken exercises and theories from numerous discplines and put them together to create something truly amazing. There is actually a sound reason for all the funny and sometimes strange and unusual things they had us do. And they work which is why it is so powerful. It's what they did to us when they got us to that receptive, open, beautifully vulnerable place that is so wrong. Without all the brainwashing, manipulation and mind control, the practice is sound and pure. I urge you all to not throw the baby out with the bath water and at least take with you the awesome stuff we learned from all this.

Anyway, I wish you all peace and happiness on your healing journey. I will gladly share my story with all of you when I have more time. Thanks for your response to my question.

Blessings and Love....

By caleba76 on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 07:16 am:

Wow, What great postings from everyone. I have been with the dahn centers for about 18 months. Yeha, healer school and all of the special programs you could name. I even work full time for my center in preparation for sabunim training.

The only problem for me is the more I see about how the business is run the more I am not sure I like what I am seeing.

I haven't been to work in two days. It has taken me almost that long to read all of the posts here as well as other sites. I am still not sure what I am going to do but I have been given a lot of great food for thought.

Thanks so much for everyone's wonderful stories I will try and post more on mine later.

P.S. Hopeful if you are who I think you are give me a call. Dawn HN, Pamela MSN, and others at the center have my number if you don't.

By clockwork on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 07:48 am:

Where is Hopeful, I hope he is not in Sedona, I hope he is okay

By Sunshine on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 09:21 am:

I just have to say, that I read this everyday, and I am so glad that we all have this place to come to.... I have been tossing all this around for the past few weeks, and I sincerely hope that through our postings that we can make a difference. I agree we should not throw the baby out with the bathwater- I learned a lot of beneficial exercises /meditations from the system, but I agree the underlying motive is very nefarious! I have moved far away from any Dahn centers (geographically and emotionally much better), but I stay in touch with stillahealer all the time - we have our own support group. To Hopeful, I was in your position a year ago - family the whole 9 yards, believe me FOR ME, I made my choice to leave Dahn. I believe that I have healed my family FAR MORE since I left Dahn... It was MY choice to get married, it was MY choice to have a child and in retrospect they were manipulating me to go against those choices that I dearly loved - they would have me believe they were "attachments", but I have noticed that my greatest growth has been in "BEING" with my family as those relationships are often the strongest mirrors for ourselves to see ourselves and most often the most challenging - but if we use these opportunities to grow - wow! growth comes quickly!. I used to have username as stillahealer's starbuck ... I have chosen SUNSHINE now to use here forward as it is easier...

By fresh-ex on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 09:54 am:

Wow, this board really blows my mind. i am so thankful to see more and more people joining. i am going on-line at home this week so i can be more active here. it really helps.
my experience with leaving dahn has become an exercise in ethics. there are many people at my old center who have known the truth about this organization for over a year, but they just "stay for the exercise". they called me "friend" and watched me get drawn in, start volunteering everyday, go to workshops that kept me so poor i wasn't eating.they never said a word. now, they say that it is ultimately a choice that everybody makes, and that i shouldn't get attached to things. i think its obvious that people are being manipulated and taken advantage of and yes, brainwashed. and i also believe there is a difference between attachment and committment. of course i will get over this, but i was committed to an idea, a job and a community that i thought reciprocated that committment. and i find that people who stand by and watch people get used and abused are just as responsible as the organization running the show. there is pause for reflection here- about accountability for our actions, or lack there of.i feel very strongly about this, at the risk of looking judgemental. i could not spend 10 SECONDS in that center without telling people what i know. and i will remain active. i live in canada, and have no intention of changing my number and disappearing, or doing nothing.
so its great to be able to share this with all of you because there is very few open ears in my neighborhood.
i hope that Hopeful is still reading, and says something soon, to let us know he is ok.
caleba76- Welcome! thats how i finally snapped out of it, by reading for a whole weekend. i was volunteering everyday, and was ALWAYS there. there was always some reason, some meeting. i was drifting very quickly away from my friends and family, even other dahn members. cold turkey is the best way to leave. thanks for listening, to everyone that responded directly to my comments, it feels like contact. i can't thank you enough.

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 10:23 am:

Petrice, I look forward, as I'm sure others do too, to hearing more about how a Dahn center broke away from Dahn. I can't envision how that is done. Did Dahn (Bell Rock Development Corp. or Mago Earth,Inc. or whoever officially owned the business) sell or legally turn over the business to someone? I find that hard to imagine. If so, who financed the sale? The masters don't make enough to buy doodleysquat.

And I question the awe and mystique that some people impart to Dahn programs. Part of the healing from Dahn wounds is to see these programs for what they are, and for what they are not.

I do see your point, that people can still use and appreciate the actual exercises and methodology, and certainly they can realize the power of loving attention and affection, but what is original in Dahn programs? Maybe I just can't stand calling anything they do "pure." For one thing, they are accused of stealing Alison Bourne's Colour Therapy program for their own Healing Chakra program. So I wouldn't call Dahn's program powerful in that case; I'd call Alison Bourne's program powerful.
Suziecue

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 11:05 am:

Yeh, Petrice. I'd be interested to know how that's done. I would love to form a support group, locally, but how do you reach people? My problem is I was only a member for a short time, and so didn't have time to get far with friendships, like sharing phone numbers,even though I talked to lots of people at the center. I didn't realize until it happened, that I was going to leave.

I've tried slinking around the parking lot a few times, before and after regular class times, hoping to spot a couple of people I got on particulary well with and go:'psst! psst!!!?? Crazy eh? But no luck. I gave up on that one.

Internet discussion boards like this are useful, because people are out looking for info: already know the truth really. But the people in your centers either have'nt woken up yet, or have left never to be seen again, unless you knew them before, or bump into them at the store. Who knows! We might be talking to someone here from our own center, but don't know it.

How do we meet in person?

It's also relatively safe here, anonymous. Or so we think! I'm sure they are constantly prowling the web reading this all, figuring out who we all are somehow. How technologically savvy are Lee's henchmen? Is he too cheap to hire really highly qualified techies? I hope so.

Also, me too, Hopeful. where are you?

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 11:55 am:

Petrice said: "I've heard some scary things that have me questioning how much I really want to say or do in terms of exposure."

Like what? Please share.

By clockwork on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 12:13 pm:

Fresh Ex and Dahntbefoolednomore, you guys are so inspriational, I love what I am hearing from you. You want to take action and that is what I want as well. I quit Dahn cold turkey in Oct 2004 and I still am on a mission to let the world know about Dahn every chance I get, weather I have to be sneaky or obnoxious I will do what I can to expose them for what they are. I am going to call my local newspaper and write or call in a letter to the editor, I will do it every week until it is published that is one way to get it in print on a newspaper. I loved the other people I met in Dahn, not the masters but students, they were such a lovely type of people, I don't want anymore of them hurt. Hurt Lonely people go to Dahn for a reason they certainly will not be scammed if I can help it. Also SuzieCue I agree, I can't use the word "pure" when describing Dahn, it gives me chills. Lets really all work together, call DA's attorney general's. file complaints, talk to police, talk to local newspapers, tear up flyers and send them back to the nearest Dahn center..... any otehr ideas I would love to know. Thanks to all of you on this board I have gotton ideas on how to fight back! Lets continue to share, vent, and support each other. I thank you all for your stories and support it is wonderful to have you all. I have been writing on this site for eight months and it is growing quickly now, I am so happy. You all sound like wonderful people.
peace to all of you

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 12:25 pm:

Caleba76,

Are they paying you while you work at the center in preparation for becoming a master? Remember to ask them when you will receive medical benefits or overtime pay. Hey, even a 401k would be nice. I think lee is the only one who has any security in the organization. Keep posting your experiences and keep watching.

Does anyone remember the big donation dahn received in the Washington, DC area for 1 million dollars? How about the two members who donated close to $100,000 the pacific northwest (washington/oregon)? Is this the money that was used to buy lee's Hummer? How about Mago Castle? This was the 8000 sq ft castle on Camelback Mountain. The description I received was accurate, I wonder if the sale was completed.

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 12:34 pm:

One way to cause them grief is to call the local BBB and file complaints. This will stay on file for three years. Another way is to call the city you are located in and ask about business permits. Does dahn have licenses to do massage? How about healing sessions? What type of medical expertise or degrees do the masters have in giving you a diagnosis? Have they ever told you to stop taking medication? If you can stop them from doing healings for $500 per hour you will put a nice dent in their operations. It is a cash business, do they cheat on their taxes? I have to stop or I could go on for a long time.

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 12:45 pm:

The donors I remember were those who contributed the cost of opening centers. There was a lady in Sedona; think her name was Bea; she had the belief that her friend would be cured from cancer as a result of her donation. I seem to recall photos of others in Washington State, and New Mexico with donations in the $60K range. Seemed like retired people and promised cures.

Was the person in the D.C. area an anonimous donor? If so it was probably smoke n mirrors to pressure others to give more.
Just my humble opinion.

By caleba76 on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 12:51 pm:

HealerNoMore,
Yes I have been getting paid for working at the center. About $1400 per month. Not alot to live on I know. No medical benifits but I did receive about 10 hours overtime a week. Of course I didn't get paid for the first three months I worked there.

There was talk about getting medical insurance but I'm not holding my breath. I have been very questioning lately and not sure about what I want to do.

I have to say though that I think the exercises are extremely beneficial and will continue doing a lot of them on my own. It is more the ethics of the company that I am having a problem with. ie high pressure sales tactics, not paying employees, or not paying enough to live on while Dr. Lee has four houses to choose from.

Once again thanks to everyone for posting I will try and keep you up to date on how I am progressing.

Caleb

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 01:04 pm:

Clockwork, great protective energy there. Just be careful not to get yourself into a legal problem. I'm not a lawyer, but I wouldn't tear up their brochures, or approach their customers going in or out.

But I think we can legally suggest to places that carry Dahn brochures to do some research.

Here's an idea: Type up a brief message, which friends can help distribute, that says something like: "Please consider not distributing Dahn brochures. Many people have reported that they are the gateway to a damaging cult. Do a Google search on the words "Dahnhak" and "cult," and decide for yourself."

HealerNoMore, do you know for a fact that they tell people to stop taking their medication, I mean serious medication?! That is very risky for them to do that, if so.

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 02:07 pm:

I called the police about the claims on the Dahn brochures, like evaluating internal organ health and digestive problems and shoulder pain, and they said talk to the Health Dept, who said they have no juridiction, so I called the Attorney General's consumer protection number and she said that if it sounds Eastern or alternative in the brochure, then they can say whatever they want about diagnosing and treating medical conditions -- a buyer beware situation.

We started talking about all the other things people are experiencing with Dahn, and she said it sounded familiar. She looked up Dahn and saw that someone in the state had complained recently. She welcomed more information. I'll be sending them information a.s.a.p.

It looks like complaints to the Attorney Generals offices are the way to go.

Great group, here. Thank you to all.

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 03:49 pm:

Anon 1 million dollar D.C. area = MSN @Georgetown

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 03:59 pm:

Thanks; Got it.

Were they on crack?

By hopeful on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 06:11 pm:

Thank you all for wondering and being concerned of my whereabouts.I cant believe this but, I am not going tomorrow morning to my advanced healer school. I have been looking forward to this for so many months and as you all know I love this practice, but the organization itself is causing me serious trepidation. Caleb posting here today blew me away because I worked very closely with him at our center and we share a lot in common, he has worked at the center longer than I, so to see him coming to this board and posting was not only a shock to me but a huge relief in a way because now all this deception seems more real to me. With evverything that is going on in my personal life and my relationship with my wife I just cannot afford emotionally and financially the ramifications of going right now. I could go just for basic grad and leave before advanced starts but i jsut know that either I will convince myself to stay or one of the many people I know will convince me. There are a number of people from my center who will be there. It kills me that two close friends from the center called to say they were so happy for me to be going and that it is just what I need right now what with the problems I am having at home and everything. It really bothered me that I didnt tell them the truth that I really wasnt going, I just couldnt get into it with them because they are so deep involved also and at this point I dont think it is right to nail them with all my feelings. My wholw world is turned upside down, I am not even sure if my wife wants to remain with me. We are going to therapy but she is not giving me even a shed of hope that she even wants continue our marriage. You must know though that our problem doesnt stem directly from dahn even though to you all it probably looks that way. We or she just have changed so much and she thinks she is in love with this other guy. I think she is just in love with the "newness" and excitement of romance, well whatever, I cant get into all that here all I know is my GUT instinct is telling me stay home, it is most important. My love for my wife and my love for dahn has all turned upside down and I am going though sooooomuch right now. Thank you all.

By openminded & confused on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 07:23 pm:

I am hooked on this site. Maybe I just have an addictive personality and that is why I almost fell into Dahn so easily.
I am so thankful to all of the people posting on this site. I read the posts here almost every day and I am convinced something major is going to happen to the New Dahn followers... the puns are endless...

The Dahn Hacks are using some serious mind control tactics. This is dangerous. I am wondering if anyone knows that they use the brain wave generators in the centers to reduce people's resistance to the sales pitch? I went into a center for an energy check up after YEHA. What they didn't know is that I had already researched their organization on the internet, found this site, and had major reservations about what was going to happen.

I went to the center with my girlfriend. Both of us are starving artist types (my mother paid up front for the healing check up), but she was going to wait in the lobby for me and check out some literature while I was in the back room. My check up felt like a total scam, in fact, after I got home I felt serious pain in my abdomen where the "healer" had pressed her fingers. I had every intention to ask serious questions before I went in, but I found that my thoughts were all muddled once I got in the room. Normally I am the type of person that is not intimidated by high pressure salesmanship, and I don't mind turning the tables on someone who is selling me snakeoil; however, whenever I tried to "flip the script" on the "master" I found that I could not form any pointed questions, like my brain was half asleep. Later I realized that I didn't get any of the information I wanted, and was not even able to directly decline a membership, I could only say "maybe later, it sounds good, let me ask my mom if she will pay for me." I could not say NO!!! This is not my normal personality. That is what makes me wonder if they switch on the brain wave generators.

After the session, I found that they did not even offer my girlfriend a seat in the lobby while she waited. When they learned that she didn't have the money for a session, they asked her to leave!! She was asked to wait outside in the hot Texas sun for 30 minutes, and not even offered a cup of tea. They did everything wrong in my opinion. It really left a bad taste in my mouth and she, of course, had a lot to say about their decorum when I came out.

This song was on TV while I was writing, I thought the irony was appropriate:

"Breakaway"
Kelly Clarkson

Grew up in a small town
And when the rain would fall down
I'd just stare out my window
Dreaming of what could be
And if I'd end up happy
I would pray (I would pray)

Trying hard to reach out
But when I tried to speak out
Felt like no one could hear me
Wanted to belong here
But something felt so wrong here
So I pray (I would pray)
I could breakaway

[Chorus:]
I'll spread my wings and I'll learn how to fly
I'll do what it takes til' I touch the sky
I'll make a wish
Take a chance
Make a change
And breakaway
Out of the darkness and into the sun
But I won't forget all the ones that I love
I'll take a risk
Take a chance
Make a change
And breakaway

Wanna feel the warm breeze
Sleep under a palm tree
Feel the rush of the ocean
Get onboard a fast train
Travel on a jet plane, far away (I will)
And breakaway

[Chorus]

Buildings with a hundred floors
Swinging around revolving doors
Maybe I don't know where they'll take me but
Gotta keep moving on, moving on
Fly away, breakaway

I'll spread my wings
And I'll learn how to fly
Though it's not easy to tell you goodbye
I gotta take a risk
Take a chance
Make a change
And breakaway
Out of the darkness and into the sun
But I won't forget the place I come from
I gotta take a risk
Take a chance
Make a change
And breakaway, breakaway, breakaway

By blind no more on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 07:28 pm:

Hello dear hopeful
I think we have met each other may be in sedona ,because I was due to go for my advance tomorrow. But I am not going ,I even had my fair ticket. You know what, for the first time, I am listening to my true self. I could feel there was something wrong in Sedona in the basic admission but I could not share it with anyone there as most of them were high and brain washed. I was so lucky to come across this site. I had a chance to talk to some of former healers in my center and they opened my eyes. I hope you know that how strong you are for doing this and I am prety sure you will overcome all your personal problems.

Love

By Stillehealer on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 08:03 pm:

Openminded and Confused;

You know you are in a vulnerable position while laying on the floor. No power at all; which is why you are unable to express yourself. I get so irritated with my dentist who wants to have a conversation while I am on my back and he is standing over me.
How is your mom?
I know about the hot Texas Sun.
I feel addicted to this site as well; we all need it to keep our sanity and to validate our experience.

Hopeful; I know the pain of loss; the pain I felt when my husband told me he did not love me felt just like the pain I felt when I had to leave Dahn.

By Reciprocity on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 08:49 pm:

There is a chance that former members could file a class action suit to recoup money and damages. It sounds as if you may have enough testimony to establish a pattern of intent to defraud. A class action lawyer could tell you for sure.

By hopeful on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 08:55 pm:

I just came back from my local 7-11 to buy some milk, and on my way in I saw a lady who was leaving with a brochure from the rack I put in there, and it made me sick feeling. I wanted to stop her and tell her to throw it out and to saave her time $$ and energy from calling it up and possibly getting into it.
Also, I thought my wife would be happy to find out I wasnt leaving in the morning for healer school but she seeems disappointed, I guess i spoiled her plans for whatever she had planned while I was gone. I feel like I have lost everything.

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 09:24 pm:

THE COCHRAN FIRM

CIVIL CASES

(1.888.526.2472)
Offices in 12 States

By Andrew Nevis on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 10:05 pm:

Hopeful, you haven't lost everything. You have people here for you. We'll try to help you through what you're experiencing right now. Do not give up!
You are stronger than you know.

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 10:58 pm:

Hopeful, count me in as a supporter. With all that I know about Dahn, some things that haven't even come out yet here, I am confident that you can count yourself as one of the lucky ones for beginning to see through the manipulation, even if you are hurting.

I hope your wife meets you halfway to save the family. If not, a good counselor can help ease the transition to separate lives. You can learn a lot about yourself by examining what happened with Dahn and in your marriage and end up wiser and happier in your choices. Anyway, my heart goes out to you. And, I admire you for your strength.
Suziecue

By Petrice on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 12:54 am:

I am so impressed with all of your courage. i also wish I had more time to devote to reading every word or all your comments and take the time it deserves to respond to your questions. it's after 1 am and I have to work in the morning but I wanted to respond. I want to also admit to you that I am still a little scared to say too much becuase i don't know what kind of risks I'm taking. It would be pretty easy to figure out who i am at this point if they really wanted to and I heard from a reliable source that in Korea, it was not unusual for trouble makers to get paid a "visit" and get roughed up. That hasn't happened in the US as far as we know, but it still scares me. Plus I don't want to get the center that broke away in trouble by saying too much. They will talk to you if you call tho. It is under Yoga Tai Chi in the directory and they are at 201 University in Denver CO. I do know that they were unusual in that they owned the center, that they bought it up front. so that business piece was not an issue. It seems to have been a fairly peaceful transaction as well.

As for the support group plan, your guess is as good as mine. I haven't started that yet and not sure if I will anytime soon but have had some ideas like putting flyers all over the place with wording such as 'Have you or a loved one been hurt by the wrongdoings of cults such as DAHNHAK, Dianetics, etc..." But then thought I have to be careful not to get sued for slander or something like that. So then I would have to be careful not to use names or have a lawyer check it out. I don't know.

It's all so overwhelming to be honest. This has been so very hard. My ideas have been mostly a part of my processing all of this. I want to bring something good to all this but I also don't want to lose my home and tap my entire savings in teh process.

I think it was Susiecue who pointed out that none of the Dahn practice is pure. I hear what you are saying. Nothing that Ilchi created was his own, it was all taken from other disciplines and he never gave credit where credit was due such as to bioenergetics, gestalt therapy, and the martial arts, and on and on and on. Just like the Chakra book he plaguerized. You are absolutely right. AND! I also think that by bringing all of those together, it created something very powerful. I do not give Ilchi any kudos for that. I am with you, I can't stand the idea of crediting him with anything positive. Altho I do believe that at some point in his life, he did have pure intentions. I am highly doubtful that someone as evolved as David Hawkins would have endorsed him had he not been. It is very common for enlightened spiritual teachers to "fall" from all the power, adulation, workship, etc. It takes a truly evolved being to hold their place on the evolutionary scale with all of the ego stroking. Jesus, Buddha and Krishna are 3 that come to mind. Touch acts to follow. Shit, even Hitler wasn't a bad guy in the beginning. Anyway...

Again, I want to thank you all for your time and energy put forth here. I am still too scared to tell my whole story becuase it will give me away in a second. I have been reading all about cult psychology and realize that this is one of the stages in the process where one fears retaliation. I hope it passes and I am able to share all. In the meantime I will keep working on it and keep reading your stories.
This website is off rickross and was helpful to me on many levels. Just wanted to share. http://www.rickross.com/reference/recovery/recovery4.html

I gotta hit the sack. Much love to you all!

By Petrice on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 12:57 am:

Just to clarify, my reference to Jesus, Buddha and Krishna are examples of those who did not fall, but maintained their integrity until the moment of their death which is why they didn't have to come back. That's one theory anyway, and I buy it. Ok, NOW I'm going to sleep!
Sweet Dreams all...

By clockwork on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 04:08 am:

Hopeful,
I am so happy for you. I think that you are a strong person, you listened to your instincts, they are always right. I think things may appear bad right now with your wife, but perhaps everything will fall into place now that you have regained control over YOUR life! You should give yourself a lot of credit for that. I wish you the best of luck and consider me a supporter as well. Peace and love.
Blind No More, I wish you the best of luck and strength as well, just think you have regained control over your own life and your own choices, CONGRATULATIONS!
Suzie Cue you are right about lawsuits, I must keep that in mind, thank you for your sound advice.

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 06:52 am:

This is the reason some people are afraid. Below are excerpts from New Human Leader Training p 6 7 8

Se-Seung-Nim asks the following question of all Masters:
"Sam-bo (Lee) is the ceter of our vision. If there is someone who harms Sam-bo someone who harms our organization, what would you do?

1. Would you do nothing but just silently watch and pray?
2. Would you just claim in words that you protect Sam-bo but take no action?
3. Woud you get angry and take action?
I want each of you to consider which choice you would make. What would you choose"
Your response needs to be a bodily reaction, not from your thoughts. With thought, one cannot realistically say that that person has changed. For example, just because one knows all the rules for playing table tennis doesnt mean thy can play well. It needs to be mastered through the body. Only trained enlightenment, trained mentality can be owned by that person. Someone who has a soul is someone who has faith. That faith is something that one creates and chooses, it is not something that one is born with.
I want to ask all of you, do you have passion for Sambo?"

He goes on to tell about Sah-Myung Dae (a Buddhist priest)who burned down the house of the person who killed his son. Sah-Myung Dae prepared the people of Korea to defend themselves from Japan. He also told the story about Kim Ku a nobelman who killed Japanese officers. He had the strength to kill Japanese officers by bashing his own head against theirs.
According to Lee "This occurs only when one has a big vision."

"If there is someone who tries to harm Sam-bo (Lee) will you do nothing but pray?
Only when you have the standard of Sah-Myung Dae can you become a true Power Brain.
For that you need to train your mind to a point where you are ready to take your own life.
I wish for all of you to always recite the Power Brain Prayer.
And move and act as a vision brain.

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 07:06 am:

Should have closed " on 12.22 above And move and act as a vision brain".

By Iloveit on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 07:08 am:

I would hate to see the Dahn Yoga Centers closed down. I have been going for 2 years and although I know they rip people off, I have not found another Yoga/Meditation class that works as well for me. I don't know the answer - I do try to tell new members not to get talked into anything and give them warnings about their tactics. I wish there was some way to get them to change. But, I do know that they have helped many people, especially the ones who have learned how to say NO!

By clockwork on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 08:07 am:

That is a contradictory statement, "I would hate to see Dahn Yoga centers closed down. Although I know they rip people off. I have not found another yoga/meditation class that works as well for me, they have helped many people, especially the ones who have learned to say NO!" I don't understand how you can praise a place that is supposed to teach peace and meditation but at the same time rips people off, you are fully aware of this and don't mind, what kind of peaceful meditation are they teaching. It is a Fraud!

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 08:08 am:

Iloveit, as I sit here with adrenalin making me shake after reading Anonymous 12:36 above, then I read your message, you make me want to scream. This isn't about you! This is a frightening situation growing all around us.

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 08:25 am:

Reciprocity, you took the words out of my mouth. I was going to pose the question about class action lawsuits May be a way to go. I'll check that out, anonymous 2:54pm

Hopeful: hang in there and don't weaken. It will be OK in the end. It feels like Hell now, but keep reading and posting. We'll try to support you through this. You have made the right decision leaving Dahn. Staying would make your situation even worse in the end. You know that even though you felt great when you were there, it is really an escape from reality. And people in your very position are the ones they exist to exploit.

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 08:57 am:

Iloveit is a plant. Must be. Follows a pattern. I haven't got time to look back at all the posts here and on other sites, but I'm positive that this is one of those. They all sound the same.

Anonymous 12:36. Now I know that my initial fear and paranoia were justified!
I really felt that strongly the first month or so. I was imagining all kinds of things.I was afraid to post on these boards then too.
Also, anxiety. Huge waves of it coming over me every time I thought about my experience; which was every few minutes! I couldn't sleep. I kept doing the exercises at home, because I didn't want to lose the benefit I had been feeling. I managed not to cry, but one time I just broke down, looking at myself in the mirror.
This whole time, I felt I was at fault. Trying to explain to my husband that they had some kind of hold over me at the healing sessions, on the mat on the floor; that they had 'hypnotized' me, sort of --all sounded feeble and weak, like excuses.
Then reading Rick Ross and then this board helped me gradually regain strength and confidence. Dahn is wrong, not me. I was vulnerable and they saw it and had gone straight for my jugular!

They are nothing but frauds and they need to be exposed. I'm not afraid of them now.

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 09:21 am:

Anon June 3 12:22, thank you very much for posting that material. If this is something that trainees are given to read, I just don't understand why there aren't more people challenging Lee. Is this something that is read at only the highest brainwashed levels? Is it top secret material? Hopeful, did you get this material when you were in training? HealerNoMore, did you?

David Hawkins's endorsement of Ilchi Lee doesn't mean that Lee must have been pure at one point, it means that David Hawkins erred in endorsing Ilchi Lee.

The url for this board and the New Human Leader trainee material should be sent to David Hawkins. Let him begin to undo the damage he did by endorsing Ilchi Lee in the first place -- and to Neale Donald Walsch who more than endorses Ilchi Lee, and to Maurice Strong (UN) and Hanne Strong (Manitou Foundation), and Seymore Topping, and whoever named Lee one of the top 50 pre-eminent spiritual leaders of the world (who did that? Beliefnet? The UN?), etc.

Let them come here to this forum and explain to us all how they can keep endorsing Lee after reading all this.

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 09:39 am:

Only Myungsa which is "lay masters a/ka/ New Human Leaders and Masters get this.
One is usually very far gone before it is introductd.

By fresh-ex on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 09:53 am:

Hopeful: a good friend of mine called when i was having a meltdown last monday (about Dahn and parallels), and she said everybody gets their chain rattled gently- forcefully is with a moving vehicle bearing down on you or something. things weren't feeling "gentle" to me at the time!! she said, look at it this way: you are being gently steered in the right direction, to see your true path. its like someone grabbing your elbow and saying look darling, its over there.. it is a profound shift that will deepen your understanding of yourself, your values, beyond anything you ever imagined
i felt terrible hearing about whats happening in your marriage. imagine if you HAD gone to sedona.
there is such strength in us, and you are walking talking example of that. just read back two weeks. wow. stay on the board,ok?
i do my exercises at home, and was pretty blue yesterday. i did the whole routine, including meditation to radioheads kid A. it was awesome! such irony! good pace for the workout, i recommend it! then i started a painting- thinking more and more about accountability. it is a monk. inside of him are three boys- all potential suicide bombers. there are people (soldiers, us?) watching in the background. is the monk praying? thinking? will we do nothing? i found alot of writing yesterday from over the years. its always about the earth, nature, social/political commentary. what can we do to help? thats how i got drawn into dahn. my concerns for the earth and the human race are genuine, like all of us. they played me.
painting and staying in contact with all of you is what is keeping me going, for real!!!!!

By Iloveit on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 11:07 am:

Dahntbefoolednomore, I am not a plant - Someone said "Don't throw out the baby with the bath water". That is how I feel. I believe that there is perfection in the imperfection. We have all been drawn to Dahn and some of us have had to learn some hard lessons. As I said before, I will do my best to let people know about the benefits and the hazards involved in joining.

By Reciprocity on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 11:58 am:

But there are better teachers and entire schools out there. Why would anyone want to be dependant on a group that they know doesn't have their physical, mental or spiritual interests at heart?

It is very simple, if Dahnhak does evil things, then they have chosen evil. They take a lot of money for exercises they don't really understand themselves and, according to the info above, they brainwash then incite their cultists to violence against apostates.

To paraphrase a saying from real Buddhism, their world is on fire, so it is best for you to get out before it burns down around them, taking you with it!

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 12:03 pm:

It's the myth of scarcity that you and others are falling for. No one is throwing out a baby. The baby is just an exercise and meditation program. You just have to look harder to see that you can find valuable and life-enhancing exercises and meditation elsewhere.

There is just no reason to lend support to a destructive organization like Dahn. You are paying money that allows a cult to continue operating. Where is the perfection in that decision?

By Stillahealer on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 01:16 pm:

Good news/bad news Fresh Out.
You are obviously very sensitive and can easily relax under certain conditions. I on the other hand have a difficult time letting go.
Good news You relax easily;
Bad News/ They can get to you.

By Stillahealer on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 03:15 pm:

The above message was for Dahnthefoolnomore

By HealerNoMore on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 05:12 pm:

I read that excerpt from the NHL training guide and looked up one I have in my possession. Lee talks in circles and he really gets the message in that he is the supreme commander of any enlightenment movement. I would post everything here but it is too much to type and I don't own a scanner.

Here are some excerpts from NHL training guide:

"There are Dahn-hak sabums and members who are positive or negative about Dahn-hak. However, this proves that the power number (from Power Vs. Force) of choosing Dahn is higher than that of leaving Dahn-hak. As much more people chose Dahn-hak, Dahn-hak was able to grow. Otherwise, Dahn-hak might have disappeared. This means many people have positively agreed with our vision in spite of the negative people."
"How can you become sacred without any trust and belief? You have to devote your life. Seu Seung never deserts Jeja, even though the jeja may make some mistake. But the Jeja's mind (through judgements,etc.), the Jeja leaves Seu Seung many times in a day. It is not equal flow and trade, because Seu Seung opens everything to the Jeja but the Jeja sometimes judges Seu Seung.

...If you want to be a sacred person, then you must be a trustworthy person. Many people try to find enlightenment, but don't try to be a trustworthy person. After becoming a trustworth person, you can become sacred and spiritually worthy. The real relationships between humans, and between humans and nature, is based on trust and belief. You can find strong trust and belief in the core of a strong organization or nation.
...So what hind of trust do you have? Are you a trustworthy person? The person who always keeps the trust and is trustworthy is a sacred/holy person.

...If you don't believe or trust me then there's no energy to establish the vision. And, if I don't believe or trust you then there's also no energy. This is the first rule of being a Jeja. Whether you have abilities or skills or not is of second importance. I can confidently tell you to trust me and Jeja can also tell Seu Seung to trust them. So it's a real trade.

When I first established Dahn-hak, and since then, I've kept rthe rule to protect my Jeja until the end.

...The most important relationship in the world is between Seu Seung and Jeja. If you think that E Sang In Gan Han Se Gae is the most important thing in your life and the goal of your life andd the goal of your life is to make it come true, then the relationship between you and me is the most precious relationship-more than between you and your parents or siblings. If you surely understand and keep this way of trust, then Ilchi Moon joong(Ilchi family) can have the most powerful energy to complete our vision. And at that time, you can become owner of the vision."

By HealerNoMore on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 05:47 pm:

David Hawkins's endorsement of Ilchi Lee doesn't mean that Lee must have been pure at one point, it means that David Hawkins erred in endorsing Ilchi Lee.

"The url for this board and the New Human Leader trainee material should be sent to David Hawkins. Let him begin to undo the damage he did by endorsing Ilchi Lee in the first place -- and to Neale Donald Walsch who more than endorses Ilchi Lee, and to Maurice Strong (UN) and Hanne Strong (Manitou Foundation), and Seymore Topping, and whoever named Lee one of the top 50 pre-eminent spiritual leaders of the world (who did that? Beliefnet? The UN?), etc."--Suziecue

I believe they are all in on the scam being put forth upon the unsuspecting public. Lee quotes Hawkins as in my post above. Did you know that Hawkins was a student of Levinson. Lee got the land from lester Levinson's estate. Levinson was also the inventor of the Sedona Method. I think lee probably borrowed some of that too. They still sell that program. I googled it once and there are two different authors of programs.

By lee using all of these other people he is legitimizing his own religion.

Didn't lee pay for all of the 50 spiritual leaders to be there. I did not see the Dalai Lama or the pope or any real known lesaders there. I wonder Why?

By HealerNoMore on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 05:48 pm:

Last line should say:

Didn't lee pay for all of the 50 spiritual leaders to be there. I did not see the Dalai Lama or the Pope or any real known leaders there. I wonder Why?

By insight on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 06:50 pm:

lee admits that he paid for there dinner so he would be able to speak in front of them.(spiritual leaders) They had no choice but to listen because he paid for the meal.
Also in lecture Lee admits he borrowed a ton of stuff from a program called Avatar. It is a very expensive program. He told us in lecture that he sent 3 of his highest master to take the program. I believe it cost a lot but took elements from it and created the shim sung program.
In the same meeting he said he studied mind control exstensively. he is a pro.

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 07:00 pm:

If you were to ask any one of the 50 top Spiritual Leaders in the World "Who is Ilchi Lee"?
None of them would know.

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 07:08 pm:

According to another site Lee delivered his Prayer for Peace at an event at the Waldorf Hotel after the Peace Summit at the U.N. hosted by him.

It appears that he never addressed the U.N. Peace Summit; nor was he invited.

Corrrect me if I am wrong.

By Laila on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 08:22 pm:

Laila, here. Have been away two weeks on an amazing journey to Japan, where I found the following quote from "The Teaching of the Buddha" which I would like to share with all of you, especially Hopeful, whose pain and struggle are very well known and understood by most of us here on this website: ...in his last words to his disciples, the Buddha said, "Make of yourself a light. Rely upon yourself: do not depend upon anyone else. Make my teachings your light. Rely upon them: do not depend upon any other teaching." This is not to recommend that we all convert to Buddhism, just that it is time for all truly enlightened souls to look to their own Master within. This is the true lesson I have learned from Dahnhak. I have read in the Kryon channelings (which I love and respect), that at this time many non-traditional religious/spiritual leaders will come into massive amounts of money as a test. It is not for me to judge whether or not GM Lee is passing his test, but it does occur to me that he is just another soul who is here for purification just like the rest of us, albeit one who has somehow gained some extra abilities, such as the ability to affect mind control on a large scale. Perhaps his lessons lie in the arena of what one does with massive wealth and power. Will it corrupt him? (Has it already?) For Hopeful, there is no "good", i.e.easy time to leave Dahnhak. As I mentioned in previous writings, I was on the verge of going to Korea on June 1st, having re-arranged my life to stay there for six months. I know exactly how it feels for you not to be going to Sedona at this time. But I also have just returned from a trip to Japan wherein I got to see a bigger, broader world, and met some amazing people. One, for example, is a woman who has studied T'ai Chi for 17 years and is a teacher of it, as well. She has a husband, three grown and successful children, is about to become a grandmother, looks about twenty years younger than others her age, and finds time to do lots of loving and caring deeds for others. I think this is a healthier picture of an enlightened person - one who functions well in the prevailing human society and is lightening up one corner of it. Can you and I see our way to becoming like this person, as opposed to a stressed-out, competitive, mindless fanatic who feels important because we "gave it all up" for the cause of Grand Master Lee? Is his cause really to heal the Earth? How would taking one's own life serve that cause? Incidentally, if you know Caleb, you might know me, too. I was his partner in Earth Shim-Sung at Yeha. Leila is a cover name.

I think the Masters might be perusing this and other web-sites. I've seen one of them spending hours and hours at a monitor. She appeared to be going on an extensive search, as opposed to say, creating brochures and the like. I, for one, however, do not fear reprisals. I recently got a refund of the money I had paid for my membership renewal, and the person in charge of the center was quite warm and loving to me over the phone. Of course, I have no way of knowing if he was sincere, or just trying to appease me so I wouldn't make trouble. Before I had my experience with Dahnhak, I used to think that it was impossible to "fake" love for other people. Perhaps this was my lesson in discernment. When is love unconditional and when is it loaded with alterior motives? I have fallen in love with my True Self. We travel together, and I trust this Self completely. All other relationships are just gravy. Hopeful, dig deep, my friend, and you will find the one who doesn't move when the whole world falls apart around you. I suggest long walks in the woods, or perhaps a trip overseas with your family (don't suggest Korea, though, until you are out of the woods with Dahnhak). Use the money you were planning to spend on Healers School.
Love to you all,
Laila

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 08:40 pm:

If anyone knows anything about David Hawkins, they would know that he has ways of calibrating a persons level of consciousness. He calibrated BR as integrous and helpful in the process of reaching enlightenment. I understand we are all disillusioned and disgusted with Lee for all the ugliness. But try to avoid black and white thinking. If you know anything about the history of spiritual teachers and how they sometimes evolve backwards, then you wouldn't be arguing Petrice's point. If David Hawkins calibrated Lee to be enlightened, then he probably was, or close to it. People can change. For the worse as well as for the better.

I really care about all of you and am sharing this with you from my heart. Take what works and leave the rest:

Watch out that you don't let your hurt and anger for what has happened to you result in destructive thoughts and behaviors. I encourage those of you who are steaming and stewing about Lee to focus inward and examine the source of your anger. It is likely that despite the truth about Dahn, your intense reaction is rooted in something that goes beyond your experience there. Take advantage of your pain to heal the core issues you are carrying within you. This is what I have been doing and it's much more healing than spending day in and day out ranting on the internet. Whatever it was that got you hooked into this system is at the root. What was it that Dahn gave you that made you feel so good? It was propably fulfilling a need that you have been unable to fill yourself. It is my belief that had we been healthier, we wouldn't have allowed them to manipulate our minds in that way. I am not saying it was our fault and I understand that they are masters at mind control, but there was still a hook somewhere. A vulnerability that they tapped into. This is not a bad thing, nor is it a way to pathologize us as members. It's simply the human condition. But rather than to villinize the perpetrator and play the role of victim, see your strength and how you were able to heal enough to open your eyes to the truth so that you could break away.

This is a huge opportunity for major growth and healing. I am grateful for those who are doing the work to expose the truths about Dahn and educate others. There is so much good that can come of this, but I don't believe that any good can come from someone if they haven't first resolved the core issues that are feuling the rage and hate they are feeling. Only good can come from a loving intention. If you find yourself taking action against Dahn with anger in your heart, take a moment. Step back and examine yourself. Do the healing on yourself before you reach out to help others. If we act out of anger, we are only perpetuating dis-ease. Read Thich Naht Han's work on anger, read Pema Chodron, whatever it takes to get refocused on loving compassion. I urge you. Please.

Thanks for letting me share my view.

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 09:20 pm:

Points to remember along the Spiritual Path

The "elites" of this world only rule because you give your personal power to them.

You are free to take your power back at any time.

Belief in the superiority of rulers is a reflection of your own fear, based in you own lack of self-esteem. Once your higher chakras are activated, you are your own best source of truth.

Fears make us easy to manipulate. You are the captain of your soul.

No matter how deep and terrifying your fears are, they are mere illusions created by your own consciousness. Recognize them as such and step through them to the other side.

As Spirit, we are authoritative co-creators with full power and full responsibility for what we create and how we create it.

Links that may be of interest:

The Tory Christman-Bezazian, 30 year member of Scientology who took her power back.
http://lisatrust.bogie.nl/stories/tory.htm

Lost Truth
"Osho, Bhagwan Rajneesh, and the Lost Truth"
Rajneesh and his followers the Rajneeshees
http://home.att.net/~meditation/Osho.html

Always keep in mind that the highest truths are loved based and never fear based.

Loving Compassion

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 09:30 pm:

"Enlightenment is not something you own it's something you channel" Quote from Christopher Calder author of "Osho, Bhagwan Rajneesh..."

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 10:52 pm:

Nice.
Let's keep the positive, loving messages coming.
When you act in anger, you still have not taken your power back from where you gave it,,,, Dahnhak.
Even though it is important to honor each stage of your grieving and healing process, OWN IT. Don't let the toxic energy of hate soil this healing venue of community. Some of those who left Dahn need a healthy place to go. Keep it loving, conscious, compassionate and postive.

Thanks to those who support this plea.

By Anonymous on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 11:38 pm:

I didn't see anyone here acting in anger, at least not inappropriately. Sometimes hurt must turn to anger in order to move on to action. Action leads to resolution which leads to less hurt and anger.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:06 am:

Be Unguarded

Don't try to defend your point of
view or protect yourself from others opinions
or verbal "attacks". The need to defend ones opinions comes from a place of fear, insecurity and weakness. Give that up, and take on the risk to be a greater fluid life-force for the
Universe that allows everyone to
have their experience.

If you get triggered, be like a flute.
Hollow and allowing the music to flow through you. Even if you feel you're stuck on a sour note from someone or something, simply allow that song to play through. Breathe it through your body and release it. I invite you not to try
to protect or defend your ego. It only
brings on more suffering, the more
energy we give it.

It's easier to see the deeper lessons
life is teaching us once we become an unobstructed channel of awareness. The more you can let down your defenses the more receptive you can become to the
abundance and divine power all
around you and inside you.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:08 am:

We each walk an individual path.
No one else can take our footsteps.
No one but us can live our unique life stories.
That is the hard truth that adults have to face.
The joys and pleasures of adult intimacy grow when we know our separateness.
We will always yearn for a past childhood in the generous care of loving parents with no stress and no demands.
But as adults we live in an insecure world, and no partner can ever create that security for us.

We move into wise and spiritual adulthood when we expect imperfection around us and develop a core of inner peace.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:10 am:

I Create My Day
The most often referenced interview in the film is Dr. Joe Dispenza's comments on creating his day. In response to the numerous requests, the following is the transcript of that part of the interview.
"I wake up in the morning, and I consciously create my day the way I want it to happen. Now, sometimes, because my mind is examining all the things that I need to get done, it takes me a little bit to settle down, and get to the point, of where I'm actually intentionally creating my day. But here's the thing."
"When I create my day, and out of nowhere, little things happen that are so unexplainable, I know that they are the process or the result of my creation. And the more I do that, the more I build a neural net, in my brain, that I accept that that's possible. Gives me the power and the incentive to do it the next day."
"So, if we're consciously designing our destiny, if we're consciously, from a spiritual standpoint, throwing in what the idea that our thoughts can affect our reality or affect our life, because reality equals life. Then, I have this little pact that I have when I create my day."
"I say, I'm taking this time to create my day, and I'm infecting the Quantum Field. Now, if it is in fact, the observer's watching me the whole time that I'm doing this, and there is a spiritual aspect to myself. Then, show me a sign today, that you paid attention to any one of these things that I created, and bring them in a way that I won't expect."
"So, I'm as surprised as the- as the- at my ability to be able to experience these things, and make it so that I have no doubt that its come from you. And so, I live my life, in a sense, all day long, thinking about being a genius, or thinking about being the glory and the power of God, or thinking about being Unconditional Love."
"I'll use living as a genius, for example. And as I do that, during parts of the day, I'll have thoughts that are so amazing, that cause a chill in my physical body, that have come from nowhere. But then, I remember that that thought has an associated energy, that's produced an effect in my physical body."
"Now, that's a subjective experience, but the truth is is that I don't think that unless I was creating my day to have unlimited thought, that that thought would come."
(Dr. Joe Dispenza in �What the #$BLEEP*! Do We Know!?�)

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:12 am:

I have watched the videotape of David Hawkins book Power Vs Force. I found it very interesting. The point I was trying to make is that lee will use anyone or anything he can to promote some legitimacy to his religion. If these so called friends of lee are being used I believe they know about it and are doing nothing to distance themselves from him. Look up the different groups he is aligned with: James Twyman, Neile Donald Walsch(even has his own room at Mago called Neil's Room),etc. Try looking up some of the groups mentioned on Rick Ross or just Google them. Dahn is just plain bad.

The only reason he is getting recognition from different cities is because his healers and masters are writing letters to city halls of certain major cities. There was an attempt to get him on Oprah and do the power brain dance. If you pay enough you can even get him a star on the Hollywood walk of fame. If this happens I will walk my dog there each and every day. Speaking of which, when he has his ashes spread next to his big Juniper tree I will let my dog go there to.

It is my right to rant. It is my way of healing.

I know how bad the organization really is to members.

Let's not forget Julia Siverls.

She died doing what lee wanted trying to become a master or Jeja.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:17 am:

"What the bleep do we know" Look out you are in the cult of ramtha!

If you purchased this movie you gave money to another cult. Lets keep this discussion on the cult of dahn.

Research the Rick Ross website.

By Mouse on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:47 am:

*peeks in* Hi again, everybody. *throws some no-bowing-required, no-$tring$-attached love bombs out for anyone who needs them*

I don't really have a coherent response to the training manual quotes lately (the gist of it would be "How can people THINK like that?"), but please keep 'em coming. The quotes from other authors are an interesting contrast, as well as a good reminder that you can't sell what's free.

In particular, though, I wanted to write a blanket response to Hopeful, Petrice, and the others who have struggled with "breakups" of one kind or another recently. I'm writing late at night, so I hope I don't sound too dumb. ;)

For those of you who have recently made the break and are grappling with embarrassment or loneliness: I know it's hard now, but consider that it did take strength to get where you are right now. Firstly, that you got involved in Dahnhak at all suggests a willingness to change, to grow and heal, or at the very least to try something new. (According to the health research coming out in the news lately, Americans are much more likely to sit on the couch, eat ding-dongs, chain smoke, and moan about the high cost of health care. But to actually LOOK for healther ways of living, and STICK to them? Shocking!)

Secondly, you all had the intestinal fortitude to trust yourselves, break with a herd, and ADMIT that something was wrong with what you experienced. Some people had an easier time identifying the problem than others, but whether you were abused by a master or just followed up on your vague feelings of "fishiness", you're here because you trusted your own judgment and decided not to conform anymore. To borrow a phrase from another poster, you trusted your personal bullshit detector, and acted on its signals. That isn't widely accepted in American culture, either. (SEE Politics, American for example.)

I hope I'm not rambling too badly, but what I want to point out is that we are all stronger for having had our experiences. My initial embarrassment over my credit card balance has turned into respect for my own good sense and intuition--yes, I DID know I was being scammed, and I'll know next time before it gets out of hand. I'm also much more critical of sales pitches and healing/spiritual techniques, so when I do go looking for another practice, I'll be better able to protect myself. (I am currently studying for a career in alternative medicine, which teems with snake-oil peddlers and bad science, so I'm grateful that my BS detector has been fine-tuned a bit.) It has also become clear that if people can devote 6-40+ hours a week to quasi-spiritual exercise, I can certainly spend that much time on what's really important to me! My relationships with family and friends have improved, as have my study habits. I hope that others can also find the "silver lining" in their stories--it's easier to walk away without looking back if we have something of value to take away, right?

Anyway, you guys don't have to share if you don't want to, and you have my permission to think I'm loopy, but is there something you've learned about yourself in your Dahnhak experience? Something that you would not have learned as well (or at all) anywhere else? You may not see the lesson yet, but give it time. In any case, I hope that you will continue looking for your love/healing/enlightenment/wisdom, and have better luck in the finding.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 07:52 am:

Good idea Mouse; you never sound loopy. Yea, glad you are aware of the snake oil peddlers in the alterntive field.

Healernomore and others; Are they still using the Power v Force work in the various training? Somehow in back of my mind I assumed they were not referring to it. So I figured David Hawkins got after them.
The last year I was there his name or work was never mentioned.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 08:20 am:

I did a Google search on David Hawkins and Seung Heun Lee (and then Ilchi Lee) and I didn't see any endorsement of Lee from Hawkins. Makes you wonder.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 08:37 am:

Sorry if I missed the point, but the quotes from the anons above, "Be Unguarded," and the one from What the Bleep movie made me feel sick. Reminded me of the time someone in my family died and people at work gave me a Hallmark card signed by everyone at the office, but some people blindly wrote things like "congratulations," and "good luck" and "best wishes for a speedy recovery" on the card. I feel grateful when people share their personal experiences and feelings and their knowledge about Dahn and help us all to get to the truth and the facts, and to talk about the best way to handle it -- but not to go off into la-la land. Dahn thrives on la-la land. Of course no one should go overboard and become vengeful and hateful, and I don't see anyone here doing that here.
Thank you for listening.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 08:48 am:

Look people, if you are going to start talking BS like that watching a movie (What the bleep) is now qualifying for supporting a cult, I am going to stop visiting this website. Jesus! This is the kind of movie that is going to help raise the consciousness of society.

And if you read the first BR book published, David Hawkins wrote the forward. He no longer supports Ilchi Lee's movement. I contacted him directly about this. It makes me wonder, yes, what this website is really about.

Ignorance does not excuse making false claims no more here than in Dahnhak.

Beware of mob-mentality...

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 09:16 am:

Anon 2:18, this board is exactly about what you just did! -- telling other people what you know, adding new information, clearing up misunderstandings. This board isn't about the Bleep movie, so just pasting in a quote from the movie leaves it wide open to interpretation as to what the poster's point is.

I agree, no false claims! Along those lines, will you quote for us here what Hawkins actually said?

By fresh-ex on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 11:59 am:

getting through this (leaving) has benefited me tremendously as long as i focus on the lessons learned. sometimes i forget that this is a short term thing, and yes, i get angry!!
i dreamt a couple of nights ago that my chest opened and i was able to actually touch my true essence, like i knew myself as a person better than i ever imagined. this is the same in waking life as well, when i stay level-headed. i think, wow, who knew i was this strong? i had no idea my own personal values ran this deep. and all week its been in my face. knowing people are lying to me, getting over some pretty heavy patterns, finding five hundred dollars hanging out of a bank machine (that was yesterday). its me watching myself evolve i guess.
i still feel very strongly about giving your money to a group that manipulates people and lies to them and lets them die on hikes. i think about that woman alot. i have spent time in the desert. like i said before, if you choose to stay with a group "for the exercise" you might as well say you are on-board with them BECAUSE YOU ARE.
my friend got her money back. now i am going to the media. wish me luck

By caleba76 on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:00 pm:

Just wanted to say hi to everyone. Still enjoying all of the postings. Everyone here has so much to share that it makes me feel better just to read your posts.

To Mouse, I think you made some really good points not rambling at all. Just the fact that everyone here was able to go to Dahn says alot about them. All we need to do is find another form of exercise and meditation that can help us grow into the strong, thoughtful, caring human beings that we can and should be.

To Laila, Unfortunately I have been through so many trainings with so many different partners I am having trouble recalling who you are. If you want to talk you are more than welcome to email me caleba76@yahoo.com.

Well thanks everyone for letting me be a part of this it has helped me tremendously.

Caleb

By Caleba76 on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:02 pm:

And to Fresh-ex Good Luck

By fresh-ex on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 12:02 pm:

and by the way, i do my exercises at home just fine, without needing some person calling themselves a sabumnim after ten days of training telling me who i am and how much money i need to let go of in order to grow. **** that
thanks

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 01:38 pm:

good luck fresh-ex!

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 01:48 pm:

Fresh-ex and others, I think 20-20 would be a good media program for people here to approach. They have a website for contacting them. I think that if they hear from several people, maybe they will take it seriously. \

To the person so offended at the idea that someone would dare accuse the What the Bleep movie of being a cult, I don't want to change the subject from Dahn, really I don't, but opening our eyes to Dahn means opening our critical-thinking minds to learn how to recognizing damaging, dangerous cults in general. To start, please read: http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/6/486.html?1091389402, and keep researching. The truth will set us all free.

By Mouse on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 02:55 pm:

Hunh. I haven't seen "What the Bleep" myself because it didn't sound to me like a new concept. But it sounds like the movie is yet another "Love the idea, don't like the propagator/perpetrator" phenomenon. Quantum physics and the power of positive thinking are (here we go AGAIN) ideas that are both freely available and readily twistable. "What the Bleep" got rave reviews at my school, but when the Seattle Weekly (or was it the Stranger? One of the local papers, anyway) ran an article about its ties to channelers and shady Gnostic schools, everyone suddenly stopped talking about it. ;P Hmm.

I don't equate watching the movie to directly agreeing with a cult, no... it's just that if you buy a product, and the proceeds benefit a church/cult/group/whatever, then you could see it as supporting them. Voting with your wallet, as it were. (Hence the debate about the ethics of just doing Dahnhak for the exercise.)

Regarding fact-checking, the Internet is a wonderful place, but it's entirely possible that some of the quotes/statements that we find are outdated, incomplete, or just plain wrong. We're all interested in the truth, so if you see an error or if you heard differently, please point it out. (If you can cite/date your source, so much the better!) Knowledge is power, wiser today than we were yesterday, and so on. Thanks.

By Mouse on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 03:05 pm:

Ah, it WAS the Seattle Weekly. Here's their take on "What the Bleep". I must admit to being affected by its bias, but it does give you something to Google by if you want to look into Knight or Ramtha or the production of the movie.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0510/050309_news_mossback.php

(And now, back to our regularly scheduled program?)

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 03:31 pm:

Hot off the press;
response from Dr. Hawkins after receiving this link today.

Dear Submitter:

Thank you for proposing to submit your work for our perusal, however, we cannot possibly do justice to unsolicited material due to the sheer volume and our ongoing commitments and limitations of available staff.

Our policy is therefore not to accept materials as they cannot be reviewed. We also cannot evaluate, calibrate, publish, or endorse submitted materials.

Dr. Hawkins is inspired by the increase in enlightened material emerging and wishes you well in your creative endeavors.

Dr Hawkins knows nothing about the teaching of Dr.llchi Lee.

Dr Hawkins has a list of characteristics of Spiritual Truth and Interferes Teachers and Teachings.

1) Universality: Truth is true at all time and places, independent of culture,personalities,or circumstances.

2) Nonexcusionary: Truth is all-inclusive,no secretive,and nonsectarian.

3) Availability: It is open to all; non-exclusive. There are no secrets to be revealed,hidden,or sold,and no magical formulas or "Mysteries."

4) Integrity of purpose: There is nothing to gain or lose.

5) Nonsectarian: Truth is not the exposition of limitation.

6) Independent of opinion: Truth is nonlinear and not subject to the limitations of intellect or form.

7) Devoid of Positionality: Truth is not "anti"anything. Falsehood and ignorance are not its enemies but merely represent its absence.

8) No requirements or demands: There are no required memberships,dues, regu.lations, oaths,rules,or conditions.

9) No controlling: Spiritual purity has no interest in the personal lives of aspirants,or in clothing ,dress style,sex lives, economics,family patterns,lifestyles, or dietary habits.

10) Free of force or intimidation: There is no brainwashing,adulation of leaders,training rituals, indoctrinations,or intrusions into private life.

11) Nonbonding: There are no regulations, laws ,edicts,contracts, or pledges.

12) Freedom: Participants are free to come and go without persuasion,coercion,intimidation. or consequences. There is no hierarchy;instead, there is voluntary fulfillment of practical necessities and duties.

13) Commonality: Recognition is a consequence of what one has become rather that as a result of ascribed titles, adjectives, or trappings.

14) Inspirational: Truth eschews and avoids glamorization,seduction, and theatrics.

15) No materialistic: Truth is devoid of neediness of the worldly wealth, prestige, pomp,or edifices.

16) Self-fulfilling: Truth is already total and complete and has no need to proselytize or gain adherents, followers,to "sign up members."

17) Detached: There is noninvolvement in world affairs.

18) Benign: Truth is identifiable along a progressive gradient. It has no "opposite" and therefore no "enemies" to castigate or oppose.

19) No intentional: Truth does not intervene or have a agenda to propose,inflict, or promulgate.

20) No dualistic: All transpires by virtue of intrinsic (karmic) propensity within the field by which potentiality manifests as actuality rather than by "cause" and effect.

21) Tranquillest and Peace: There are no "issues" or partialities. There is no desire to change others or impose on society,. The effect of higher energies is innate and not dependent on propagation or effort. God doesn't need help any more that gravity needs the "help" of an apple's falling off the tree.

22) Equality: This is expressed in reverence for all of life in all its expression and merely avoids that which is deleterious rather than opposing it.

23) No temporality: Life is realized to be eternal and physicality as a temporality. Life is not subject to death.

24) Beyond proof: That which is "provable" is linear, limited, and product of intellectualization and mutation. Reality needs no agreement. Reality is not a acquisition but instead is the Revelation that replaces the illusion of a separate individual self,the ego,and its mutation.

25) Mystical: The origination of truth is a spontaneous effulgence, radiance, and illumination, which is the Revelation that replaces the illusion of the separate individual.

26) Ineffable: Not capable of definition. Radical subjectivity is experiential. It is a condition that replaces the former. With this event, context replaces content,devoid of temporality and beyond time. Reality does not exist in time, or of it, or beyond it, or outside of it,and it has no relationship to that which is a artifice of mentation. It is therefore beyond all nouns, adjectives, or verbs,transitive or intransitive.

27) Simplistic: One sees the intrinsic beauty and perfection of all that exists beyond appearance and form.

28) Affirmative: Truth is beyond opinion or provability. Confirmation is purely by its subjective awareness;however,it is identifiable by consciousness calibration techniques.

29) Nonoperatove: Truth does not "do" anything or "cause"anything; it is every thing.

30) Invitational: As contrasted with promotional or persuasive.

31) Nonpredictive: Because Reality is nonlinear, it cannot be localized or encoded in restriction of form,such as secret messages, codes,numbers, and inscriptions, or hidden in runes, stones, the dimensions of the pyramid, the DNA,or the nostril hairs of the camel. Truth has no secrets. The Reality of God is omnipresent and beyond codification or exclusivity. Codes are indicative of man's imagination and not the capriciousness of Divinity.

32) No sentimental: Emotionality is based on perception. Compassion result from the discernment of truth.

33) No authoritarian: There are no rules or dictates
34) No egoistic: Teachers are respected but reject personal adulation or special ness.

35) Educational: Provides information is a variety of formats and ensures availability.

36) Self-supporting: Neither mercenary nor materialistic.

38) Natural: Devoid of induced, altered status of consciousness or manipulations of energies by artificial exercises,postures, breathing,or dietary rituals,(i.e.,no reliance on form or physicality;no invoking of entities or "others").

This is from the new book Truth vs Falsehood that will be out in one month.

Cultism

Cults ensnare the unwary by their special ness and false promises. Members have a "insider" status and a special "lingo". The group leader is charismatic, seductive, and counts the initiate, who is flattered by the attention. The leader is very "special" and treated with adulation, which is quickly turned into control of members, including especially their money and sex lives, as well as lifestyles,diets,clothing ect. Members must take allegiance and break off relationships with family or even spouses and often associations or groups.

Thank you,
Pat
Veritas Publishing

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 04:33 pm:

"Dr Hawkins knows nothing about the teaching of Dr.llchi Lee."

That's an amazing thing for Dr. Hawkins to admit after writing the forward for Lee's BR book?!

Thanks for all that information, anonymous # 3 billion.
Suziecue

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 06:47 pm:

Can anybody send the link to this site to all masters and healers in training?

By hopeful on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 08:12 pm:

Is there anyway I can receive the entire text of New Human Leadership training, I found what a couple of you posted from the manual very interesting. Laila....thank you so much for your message to me, it really helped.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 08:17 pm:

HealerNoMore, in answer to your question about Lee being at the "World Peace Summit of Religious and Spiritual Leaders" at the UN -- he apparently was.

Beliefnet lists Lee under their "Who's Who" link, on their "Full Listing of Preeminent Religious Leaders in Attendance" (50 in all), and they list him as a scheduled speaker. He is seen in photos too. And the official summit website shows him in a group photo.

I read somewhere that he financed food for the event after the summit, at the hotel. That shouldn't imply any favoritism was gained.

I don't see where the Summit officials themselves labeled Lee or anyone as the top 50 pre-eminent leaders in attendance. The official summit website refers to 1000 (or 2000) "preeminent" leaders in attendance.

If it's just a Beliefnet.com list, then Lee should say that he was designated one of the top 50 preeminent spiritual leaders by the website Beliefnet, not by the Summit.

http://www.beliefnet.com/index/index_1014.html
http://www.beliefnet.com/index/index_1043.html
http://www.millenniumpeacesummit.com/mwps_about.html

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 08:17 pm:

I saw a self promotional video about all that lee has done for humanity. In the video there was lee with an entourage and in the front next to lee was Dr Hawkins. It looked like the video was filmed at Mago garden.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 08:24 pm:

Me too (found the manual very interesting). It would violate copyright laws, I think, to post it all here or anywhere without permission. Excerpts for discussion purposes are considered "fair use."

Are there other passages that talk about using bodily force to defend Dahn and Lee? Are there any passages in there that promote peaceful and passive resistance to opposition?

Does anyone know if violence was ever used against opposers?

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 08:25 pm:

Every time the un peace summit is brought up, it is made to look like lee is one of the top 50 leaders. This adds to his prestige in the local centers. When members see professional quality stories and promotions about what he has done it adds to his credibility. Even though some of the advertisements were purchased by dahn to make him look good. Some examples were the magazine they published and the city of Atlanta and I believe it was Los Angeles giving him his own day.
These were done by members who had a letter writing campaign and paid for any applications. I refused to take part in this when I was asked, because I believed it was fraudulent and self promoting.

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 08:30 pm:

I have never found any of the masters to be violent. They shy away from any controversy. Their sole purpose is to bring in members and make money for lee. I have never seen any type of confrontation with any outsider or insider for that matter. If they were to participate in any type of violent behavior it would interfere with their training practices of being peaceful, productive and creative.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 09:16 pm:

Lee's Healing Society website says, "Ilchi Lee is an international peace activist recognized by the United Nations as one of the fifty pre-eminent spiritual leaders of the world."

Excuse me, but "the United Nations did not sponsor the Millennium World Peace Summit or issue invitations." (See http://www.beliefnet.com/story/40/story_4065_1.html?rnd=70).

The event was simply held at the UN.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 09:18 pm:

HealerNoMore, so what does this say about how we are understanding his manual? Are we misinterpreting?

By HealerNoMore on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 10:45 pm:

My understanding is that he may want masters to give their lives in defense of him or dahn or the vision, but the reality is they would not readily do this. I don't believe they would readily lay down their lives for him. If they are physically attacked they may fight back in self defense as would any normal person. It is human nature to want to live. I think lee says these things to make himself more important to anyone who will listen to him. I would guess there are some real diehard masters who live and breathe on his every word. The majority would just go home to their families.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 09:01 am:

Hopeful. The entire manuel is over 60 pages single spaced. 80% is the usual writings, lectures on Leadership. " You should develop honesty, integrity, and responsibility" Egotism, Pushups, Joy of the soul. Laziness is an illusion, Emotional Health, Divinity, Principles, Growth of Soul etc.
In one section he says; tell yourself every day "It is my fault; whatever goes wrong; it is my fault" Another section Tell yourself "I am Great" I am a Power Brain etc.

Everything seems to be geared to Vision; and doing whatever it takes to achieve Vision.

Anon#3billion

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 11:32 am:

This was something I got in an email today and wanted to share. Hope you are all well and having a blessed Sunday.

Today's thought is:
>
>A negative attitude creates problems, not opportunities.
>
>Some of us exaggerate small setbacks, making our lives far more complicated than necessary. Instead, we need to nurture a positive outlook. The wise among us say, "It's all in how you look at it."
>
>Acknowledging our negative attitude is the first step to discovering happiness. As Wilhelm von Humboldt said, "I am more and more convinced that our happiness or unhappiness depends far more on the way we meet the events of life than on the nature of those events themselves." We can't deny the difficulty inherent in many circumstances, nor the pain that accompanies losses. We can, however, choose to see our experiences, no matter how traumatic, as lessons moving us closer to the enlightened state God intends for us.
>
>I will see my experiences as positive lessons today. No one can change my perception but me.
>
>
>You are reading from the book:
>
> [ http://www.hazelden.org/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=2675 ]
>
>*A Life of My Own by Karen Casey* [ http://www.hazelden.org/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=2675 ]
>
>Copyright 1993 by Hazelden Foundation. All rights reserved. Printed in the United States of America. No portion of this publication may be reproduced in any manner without the written permission of the publisher.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 11:35 am:

Anon 6/5 5:02, and your point is...?

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 11:37 am:

Is your point that we should all stop thinking negatively about Lee and Dahn and lalalalalallaallalalala?

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 11:54 am:

Susiecue, et al:
David Hawkins, did in fact, write the forward to the first edition of the BR book: Lee, I. (1998) Brain Respiration: a powerful technique to energize your brain. Published in Seoul Korea by Han Mun Hwa Publishing Co.

I am posting some emails that were sent to a friend of mine after writing an email to request help. He also recieved an email that gave the list out of his most recent book but since you already have that, I won't resend it. Obviously, it doesn't say "Dr Hawkins knows nothing about the teaching of Dr.llchi Lee." since saying that would be totally contradictory...anyway, here is what they said:

Hi
Dr. Hawkins is unable to respond to your inquiry directly but we often hear him say,

"A true Spiritual teacher is literally a 'Mind Healer'. The healing that they offer has nothing to do with money. It is their intention to offer tools for enlightenment -- the 'gift' is extended whether money is present or not. If a teacher says you cannot receive the mind healing without giving money, he is not a Spiritual teacher."

Dr. Hawkins a spiritual teacher, not a guru, celebrating the process of enlightenment in his talks and writings. The healing can happen simply from receiving the truth of this message. If someone wants to play with more tangible things like a like-minded group, the speaker's presence and a place to sit and listen, they are asking for things in the world (not the mind) to be present. Sometimes those 'things' ask for money, but the 'mind healing' does not.

In summary, the logistics and cost of our overhead are elementary. The gift of mind healing is no charge!

Thank you,
Pat
Veritas Publishing
www.veritaspub.com

In addition to his preference to not express partiality, Dr. Hawkins' work and speaking tour do not create a space for him to read or endorse all the wonderful contributions that are being expressed during this time in our consciousness evolution. He thanks you for answering the call to extend the good news. We did do the forward on his book but things have changed in the Dahnhak pathway. We have check it out and they are not the same as in the beginning.

Thank you,
Pat
Veritas Publishing
www.veritaspub.com

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 12:17 pm:

For those of you who question my point in sharing a positive message, it is simply to share something positive. It was not to point a finger or blame. I believe this is a good reminder to us all. I'm sorry you took it as an attack. You might want to read the one titled "Be Unguarded". That one has been a huge help to me since I first read it. I am also sorry that it seems some of us can share on this website with welcome and others are targeted. I am just like you. I am healing from the pain that I experienced from devoting a year of my life and thousands of dollars to Dahn. I almost didn't share anything on this website but everyone seemed so supportive of each other that I thought it would be nice to join you all in my journey. I just don't want to support anything that is not at least AS positive as Dahn was. It's too easy for me to get sucked into negative thinking. I don't want to go down that road again.

Love and Light

By Stillahealer on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 01:13 pm:

Like HealernoMore I tend to assume that most masters would not become violent against their detractors. They are encouraged to exhibit anger when Lee or the organization is in danger. This comes under his lecture of Being Emotionally Healthy. "If one can not feel angry when seeing that someone is hunting Sam-Bo, then he or she is an ill person."

I have experienced this first hand; once when another healer would not go along on a print media piece without giving credit to the author.

The next time their anger was directed at myself because I would not say that my Vision was my total Life. This is an over simplification of the longer story; however still wish to stay under cover. ie. Deep Throat

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 01:16 pm:

"hunting Sam-Bo. should be "hurting Sam-Bo"

Fruidian Slip
or Fraud Slip

By Stillahealer on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 01:19 pm:

Freud would love this

By Tania on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 02:13 pm:

We don't want to be sucked into negative thinking with victim mentality, or vengeful attitude for the sake of holding the grudge and hurt. We need to learn and practice to let go. And ironically the meditation and energy healing practice we learned from them should help us to do exactly that. (again, can we practice discernment and keep the baby without the bath water)

Having said that, however, there are things in the world that are considered to be innately "wrong" and Dahn is ever expanding their circle of influence with their wrongful practice. It's more than their opportunistic greediness for money. They are violationg trusting people's soul and spritually raping people. That's simply wrong and they need to be stopped.

Kowing what we know, we should educate people and speak out to the community, in trying to shed some light on dark corners of the organization and bring out the truth about them, so that no more people go through what we have gone through. and they stop giving a bad name to truely honorable spritual healers and practiioners.

Correcting something that is wrong needs to happen and is part of a natural course of human evolution. Throughout the history human made many terrible mistakes, but because there were alway people willing to voice and stand against the wrong, the human society was able to evolve.

Naive passivity for the sake of wanting to be non-judgemental or letting go is not a virtue in itself. Taking constructive, rightful, and peaceful action can be a healing and contribution to others as well.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 04:20 pm:

Well said, Tania. Please tell what happened to you, and you too Anon 5:47 (Love and Light). You are welcome, of course. I agree that it seems more informative to hear details of what people have gone through at Dahn, so go for it. And StillAHealer, I hope you can say what actually happened to you, I mean without revealing your identity too much.

Even if masters are non-violent, the fact that Lee is teaching that they should use their body to defend him and Dahn, that alone is cause for worry because Dahn is currently flourishing, but what happens when and if Lee loses significant credibility -- and business profits. Will the masters be called upon to be like one on the tip of needle with Lee and start beating up opposers, or even worse. If nothing else, his manual shows that Lee is not really about peace in the non-violent sense.

I heard Lee shut down a website and a discussion board in Korea. I recommend that we save this list now and then to our harddrives, just in case.

I still wish I could figure out how that one center in Colorado. broke free. I don't want to call them to ask because I keep thinking that everyone here is flooding them with calls. Would they really reveal what happened to a stranger on the phone? Can someone describe how a Dahn Center can go on its own? Sorry for being so obtuse about that.

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 04:56 pm:

Susiecue,
What state are you in? I had a long chat with the people who run the center in Denver. If you want to know more, maybe we can figure out a way to talk on the phone or meet. I don't know how we could do that tho... Any ideas?

Love and light

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 07:30 pm:

Can you can share the general picture here so that others can read it too. Maybe I'll understand it the second time around. Can we all really just call them and they'll explain how they broke away?
Suziecue

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 07:59 pm:

Colarado Dahn Center; not affiliated with Dahn.

If this is the same couple I believe it to be; they were both highly visible in the organization. This couple was used in many photo ops; we attended the same Healer School class. The All American Couple with the Colorado Outdoor Good Lucks. She worked with handicapped children and incorporated Dahn into her practice.
From what I know of the Dahn organization they would have made many concessions to enable this couple to foster the Dahn program on any terms possible.

A few months ago the female's photo was removed from one of the Dahn websites; made me wonder.
Just playing private detective here.

Am I on the right track?

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 08:23 pm:

No, but I know who you are talking about. they are still in Dahn. You're thinking of Steven I think and he's a Jwjn now. I thought they were a couple too but I don't think they are. They just did a BR camp together. Anyway, it's not them. It's the Cherry Creek center in Denver. You can look it up and just call them and ask what you want to know. It's not a secret that have broken away. It's Nick and Caroline. I just don't want to say anything they told me in a private conversation.

Susiecue, I think I mentioned awhile back that they owned their center before they broke off and that it was a peaceful separation. They are also teaching a form of Tai Chi that is from Korea. They have a Korean instructor who is not a Dahn person either but is a master of this Korean form. I think it's called Sun Do. They are also having classes doing yoga stretches and stuff but they aren't doing the ki gung or hang gong. I can't wait to go, my first class is this Tues so I will know more then. But basically, they are retaining aspects of the practice that they feel are pure and not actually Dahn, such as Chun Bu Kyung. Thay said this sacred text is not a creation of Dahn. They still bow and greet the same way too. But I have to tell you, when I was there, it felt TOTALLY different. It felt real and peaceful and just, "right". Something I never totally felt at Dahn.

Susiecue, are you uncomfortable revealing what state you're in?

Love and Light

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 08:48 pm:

I prefer the anonymity, sorry.

I get it now. If they owned the center before, they didn't have to buy it back, and they weren't the typical poor penniless masters to begin with. I'm happy for you that it feels much better now to be there.

Thanks,
Suziecue

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 09:42 pm:

Love and Light & Others,

I don't want to go around being the bearer of bad news,(I hope this isn't the case @ the Cherry Creek center in Denver) Jeung San Do is a new "cult/sect" movement from Korea. (Another has landed!!!)

Please read, research and judge for yourself. (Another human who claims he is the ruling god of the universe)

http://www.jeungsando.org

On Tuesday, Love and Light(Anon 1:53) please research the site and have your questions ready.

Loving Compassion

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 10:22 pm:

There is a message board on this website;

http://falsemessiah.proboards23.com/

They discuss various Korean cults including the one mentioned above; jeungsando

I also know Nick and Caroline. I met them about four years ago and did several training programs with them. They are good people.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 10:23 pm:

Hmm, I think Love and Light said "sun do" not san do.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 10:56 pm:

I am not worried about Nick and Caroline getting involved in another cult. Nor am I concerned that it will happen to me again either. In response to:
"On Tuesday, Love and Light(Anon 1:53) please research the site and have your questions ready."
I don't have any qustions for you. Just because a person teaches a martial art, does not make it a cult. Before you make these kinds of statements, maybe you should call and talk to them first.

Susiecue, this is a big part of why I didn't want to say anything. I wrote just a little of what I feel was safe to share without people drawing false conclusions and it looks like it still happened.

I have tried to find a good reason why I should continue communicating with you guys. There are so many who seem to have a healthy attitude. But those of you who are stuck in fear, suspicion, anger, I just don't want to waste anymore of my time on this. Sorry.

I wish you all the very best.

Love and Light

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 10:56 pm:

http://www.sundo.org/

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 11:18 pm:

Love and Light, the best thing about this discussion is that it is self-correcting, meaning that if someone makes a mistake in their assumptions, someone else corrects it or questions it. I think the person warning about another possible cult was well-intentioned. There are an abundance of cults out there these days, and it's natural to be nervous about it. So far, two people have corrected the mistake.

It's an amazing group here. Thank you all for your honesty and information.

Suziecue

By clockwork on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 05:58 am:

It seems all of these feelings of suspicion is only human nature after what all of us has experienced with Dahn. I think it is a natural reaction to anything that has to do with Dahn. I am trying hard not to be negetive but it is human nature to feel angry about what Dahn has done to many people. I am angry that I lost thousands of dollars and I am now broke and barely scraping by. My master knew this, she was a young single woman also and she knows what a hard situation I was in, now it is worse! I can't help feeling bad or negetively about that. I will not allow any other young, single, person to lose their hard earned money or livlihood to these people. Also we all must be patient with one another, everyone reacts differently to experiences, I don't think anyone means harm, I care about all of you, we share a common experience I wish you all the best. I don't want anyone to be offended or put off. Also regarding the movie "What the Bleep" when that movie first came out I was involved in Dahn and the masters raved about it and STRONGLY suggested that we all see it. They also had a group outing of Dahn Members to be taken to see it. I think that is why I am biased against the movie, I will never see it and I will certainly never buy it, who knows who I am giving my money to, I am to cautious now. My trust has been broken by Dahn. But I thank you all for beign on thsi website and sharing you amazing, heartfelt experiences. I wish you all the best, I will always keep writing on this site, I can't be offended at this point, we all have our own way of dealing with this.
Hopeful, you are very strong and I hope you are well.
Fresh-Ex Good luck to you, I am so happy to hear you are going to the media, someone needs to have the courage to do it. GOOD LUCK

By Anonymous on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 06:16 am:

I just want to say "thank you". When I posted the link to jeungsando.org, it was not out of a place of fear or nervousness, but rather from the "heart". We share a common bond which I respect and cherish. It is wonderful to witness our acts of free expression---something often frowned upon at Dahn.

Loving Compassion

By hopeful on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 10:39 am:

I am definitely going through withdrawls from dahn. Despite the fact that I havent gone to healer school, I havent gone to my center either, I am doing fairly well. I at least still have my qigong practice that I was doing prior to dahn so I am still benefiting from my practice. The mostimportant thing for me is to maintain a relationship with my wife. The one thing I am grateful to dahn for is it helped reveal to me that my family is more important than anything in the whole world. I hope my relationship is still salvageable. It doesnt look good. Please keep in mind it wasnt dahn that caused problems in our marriage, but it is part of it, at least from her perspective. I am so sad...but I am getting strength and I think the initial shock of my wife being in love with another man is wearing off. Now I am just trying to be strong and hope that I can find my way back to her heart.
Thanks

By Anonymous on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 11:48 am:

"The one thing I am grateful to dahn for is it helped reveal to me that my family is more important than anything in the whole world."

I'm confused. I thought that Dahn masters are pressured and persuaded to give up attachment to family and to focus on Lee and Dahn.

Glad for you, anyway, that you're trying to save your marriage and family. Even if your marriage ends in divorce, you are still blessed to have your children -- and to have yourself still intact after joining Dahn.

Love,
Anon # 3gazillion

By Anonymous on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 11:50 am:

Oopsy, I think I see what you meant now, that by Dahn trying to pull you away from family, that you now realize that family is more important.

Anon 3gazillion

By clockwork on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 12:03 pm:

Good for you Hopeful, I am truly, sincerely happy for you, like I stated prior, I believe that everything will fall into place in due time and with patience. You should be very proud of your strength, brains, and courage! I hope you realize that now you have regained your personal ability to make your own choices about how you want your life to be! Congrats again. I hope you are well. Keep writing.
love
clockwork

By Stillahealer on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 12:17 pm:

Hopeful,
I am sure your relationship is still salvageable; may not be exactly like before. When she comes to her senses and realizes like you do how important family is to all of you I am Hopeful you and your family will be in for a better life.
She may have some expectations that will need to be mediated for the best possible outcome.

I had so much time on my hands after Dahn that my husband and I had to work through some issues. While I was so busy I did not question him about his comings and goings. Then all of a sudden all my old Trust issues came into full view.
Feelings of betrayal by Dahn had me open up to so much of my past that I tried to pretend were resolved.
It took me six months of intense recovery to find the true source of my distrust. Dahn just triggered it and for that I am grateful. See Love and Light if you peek back in; we all are grateful for the lesson in some shape or form.

So Hopeful what style Qigong do you practice? I practice Yan Xin although I do not attend a group practice.

Keep the faith.

By hopeful on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 03:02 pm:

I practice yang style taiqiquan, and zahn zuang, which as it turns out is yeon don, funny huh? Great book called The Way Of Energy by Master Lam kam Chen, I believe..
The Roots of Chinese Qigong by Dr Yang or any other book by him for that matter is a great study of qigong and taiqi practice. Thanks for all your kind words and support.

By sunshine on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 03:28 pm:

Anon,5:18 a.m. - yes, I think that the Dahn org. tries to separate you from your family/children - slowly but surely.

This was the FIRST clue that I had that this was not a truth. I think they were just slowly but surely filling enough of my time away from my family that eventually we would come to the ultimatum breaking point of having to make a choice between Dahn or family and by then, I would have been to drunk on the kool-aid to turn back. I know first hand of several masters who have left their families. When I asked about how/why they did it = it was for their "vision". I would come back to this point with my jwjn - and always is that you will see...that's probably why I felt the jwjn's anger when I refused to go back to Sedona for advanced training. I was at some critical "point" according to the jwjn. That's when the hair went up on my neck.

I only know of one master who finally went back to Korea to his/her family- I am now very at peace knowing what he/she did.

I could care less that I forked over $30,000+, my family is priceless. If I have that attachment, then atleast I know I have it- I can still learn to grow without abandoning my very young child/children - I just don't see how abandoning a child can be "truthfull"

I'd like to know if anyone else out there besides hopeful has had that experience. I also think that is a reason they target young/singles with the fewest worldly attachments.

Sunshine

By Mouse on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 07:00 pm:

Hmm. At my center they seemed to encourage entire families to join. One person would join, then be nagged into nagging his/her spouse to join, then they would ask about the kids... I never saw an entire family in doboks, but there were occasionally children hanging around while their parents were in class. Oddly, the kids weren't invited in for practice... maybe the parents hadn't paid for the extra memberships. *shrugs* I never witnessed any of the family breakup business (though I believe your stories), but I never really got past the outer circle, either.

Targeting young singles? Hell yes. Two words: DISPOSABLE INCOME. The lack of attachments helps too, I s'pose.

By HealerNoMore on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 08:22 pm:

I believe that most people want to be free. They want the freedom to live the lives they dreamed of as they were growing up. We have the desire to have a large house, a fancy car, a wonderful spouse and children, and a great paying job we love. This is not the reality most of us face. When life puts too much pressure on us our first instinct is to look for someone to guide us to what we want (safety). This is where gurus like lee make their entrance. We are led to believe he has the answer to make us happy and fulfilled. This is not true. The only thing lee does is free us from the need to think for ourselves. In our search for fulfillment we have given control of our lives over to a con man. He uses us as tools to further his own game. He is a very rich man, yet many if not all of his followers are poor. He has them believe that it is better this way, so we continue to pay high fees for courses that keep us coming back for more. When does it end? When will I finally get to the final course that gives me the fulfillment that I crave? Why must I spend my entire life being dependant on lee? Why must I be his slave? This is not just lee but every other guru/cult leader’s method of operation. They want you to not think for yourselves and keep being dependant on them for some mystery knowledge that will make your life happy and fulfilled. This knowledge will never arrive because they don’t have it themselves. Lee was probably in a position he hated and he figured out if he can advise and guide people who are worse off than himself, he will get rich and be self important. He has made it. Will you? You won’t if you keep following him. Do you remember playing follow the leader as a child? If you follow lee you will never be a leader, only a poor follower.

Wake up and take control of your lives back. They belong to you not to lee or anyone else.

By Anonymous on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 09:27 pm:

Here's something that someone posted on a website that isn't active anymore; I happened to save it: (names deleted)

He's worried about xxxx; Dahnhak people have been after him to sell his car. What's that about? Seems pretty over-controlling to me. [Later note: Koreans have no idea how poor public transport is in the States. They have such a good system here.] yyyy thinks the outfit is beginning to act like a cult,- at least, that's how it smells to him. I'm of the opinion that xxxx will put up with more than most folks, but when he gets fed up, he'll blow them off royally. That's his pattern.

It's harder this time, because there is so much good about the group. The leader appeals to xxxx's ideals. He's put 5 years of his life into making this project work. The ultimate aim, world peace, is a noble goal. He will see through the illusions eventually, though. He is basically a sensible guy.

One of these days, he'll realize that the "enlightenment" he was seeking has been his all the time. The "breakthroughs" he's getting are just like the mechanical rabbit at the dog track. It may take him another 5 years or so, at the outside, to see it. He'll see it a lot quicker if they continue to jerk him around about he and his wife having to work in different cities.

Zzzz thinks Dahnhak may be playing games with U.S. Immigration, getting American employees to marry Korean employees. That could really blow up in their faces and give the whole organisation a black eye,- bad reputation a la Sun Myung Moon.

By Mouse on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 10:15 pm:

Anon 2:57-- Got the date or context of that post?

HealerNoMore-- I agree with the point of your post, but the way you phrased it brought up a point. It's true that we're socialized in this country to equate wealth with happiness, but I really don't want a big house (sky-high property taxes and too much cleaning!) and a fancy car (which I'll promptly wrap around a tree anyway). ;) I'd do almost anything for a happy family, though. I mention it because another big motivator for "seekers" is that they AREN'T happy with wealth or whatever they have, and are looking for it somewhere else. (With that said, though, anyone who tells me that the secret of happiness is to give all that wealth to ________ is up to something. ;P )

Just a thought.

BTW, I hope you don't think I was endorsing anything with the comment about disposable income... I was just agreeing that they target that demographic.

By fresh-ex on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 10:34 pm:

Yo clockwork, thanks for the encouragement! and to the others as well! oddly enough, after i mentioned the media, i could not access this message board for almost three days.
it was so wierd... i thought,mmmm, that's just too much. so it slowed me down, but not much..
someone wrote to fresh-OUT about being relaxed and sensitive? were you referring to fresh-ex (moi)?
i have been seeing some people from the Dahn center. but last night i was writing and just before i put my head on the pillow, i realized: i am still the only person who has REALLY left, 100 percent. i felt a little strange about that.
shed a few tears today but i am getting through it by keeping quite busy and continuing with the exercise- very important! and it used to bring back creepy memories of pretty white girls pretending they were korean(sigh), but it doesn't bother me much now. should be on-line at home by the weekend.
hopeful: its good to see you on the board. i can't imagine what its like for you. i found out recently that my business partner/best friend (ya, that's really dumb) has been ripping me off and screwing up big time. just as i was yanking myself out of dahn. it was the most trusting relationship i have ever had outside of my family so it was pretty awful. i relate somehow. it reveals so much. stay strong and keep writing.
my teachers strongly advised us to see "what the bleep" too.
i thought it was cool- but i didn't like dahn trying to claim everything as their own- movies, music, you know dancing around in your uniforms to songs from disney cartoon soundtracks. wannabees(kidding)
i am getting silly, sorry. talk soon

By Anonymous on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 10:48 pm:

Re: 2:57 message about xxxx, above. It was written Dec. 24, 2001.

By freeatlast on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 11:34 pm:

Does anyone remember someone sharing about the BRQ and where they believe Lee stole the idea from. I think someone was saying it was a device very similar to the BRQ except it had more programs and lights and was cheaper. I would really appreciate it if anyone had more info on that. Thanks!

BTW, I just got the video from DiscoveryChannel.com that was referenced here. It's a video called The Secrets of Mysterious Societies. It was really interesting. A little sensationalized with all the dramatic music, but pretty much nailed them on the head. Rick Ross was the narrator of this part of the show. I will be showing this around to anyone in Dahn who is willing to watch. I should make copies and slip them in the mail to members...hehehe, if only.

Anyway, if you have any info on the BRQ original, I would greatly appreciate it

Keep smiling (despite the very annoying HSP nonsense)

By Andrew Nevis on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 06:41 am:

There are many other devices like the BRQ, but with more fuctions. One such example can be found at www.biof.com/xcelr8r2.html This machine can be programmed from a person's own computer, its super flexible, unlike the rigid, fixed BRQ. The dahn machines origins, nothing known specifically.

I have no doubt the machines will be seen openly in the new Ilchi Center for Applied Neuroscience, corporation Arizona registered February 18th, 2005. Wonder if anyone will have a proper degree in neuroscience should Dahn have an actual physical center?

Old question how often does Lee's companies sell property to each other for $10 plus considerations? Came across one sale from February 2004, BR Research Institute of California selling land in Arizona to BR Consulting of New Jersey? Anyone with info?

Best to all ex-members

By Anonymous on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 08:13 am:

I'm not sure, but I've seen that before, and I believe that the $10 plus considerations is some kind of legalize. I don't think it really means that that's all they paid. Any lawyers here to clear that up?

By Anonymous on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 09:00 am:

I don't think he "stole" the idea from anyone. No one said that. Most inventions are built upon previous ideas, and there are many similar devices on the market. He might even hold a patent.

There are many claims made about the benefits of these devices, studies are cited, but I am wary of overblown claims in general.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 01:28 pm:

So does Dahn put voice messages into their BRQ or not? I'm not sure if we settled that question. I never used one there.

By hopeful on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 01:40 pm:

There are voices on the BRQ, it tells you to focus on different parts of brain ie brain stem, brain tem brain stem, there are flashing lights and colors, and a beeping noise that changes frequency and pitch. Its actually really cool.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 02:29 pm:

The impression I got reading here is that some people think the instructors use the BRQ to relax you and then (even if they don't put voice suggestions on it), they approach people who are ultra relaxed from it or maybe feeling rejuvenated from it to talk them into signing up for more training. Not everyone's experience is the same thing at Dahn, but is this something that some people thought happened to them?

By Mouse on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 07:38 pm:

I never encountered a talking BRQ, but they might have played recorded suggestions while we were using them. They never used it for recruiting, either... that was what "special healing sessions" in the back room were for, IME. :P I can't say I noticed any effects from BRQ training, hypnotic or otherwise. Then again, I didn't take them seriously to begin with. When I want beeps 'n flashes, I'll play Nintendo. ;)

By freeatlast on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 11:57 pm:

I have had profound results using tbe BRQ. I found that if I start feeling a little anxious it's becuase it is over stimulating the chi so if I turn down the lights and sounds, it's easier. just like many of Dahn's methods, they are very effective. It's just the intention with which they are using them that is in question. If you have one, use it! I am going to start using it with my EMDR therapist to see if it's as effective or more so than just the tapping that they do. Thanks Andrew for the info.

By hopeful on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 07:27 am:

Today on ilchiacademy.org there is a very new training called Yuueyo HSP training. The video was recently recorded at sedona center and is about 12 minutes long. Lee talks about with all the area sbn's a training of singing, basically the vowel sounds, as a way to open up and utilizing the vibration of sound to heal the internal organs. It upsets me because this really is so great a feeling I get from listening to him talk and it makes me wish I had gone to my advanced healer school. I admit when I watch him speak, (I've never seen him in person)he just looks so great to me. So clean, and bright, so charismatic. The words he uses and the pace in which he speaks, and the way he engages each person he is speaking to, it all seems so beautiful. It makes me want to jump right back into training, and maybe I can still utilize this training, it isn't entirely new, I have heard variations of it before.
Yes I still do admit deepening my practice to the myungsa level (which was my original intention)still sounds appealing to me. Even if for nothing else just to experience firsthand some of what that training is all about. It also upsets me that I'll never have the opportunity to meet Lee in person and to hear a lecture in person.
I can feel myself being blocked, and I can feel that I have too much energy in my head, but I just have no desire right now to practice anything. When I was working at the center for the month of May even despite my problems at home I would come home with such peace and clarity, and I was so understanding of what my wife was going through, so much so that she even commented on how strong I am and that I was dealing so well with such devastating news. Maybe i was in lala land, maybe I really was dealing with it the way I should. All I know now is I am dealing with hurt, anger, betrayal, sadness, grief, unhappiness, and a loss of desire to do anything. I feel like dying. On top of everything else...my wife is acting "normal" For christs sake she went out to dinner with the guy on saturday night and everyone including our therapist is telling me to be neutral and not get too crazy about it, to not fuel the fire with her. That seems pretty impossible for me when she broke her promise to me and the therapist and herself when she spoke with and saw this man. She promised for the sake of helping her come to terms with her issues she would really have to not contact him. I have always been an understanding, compassionate, loving, and affectionate husband and I am so great with our kids...anyway
I miss my dahn life.

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 07:46 am:

Hopeful; your wife sounds very self centered right now. I know how much you miss the love and support from your center. A healer friend of mine in behaving the exact same way; left her husband, two school age children who really need her. I remind her regularly "that she will come to her senses" after the newness wears off. She thinks she is in Love; when actually it is Lust and lower Chakra thinking.
Trying not to be judgmental; I also do not condone not taking care of of her children.
"Not meeting Lee is better than meeting him" You can keep the illusion.

By clockwork on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 09:30 am:

Hopeful,

Anyone in their right mind would be feeling hurt, anger, sadness, betrayal, unhappiness, and depression that is a normal/natural HUMAN response to your spouse betraying your trust, you are feeling how you should feel and things will get better, you will be stronger because of it, you will work through it and so will your wife. It must certainly be difficult, I would want to die also, but Dahn is not going to help anything in the long run, you need to get through it on your own and in your own way, there is nothing wrong with feeling like shit, most of us do at some point. Life is not all about goign around spaced out and smiling, it is not human. We must go through difficult times in life and then you become stronger, Dahn is like a drug it only numbs the pain and you will eventually have to deal with it. You seem like you are holding up okay, of course you are not going to be okay with your wife going to dinner with another man, who would! She must understand that, I think she will come around, patience! I hope you are okay! Keep writing, we are all here for you.
clockwork

By petrice on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 10:03 am:

Hopeful, I can really feel your pain and can relate in some way what you are experiencing. I found a book that was so amazingly helpful to deal with the kind of issues you are sharing. The author is Susan Anderson, an amazing teacher. I based a lot of my masters thesis on it becuase I found it to be one of the most balanced and clear descriptions of this type of pain. She offers ways to heal that get you out of your head and even a website where you can find support. Please consider checking it out: www.abandonmentrecovery.com. If you would like to email with me personally about this, you can do so at sweetpetrice@yahoo.com. This will allow for confidential dialogue if you feel you are needing it. I am a psychotherapist and massage therapist as well as a "healer" now and feel strongly called to working with adandonment grief as well as to ex dahn members who were hurt by their experience.

Just know that this pain is temporary as it is with all feelings. You have support and help if you want it. I look forward to hearing from you.

Petrice

By Anonymous on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 10:26 am:

I know I'm one of the people urging you to save your marriage if possible, but I didn't mean at all costs.

Your feelings of anger and resentment are completely valid and normal, in my opinion. You might need "something" to help get you through this, not something to numb your feelings (like Dahn seems to do), not to escape from the reality of what's happening to you (which would prevent you from growing from the experience), but to help keep you from getting too low to function. If you can take some time to look at all the options out there for healing and for helping you through this, you'll see that Dahn is not a safe option for you, and that there are plenty of other choices. You're in the frying pan right now, and Dahn is the fire.

If my spouse had an affair, I would not live under the same roof with him for one second longer. Period. (Are you reading this, my dearest? Just kidding.) I cannot imagine a therapist telling you to just be neutral (unless he meant that you should try not to lose it completely -- easy for him/her to say).

Unfortunately, the mental health field leaves much to be desired, and we have to be discerning in finding a good therapist, and do some research. It might help to do some research on the anatomy of marital demise in general too. I felt hopeful when you said you were going for counseling, and as you know I encouraged it here, but behind the scenes here, I gulped too. You have to find a good one. I'm not saying she/he isn't good, just that based on what you said here, if I understand it right, I am not impressed.

Some people have studied marital demise and found that there are typical stages. Emotion is a good sign, even anger. It's a bad sign when a spouse withdraws emotionally, has checked-out emotionally from the marriage -- which it sounds like your wife already did awhile back.

Maybe you sensed this in her and immersed yourself in Dahn to escape, or maybe your Dahn immersion kept you from seeing it happening, or maybe your immersion made her feel rejected and contributed to her withdrawal -- I don't know, but that's what a good therapist can help someone sort out.

Regardless of what happens with your marriage, you can grow by figuring out what went wrong and give it a better go with the next lovingly devoted woman in your life. She is out there; maybe she's your wife renewed or maybe she's someone else. Time will tell. Give yourself time. Do some really fun things for yourself. A mental health vacation! Can you immerse yourself in your kids? and friends? Kids can be very healing.

I used to feel jealous of friends with very harmonious and "happy" marriages, until I started seeing one after another suddenly end in divorce. That wasn't happiness I was seeing, that was emotional withdrawal.

Your intense feelings could mean that you yourself haven't checked out -- or it could be an ego thing. I've seen people go through a world of hurt over their spouse leaving when they themselves had told me they did't love this person anymore -- we are all so complicated.

A good therapist can help people sort this kind of thing out. The key word here is "good." I myself recommended therapy to you, but I worried that you might not realize that you have to be discerning about therapists too.

I hope you recognize that you don't have just two options: A. Dahn or B. unhappiness; A. Dahn or B. this therapist, etc.

Man, Dahn hooked you real good.

I hope you find the light at the end of this tunnel very soon. Sorry if this is too long and rambling.

Suziecue

By hopeful on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 10:58 am:

Thanks so much suzie and petrice. I take it all with gratitude, its funny how people come into your life...whats the expression? a season, a reason or a lifetime.
Thanks
Petrice, I may be in touch soon.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 11:11 pm:

I just got the Disney Channel video and it does seem to hit the nail on the head --with a hammer. Short but to the point. At one point Dahn's international marketing director, Don Kim, was quoted as saying something like(this might not be the exact wording): "Dahnhak is not a money-making cult, it is just business."

Suziecue

By Mouse on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 11:34 pm:

"Lee talks about with all the area sbn's a training of singing, basically the vowel sounds, as a way to open up and utilizing the vibration of sound to heal the internal organs."

Uh, last time I checked, mantras are free to the public as well. I haven't seen that video, of course, but your description makes it sound like a rip-off of both chakra theory and a simple Buddhist (?) practice. The yoga freaks at school also use sound from bells, bowls full of water, etc. etc. to meditate and alter their chakras for healing. (I don't call them freaks because they do yoga; they're just characters.) You might Google "mantras" or "voice/sound/singing therapy" and see if anything appeals to you. Just be aware of the line between "spiritual practice" and "spiritual Valium".

Sorry to hear about new developments with your wife. :/ Other posters have commented on it better than I can, so I'll just hope that you stay hopeful.

By Mouse on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 11:39 pm:

Suzie: The Disney channel is making videos on cults? How ironic is that? LOL I imagine you meant Discovery Channel, but that was too funny to pass up. ;)

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 03:26 am:

LOL! at myself.
Suziecue

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 09:50 am:

This is how I found the Dahn Center. I have been a member of a christian cult before. I am grateful that I decided to search for more information.

Dear all beautiful young people who love earth!

Dahn yoga is a Holistic energy yoga which helps you to reconnect your body and mind, utilize your brain capacity, and take an action to achieve your goal.

* NY, NJ Dahn holistic yoga center is hiring F/T, P/T positions to grow with centers, and members.
* Responsibilities are - helping to welcome members, reception, phone, cleaning, outreach through advertising and learning the practice, and the ways of dahn centers.
* Opportunities begin with 2 weeks of Training period (offer free classes everyday) - each individual will be trained at local center where positions are needed - Depending on the growth and commitment, only the right minded candidates will get opportunities to begin to grow with experience of teaching yoga classes, which includes stretching, breathing, and meditation, plus healing, Tai Chi, Counceling with members.
* Benefits are - Free membership, options for studying, training in sedona, AZ, various workshops in regional centers, and trip to korea for earthstar program exchange.
* Pays are $7.50/hr for P/T to start with, and options to expand to Full Time. Health Insurance for F/T employee will be in effect from Aug/2005.
* Each Individual will be located to different centers in NY, NJ area based on their Commute - Following centers are hiring.

Dahn Yoga Centers in NY area

flushing

136-79 Roosevelt Ave. Flushing, NY 11354
Tel. 718-762-6373

woodside

41-07 69th St. Woodside, NY 11377
Tel. 718-205-4435

great neck

45 Northern Blvd. Great Neck. NY 11020
Tel. 516-487-8406

Bronx

1805 Williams Bridge Rd. 2nd Fl. Bronx, NY 10461(Morris Park & Williams Bridge.)
Tel. 718- 892-1100

Syosset

45 Jericho Turnpike Syosset, NY 11791
Tel. 516-364-3413

East Meadow

2085 Hempstead Tpke, East Meadow, NY 11554
Tel. 516-227-0101

Scarsdale

590 Central Park Ave. Scarsdale, NY 10583
Tel. 914-713-1333

Bedford

550 N. Bedford Rd. Bedfordhills, NY 10507
Tel. 914-242-8800

Bay Ridge

8206 3rd Ave. Brooklyn, NY 11209
Tel. 718-765-0099

Dahn Yoga Centers in NJ area

Ridgefield

529 Bergen Blvd. 2nd FL. Ridgefield,
NJ 07657
Tel. 201-941-8622

Wycoff

525 Cedar Hill Ave. 2nd Fl. Wycoff, NJ 07481
Tel. 201-444-6020

West Orange

649 Eagle Rock Avenue,
West Orange, NJ 07052
Tel. 973-731-1550

By clockwork on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 10:09 am:

OH MY GOODNESS, THAT IS SCARY

By fresh-ex on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 12:06 pm:

Hopeful- stay strong! your "wife" has no business having dinner with another man- when did that kind of crap become acceptable? get another therapist, though alot of them just seem to want to want your money and will just let you talk into an empty room as long as you pay, pay pay.. it sounds to me like a situation that could be ongoing and highly profitable for your therapist. i don't know your situation, but reaching out to your immediate family might help. mom, dad, sister??
what you are going through is double- edged devastation- reach out, but not to dahn.
that's why people go back, because they leave, then see how they have drifted from their friends and family,and the damage that's been done, so they go back to dahn. you can blame dahn for your life being the way it is. it will never be like it was, but you can move on from dahn. or this will keep happening.i am trying to help you get through this, so please don't forget why you cancelled that cheque!!!

By Mouse on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 02:22 pm:

They're advertising for employment here too. It got a laugh out of me, both because of the clumsy grammar (job postings are generally more professional, no?), and because they're advertising it as yoga. Mastery of yoga or anything like it takes YEARS. They expect people to learn it well enough to teach it in weeks? Gimme a break.

...Come to think of it, I wonder if they're targeting the young and desperate again. I would have worked for $7.50 when I was 16, and I wouldn't have known any better about yoga or other such practices, either. The tactic probably won't work well here--people in this school are relatively educated about spiritual practices, and TAing pays better anyway--but I sure hope they're not posting those in high schools or job fairs!

Of course, hiring people outright is a double-edged sword for them; employees' rights are much more clearly defined than those of volunteers. OSHA, EEOC, L&I, etc. don't look kindly upon unpaid labor, broken contracts, or any of the other horror stories we've heard here.

By Mouse on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 02:24 pm:

By Mouse on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 02:26 pm:

D'oh.

By Stillahealer on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 02:57 pm:

It could also be a ploy to bring more people here from Korea. After 911 it became more difficult for visas to be issued.

I believe if they can prove they can not hire enough Americans they may be able to get around immigration. Staffing the centers due to uncontrolled growth must be a problem. Keeping any kind of quality control will also suffer. They want to be known like MacDonalds or Starbucks. Don't think so.

By Mouse on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 12:27 am:

LOL If you mean setting up a box with a Dahnworld logo on every city block, I get your drift. But if they're trying to be a McFranchise and sell to everyone on earth, they're going about it pretty back-asswards. McDonald's et al work because they can get a little bit of everyone's money; Dahn operates by getting a lot of money from a few. (Lord, I hope I'm not actually dispensing business advice!)

As for quality control, we can see from the variety of posts here that the product isn't the same at every center. Part of that's just differences between people, but part of it seems to be policy differences as well. (I used to work in fast food as well as do the "holistic yoga" thing, so the comparison is darkly amusing to me. ;)

By Stillahealer on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 05:47 am:

Mouse; like you style of thinking. On further relfection the quality control I was referring to is the ability to focus on the members with such love and attention and drain their last dollar. Then again if the masters do not have all the other duties of running the center; they may get even better at marketing to their target market. What a thought?

Did you catch "outreach through advertising" on the job posting? I believe that means delivering flyers to residences and businesses. How long do you think the unenlightened will do that?

LOL

By HealerNoMore on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 11:06 am:

There are several companies I have dealt with in regards to handing out flyers. They seem to pay between 7 and 10 dollars per hour to workers. The masters never liked this because outsiders could not be trusted to do the job and the flyers were thrown away. There are many ways to advertise but the handouts by members always had the best results due to the energy given to the task. The members always gave energy and meditated before doing flyers. The outsiders don't do this.

Did you ever have a flyer folding party? I don't know if was to save money or not, but whenever we had flyers printed we always had to fold them ourselves. They would not let the printers do this. I secretly think it was to control more of our time and keep us at the center longer.

By Mouse on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 01:23 am:

Heh. Now that I think of it, I remember people sitting for what seemed like hours, cutting double-printed sheets of paper in half to distribute... and it was the "in" students who would do it. I remember wondering why they didn't just invest in a paper cutter.

StillaHealer--
Outreach and Advertising: A fun and challenging career in pissing off every merchant, pedestrian, and cop in a five-mile radius of the center. See the world, with exclusive inside views of schools, pet shops, bulletin boards, cheap restaurants, gym locker rooms, and more! Promising candidates will excel at smiling vacantly, showering affection on random strangers, and having the stamina to perform consecutive rounds of drop-the-stack-and-run flyer distribution. Lucrative bonuses offered for those who can regularly outrun mall security.
....Sorry, hope I'm not offending anyone. I'm making fun of the job, not the people who do/did it. ;) Let's just say that it doesn't sound like much fun to me.

Regarding quality control... you're thinking of the quality of the (using the term loosely) employees' training? It's a good point; wonder if they've thought about that yet, with the emphasis on growth and all. A master who's been at it for 10 years is going to be much better at it than a 2-year master (...unless the elder one has burnt out or had a psychotic break). But if the *rate* of organization growth is increasing, there will be (are?) many more inexperienced Masters than experienced ones, and so the level of experience/dedication among the hierarchy is going to go down. Someone said that the goal for 2005 is to open 360 more centers; what were the goals for preceding years? Anyone know?

By in on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 04:23 am:

The goal was pretty much the same for 2004 and 3. Previous Ideas were also to open up smaller healer centers national wide. The starbuck concept was also tossed around.
There is a 10 year goal and it is a big one. Lee said devote 10 years and we will (I don't remember)
ohh and the world was to end in 25years and that was in 2000. so we must save it. So that means there is 20 years left. BUt since i am not around I am asuming they use the same 25# in current lectures.
***

By Stillahealer on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 06:33 am:

More fun with the numbers.
The pedal has been put to the metal in a big way. To the best of my memory, there were approx. 50 centers in the U.S. in the 2003 004 time period. With 360 projected for 2005 2006 that is substantial and IMO difficult to achieve for any organization.
And "IN" I used to hear 2012 as the magic number for world enlightenment. After which the Masters would take vacations and spend time with their families. In the meantime there was no time for sleep or other distractions.

I also either read or heard about the 36000 centers worldwide like MacDonalds concept.

Never did fold the flyers; did however insert them individually in a ziplock with a small rock to prevent them from getting wet or windblown from lawns.
It felt very invasive to me walking to peoples doorsteps. We were told we were bringing Chunjikuin to each household.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 08:40 pm:

I'd really like to know more about Ilchi Lee's background. Does anyone know:

Where did he grow up?
What did he do as a child?
Where did he meet his wife?
What is his wife like? Has anybody met her?
How well did he do at school?
Who knew him before he became enlightened?
Has he ripped off and copied anyone else's work? (other than the one that I read about involving Alison Bourne in the UK)?
If so, who are
they?
How did they feel about this and have they taken any legal action?
What does he eat?
What does he do in his spare time?
How "enlightened" is he really?

Thanks! And my best to all of you great people here.

By in on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 10:06 pm:

It�s all about Lee (re: lee background- just some observations and experiences)
1. Spare Time. I've seen him (lee) ride horses, but escorted by 3 master dressed in black. They even help him off the horse and open his door. He is an excellent rider.
2. Wife: I shook the wife�s hand. She had smiles. Note: He has a son who is pursuing law school.
3. Grew up: I believe he grew up in Korea.

I heard his marriage was real at one time but now it is a business front. It looks good in business. She is owner of the CGI center in Closter NJ and a small healing center. Also I heard he purposely-gained weight so he could be respected more in this culture.
4. He openly admits he borrows things and puts it into the dahn program. Also there was this mix up with Hawkins in Korea over the first book. . Who knows it�s all about getting his name around town. .
5. I heard he wasn't a grade A student also I heard from a speaking Korean that he doesn't speak intelligent.
The bottom line he must be doing something right to build this empire. One master put it( He has big energy to be able to pull together such a group)

Off the subject the # 10 years meant 2012. So in 2002 this was word repeated. Just devote 10 years. Hymm are they devoting time for lee's Lee retirement.
***

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 05:23 am:

why would gaining weight make him more respected in this culture??

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 05:57 am:

that is what lee said

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 08:41 am:

"In," please tell us your experience with Dahn. Sounds like you were deeply involved. What happened? So many people love Dahn.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 08:42 am:

"He has big energy to be able to pull together such a group)"

Hitler pulled together a large group too. Not that Lee compares to Hitler, but just that the reasoning is way off.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 10:31 am:

My wife was involved in Dahn Yoga in Ahwatukee Arizona and I am so happy that she has now quit. For months I was skeptical and kept telling her that it sounded like a cult. Finally they tried to rope her into months of training (for big bucks) that would have seriously dented our relationship. Dahn is a cult. Stay away.

By Stillahealer on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 10:35 am:

According to his own account in The Way to Light Up Your Divinity p 110, Lee has two children was a Third Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do and owned a gym at one time. He was probably in his thirties when he stopped going out with his friends drinking and went instead to the mountain to meditate and eventually found enlightenment.

I am not sure as to why I think this but I was under the impression that his wife who runs CGI is his second wife.

The impression given by the masters is that he does not spend any time on anything that is not Dahn related.

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 12:35 pm:

I remember one of lee's bodyguards with a long ponytail. I wonder what happened to him? I was told that this ponytailed bodyguard was a martial arts expert and carried a short sword up his sleeve on his forearm. I was told by a master that lee has many threats against him and the bodyguards will give their lives to protect him. I was also told that being his bodyguard is very difficult as lee hardly ever sleeps more than three hours per night and is always on the go.

Lee's wife drives a Mercedes and has a set of golf clubs in the trunk. I wonder if this is related to dahn training?

Yes. He is the only one who is capable of making such a large business empire. Bill Gates and others must have relied on dumb luck. It started in a park with one student you know. I guess he learned early that enlightenment starts in the wallet of members.

If they succeed with their plan to bring in outside members it will hurt their business. The business will eventually become more westernized and readily available to the general public. I predict there will be many off shoot schools teaching similar techniques. He has no rights to any exercises. Who pays royalties to the founders of Yoga or martial arts? Did he invent breathing and stretching? I can teach anything he has, but I will have to rename it. I believe he owns the names only.

Most of their music comes from the group "Sweet People" the album name is "A Wonderful Day". It is from a Frech group. It is released by Polygram and distributed by Sung Eum Limited. I am not sure if this is a dahn company. The music they start every class with is never allowed to be given to members for any reason. I have my own copy. It is an import.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 04:23 pm:

"Lee's wife drives a Mercedes and has a set of golf clubs in the trunk. I wonder if this is related to dahn training?"

In 2000, Seung Heun Lee registered the tradename "Dahn in Golf," used on trade since 1998. I guess they teach Dahn to golfers -- who are generally people with money.

There was a recent case on the kind of thing you're talking about, HealerNoMore, but involving Bikram's "Hot Yoga." Bikram went sue-crazy against yoga businesses that used hot rooms. But some studios got together in SF and struck back with their own lawsuit against him, saying you can't patent/copyright ancient exercises. He settled for the yoga studios not using his name without his permission -- big concession. He wanted them to have to pay for his training programs and licensing in order to turn up the thermostat in their studios.

I found just one article on the Internet that talks about generic "Danhak." It is described as as the basis for "Kouk Sun-do" (sound familiar? "Sun-do" was mentioned above as maybe what one Colorado Dahn Center broke away from Dahn to teach.) The article is archived here, which means it could disappear soon: http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:9Fn1yTZtJlkJ:soback.kornet.net/~jendori/English/intro28.htm+danhak+sun-do&hl=en&start=1

I looked up Sung Eum Limited and I don't see any Dahn connection. Maybe Dahn bought sole rights to the music.

Stillahealer said: "The impression given by the masters is that he does not spend any time on anything that is not Dahn related."

They may not know or care to talk about Lee's, um...er...extracurricular activities. I don't think he was arrested in 1993 (see article translated above) for lusciviousness for no reason.

Suziecue

By IN on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 05:29 pm:

"In," please tell us your experience with Dahn. Sounds like you were deeply involved. What happened? So many people love Dahn
I don't understand this comment or question because of the last sentence. I was deeply involved before most members experienced the contrast. It was before the healer school days. Healer school put most deeper. I left and most people didn't understand. New Human School was the start for members to get deep. I was all alone a long time ago wondering what happened. Always doubting my decision to move on and fearing if my spiritual growth has stopped. It has been a long road. I guess we are in the BR stage now. Now I see most of us on this board has experience some of or exactly what I did. I feel my decision was right. They have a lot of mistakes to clean up before they can step up. Most Americans will try to fix them when they get deeper in. But when your deeper in your just in. A player amongst a spiritual sports league. All-star masters and minors who were once members. The hierarchy is tough to change. One will look bad if they oppose the captain. You will lose your "Credit" Credit is a key word when your on board. Charector is what there watching. When you oppose all high masters, they will repeat the same sentences. They are coached to deal with you by someone with more experience.
***

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 06:19 pm:

"I don't understand this comment or question because of the last sentence."

Sorry for the poor choice of wording, "In, I just wanted to know what happened to you personally that made you turn off on Dahn.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 06:20 pm:

...and let me add -- Thanks! for your post, "In."

By Stillahealer on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 06:46 pm:

"One Day I was looking through some books in an old book store. I picked up a book and opened a page and there it was written "Those who attained enlightenment through Dahnhak are unrivalled in the world"
I felt like I had been electrified by a million volt. I experienced Ki, something similar to the one I felt when I was in second grade"

More from The Way to Light Up your Divinity. p 112. by Seung Heun Lee

So he did not invent DahnHak or the word itself. Did you ever notice how they try to trademark the infinity sign also?

By fresh-ex on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 06:57 pm:

back to tuesday- Anon and Hopeful. so there are voices on the BR-Q?? i guess i wasn't completely wrong. like i said, my memory got pretty spotty over the months i was there. creepy. i am remembering more and more since leaving dahn, and sometimes it is pretty spooky.

what i don't get in all this reading is why people,with all this information before them, are still lamenting the loss of dahn?? i am devastated by the whole thing- the loss of trust and thinking we are really doing something to help the earth and all that, but i DON'T MISS DAHN. i feel very lucky that i got out when i did!!!
its natural to feel "blocked" when you quit exercising cold turkey. i read on one of rick ross's pages that its really important to continue on your path, work out at home or find a new class right away. exercise is the greatest antidepressant out there, and it is really easy to crash while going through something like this. i did, but not for long. i'm awfully stubborn though...
i stopped associating everything with emotional memory(yay, more dahn training!) and looked at things as factual. like i payed 25 dollars for that yoga mat, and it doesn't have to remind me of anything or anyone. the mat has no emotion. i do the exercises because they are good for me and i deprogram myself a little more EVERY time i do them on my own, because i show myself that i CAN do it on my own, and the hurt does fade away, like everything.
meditation is the only thing i haven't tackled yet. i get chicken! totally freaked out/working on it. any advice on that would be appreciated.
on media: if you see dahn advertised in holistic/yoga publications, i suggest you call them and ask them to drop the ad. most magazines want to know, and are vigilante about not supporting cults.
one thing i noticed is that with some people, you say the "c" word, they think you are crazy...

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 11:15 pm:

Some people still looking for a way to exercise should look into body weight calisthenics. I found a really good website filled with lots of information. This man also gets into chi energy exercises as he is an American who has been training in China. The exercises work and you don't have to worry about any cult activity. The products seem a bit pricey but they seem to work well. One interesting thing about the exercises is that they are all old time exercises that have been around for a long time and there have been many books written about them as well. See lee did not invent everything.

www.mattfurey.com

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 11:16 pm:

Suziecue,

Where is the article this refers to?

"They may not know or care to talk about Lee's, um...er...extracurricular activities. I don't think he was arrested in 1993 (see article translated above) for lusciviousness for no reason."

By HealerNoMore on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 11:22 pm:

I found this site which is very interesting. It is a site which tells you about all of the secrets of scientology. I post this because there is section on handing out flyers which alert the public to the dangers of scientology. Maybe there is useful information on how to combat dahnhak.

www.xenu.net also known as Operation Clambake

By Anonymous on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 01:49 am:

Here it is:

(Hankuk-Ilbo)Korean Newspaper

ILLEGAL PRODUCTION OF HEALTH SUPPLEMENTARY FOOD CHIEF OF UNLICENCED DAHNHAK ARRESTED

Prosecutor Jun-Mo Park at Specialty Department of Eastern Branch at Seoul Police arrested 3 persons including Seung-Heon Lee(301 Family Apt, MoonJung-dong Songpa-gu, Seoul), the chief of Dahn-hak-Seon-Won, as the prosecution of the breach of health crime regulation & education law. They are also accused of performance lasciviousness.

According to the prosecutory authorities, they set up Dahn-hak-Seon-Won at 2-165, Poi-dong, Gangnam-gu, Seoul since May 1990, manufacturing Chonwha bamboo salt?and Jung-chung-dahn which is the mixture of licorice root and ginger powder without any food production licence. They are suspected of manufacturing 3,900 bottles, and having unjust profiting from selling these kinds of health supplementary food through Dahn branches all over the country.

By Anonymous on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 02:50 am:

Has anyone had any luck getting a refund from the Dahn Center after you've been in for a bit? I just started a month ago and had the same feelings you guys did about it!

Thanks

By Anonymous on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 06:03 am:

IMO if they know you are aware of this site and others; they will refund your money instantly. They will not want you at the center sharing this information with others.
A phone call may be all that is needed.
Let us know here.

By NoMoreLies on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 12:22 pm:

In, HealerNoMore, Stillahealer,Fresh-Ex, Mouse,Clockwork,Laila, Petrice,Hopeful, Anony(1-zillion),Andrew, and everyone else who has posted.

Your insights, questions, answers and honest sharing are helping so many.

I have witnessed within the last 3 months,
6 healers(including myself)resign from the Dahn Organiz.

Many reasons---most reasons disclosed and outlined on this site...thank you for helping us to transition "out".

Please keep sharing,

NML

By HealerNoMore on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 02:24 pm:

Thanks for posting that news story.

You can get your money back if no more than three days have passed since you signed the contract. I have advised one former new member to get money back by threatening to go to the attorney general of the state, the better business bureau, and the news media and claiming he was mislead. It worked without question. Bring dahn literature with you to authorities and let them know that you were mislead and what you signed up for is not listed in the brochures, (i.e. worshipping lee, being a slave to dahn, being broke, broken family, loss of friends, loss of hobbies, loss of life, joining a new religion, etc.)

The key to success is to follow through and don't be shy about it. The dahn center is counting on you not going through with any complaints to authorities. They will try to talk you out of it the way they talk you out of your money. Be Strong.

By fresh-ex on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 05:22 pm:

NML- thankyou for that note. i wish i could do more! others on this site have alot more info of which i need so much, but i tend to deal with other stuff surrounding this. i want to encourage ANYONE that is reading this board to leave dahn. no matter how deep you think you are- you can get out. i truly believe that they brainwash and condition people and the longer you stay, the more programmed you get. even if you are a jiwonjangnim, you can leave. i wish soooo much that the women at my center could be reached. they are beautiful young women that are giving the best years of their lives away. it breaks my heart and i can't help but shed tears for them. what can we do?? this seems like a really bad dream that i can't wake up from.
actually, did i ever write about a dream that i had five years ago? my teacher always said i had special dreams and to tell her all of them, especially dahn dreams

By IN on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 06:10 pm:

Speaking of dreams after I left I had so many dahn dreams and they were vivid. It went on for for more than 2 years. Lately not so many but. I spent a couple years in Korea and about 4 in USA so I had a lot of time with them. The dreams were not bad they were just events, doing things and such. Interesting
***

By Stillahealer on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 08:07 pm:

Last week I dreamed about my old Jiwanjin (Headmaster). He was walking into a Korean grocery store in the area. He had gained a lot of weight; only wanted to use the bathroom. When he saw me at first he wanted to communicate in a human way; like How are You? Nice to see you? Then he caught himself and withdrew and would not speak to me at all.

O.K. where are the shrinks tonight?

By fresh-ex on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 03:44 am:

i had many many dreams about my teachers being in my room, waking me up to do more training. or i would wake up snapping into a prayer position. it was really scary.
but i found an old dream journal mixed with notes and drawings just before i quit. i just noticed the page dated january 25, 2000 (i was about to throw it out!). the dream started out with another subject, then halfway down the page it says, "dreamt i was in some sort of spiritual revolutionary group", also "intellectual and light led to cultish and strict". the dream describes sedona, taking the bus, everything. its nearly two pages long.
i'm doing a painting about the last dream i had about dahn. if i wasn't painting i'd probably be seeing a specialist (therapist)about all this... can we share more about dreams?
i am having alot of problems sleeping these days by the way.

By clockwork on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 04:29 am:

No More Lies, thank you so much for your praise, it makes me very happy to see that we have all made some type of a difference, that is what I wish for most. You all have been so supportive to me also, I want to do all that I can! Thank you all so much.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 09:10 am:

FYI - Interpretation of Dreams "google" Dream Moods

By fresh-ex on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 09:21 pm:

thanks for the FYI, i am checking it out.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 10:01 pm:

Check this out!! A new report posted at Rick Ross's site. http://www.rickross.com/reference/dti/dti43.html

Food spiked with marijuana?! I wonder who the "doctor" was who treated this woman.

A must read.

Suziecue

By HealerNoMore on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 11:09 pm:

I remember a Doctor Jennifer who used to be there. She wore a masters uniform but she left for some unknown reason. I asked and was told several different excuses for her departure. My best guess was that she was not being paid enough to give up her practice to work for next to nothing.

By fresh-ex on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 11:42 pm:

suziecue, i just read the pot link and its outrageous! how are they getting away with this?? i thought the laws surrounding pot in the states were much more strict than in canada, but if that happened here, charges would be layed. i mean, she's got EVIDENCE, doesn't she? i really don't understand why this has been going on for so long without being shut down.
how many other people are out there that were so traumatized from being involved with dahn that they just disappeared?

By fresh-ex on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 11:49 pm:

stillahealer- i dreamt last night that my room was crammed with people all dressed in white, but i can't remember anything else about it. its the really vivid dreams that i tend to write down. one time i dreamt that my junior instructor was (once again) ordering me out of bed to do more training. there was a circle of spirits in the room and i could barely see them, as pools of liquid, but definitely sense them there. they could see us, and were waiting.

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 06:37 am:

Fresh ex
One of the reasons they are getting away with it is those of us who know the truth are in hiding. Even the recent movie did not show the couple who shared their story.
The Dahn organization is opening centers left and right; filling up Healer School both sessions at this very moment which includes approx. 100 in each class. 200 X $10K three times a year; you do the math. This is in addition to Healing Sessions, Weekend Workshops, Chakra Training and of course life time memberships.
They are getting to people before they come here. And they attract people who when being taken advantage off just walk away and chalk it up to experience.
We need Oprah but she is off for the Summer.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 07:09 am:

"they attract people who when being taken advantage off just walk away and chalk it up to experience."

This is exactly why I jump on the "let's not be negative" attitude.

By hopeful on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 07:27 am:

I do not know if i can completely believe the pot story...........however, I remember when I was in healer school, we were all sitting eating dinner, and we just all started laughing HYSTERICALLY. I remember laughing so hard. We were all laughing and then laughing even harder because there was absolutely no "reason" for us all to be laughing. It was great, I assumed it was the whole"sedona thing" you know, like the highs and lows one could experience being there. So, as I read the pot story I immediately thought of this experience. If it is true that could've really screwed up my life if I was tested after healer school (my job has random drug testing). Hey look, I know we have all laughed in our lives for no reason many times without being on drugs, but, it was worth noting this experience.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 07:50 am:

I do wish the person on Rick Ross would have addressed if she had taken or eaten anything else that tends to test positive for marijuana. Otherwise that test, alone, doesn't tell us anything conclusive.

I think that the sleepy, droopy eyed look gives pot-smokers (or THC eaters) away, but if you're not suspecting pot use, then it can be missed or mistaken for a peaceful look.

The main point, besides that, of the woman's story is that she felt unusually dizzy, had a sudden rise in blood pressure while on hypertension medication, and Dahn's "doctor" had her nearly overdose on her own pills.

Who is this "doctor?" I'd like to know where this doctor got his or her degree? Ilchi Lee calls himself Dr. also.

By Stillahealer on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 08:05 am:

Two middle aged men in my class became very ill as well. One was on high blood pressure medicine, I belive the other on some heart medication. Their illness was explained by the strong vortex energy in Sedona as well as the high altitude.
This would be difficult to prove unless the place was raided and found it grown there.
Personally I did not trust some of the permanent kitchen help there. I found one of them starring at me while I was getting my drink one day. I felt very uncomfortable.

By Mouse on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 08:59 pm:

... [shocked silence]

I hope the author of that article contacted the police and/or district attorney's office. Not necessarily about the poisoning, but for impersonation of a medical professional (if the "doctor" did in fact refer to himself as such), prescribing without a license, failing to seek help in a medical EMERGENCY, and anything else they can throw at 'em. (Anyone who knows how to use a blood pressure cuff should also know that if the patient's BP spikes over 180, it's time to call 911. Headache and dizziness are signs of abnormal BP.)

I Googled a bit to see if there are any prescription or OTC drugs that can cause a false positive marijuana test, and... well... there's a lot. I coldn't find any sources that seemed professional, but if you look at the pass-your-drug-test.com kind of articles, they all agreed about:

Dronabinol (Marinol)
Ibuprofen (Advil, Nuprin, Motrin, Excedrin IB etc)
Ketoprofen (Orudis KT)
Naproxen (Aleve)
Promethazine (Phenergan, Promethegan)
Riboflavin (B2, Hempseed Oil)

If the informant thought she was having a migraine, she may have taken a large dose of one of those, which may have shown up on her drug test. Unfortunately, I don't know how old or accurate the information is, and the drug test may have improved since they wrote it. Who knows. But even if there's a reasonable doubt for the pot hypothesis, the "medical care" she received was incompetent--criminally so, IMHO.

By Mouse on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 09:11 pm:

I'm tempted to continue ranting, but I'll hold it for the moment... What IS the altitude in Sedona?

Regarding dreams. Some operation called "Elite Martial Arts" just opened up in a storefront down the street from school. I'm curious, but I haven't been inside.. the name bugs me. The other night I dreamed that I walked in there and was looking around, when I turned around and saw the Dahn logo on the wall. I was just thinking "oh HELL no" when the headmaster came out to say hello. I said goodbye, and a few other things besides (wish I could remember what), and walked out. Other than that, no Dahn dreams for some time. ...But now I'm kinda scared to go check out the martial arts place.

As for professionals who should know better, there was a chiropractor-turned-master at my center. She was the one who tried to get me all excited about the scientific basis of BR. It kinda fell flat; I looked at the data chart she gave me, looked at her, and asked her why the data showed me exactly the opposite of what they were trying to prove. She hesitated, said something about an error at the printer, smiled, and took off.

Come to think of it, that was the last real conversation I had with her.

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 04:28 am:

4500' Sedona Altitute

By Anonymous on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:17 am:

I think the article said that the "doctor" in Sedona told the member to take more of her own medication, so technically (but I'm not a lawyer) I think the doctor didn't "prescribe" the medication. I too hope this person is pursuing a complaint to her Attorney General, at least.

By fresh-ex on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 06:16 pm:

Mouse... good research on the pot situation! and your right- the whole scene was disgraceful.
StillAHealer- why do you think the kitchen worker was staring at you? have you been down to sedona more than once? what was the food like? i am very curious to know- my teacher said i would love the food, that its gourmet vegetarian, but alot of people came home and said it was rice and beans. i am wondering if people felt it was adequate for the amount of physical activity being done. every workshop i did we were fueled by store-bought cookies, sugary juice, miniature doughnuts (yuck!) and a little fruit. then on the last day we would get our "special" meal- at shim sung it was served on silver platters, the next one was catered by the cafe next door, the last one was prepared by their latest sabumnim, and it all cost the same.
sometimes when our yeha group was staying way way too late at the center, we would be offered chips. as people stared at the doritos, then looked at the teachers, they would tell us not to have any "preconceptions" about the food. its like they teach us to take care of our bodies, then contradict everything. like, take care of the earth with your mind, but drive a hummer, and don't "think" about it too much...
its been almost a month since i quit and its been very difficult. i have been very depressed, and very uncomfortable around people. its like i don't trust my own behavior. one thing i had to deprogram was telling all my personal stuff all the time. we would be praised for this at dahn, but its not appropriate in the real world and makes others uncomfortable. it doesn't feel good when you lose trust, even with yourself.
i think i am very angry

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 06:53 pm:

When I was at shim sung we were told to bring a packed lunch. They didn't give out any food. Only water. The "staff" however had these catered platters. So, when we sat around in our groups eating lunch, we were eating our dried out sandwiches and stuff, while the staff member assigned to each group tucked into nice deli stuff. It was weird.

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 06:57 pm:

Tea of course. They served tea to us. Heh! maybe it's the tea that's spiked with something that reads positive for pot. Or maybe they use processed pot. You know that medical maijuana is available in tablet form, right?
I think so anyway. Will check,

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 07:02 pm:

Sorry. This is still in development stage (my husband is in the industry, so I asked him) Sorry to have misled you all.

By Stillahealer on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 08:49 pm:

I was in Sedona five times. Only the last time at Myungas training did I feel the discomfor with the kitchen staff especially one in particular. He has been threre the whole time: a lay worker of Hispanic origin.
I was pouring Lemonade from a plastic container; seems like I had opened it incorrectly and broke off a piece. I placed the broken off piece on the table. When I looked around this kitchen helper was starring at me in a very judgmental way. Perhaps it was my own insecurity of doing something wrong that prevoked my feeling.
It was like he was saying" I saw you do something wrong; and you and I both know that that is"
Perhaps one of those life lessons that the Dahn experience presents to us.

By HealerNoMore on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:26 pm:

I have been to Sedona at least 8 times. I have never had a problem with the food itself. I only have a problem when they train so long there is no time to eat. Sometimes there was not enough food left for everybody and I was hungry for the evening. I have never had any problems with any of the hired help, they have always been friendly, I never treated any of them like strangers.

I used to make the tea at the centers. It was made with seven or eight different ingrediants. It was all natural seeds and dried figs(I think).
Sometimes we put all natural pieces of ginger or roots into it. The ingrediants can be purchased at any Korean or Asian market. Roasted corn tea was always a favorite.

The masters always had junk food hidden from the members. It was for their own consumption. They drink soda, beer, wine, etc.

"Preconceptions". I have not heard that word in a while. We should compile a dahn dictionary.

Fresh-ex. Please don't doubt yourself. As you are out of dahn longer, it will get easier to forgive yourself. You did not do anything wrong. You were mislead as much as the rest of us. Some of us have been in longer and spent more money in our self imposed dahn prisons. It is okay to be yourself. Try to do activities you enjoy and keep moving forward away from dahn. It gets easier everyday. We are with you on this healing journey. Keep visiting this and other dahn information boards and learn more about how they manipulated you. Educate yourself and grow. I wish you luck.

By Anonymous on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 02:13 am:

I am so disappointed to see that that is all Rick Ross has after all this time regarding Dahn. There is so much going on that would be much more useful to his endeavor to expose Dahn for what they are. An article from someone suspicious of being drugged is just sad. I have been there numerous times and am certain they aren't drugging people. Do NOT underestimate the power of altitude sickness, especially when combined with the intense vortex energy, heat and lack of humidity. I'm not saying it was right for the "doctor" to advise the person to overdose on meds, but spiking our food with marijuana, come on. Did they ever consider having a retest on the marijuana? Labs screw up all the time. Anyway, no offense to you all, but there are so many more legitimate concenrns that we have about Dahns unethical acts, this seems to be a petty waste of time. It has been documented over and over again that the glazed over peacefulness that we often see in Dahn members is a result of cult tactics.

By clockwork on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 04:38 am:

It is not okay to drug someone without their knowing, that most certainly is a big deal! People are on medications that possibly have effects when put with other drugs, me for example. I think this is most certainly a big big deal, also marijuana is Illegal rememeber! Give us some examples of what is more important then, what do you consider NOT a waste of time?

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 06:48 am:

To reiterate all that has been said on this topic, although I think we should move on: drugging someone's food or however it may have been done - if it was done- is a big deal, obviously.

However, for me the biggest deal about all this, and which is undeniable, is the way Dahn handled it. It fits a pattern. Joanne Siveris death being the most extreme example. When a member is ill while in their programs, their reactions are totally inappropriate, as well as totally contradictory to their so-called reason for existing in the first place: ie. their 'healing' philosophy!!

Their reaction is to treat it as a 'nuisance' when someone is ill and to engage in damage control. They don't act out of concern about the individual. Speaking as a nurse of many years, their handling of the situation is totally 'unprofessional', a total screw-up on every level. From reading that article I can't believe the 'doctor' on the scene is an actual medically trained licenced physician. Their first act should have been to diall 911 and get her to an emergency room asap. Telling her to take more anti-hypertensive pills is outrageous!!! Sending her off in a taxi to the airport accompanied only by the ... cab driver??!! Aaaaaghh! My nerves are jangling. I have to stop.

They really should be shut down. They claim all this 'medical' knowledge. But they haven't got a clue. We must all be so dumb to have fallen for their crap. When I think I put myself in the hands of brainwashed zombies whose only 'training' is from Ilchi Lee's program, I shudder at my gullibility.

By hopeful on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 06:56 am:

I have to say, what I am feeling, I am not sure if it is primarily from my wife not being sure if she wants to stay married or because I really miss dahn. It is probably a combo of both. I know it makes most of you sick that I love it so much but truth is I do. I love my wife, by the way, I forget who referred me I think it was Petrice, thanks for the website and book idea on abandonment, it is really helping and putting my feelings in perspective. My wife told me yesterday to my surprise that she wants me to go back to the center because she could see it makes me happy, if only just for regular class a few times a week. The leave of absence I took from ym job is almost up and i will be back to work, my wife told me the idea of seeing me get dressed for my job seems phoney to her, she really says she feels that my place is at the center. I cant help but feel that by my being there it would be easier for her to leave me. I am so confused. I have no idea what to do, say, feel, how to behave. I am told to act one way but if I do I feel I am not being real with myself..blablabla. The pain I feel in my chest is constant, and if it werent for my boys I feel I would have no reason to live. In fact, and this isn't a cry for help or anything, but I feel like I am dying, I want to die. I feel like if I dies right now then it would be good that my wife have to deal with that for the rest of her life. I cant sleep at night because of the pain in my chest. I am not certain of anything nor am I able to tell if my wife is true, our therapist, dahn, my feelings, her feelings, I have nothing. Nothing. Nothing seems real to me anymore.

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 07:09 am:

Hopeful.
don't do it. Your wife is feeling guilty and knows how Dahn made you feel good. So If you go back she then would have an easier time leaving you! Sorry to be so blunt, but surely you see Dahn is a scam? They would welcome you back all smiles and loads of attention, you'd feel like 'you've come home'. But you would end up in a much worse place.
It hurts like hell now, but Dahn is only a drug to ease symptoms, it's not a cure. Stay strong, for your kids. Don't be fooled by them.
Love

By Say no to the cult on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 07:10 am:

Even if you leave the cult, as long as you carry them around with you in your heart it is like you never left. They are draining your energy and happiness from a distance. That is what sorcerors do, and why Dahn (and Falungong, and Reiki, and "Healing Tao" etc.) is in the business they are in in the first place. They still have a contract on your soul, and you need to tear it up. They cannot legitimately enforce it, no one has a right to own you. They can only use it to steal your joy if you let them. In prayer, you have to affirm that you've rejected them and ask for God's help to finally do so. If you are Christian, ask for Jesus or Mary to help you. If you are Buddhist, ask for Gautama Buddha, Amitabha Buddha or Kuan yin to help you, etc.

By Anonymous on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 10:21 am:

I'm not saying that drugging someone is ok or that it is not a big deal. I AM QUESTIONING WHETHER IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Clockwork, if you read my entry, that was my question. Please read it again. Dahn is VERY DOUBTFULLY drugging people at Mago. Seriously people. YOu have got to be kidding me if you thing that is really happening.
My point is that it is a waste of energy to focus on this when the real issue is that Dahn is a non-integrous spiritual organization that is operating under numerous false pretenses. People are joining everyday, feeding the kitty of Lee's empire. THIS IS THE ISSUE! These petty claims are what make the ex Dahn people look ignorant. When you have a person with High BP already going to the hot dry dessert at altitude with vortex energy, it is not surprising that he might get pretty sick. To blame it on being drugged just sounds paranoid and silly. AGAIN....LABS HAVE BEEN WRONG ON MANY OCCASIONS> I worked in healthcare for 10 yrs and saw it happen over and over.

MY POINT WAS----Let's get back to the real issues here.

When people start going on about having a laughing fit and how maybe that was drug induced and then someone starts targeting the Mexican kitchen staff and relating that to Marijuana, JESUS CHRIST! OK, let's bring racism into this now to make this website lose even more credibility.

***IF there is a Mexican working in the kitchen, then OF COURSE, they smoke pot, and then WELL! That makes sense that they are putting marijuana in the food.

CAN YOU SEE HOW STUPID THIS ALL LOOKS? SERIOUSLY FOLKS. HAVE YOU ACTUALLY READ WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

Sorry, but I just can't sit back and say nothing.

By hopeful on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 11:02 am:

Hey Flippy, maybe if you read what I wrote you would see that I said I had a hard time believing the pot story...HOWEVER...I then proceeded to relay a story that the article made me think of. All I was saying was WOW..what if. Why dont you relax and let people share, no one appointed you to be the freakin moderator? OK? good. Moving on!

By HealerNoMore on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 12:28 pm:

Hopeful,

I wish I could see you in person. I would shake you out of your pathetic mindset. Don't you see that you are in a mood which was created by dahn? I have mentioned this in a previous post. They will build you up with praise and love bombing and then they will tear you down. It is not pretty. I went through this with alot of other members. You must realize how you are being manipulated. If you continue to talk of death and how worthless you are then you will let dahn win your life.

God gave you this life. He did not mean for you to throw it away. When a group like dahn comes along they steal our lives with all of their lies and manipulations.

Dahn is a Cult!

This is what cults do. I saw a commercial for the Billy Graham Crusade on TV this week. I googled them and read the website. I read that Billy Graham has been preaching the same message for 50 years. It is the message of the Bible. If you compare that with lee or other cults, their message changes at will to suite their goals.

The point I am trying to make is if lee's message was true he would not have to make constant changes to keep the public interested. Every month or so lee has the members doing pushups, power brain dance,noe kyung training,etc. to keep members interested and preoccupied in his fantasy slave world.

Lee's message is false. Dahnhak is a scam!

Hopeful, Please wake up out of you funk. You have a life to live and their are many people (your family and friends) who need you here. Your children need a father. Please don't throw this away. Find another therapist if necessary. Find someone without an agenda.

I will pray for your recovery. Be well!

By HealerNoMore on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 12:31 pm:

I was watching the first season of "24" recently.
CTU Agent Jack Bauer was escaping from terrorists with a hostage and the hostage was wounded and could not continue. Jack's response was priceless.

"You Can and You Will! You don't have a choice!"

If you are feelin down try to apply this message to your situation.

Life is worth living.

By Stilla healer on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 02:35 pm:

Amen to Hopeful as stated by Healernomore.

And ann.351. You do not know me. I am not one bit a racist. As a matter of fact I am of Hispanic origin. I do not believe that saying someone is Mexican automatically one jumps to the conclusion they are drug dealers. Where is YOUR MIND in this divirse universe?

One of the beauties of Dahn membership was the rainbow of beautiful souls we interacted with.

Because someone is Mexican does not mean that they are drug dealers. I only noted the kitchen help who are paid employees who as HealernoMore mentioned have always been super kind, friendly and helpful. For those of us who have been there a number of times I wanted our readers here to know who I was referring to.
That is all pure and simple.

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 03:36 pm:

What is 'vortex energy?'

By Anonymous on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 03:42 pm:

Dear Hopeful, I think you should go see a (real) doctor for those chest pains. Rule out anything physical, and if it's not physical, you must get some emotional relief here.

I don'tlike psychotropics, generally, but if you feel suicidal, you needs some immediate relief. Rather than numbing the pain by joining a suspected deadly cult, you could consider taking something for the panic attacks (if that's what they are) and for the depression -- but only if it won't dull your senses and your spirits (does such a medication even exist?). You need to feel more alive, not more dead, so ask questions and find the right method to lift your spirits, medication or otherwise.

Hey, maybe you can get some take-out food from the Sedona resort center ;-).

Take your life into your own hands! I recommend you consider moving out of that house where you live with that adulterous wife! You told her about your suspicions and what you heard about Dahn, right? She should be saving you from a cult, not pushing you back into it.

Of course she wants you to go back to Dahn. She doesn't want to see the pain her adultery is causing you. She wants to continue with her affair. She wants you out of her sight, out of her mind.

Let her go, I say, and move yourself into a position where you can begin a better life for yourself and your kids -- one that doesn't involve a cult.

You can make it! Develop a plan, get some help, get support from family and (real) friends. The divorce rate is so high that you won't have any trouble finding people who can relate to what you're going through.

I'm wondering what the Dahn masters advised you to do about your marital problems. I remember you said they responded as you would have expected them to, or something like that. What did they say?

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 03:43 pm:

What is 'vortex energy?'

An unsubstantiated wishful-thinking new age notion that the earth has force fields that can heal people. Wasn't Julia Siverls in one of the vortex's when she died? I rest my case.
Suziecue

By hopeful on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 05:23 pm:

Thanks suzie, I agree with what you say, but I dont feel like I should be the one to move out. I did that for a few days and then I said to hell with that I didnt do anything wrong. She is the one who fell in love with someone else, she should move out. I actually verbally kicked her out but she says she wont leave without the kids and wont let that happen. She says you cant take the kids from me. I tell her I would never take the kids from her, I just refuse to allow them to live with some strange guy I dont even know. I said if the shoe were on the other foot and I fell in love with someone else and wasnt sure if I wanted her anymore if I were to leave how would SHE feel if I said "oh and I am taking the kids with me?" Thats insane right? So... I am staying put. This is my home, this is my bed and I am staying in it. This is where my kids live and if she loves him so much well then she can go to him but her sacrifice is taking the kids with her.

By Sunshine on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 06:04 pm:

Way to go Hopeful! I am very happy for you! I agree with with anonymous above! You need to seek medical help even medication if necessary just to get you to a functioning level. Life throws us for loops every now and then, believe me I have had my share of them...I have had the same thoughts as you at times, but I know my family/child need me more than that - it's just too selfish an action - one that I could never take, but nonetheless - I have had the thoughts. I look at it this way - I have a choice to either follow the path of sadness, despair, grief OR I can choose to move on and find happiness. It's your choice really - put her behind you if she is really behaving this way move on - I am sure you will be blessed ten fold. Your children will be happier too! Believe me, my parents split up when I was 7 (adulterous father), and I did not like it at the time, but within months, I saw how much happier my mother was, and in turn I became much happier. I am now blessed with an incredible step-father who has been more that father to me than my biological father could ever have been. Some times our darkest times become the biggest blessing - it's just so darn hard to see it when you are in the middle of it.
God Bless You - you are in my prayers and thank you for sharing your tribulations with us - I do feel for you, and know that we are all here for you.

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 06:49 pm:

Thanks for telling me what 'vortex energy' is, Suziecue.

Sounds pretty silly to me.

So, Anonymous on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 03:51 am wrote:
"When you have a person with High BP already going to the hot dry dessert at altitude with vortex energy, it is not surprising 'that he might get pretty sick. " and:
"CAN YOU SEE HOW STUPID THIS ALL LOOKS?'

Looks pretty silly to me talking about 'vortex energy' as if it's a fact. Does that mean you believe in "vortex energy?"

Let's get sensible here. Dahn talks a load of twaddle about 'vortex energy', 'blockages', 'brain respiration', 'chi energy', etc, etc.
By using their language we all look pretty silly, don't we?

I went to Dahn only for exercise and relaxation. I ignored all the silly talk out of politeness. Just relaxed and enjoyed the classes.I didn't believe in any of it. As soon as I realized they were a cult, I was out of there like a shot. Surely all of you feel the same? Maybe I'm such a died-in-the-wool- atheist, I just don't understand when people follow leaders.

As long as there are people looking for meanings in life, the cults of the world will be with us. Suckers all, there for the picking.

By HealerNoMore on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 07:55 pm:

This may help you understand vortexes a little better.

http://www.lovesedona.com/01.htm

Also check google for vortex there are many other sites available.

By HealerNoMore on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 08:06 pm:

Regarding dyed in the wool atheist. There are many large companies which buy into trainings taught and administered by cults. I was told there were several companies in Korea which used Shim Sung training for their employees. If you work for large corporations in the US you will see similar training programs carried out in the name of improving productivity. There were two articles in the NY Post in the last couple of years about a very large financial institution in NY using a training program in which one executive killed himself due to stress and another had a severe heart attack. These programs are gaining more legitimacy all the time and it is a result of trying to be competetive in the market place.

I believe landmark forum is known for this. It is listed as a very dangerous cult. See Rick Ross.

By hopeful on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 08:25 pm:

Anyone ever see Gung Ho from the 80s by Ron Howard, starring Michael Keaton? Very funny, Japanese car makers using a shim sung type training to increase production. Hysterical! All Dahn and ex dahn members should see, it really takes a load off!

PS I am not suicidal, jeez, I just feel like I am dying...ya know?

By hopeful on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 08:27 pm:

PSS even their set looks like a dahn center. My brother showed me the movie after I showed him the discovery channel documentary

By Anonymous on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 10:23 pm:

Thanks for the link, HealerNoMore. Hmm, twisted Juniper trees as evidence for some mysterious energy vortex? I don't think so.

Hate to spoil the fun, but here's a more rational theory behind the twisted tree trunks: http://www.goldenarrowbonsai.com/spiral%20grain.htm

Hopeful, right on!! I think you should find yourself a lawyer to work out a legal separation, custody arrangements and possession of the house. Does the legal system still tend to favor a woman getting all, even if she is adulterous? That's a good question to ask your attorney.

I agree; she should leave. She's the one screwing around.

It's hard, but try not to put the kids in the middle and fight over who gets them. They need their mother too, even if she has broken your heart (as long as she is not neglectful and the new man is not harmful to children.) Kids pick up on everything around them. If you could agree to separate with minimal disruption of the kids' lives, that would be most loving to them, even if they do end up mostly under her care and in their own home (ouch!). Time to consult an attorney, I would say.

Good to hear that you aren't suicidal. I still worry about those chest pains though.

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 10:46 pm:

Okay, she's not really screwing around. That was an overstatement. Sorry.
SC

By NoNamesPlease on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 01:20 am:

Testing...

By NoNamesPlease on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 01:35 am:

Hey, Everyone! I was a "Mark" and just got back from "Healer School". I was the one weirdo that just didn't get it! I am so glad! When I told my Sobbumnim I wanted OUT and with a complete refund, boy, did she get nasty real quick! What happened to all that LOVE??? I guess I'm screwed for the money but not the lesson.

My first clue should have been the name, Ilchi. Get it? ILL CHI. Bad energy. Megalomaniac. Napolean complex.

What were we THINKING????

P.S. I have heard they can be very dangerous to dissenters. No names or locations, please!

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 02:21 am:

Welcome NoNamesPlease.

You might want to report them to your Attorney General's office. If nothing else, they will start or add to their file on Dahn.

I think you should fight to get your money back. Write them a letter and send a copy to Quantae Kim (do "find" above), insisting that they misled you as to the true purpose of Healer School and that you had no idea that they were going to try to recruit you into their religious organization, if that's what you felt. You can send a copy to your AG.

We here haven't heard of any dangerous actions against dissenters. Do tell what you heard, and if it is from a credible source.

Please describe what happened that made you want your money back, if you feel safe enough to do that here.

SuzieCue

By NoNamesPlease on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 05:53 am:

Dear Suziecue,
I know this much; they have the YEHA 'droids watching these message boards, they are a cult, they are brainwashed, and that they would gladly die for Ill-Chi and his New World Vision. That is enough to make them dangerous.
The Attorney General? He probably plays golf with Ill-Chi every Sunday. I can't afford to be naive any longer! Money talks, BS walks.
The only way recourse I have to handle this problem is to turn it over to the Holy Ghost, which I have already done. Can I get a witness? Woo!Hoo!
NoName

P.S. This thread has gotten so long, can we start another one? How about under the topic
DahnHoax, Part II.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 08:42 am:

I got my money back from them by doing exactly what Suziecue said. They had told me 'NO' at the center when I asked. I wrote to Dahn in Arizona, and told them, basically, that I didn't appreciate being conned into joining a cult. I also wrote to the attorney general in my state and BBB, and told Dahn that I had done so. Et voila! A check in the mail.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 09:33 am:

The attorney general in my state would never play golf with Ill Chi. This A.G.truly cares about unsuspecting consumers and scams. Additionally he is confined to a wheel chair.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 09:48 am:

My AG said to send them more information because they had received a complete elsewhere in the state.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 09:50 am:

I meant received a "complaint," but I guess you all figured that out anyway.

By fresh-ex on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 10:42 am:

Hopeful- i was experiencing intense chest pain as well,while i was in dahn and when i got out too. one thing that really helped me was a homeopathic preparation called Pulsatilla. ask for the strongest form (30x or higher). it really helps to bring you down from the surface and its completely natural. its made from the western anenome flower. i don't suggest things unless i have used them myself. it really helps with stress and anxiety.
i too was getting pretty concerned about my chest pains, but my teachers once again said it was my fault. i thought i tore a muscle doing insane amounts of push-ups, they told me i was "holding something".hhmmm... yes, how about intense guilt, the overwhelming desire to please, hidden competition??
you have changed so much since i first joined this board. its really remarkable. i can't believe after everything that's happened that your wife wants you to go back. obviously she has her own agenda. you know the truth. i will definitely check out that movie! it sounds great. we all need to laugh, or this gets to be way too much, way too big, way too scary.
HealerNoMore- thankyou for the encouragemant. i have absolutely no desire to return to dahn. i'd rather bob for goldfish. i can't imagine what its like for people for who were in it for years. must be devastating. i am keeping myself busy, but i am in soo much pain with this condition i have and it can really get me down... not eating, not sleeping, too much pain. they offered me a job that i thought would free me from this financial and physical prison. it makes me so angry that that they lied to me and used me. and its isolated me- alot of "friends" don't call anymore because they think i'm nuts (a cult???). they just don't want anything to do with me. i worry that it could be used against me- i think about Hopeful in this context- just make sure your wife doesn't decide that you are unstable from this. keeping a journal might be really good idea right now.
i am still exercising at home but its very painful, so the encouragement i get from everyone is really great. thankyou from bottom of my heart!

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 10:43 am:

If the YEHA devotees are reading this board, maybe some will be helped to see what is happening to their lives.

All I personally want to see is removal of Dahb's hidden agendas -- truthfulness and honesty from Dahn. What a concept.

I'd like to see them offer a glossary on their brochures: "True Self"= no self, true to llchi Lee alone; "master"=slave to dahn; "visions"=meeting financial quotas to build more profitable businesses for dahn; "Dr." Lee= Mr. Lee; Ilchi=finger pointing to deception; "New Human"=loss of your humanity, your identity,and individuality; enlightenment=making a lot of money for Lee and never questioning. "Spiritual marriage"=loveless illegal greencard marriages to keep Korean masters in the country.

Removing sexual preconceptions= ...I'll let someone else answer that.

YEHA lurkers, speak out here and correct any errors you see us posting. We are only looking for the truth.

To NoNamesPlease, try taking the advice people are giving you to get your money back; what do you have to lose?

I agree that being willing to die or being told to use your body to defend Lee and Dahn are at least potentially dangerous, even if no one here has reported any physical attacks against dissenters -- yet? We can see the handwriting on the wall in Lee's teachings.

(I prefer one board. It's not hard to scroll up and we don't have to cross-reference this way. Everyone -- save the board to your harddrive often in case it is closed down for some reason. Someone might be brave enough to repost it all on another board, if that happens. Again, thank you to the board owners. You are providing a real public service here.)

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 10:49 am:

Remember to send a copy of letters of complaint to the AG in AZ. Dahn's US homebase is in AZ.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 11:19 am:

Fresh-ex said: "one thing that really helped me was a homeopathic preparation called Pulsatilla. ask for the strongest form (30x or higher)."

Or, save your money and do the Homeopathic Power Dance instead. Here's how you do it: You meditate on the corporate face of the homeopathy god while you hop on your left foot, spinning around to create an energy vortex, at the same time calling out "wigglywoo, wobblywoo, skoobydoo." Then call your doctor and take the medication he recommends. You'll see, the HPD really works!

A 30x solution means that even if anemone flower can alleviate chest pains or anything else, it would violate the laws of physics for any anemone to be in the vial.

I feel for your pain, fresh-ex, but I would NEVER recommend something so clearly disputed by science, like a 30x solution of homeopathic nonsense, to someone experiencing chest pains.

Energy vortexes, homeopathy, dahn -- hmmm.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 11:54 am:

fresh-ex, I'm sure you didn't mean that Hopeful should take the homeopathy remedy instead of going to a doctor for advice; sorry if I came on so strong and sarcastic -- just frustrated with all the manipulation of desperate people in pain that is going on in the world -- whether by dahn or homeopathy sellers or whatever else.

By NoNamesPlease on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 04:01 pm:

Oh you lovely, slightly cynical people!

Now THIS (message board) is where I fit in!!! The 'Homeopathic Power Dance' cracked me up, But wait! It WILL be on Ill-Chi's Bill of Fare next month... as an ancient Korean mysticism which only HE has un-Earthed! HAHAHAHA. You had better hurry up and copyright it anonymous; especially with a name like anonymous! Many people have already stolen your stuff! LOL!

Wanna hear something hilarious? The night before I went to "Sedona" (Mago Gardens is NOT IN Sedona, as we are led to believe) my friend and I just happened to watch a video... Guess what it was??? "The Stepford Wives" with Glenn Close and Nicole Kidman. Pleeeeeze rent it if you haven't seen it yet, dear ones, it will make you wet your pants! And then, as I got off the Shuttle to M.G., who were we greeted by?
None other than THE STEPFORD WIVES! Or could it be the ILL-CHI wives? A girl there named Christine gave us our orientation (AFTER they get the $$$$, always comes first) Christine talks like a automaton... always smiling, it was weird. 7 of 9's, needs deprogramming; How can we help her, Capt. Janeway? My heart goes out to these kids SO MUCH. All kidding aside, maybe that is why we're here. We have got to help these kids! It's really not all about the Benjamins...

The only reason we got 'duped' out of our money was because we are caring, trusting and honest. These are NOT qualities to be ashamed of. Don't you all agree? We are, as I said before, 'Marks' for unscrupulous or misguided people. Which is why I stay off of car lots!

So you think I should go to the BBB and the AG, SuzieCue? Maybe someone should send them a link to THIS MESSAGE BOARD!! It tells the whole story better than I ever could! And yes, I think this M.B. will magically get sucked into a power brain energy vortex soon; please someone save it to H.D.! I don't know how or I would do it myself.

Anybody remember the story of how the FBI finally nabbed Al Capone? He covered his tracks so well, but they finally got him for TAX EVASION. I feel that's how Ill-Chi will be brought down... the 'Cult' thing is perfectly legal here. Can't touch him on that. Throwing your hard-earned money at his Goons is perfectly o.k., in fact, it's the American Way!

The Department of Immigration and Naturalization may be an idea. The Koreans have got their I's dotted and T's crossed, believe me. But I believe some of the staff at the "Commune" were perhaps undocumented, maybe from Central America. But, I don't want to mess up their lives! What shall I do? All recourse I see is a form of Vengence, which is not ME.

Were Laila, for example, to tell her story of that 'marriage proposal' to the D.I.N., it would be her word against the Sobumim's, right?

I just don't see how I have a leg to stand on, legally. I signed a contract. 'Caveat Emptor' and all that. This would a GREAT show for 20/20 or something similar. They could send in an actor, undercover. But see, I'm saying too much! They're reading this, remember? I'm such a natural born pacifist, I'm just naive enough to tell my 'enemy' my exact stategy!

Thank you all so much for being here for me after this traumatic experience. I have no one else to turn to. I'm embarrassed to tell my family what I did. They know I struggle so hard to make ends meet and my Daddy would have me put in a psych ward if he knew I just threw $7000.00 at a (expletive deleted) KOREAN!!! (Anybody remember that little WAR we were in with the Koreans? Happened in the 50's. Think they may still be a little SORE at our involvement in that? Oh, yeah, and North Korea is building nuclear warheads as we speak, we may be financing our own destruction for all we know...)

Please keep writing, I'm checking this M.B. every couple of hours, I'm having to deprogram myself, I need you guys right now. Thank God for you!

NoName

By NoNamesPlease on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 04:29 pm:

Most Important Thing I forgot!

Dear Hopeful, I once had chest-pains so bad I was POSITIVE I was having a heart attack, went to the E.D. and after the nurses took my vital signs they sort of told me to sit down and wait, BUT I WAS DYING OF A HEART ATTACK; I WAS SURE OF IT. Guess what it turned out to be? A very bad panic attack. It mimics exactly the symptoms of a heart attack. Can you believe that ANXIETY can do that to you? Well it can! You know, not everything Dahn taught us was Bunk. For example, the mind does control the body, the body is a totally neutral thing. it only does what the mind(emotions) tells it to do...

I believe you are having panic attacks. Have you talked to a real M.D. about an anti-anxiety agent like Klonopin or Valium? There is one that is non-habituating called Buspar, but it made my chest pains worse. Then get into a support group, quick. A.A. and Al-Anon are FREE. No cult and no hidden agenda.

Love and Light
NoName

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 04:32 pm:

NoName; You will be fine; with such a great sense of humor. Love the Ill Chi; why didnt I think of that?
I did send this link to our state A/G. Got a nice response back from them.

And please, please Ann. 351 do not get your panties in a knot about the Korean comment.
Like all cultures probably the 80/20 rule applies. 80% honest, hardworking people and 20% are like Ill Chi. Were they the ones who invented Brainwashing during the Korean War?

Your dad like my husband would have the big one if they knew how much we really spent. A nice BMW maybe.
Keep laughing. Oh Lord I sound like a Dahn person.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 04:36 pm:

some say aa is a cult

By NoNamesPlease on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 04:45 pm:

Hmmmmm.. I guess anything could be considered a cult. Maybe I should look the word up in a dictionary to be sure. But I do know one thing: IT IS FREE... they pass a basket but to contribute is totally voluntary.

Thank You!
NoName

P.S. My Politically incorrect comment about Koreans was NOT MY VIEWPOINT, BUT HOW MY DADDY WOULD VIEW IT. Sorry if I misstated. I am not prejudiced against Koreans or anybody else.

By NoNamesPlease on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 05:07 pm:

Oh, and "no Contracts to Sign" @ 12 step groups.
And I am NOT getting a kick=back for this... hahaha

PS Happy Father's Day tomorrow for all you Dads!

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 06:13 pm:

"So you think I should go to the BBB and the AG, SuzieCue? Maybe someone should send them a link to THIS MESSAGE BOARD!!"

I will do that (send them the url for this board). The BBB is a good idea too, but what I thought best was to write a strong letter to the Dahn center to demand your money back, and send a copy to the director of the Dahn Institute in Sedona, Quan Tae Kim (do a find search on this board for the address and other information on him; maybe spelled Quantae Kim) and a copy to your AG, and to AZ's AG.

When enough people file complaints, they begin to take notice. At least the state will hesitate to give Ilchi Lee awards from their cities -- we can hope.

The problem with just referring the authorities to an internet board is that this is all just seen as "hearsay," unverifiable rumors, people repeating what they heard other people say, the same people posting under different names, leaving out details (and as they say, whoever "they" is, the devil is in the details), and all the anonymouses here lack accountability and credibility.

The immigration people at their hotline said they only want first-hand complaints, with details, and they said they offer anonymity. I also hope Laila complained. It won't stop unless they are made to stop.

Laila, are you still here? How goes it?

The authorities need to see enough complaints, with evidence, to make it worth their while to pursue it. Caveat emptor -- true, true. But fraud and misrepresentation are illegal.

If you write a letter to Dahn, you don't have to say they are a "cult" and that you were "brainwashed," which are controversial words. You can describe how they had presented the course to you before you purchased it and what you found it to be once you got there, and that you would not have purchased it had you known what it really was. Spell it out. Come to think of it, how did they present it and what did you actually find when you got there?

If someone has evidence of tax-evasion by Dahn, they can contact the IRS anonymously to report it. You'll never find out if they are pursuing it because they won't tell you.

I, for one, figured out that you were talking about your dad's attitude, but you scared me there for a minute.

Suziecue

By fresh-ex on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 06:47 pm:

Listen Anon(449)... i suggested the homeopathic preparation that i feel is specific for anxiety which is what i think i was experiencing at the time, and possibly what Hopeful is experiencing now. i am trained in that field.
i am not personally a believer of energy vortexes (particularly the one in sedona) nor have i ever been, so save your sarcasm, and think about what you type before you hit send and share that hype.
thanks for the apology... is that what that was? i am intelligent person, like the rest of us on this board. i feel your frustration- go back and read about the kind of pain i am in. and calm down. read the entire message. thanks
to others...
wow, where is all this sarcasm coming from?? i don't like this. and comments about "getting your panties in a knot" debases the intent of this discussion board, as does rascism. the dictionary definition of "debase" is- to make lower in value, dignity, etc.
oops now i'm getting sarcastic too. i'm not trying to control the board, just expressing my opinion.

By truthseeker on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 06:57 pm:

Before I sign any document/contract I read the entire document/contract. I also keep a copy of the document/contract. Here is the information directly quoted from the copies that I made.

How to get a refund from YEHA Camp:
1. All requests for refunds due to cancellation must be made in writing and present in person or by certified mail.
2. If the notice is received before the program begins all moneys paid will be refunded less the processing fee of $30.
3. No credit or free fund is available if you check in for the program; if you cancel on the arrival; if you do not show up; or if you leave a program early for any reason.

I noticed as YEHA Camp that that all of the workshops were videotaped. Here is the authorization and release clause on the application form:

I authorize recording, by audio, video, photo camera, or other means, my participation in the YEHA awakening camp including the right to copyright such recordings, and to use and publish them in whole or in part.

By signing the application for YEHA Camp, one also agrees to a waiver of liability:

I hereby waives any and all claims of any nature whatsoever, and agree not to hold Tao fellowship, its contractors and all other entities participating in the program delivery including their employees, agents, representatives, partners, instructors, volunteers or stuff, responsible for any injury suffered by me or loss which I may incur that is causing whole or in part, may arise, occur, or be attributed to but not limited to the following:
1. a breach of any representation, warranty, or promise made by me
2. any missstatements made by me
3. my failure to follow the instructions of my instructors
4. my failure to disclose in writing a physical impairment or condition of mine
5. my inability or failure to satisfactorily complete the certification program
6. the housing facilities and/or accommodations arrange for majoring the program
7. the course offered in standard of instruction
8. interruption or termination of the program due to illness, acts of God, civil unrest and any other unforeseen circumstances
9. any accident injury or loss that occurs inside or outside of the physical premises of Tal Fellowship, its contractors, and all other entities participating in the program delivery

I have read, understand and agree to all the terms and conditions of his application. I represented and warrant up that I have been in good health and fully able to perform daily physical activities and I will faithfully follow always instructions given by my instructors.

How to get a refund from the 21day intensive healer school program:
1. although requests for refunds due to cancellation or withdrawal must be made in writing and present in person or by certified mail.
2. if notice is received within three business days after enrollment all moneys paid will be refunded. After three business days and before the course begins, all moneys paid will be refunded less the processing fee. ($65)
3. in the case of withdrawal during the program of 21 day intensive healer school a pro-rata refund other tuition of the program will be issued.
4. is the payment of four enrollment was made by credit card, the fund all amounts will be less credit card processing fee regardless of the point of refund request.
I have read, understand and agree to all the terms and conditions of his application. As inducement to this enrollment, I represent awards that I have been examined by a licensed physician within the past six months and found to be in good health and fully able to perform all physical exercises in skills which I will to learn and practice during the course and that I will faithfully follow all instructions given by my instructors.

Trademarks, service marks, logos:

The names, marks and or words dahn/dahnhak when used to describe or in conjunction with, any healing concept, method, instruction, and to size, practice, school, or class are trademarks, service marks, and/or copyrights protected under US international trademark and copyright laws. No right is granted by taking 21 day intensive tao healing master program, nor by the issuance of a completion certificate re-certification, to publish, display, advertise, broadcast, or use, in any manner whatsoever, any of these trademarks, service marks, copyrights, logos, photograph or likeness of Dahn/dahnhak. Use of the trademarks, service marks, copyrights, logos photograph or likeness of dahn/dahnhak will be permitted only by written form of contract.

Authorization and release:
Methods and exercises learned in connection with 21 day intensive Tao healing master program or connection with any post certificate course of instruction may only be used, demonstrated, taught, or instructed by a certified Dahn Tao healer while holding a valid certificate annually by attending the reinforcement program offered by the program provider.

Waiver of liability: (same as Yeha)

Ps. I did attend a yeha awakening camp. I am very sensitive to all drugs and I can tell you that at no point during the Camp, I was drugged. Also, I did register for healer school. I requested a refund of my deposit after a member told me about this message board. It took over all week to receive my refund but my persistence paid off. I had read the small print and knew that legally I was entitled to refund.

By NoNamesPlease on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 07:26 pm:

Oh Suziecue!
The last day at Schmieler, er I mean Healer School one of the "Masters" at the camp told us, "Do not look on the internet, there are very negative people posting lies about Dahn-Hak. This will make your energy suffer, block your channels, blahblahblah..."

MADE ME LOOK!!! Thanks, Dude!

Then when I made it clear I was no longer participating in the 'group' this same dude came up to me, took me by both shoulders, and stared me straight in the eyes FOREVER. An intimidation technique??? I dunno, I just stared right back. Actually, I outstared him! I am not scared of him, but he definately had the HOME COURT ADVANTAGE, know what I mean?

Well, I broke down and told my son and my brother. My son wants to bump some heads together and my brother warned me to not rock the boat. Maybe the answer is somewhere in between? After reading about Julie Silverl (sp?) I know I have to do something.

What about the 'practicing Medicine without a license' angle? My Jimsobnonim or whatever they're called told me, at consultation, "I can heal you, no problem, you can get off your medicines... That'll be $3000., please."

Not in so many words. No WONDER they want to get us alone! No witnesses.

I'm waffling around now between the "how could I have been so STOOOOPID" and the "how can I help others not to make the same mistake?" phases.

Your posts have helped me reality check tremendously. Thank you all! The Rick Ross site is great, too. I don't care about his credentials or lack thereof. I DO CARE about our precious right to freedom of speech, which his site and this one facilitate.

BAM BOP SAMMY DAH!
Noname

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 08:16 pm:

Yes, fresh-ex, it was an apology for the sarcasm directed at you. Your contributions here are so so good and your pain is awful. but I cannot apologize for the pointing out that homeopathy is a scam and a joke. I don't want to turn this into a homeopathy board, so I'll end it here.

By Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 09:25 pm:

Thanks for posting all that here, Truthseeker. That was a lot fo typing! I just don't understand then why so many people think their money is lost. Does this mean that NoName just has to request a prorated refund in person or by certified mail?

Maybe the ripped-off feeling that so people get hits them after they finish a training, when they felt they had been led into a cultish organization.

Just trying to figure this out.
Suziecue

By Mouse on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 11:09 pm:

[Ignore this part if you don't care about homeopathy.]
I just had to add a little squeek about it. In my (limited) experience, homeopathic preparations are better used for emotional complaints than for strictly physical ones. (No, I haven't heard an explanation for if/why they work that incorporates known laws of physics. But if I can accept that Prozac works for some people, I can accept that homeopathic preparations work for some people.) Pulsatilla 30x for anxiety? Possible. For unexplained chest pains? Hell no, get to the ER and get your heart checked! But as someone else mentioned, anxiety attacks can cause chest tightness. So I hope there are no hard feelings just because two different people saw the same symptom and suggested treatments according to their own experience. ...But that's just my doctor-wannabe-ness in action, so back to Dahn.

[OK, here's the part that's relevant to everyone else.]
Regarding rip-offs, Suzie, my guess (or maybe my neurosis) is that we think we SHOULD have known what we were getting into. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, we're all reminiscing on this board about all the signs of cult-like activity that we ignored or explained away at the time. It's hard to say that you were misled when it was right in front of you all the time. :/ I mean, the court of public opinion would be on our side, and hopefully the courts of our own hearts, but the court of law.... maybe, maybe not?

I wouldn't cry if they got dinged for practicing without a license, but I don't see how it can happen--what they do isn't regulated by licensure. Then again, claiming that you can eliminate a disease that no accepted paradigm of medicine can heal is simply fraud.

By Mouse on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 11:56 pm:

Hmm, I guess I made an assumption there. In the last sentence of my last post, I was referring to what NoNamesPlease said about the claim that they could "get you off your medicines", which suggested a chronic or long-term illness to me. (You don't have to tell us, of course, NNP.) Maybe I'm off, but I'm sticking to my story that claiming to cure incurable diseases can be fraudulent.

I do hope my late-night attempts at response/discussion aren't annoying everybody. ;/ Somehow I don't think that what I mean is coming out right. Oh well. (Sleep makes it all better...)

By hopeful on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 04:54 am:

I appreciate the concern but has anyone stopped to think that perhaps the pain in my chest is because Iam heartbroken? It will pass, yes seeing a doctor wouldnt hurt but everything I have heard and read suggests this may be normal at this stage of grief.

By hopeful on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 05:02 am:

HEY NONAME!!!!!!

I also feel that Christine is a beautiful young girl and I dont feel it appropriate that you bring her name up here, especially when you dont even feel comfortable bringing your own name up I understand your excitement and the need to start exposing and all that but how about a little respect. Next time try "sally." Look inside yourself and try to see, if you dont want to even to reveal your own name, its not fair for you to start revealing others especially those who may be fellow people who have been disillusioned.

By hopeful on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 05:34 am:

HEY NONAME!!

I feel Chrisitne is a beautiful young girl and I dont feel you have the right to reveal her real name here. I understand your excitement and your need to "expose" but if you are uncomfortable revealing your OWN name what gives you the right to start revealing others particularly those who may be beauitful and perhaps disillusioned. There is no need to start doing that here. It is unfair and disrespectful.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 05:35 am:

sorry for the double post, it didnt look like it went thru the first time.

By NoNamesPlease on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 06:15 am:

Good Morning, Evrby,

Happy Father's Day, Hopeful and all Dad's out there. About using Christine's name... I don't want to be hurtful or harmful, but then again, I do want to be truthful. If I had said Sally that would have been a lie. Maybe she's reading this, since she is one of the few that can understand English. Maybe she doesn't realize she talks like a robot. Maybe just maybe nothing happens in God's world by accident. That includes Ill-Chi and Dahn-Hack!

Remember Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mussolini, Idi Amin, Hussein, Atilla the Hun, Alexander the Great, the Inquisition, The Genocide of the Indiginous people of the Americas, the Mass Massacres of Bosnia, Jonestown, Camp Davidian, 9-11-2001, etc...?

From what I gather, how do we know we are not dealing with a megalomaniac of that Magnitude? Just because he comes in the name of PEACE AND A NEW WORLD VISION? Pullleeeze! That's what all of the above said. No, I'm not using my name, not here! If I write letters to A.G. and BBB then I will use my name. Ill-Chi has his own people brainwashed into working like slaves for 20-30K/ year? What more is he capable of? Read over this message board one more time. I really like the story about how they made such a big deal about him shaking hands and him scanning the audience for a pretty girl, i.e. propective groupie. Power corrupts, and great power corrupts greatly.

Let's be supportive of one another. Remember we're all in pain and disappointment. If I make a mistake you don't have to jump my ass. Your heart has been broken? I am sorry. So has mine, and everyone else's. Not to minimize your pain, but we've all been there, Dude!

I really, really still believe my Sobumnim loves me. How do you think I'm feeling now? Betrayed, used, and foolish, for starters.

By NoNamesPlease on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 06:31 am:

YOGA

I forgot to mention. The term YOGA may be being used because there are no certifications, no regulations, no state licensing boards etc...
e.g., anyone over the age of 18 (at least in my State) can open a "Yoga Studio" and not even have to know what a lotus position is. There is no one to answer to. Total nonregulation.

What do you all think?

BamGapSammyDah!

By hopeful on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 06:43 am:

Dont assume you know anything of my pain, if you scroll up maybe you'll know the "real" reason for my pain. If you had said "sally" that isnt being a liar if you use quotes we would have gotten it, and if she is reading it I am sure she would've gotten it.
YOUR WORDS--"Your heart has been broken? I am sorry. So has mine, and everyone else's. Not to minimize your pain, but we've all been there, Dude!"
First off, don't call me dude ever. Secondly, just because you say "not to minimize your pain" doesnt mean you arent minimizing it. You are! You show no respect. You have no idea what I am going through and don't even attempt to act like you do. Go talk to your "daddy" little boy and learn some respect, for others, and other cultures (even though you "say" you are talking from your "daddy's" perspective w/ regards to korean war and all that nonsense). You are really walking a fine line here within just a few posts.

By Stillahealer on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 06:46 am:

Not to worry Hopeful. She may be going by a different name by now; Ill Chi issues new names as they move up the Enlightenment ladder. Does anyone remember when Bup Sum (sp) was Master Han? Some have Korean names and others give themselves American names like Jenny,Kelly, Rosie, Jodi, Gloria etc. And the Americans sometimes take on Korean names. I am not aware of many male Korean masters taking on names like John, Mark, Joe or Michael.
All to keep everyone off balance; non attachment to any shred of self.
IMO those with bad reputations get a fresh start at new centers with new names.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 07:03 am:

send this link to 20/20@abc.com

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 07:05 am:

2020@abc.com
Correction

By NoNamesPlease on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 07:41 am:

Dear "Hopeful"
You don't sound hopeful at all! You're just plain angry. I am not a little boy, either. I am a woman. You are angry at your wife and taking it out on me, an anonymous stranger. It's real easy to do on a message board.
That's called displacement.
Can we PLEASE stick to the topic at hand? Dahn YOGA.
It's not your place to tell me I'm crossing the line or monitor my choice of words, so don't. If you don't want me to call you 'Dude', then I won't, no problem. There's no need for you to go postal. Are you planning to 'beat me up'? You have to find me first! I have the Constitutional Right of Freedom of Speech. This is a right that Ill-Chi would like to take away from me if I were to be sucked into his cult. So if you don't like me, please don't address me again. I won't address you again, either. I have as much right to be here as you do.

"Divide and Conquer..." Ill-Chi would approve.

By hopeful on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 08:20 am:

whatever. I am so sick of this whole thing. No I am not planning on beating you up, and thanks for the psychology lesson. I hope you guys can move on, because now I am just feeling sorry for all of you.
Thanks suzie, fresh ex, still, no more and laila and petrice you were very helpful now its time for me to move past this site, its too addicting.
Sorry noname, you are just rubbing me the wrong way.
Peace

By Stillahealer on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 08:34 am:

Bye Hopeful.

Take care of yourself and your boys. Happy Fathers Day. What a gift and what a responsability!!

Try not to use our discussen here which you may not agree with as a reason to go back to Dahn. This really is the Real World as awful and sometimes painful as it seems. WE say things that come across as hurtful or worse ignorant. Probably feels like salt to your wounded heart; that along with the loss of the Dahn dream.

Love Always

By fresh-ex on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 09:07 am:

Hopeful- after the crap i was served up by miss noname i felt like the leaving this board as well. the back-handed apology i got did nothing to make me feel better. and yes, i think you are broken-hearted, like i was/still am, and i was just trying to help.i know you understand this. obviously noname has a different agenda. i am not going to address her/it whatever directly, and i may just have to move on as well if she doesn't **** off. its really too bad. this discussion board WAS a place of peace and understanding....
and by the way, its noname that jumps on people's asses- like mine for example.
i hope you keep reading, hopeful. take care, and know that we care.

By Mouse on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 09:24 am:

...

By Dahntbefoolednomore on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 09:49 am:

Oh dear! Oh Dear! What a bunch of kids. I have been reading back over the posts and I can't find what's so offensive about No-Name's posts. I find her refreshingly funny.

I find that a lot of the time I post people don't quite get what I'm trying to say. The same when I read reactions to other people's posts. It's the nature of this medium.

Hopeful and Fresh-Ex are clearly on the edge. And Hopeful, with respect, we all have shown you a lot of patience and love and friendship. A lot of the discussion has been about your personal issues. I hope you haven't put off No Names. Please keep posting, No Names.

Let's get back on topic and help each other resolve our Dahn issues and support each other.

Love

By Stillahealer on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 10:11 am:

Fresh ex see ann. 1:46. I do not believe noname was the author.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 10:20 am:

Hopeful, best of luck to you.

I think this board has become like a microcosm of a larger society in some ways. Communication is the key, but communication is not a thing, it's a process. And you contributed positively to it. I think you made a great point about not using even first names, not of private individuals. Usually first names aren't a big deal because they are so common, but because Dahn is a relatively closed community, it's just not going to serve any good purpose other than to hurt someone's feelings and maybe even result in this board getting shut down -- regardless of any good intention involved.

Newsgroups and boards always seem to get contentious at some point.
Human communication never seems linear, except maybe using Parlimentary Procedure (booorring!). I do believe that the truth is what this board aims to discover -- the truth about Dahn and Ilchi Lee. But because people are people and not machines, we have to go back and forth to state and misstate and clarify and apologize and forgive and try again -- a lot like communication in a marriage. I don't think we met the goal here yet, to know and share the truth about Dahn. There are too many unanswered questions.

This thing is on the internet as an information source for people researching Dahn. Everyone should know that emotions and opinions abound on discussion boards, but most people searching for information are looking for the facts and have to sift through all the other stuff.

I agree with Hopeful that no identifying information should be used here to critcize private individuals. At the same time, I can relate to NoName's sense of urgency to warn people about Dahn and maybe even to alert certain individual to the signs they are showing of zombi-like behavior, but it will backfire if we start listing people's names here. It didn't bother me to read it because I didn't know the person and it was just a first name. But because Dahn involves a closed community, using a first name might be too close to using a full name.

But Ilchi Lee is a public figure, and at least in the US, we enjoy the legal right to express our opinions about and share what we truly believe to be the facts about him.

Hopeful, I wish you the best, truly. Sorry to see you leave on such an angry note, and I hope you change your mind when you see that we are all just strangers here trying to help other people -- blundering and rude at times, but informative and loving also. I think it served you awesomely.

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 11:43 am:

No, fresh-ex, Noname was not the author who so offended you with sarcasm. It was me. I'll try a third time now to apologize -- mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa -- really! Now you see for yourself how frustration, pain, and anger can lead to misunderstandings and attacks on this board -- and like Suziecue says, we can apologize and forgive and moveon to the reason why we came here in the first place. People are coming here to see if they should worry about joining dahnhak. Should they? Why should they?

anon 6-18 1:46

By BoPeep on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 12:04 pm:

Hi!
I've read what's been written so far about this Dahn group, and it does sound like a cult to me. The reason I'm here is that I heard through a somewhat reliable source that there has actually been someone incarcerated because they crossed "Ill-Chi" (cute, noname) My source remembered the first name "James" but not the last name.
How would I ever be able to check that out if Dahn Inc. goes by 103 different names?

Does anyone have a website where it gives in more details the death of the woman at the retreat center?

I am personally not so worried about being politically correct and using some girl's first name as I am that we may be making the same mistake as in 9-11.

Thanks for all the good information! Keep it up.

BoPeep

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 01:35 pm:

BoPeep, do you have anymore clues on the rumored incarceration? Was it in the US? People can search public records on arrests and convictions, with a little more information, like the state. What were the charges? Maybe the person really did do something illegal? There is too little here to go on. What else did your source say?

I don't quite see how you could check it out with "Dahn, Inc" anyway. I can't picture them giving out any details.

Dahn has 103 names because they call their individual Dahn Centers by various names, and they sometimes change business names, use tradenames, different website names, and they start and end some business entities. (My favorite is their former Elmhurst, Inc. That one started as "banking and finance," and was changed to "exercise class/meditation.")

But they do seem to have some big core companies/organizations.

Tao Fellowship is their Sedona religious non-profit, a 501(c)(3), (which owns the tradenames "Ilchi Sedona Meditation Center" and "Sedona Mago Garden") and the Dahn Institute is an educational non-profit in Sedona. I don't know how their accountant can keep track of all of this, with people signing up for courses at their for-profit Dahn Centers and taking the courses at their non-profit organizations.

Dahn World, Inc. (aka Dahnhak SeonWon), is a "trading" company headquartered in Korea, and BR Consultants, Inc is a NJ firm registered in AZ, main shareholder Seung Heun Lee. Is that what a paid religious guru is called in these modern times, a "consultant?"

Dahn World apparently owns main shares to Bell Rock Development, which seems to own a lot of Dahn Centers, so I guess that means that Dahn World, Inc. basically owns those Dahn Centers.

I'm getting a strange tangled web feeling right now.

(NoName, what did you mean when you said Mago Garden supposedly wasn't in Sedona? Just curious.)

Suziecue

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 01:44 pm:

On a lighter note, did anyone notice that the background to this web page is one of those 3-D things? You know, where you put your nose on it, stare at it, and then slowly move back, and the background recedes? Or am I just losing my mind staring at this page too long? (insert twilight zone theme song here). Now that you all know that I've been sticking my nose to the screen, I'll quietly step back and go take my medication ;-)
SC

By Stillahealer on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 03:20 pm:

Back to the facts!!!

I found some of my training notes. This is in response to a question on this board a while back about number of centers and growth expectations.
2004 178
2005 360
2006 1,200
2007 3,600
2008 10,800
2009 32,400
2010 36,000

I believe the 36,000 is representative of MacDonalds as well.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 05:05 pm:

Is anyone on this board an ex-master of Dahn?
Suziecue

By Stillahealer on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 05:31 pm:

I have forwarded this link to a former master.

By Anonymous on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 05:38 pm:

I found two things about the death of Julia Siverls. One is http://www.cultnews.com/archives/week_2003_07_27.html
and the other is a discuss